emergency generators

[Tundra Monkey]

Guess I've learned to deal with people a little different than you.

You make me miss Bud's early posts.....he grew up so there's still hope for ya.

tm

[Vindalbakken]

Originally Posted by Tundra Monkey

You're right Vin....I should have said disconnect and hold it. I forgot that I was speaking with a confrontational poster with a rep for pounding away at the semantics of something that could have been cleared up so easily.

tm

Oh, come on TM, here is your challenge:

Here's a neat test for you daring types. Stick your finger on the white wire of a receptacle and another one on the steel box it's in. Have your Wife fire up her hair dryer at another plug on the same circuit.....please report back any findings

I actually debated having some of my students set it up when I read it, but elkhunter did.

[Tundra Monkey]

I agree Vind....I tried to clarify it later with the "holding a neutral" comment....I should have said "after taking the neutral off of the receptacle, hold it in your hand" etc. I see where the original post was unclear and tried to explain it better.....just not bright enough I guess.

tm

[elkhunter11]

Guess I've learned to deal with people a little different than you.

I am very willing to provide any answers that I can,but I answer questions as asked.I take a person at their word,and I assume the person is able to word a question or challenge so that it is plain for everyone to understand what they mean to say.

You make me miss Bud's early posts.

Did he have ESP,so that he could understand what you meant,even though what you meant,and what you posted were entirely different?

..he grew up so there's still hope for ya.

Perhaps there is even hope that you can learn to choose words that convey what you actually mean.Perhaps a little summer school would help.

Oh, come on TM, here is your challenge:

Obviously,I am not the only person that read the words that you actually posted,and assumed that your words conveyed what you actually meant to say.

I actually debated having some of my students set it up when I read it, but elkhunter did.

I don't see the point of speculating about something that can easily be proven,or disproven.

[Tundra Monkey]

Originally Posted by Tundra Monkey

I forgot that I was speaking with a confrontational poster with a rep for pounding away at the semantics of something that could have been cleared up so easily. tm

YOU'RE CORRECT......I should have been more clear in the original post. I apologize that my attempt to clear it up was not as clear as it should have been.

Are we done now?

tm

[elkhunter11]

I apologize that my attempt to clear it up was not as clear as it should have been.

Up until your last couple of posts,your so called attempt to clear it up,was more like a series of sarcastic insults than an attempt to explain what you really meant to say in your original post.Had you posted the actual explanation initially,and skipped the sarcasm,this thread would have contained far fewer posts.

Are we done now?

As far as I am concerned,we are done now.

[Tundra Monkey]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

Up until your last couple of posts,your so called attempt to clear it up,was more like a series of sarcastic insults than an attempt to explain what you really meant to say in your original post.Had you posted the actual explanation initially,and skipped the sarcasm,this thread would have contained far fewer posts.

And your polite, concise way of questioning was done with the good intentions of a Tiger in Las Vegas.

tm

[Vindalbakken]

Simple fact is tm - you were wrong. Accept it and move on. No one would have needed to bother with anything, politely or not, if you had not so vehemently and rancourously tried to defend something that was just plain wrong.

[Tundra Monkey]

Originally Posted by Vindalbakken

Simple fact is tm - you were wrong. Accept it and move on. No one would have needed to bother with anything, politely or not, if you had not so vehemently and rancourously tried to defend something that was just plain wrong.

Funny thing is I count 6 "you're rights", "I agree", and "I apologize" that I've posted since you figured out why we were on a different page. Not sure how else to do it...a couple more maybe

tm

[Vindalbakken]

Sorry that I just didn't buy the "I simply worded it wrong" scenario couched with an air of arrogance as a sincere admission of "I was wrong." Twice it was pointed out that the neutral would need to be "open" and the person be in series by elkhunter and another poster and you continued with the smart ***** comments before finally trying "Oops, I should have explained myself better." And then you are referring to elkhunter as childish?

Anyway, I believe it has been determined that the properly connected neutral will pose no threat to a lineman.

[Tundra Monkey]

Sorry my apologies were not up to your standards and did not seem sincere enough for you.

tm

[BimmerBob]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

Only if the neutral is not properly grounded,and you provide the ground.A broken neutral is a dangerous as the hot lead,but with a properly grounded neutral,the current takes the path of least resistance which is through the neutral to the ground.



After almost 30 years in the industry working on voltage from 24 volts to 13,800volts,I believe that I know a fair bit about electricity.If I didn't,I wouldn't be alive to type this post.

I don't want to in any way detract from your 30 years in industry however electricity takes ALL paths to ground on a grounded circuit. The path of least resistance will have the most current but it is only one path of a many path parallel circuit.

After 35 years working for an electrical utility (and investigating contact accidents) I can tell you from experience that most workers are very lucky to be alive after doing some of the things they have "always done".

Your electrical license is at risk if you are discovered doing the things others have suggested on this thread. The ONLY approved way to connect a generator to your home if you are on the grid is through an approved transfer switch.

[elkhunter11]

I don't want to in any way detract from your 30 years in industry however electricity takes ALL paths to ground on a grounded circuit. The path of least resistance will have the most current but it is only one path of a many path parallel circuit.

Of course you are correct,but the current flowing through each path is dependent on the resistance of that path.The fact is that proper grounds,provide so much less resistance than the human body, that during normal operation, they carry enough of the ground fault current to protect us from electrocution.I have been in several high voltage substations where ground fault currents more than large enough to kill a human were present,yet the ground fault systems kept them from harming personnel.In fact,when such ground faults occur,it is my job,and the job of my co-workers to locate and eliminate them.

[Dick284]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

Of course you are correct,but the current flowing through each path is dependent on the resistance of that path.The fact is that proper grounds,provide so much less resistance than the human body, that during normal operation, they carry enough of the ground fault current to protect us from electrocution.I have been in several high voltage substations where ground fault currents more than large enough to kill a human were present,yet the ground fault systems kept them from harming personnel.In fact,when such ground faults occur,it is my job,and the job of my co-workers to locate and eliminate them.

What about actually following the CEC???

No Transfer Switch???!!!
Back Feeding a Panel???!!!


And all this from a tradesperson....
Wadaya know....

[elkhunter11]

And all this from a tradesperson....
Wadaya know....

So if the power went out in -35 degree weather,would you stand by and wait until your house froze up,and ruined your entire plumbing system?Or would you come up with an alternate plan with the equipment at hand,providing that you could test the system to make sure that you weren't backfeeding onto the grid and endangering anyone?And would you wait until it actually began to freeze,or would you conduct a trial run before things became critical?

In the past we never had issues with power outages,but lately there have been a few incidents.Once this cold weather is over,I certainly am going to look into installing a transfer switch,but for now,I will not let my house freeze up.

[Dick284]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

So if the power went out in -35 degree weather,would you stand by and wait until your house froze up,and ruined your entire plumbing system?Or would you come up with an alternate plan with the equipment at hand,providing that you could test the system to make sure that you weren't backfeeding onto the grid and endangering anyone?And would you wait until it actually began to freeze,or would you conduct a trial run before things became critical?

I would'nt back feed my panel, if that's what you mean.

There are way safer alternatives than you explained.

A couple 1500Watt space heaters is first on my list.

Learning how to freeze proof your house is another, and simply moving to your vehicle to keep yourself warm.

To post what you did, and have a trade ticket, makes me really wonder what you were thinking bringing this on these pages.

All sorts of really wrong and dangerous things could happen if someone without the knowledge your 30 yrs have brought you tried to impliment your words and made one wrong step.

If it is'nt totally fool proof, don't be the fool posting it.


Think about it.

[catnthehat]

Well, this has been interesting!
I have absolutely NO idea what went on here, but I DO know my next door neighbour is an electrician, and I have two gas fireplaces in my house, as well as a gas furnace.
If I flip the switch and the lights don't go on, I'm headin' next door to find out why - poking around in my electrical box with the main tool of my trade ( claw hammer) would not be a good thing , I'd wager!!
Cat

[elkhunter11]

All sorts of really wrong and dangerous things could happen if someone without the knowledge your 30 yrs have brought you tried to impliment your words and made one wrong step.

Of course you are correct,a mistake could cause serious issues,and thinking about it further,I should not have posted this thread at all.There is simply too much risk of something going wrong,especially for someone that isn't accustomed to working with electricity.However,judging by some of the responses,it is quite evident that there are many people that have hooked up generators,by backfeeding through the panel,and it is scary to think that many of them likely do not have test equipment that lets them test the system to ensure that they are not backfeeding into the grid.As such,I do encourage anyone that desires to use a backup generator to look into installing a transfer switch,and doing it properly,to ensure that they cause no hazard to themselves or others.