After Thoughts of the Extended Bird Season

[MK2750]

Now that it's in the books, what are the opinions of the extended season?

Personally, I am for shortening the season back to December 15th.

Originally, I was concerned about conflict with the trappers and dogs getting injured. I read some of the trapping forum and although I didn't see anyone loosing a dog, I did read what seemed to be a lot of trapping gear and animals being stolen. Maybe this is the norm as I don't frequent the trapping forum or maybe there is too many people out there where they shouldn't be?

I am always concerned about stress on deer during the winter months. Dean Partridge (one of the wild TV stand outs as a very informed White Tail hunter) voiced his concerns about even collecting sheds in the winter. This year is obviously an exception to the rule, but could a little more shooting and dogs in the bush push already stressed animals out of their yards and cause higher mortality rates?

I am a huge believer in harvesting the young of the year, especially when it comes to game birds. Mature birds and animals with the experience to survive the winter are much more valuable to breeding stocks than an inexperienced youngster. Survival rates among the young is very low with most species and I don't believe hunter harvest adds much stress to the overall population. Is shooting mature birds that have learned to avoid predators and forage for themselves simply destroying next year's breeding stock?

Then there is the behaviour of grouse during the winter months and the sport itself. With little ground cover, foliage or berries to feed on, winter grouse like to spend time in the trees nibbling or in spruce forests where the snow is light. Not only is their natural camouflage compromised, their need to feed off the ground makes them even more vulnerable. Is it really sporting to target birds at their most vulnerable time when they are burning so many calories to simply stay warm that they need to feed most hours of the day?

There is also the absence of the migratory birds and hibernating critters in the forest. Even those that don't truly hibernate become inactive and spend much of their time deep in burrows away from predators. Snowshoe Hares thrive during winter and are truly adapted to avoid predators in snow. A nice fat Ruffie is no doubt number one on the list for foxes and coyotes alike with so few choices on the menu. Pushing grouse out of their few safe havens during winter may have a much larger effect on populations than the actual harvest?

Anyway, I enjoyed getting the dogs out for a run after deer season but decided the harvesting of any grouse was not needed to enjoy the day. IMO a couple of weeks extension beyond deer season would be more that adequate and leave the critters to battle the winter months without any added stress.

How do you all see it?

[Bushrat]

I went out a couple times. Pretty much all the grouse I saw were sitting on the road at bare patches of gravel picking grit for their crops or sitting in the tops of trees eating buds or perched in the evergreens all fluffed up, sitting ducks, very tame. They have a hard enough time making a living this time of year I left them alone. I didn't see anyone else out hunting them either.

[MK2750]

This was my experience as well. Any the dogs flushed just landed in the nearest tree like they were trying to conserve energy.

Just another case of government answering questions no one ever asked IMO. With a September 1st start of the season there is plenty of time to hunt grouse while they have plenty of cover. They also taste a lot better in the early season.

[Jadham]

I only went out once in the extended time frame, and don't have much of an opinion. Yeah it's nice to get out but I get out anyways for other things at that time of year.

I am unsure what it does for the bird population.

[martinnordegg]

I was very disappointed to see the extended season. In our area the grouse population never seems to gain. The cycle goes from almost zero grouse to seeing just a few in the "high" cycle.

Other than additional hunter opportunity I would like to have an explanation of the rationale to this extended season. It will be one question I will ask at the annual "input" meeting.

The extended season seemed to be broad brushed encompassing quite a few WMU's. If some research had been done in this area I would have a hard time believing a Biologist would have recommended it here.

I haven't talked to anybody in the surrounding WMU's that see a population of grouse that would justify the extended season opportunity.

[Clarksen]

Does anyone know the rationale behind reducing the daily limit and then extending the season? In my part of the world grouse, rabbit's, moose, elk, and mule deer should all be classed as endangered species. White tails are on the same track with the ridiculous doe and fawn season year after year.

The extended season just makes a bad situation worse.

[HowSwedeItIs]

I only went out once in early January and didn't see a single one, felt a little guilty for a lot of reasons already mentioned, there must have been a population explosion somewhere else in the area to justify the longer season but around here there didn't seem to be more than any other year

[Prewar]

I think it should be carried out for 3 years and if it proves negatively close it earlier. I doubt it will. Lets not forget this is an El Nino winter. Under your typical Nov, Dec, Jan winter conditions how many diehard or novice uplanders are gonna be out there? -20 and 2ft of snow sound like fun? Nope....not me. And Ok there's gonna be those utilizing the classical road hunt technique which will harvest the "near road" grouse. But really what fraction of a single percentage does that represent of the grouse population? Saskatchewan has had theirs open till Dec31 for years now. Has the SK grouse population gone the way of Alberta's sage grouse ?? Nope...3 years...

[slickwilly]

I'm for it.
The Christmas-New Years time is a time that lots of people have off, and it is a great opportunity for people to get out.

The logic was basically that: it is a convenient time to get people out, and the number of grouse killed by hunters is a drop in the bucket compared to all the other sources of mortality out there.

[Gerv]

I went out six or seven times during the extended season. I found it to be a quite enjoyable experience. A few of the birds were taken on the road but most were up in willow trees eating buds 50/75 yards off the road. Averaged about 2-3 ruffies per trip. It was a good way to wind down the hunting season and i look forward to doing it again next year. They did have a bit stronger flavour late in the season though.

[Unregistered user]

I'm done hunting by the end of November so I'd never take advantage of it, but I guess the extra bird days would be good for those who had no time earlier.

[trigger7mm]

Personally, I would like to see the extended season cancelled. Let the birds have as much of an advantage as possible going into the winter. Go after coyotes, and help the birds even more.

[Speckle55]

Nice too have the extended season

saw a lot of grouse up here 267

got 143 with partners

37 were got in extended season

still seeing lots up here and hearing reports/pic's of more

most were shot with .22LR

not many were on roads (lease)

fun fun fun after Ungulate season

Got to Love Alberta!!!

David

[^v^Tinda wolf^v^]

I got 25 grouse this year on a 2 week camp out in 318
All were fat and healthy

[Okotokian]

I never got out as I've had a crazy couple months, but I'm all for extended seasons as long as it doesn't too adversely affect game populations. If you aren't, I guess stay home. Of course this is all predicated upon game numbers not being drawn down too much.

[MK2750]

Originally Posted by Okotokian

I never got out as I've had a crazy couple months, but I'm all for extended seasons as long as it doesn't too adversely affect game populations. If you aren't, I guess stay home. Of course this is all predicated upon game numbers not being drawn down too much.

Using this logic, why have seasons at all. Obviously with the reduction of bag limits someone must have figured there was too many being taken. To increase the season to include the winter months when birds and animals are struggling to survive seems counter to other legislative changes.

Why do we close the deer season during the winter months or limit them just to November in most areas? If the number of tags was the same what difference would it make?

Negative effects on the ecosystem takes place whenever people (or any predator) enters the environment. Deer, moose and elk behaviour would most certainly change as they would have no way of knowing one was simply targeting grouse. This of course is assuming the grouse are plentiful enough to warrant higher harvest rates which in most areas they are not.

Let's take for example the annual migration of elk from higher or more forested areas into the low lands and farm country to winter. Would these animals stay in the harsher environment to avoid the potential treat of hunters in the bush? I would say with out question.

If White-tails are stressed to a point where they run for any distance in fidget temperatures there is a real risk of hypothermia as they are unable to recover to normal temperatures when over heated. Many are border line survivors that need every calorie just to make it. Forcing them out of a feeding area or even creating enough of a disturbance that they avoid moving to feed may be fatal. They often need to feed constantly just to make up for the calories they are burning to keep warm as winter forage has less nutrition.

"If you aren't into it just stay home." is a typical response here. I'm not into poaching or destroying stream beds with an ATV but I am deserved of an opinion on the practise if it negatively impacts the ecosystem.

I believe the extended season was a bit of an experiment by someone that needed something to do and just because it was made legal does not mean it is a good idea. I have never heard a hunter express an interest in extending the seasons into the winter months so I am unclear where the notion even came from. Perhaps in the southern part of the province there is more interest.

Has anyone here ever suggested or discussed extending the bird season into winter? To me it is like doubling the limit on trout just to see what happens. I guessing there would be a lot less trout. I'm no expert but pretty good at math.

[Slash8]

I was all pumped up to go out in December but never did. The simple reason being was I clocked 18 of those tasty morsels this year between September and November. I figured that was enough for myself. Even though we ate them all it gives me something to look forward to next season.

Abstinence makes the taste buds leak longer.....

[hippietrekker]

This past season was my first year hunting so I do not have previous years to compare - I did appreciated the longer season though. I saw plenty of grouse and never any other hunters. I did not harvest many birds either as I'm still learning. I would like to see an extended season for a least a couple of years and then perhaps reevaluated.

[martinnordegg]

Originally Posted by MK2750

Using this logic, why have seasons at all. Obviously with the reduction of bag limits someone must have figured there was too many being taken. To increase the season to include the winter months when birds and animals are struggling to survive seems counter to other legislative changes.

Why do we close the deer season during the winter months or limit them just to November in most areas? If the number of tags was the same what difference would it make?

Negative effects on the ecosystem takes place whenever people (or any predator) enters the environment. Deer, moose and elk behaviour would most certainly change as they would have no way of knowing one was simply targeting grouse. This of course is assuming the grouse are plentiful enough to warrant higher harvest rates which in most areas they are not.

Let's take for example the annual migration of elk from higher or more forested areas into the low lands and farm country to winter. Would these animals stay in the harsher environment to avoid the potential treat of hunters in the bush? I would say with out question.

If White-tails are stressed to a point where they run for any distance in fidget temperatures there is a real risk of hypothermia as they are unable to recover to normal temperatures when over heated. Many are border line survivors that need every calorie just to make it. Forcing them out of a feeding area or even creating enough of a disturbance that they avoid moving to feed may be fatal. They often need to feed constantly just to make up for the calories they are burning to keep warm as winter forage has less nutrition.

"If you aren't into it just stay home." is a typical response here. I'm not into poaching or destroying stream beds with an ATV but I am deserved of an opinion on the practise if it negatively impacts the ecosystem.

I believe the extended season was a bit of an experiment by someone that needed something to do and just because it was made legal does not mean it is a good idea. I have never heard a hunter express an interest in extending the seasons into the winter months so I am unclear where the notion even came from. Perhaps in the southern part of the province there is more interest.

Has anyone here ever suggested or discussed extending the bird season into winter? To me it is like doubling the limit on trout just to see what happens. I guessing there would be a lot less trout. I'm no expert but pretty good at math.

Very well put. I don't know anybody that had an inkling the brid season was going to be extended until the regs came out.

It could have come as a result of one of the "dickybird" studies ongoing at the UofA. Certainly it seems there was no consultation at the stakeholders level.

I'm going to dig into this and see if I can find out where the decision originated. Also like I said above definitely a question for any of the E&P input meetings.

[MK2750]

Originally Posted by Slash8

I was all pumped up to go out in December but never did. The simple reason being was I clocked 18 of those tasty morsels this year between September and November. I figured that was enough for myself. Even though we ate them all it gives me something to look forward to next season.

Abstinence makes the taste buds leak longer.....

I tried a new stand for deer this year and every day a group of five Ruffies would stroll by like clock work just after day break. I was tempted but hopeful there will be many more in the area next September. It is an awesome spot to run the dogs and a bust for deer anyway.

Another area north of Rimbey always has a nice population of winter grouse during deer season. They move out of the spruce in summer and early fall. I can generally bag 10 or 20 juveniles in Sept/Oct without disturbing my deer spot. I can't imagine harvesting the adults in winter and risk ruining that spot. I have gotten over 20 years of enjoyment over several different dogs there. A person is always guaranteed several flushes in an afternoon.

Only 7 months away

[Clarksen]

Originally Posted by Speckle55

Nice too have the extended season

saw a lot of grouse up here 267

got 143 with partners

37 were got in extended season

still seeing lots up here and hearing reports/pic's of more

most were shot with .22LR

not many were on roads (lease)

fun fun fun after Ungulate season

Got to Love Alberta!!!

David

Yep! sure love Alberta. Shoot all you can and then complain when everything is gone. Does and fawns, elk, and now grouse. And it's Fun! Fun! Fun! cuz it's legal!

[Okotokian]

Originally Posted by MK2750

Using this logic, why have seasons at all. Obviously with the reduction of bag limits someone must have figured there was too many being taken. .

I guess to settle this, we would need to know the population numbers before and after the extended season and know the long term impact. Neither of us have those numbers so it's all conjecture. I just say my conjecture is better than yours..

[trigger7mm]

Originally Posted by Speckle55

Nice too have the extended season

saw a lot of grouse up here 267

got 143 with partners

37 were got in extended season

still seeing lots up here and hearing reports/pic's of more

most were shot with .22LR

not many were on roads (lease)

fun fun fun after Ungulate season

Got to Love Alberta!!!

David

I totally understand wanting to get out and enjoy the outdoors, but who really needs to kill that many grouse? Is there no possession limit on them any moreit's nice to have a few in the freezer for later, but this kinds of reminds me of a guy I met who would catch his limit of perch every day, and then give them to anyone in his family who would eat them.

[lake side]

I can't comment too much except that I wished that I could have got out for the late season. After 2 months of chasing waterfowl and then 1 month on big game that damn holiday season crept in.

After that it was time to get ready for the hard water ice fishing season. Maybe next year if available.

So many critters.....so little time.

(I guess I shouldn't crab... I hunted for a aprx 55-60 days in 3 months while holding down a job)


L.S.

[Puma]

I totally understand wanting to get out and enjoy the outdoors, but who really needs to kill that many grouse? Is there no possession limit on them any moreit's nice to have a few in the freezer for later, but this kinds of reminds me of a guy I met who would catch his limit of perch every day, and then give them to anyone in his family who would eat them.


x2

[PFKGSP]

I meant to go out if we had a nice day and run the dogs a bit. Just never got around to it. I would have been going for Huns about 4 miles north. I wonder just how many people actually partook. If it really was an issue.

What I noticed by that time of year is that even with the dogs I wasn't getting remotely close enough to shoot so it just wasn't worth it.

[MK2750]

Originally Posted by Okotokian

I guess to settle this, we would need to know the population numbers before and after the extended season and know the long term impact. Neither of us have those numbers so it's all conjecture. I just say my conjecture is better than yours..

There is not an over abundance of upland game birds in Alberta, although there is an over abundance of hunters and that number is increasing.

Few birds - more dead birds = less birds

Stressed game animals + increased human activity = more stress

Conjecture is generally based on some sort of evidence or at least the expertise of the one voicing an opinion. Please share with us the evidence and logic that brought you to your opinion on this topic.

[Unregistered user]

Who needs anti-hunters when we have all these jealous folk right here?

[Clarksen]

Originally Posted by Unregistered user

Who needs anti-hunters when we have all these jealous folk right here?

Jealousy has nothing to do with it. It's plain common sense. Ever heard of the saying "don't kill your limit" - "limit your kill".

[MK2750]

Originally Posted by Unregistered user

Who needs anti-hunters when we have all these jealous folk right here?

Hunters are first and foremost conservationists putting the welfare of the environment ahead of gain or pleasure. Policing ourselves and advising lawmakers is the only way to ensure the future of hunting for all of us.

Moderation and good sportsmanship should not have to be legislated or called out on a public forum. Leaving something for our children and grandchildren should be common sense regardless of what we can get away with pushing the limits of the law.

A perfect example of this is how many of us refused to fill deer tags the last couple of years due to the extremely harsh winters. Some areas could handle the harvest while other could not. Many used restraint for the benefit of us all and made mention of it here to encourage other to exercise the same restraint.

I would hardly call this anti hunting.