After Thoughts of the Extended Bird Season

[MK2750]

Originally Posted by walking buffalo

I'll ask again.

Have you spoken with the F&W biologists regarding your concerns?

I will be forwarding my concerns and I have looked for the studies and the logic that lead to this extension, including my original post.

As I stated I have found no evidence of a study and if you have information regarding this topic please share it with us.

I have found evidence suggesting the contrary as fall seasons have been a proven method to harvest and control wildlife populations without adversely affecting the ecosystem. This has been studied to death and is the norm in most every jurisdictions that allows hunting. It is considered common knowledge to most everyone except apparently the Alberta government biologists.

[slickwilly]

The goal of the season is to increase hunter opportunity, which, if it can be done in a way that doesn't seriously impact the population, is a worthy goal in my opinion.
The end of December is a time that a lot of people have a few days off, and the kids are out of school, so it is an excellent chance for upland game hunting, which is generally a family-friendly style of hunting.

Are more birds going to be killed? Yes. Is that number a meaningful number in the general population trend? Clearly the people who write the rules don't think so.

[gs100bert]

i enjoyed the extended season my partner and i got out 0ne day a week for an extra 6 weeks the first day we got one ruffie each the last day the dogs put up 3 ruffies we shot none of them murfies law . the other days we never even saw a grouse but we did enjoy the extra days in the field working the dogs 2 gsp that are good dog and usually find birds . has we put on endless km in zone 400 i often wondered why the season was extended because there was not an over abundance of birds . even in sept to nov only shot less than a dz same zone .

[MK2750]

I enjoyed getting the dogs out as well. It breaks my heart to leave them home during deer season and this gives me a chance to make it up to them if only in my own mind.

The Ruffies we encountered were either perched in open trees eating buds or flushed from spruce areas only to land in open trees just a few yards away. We decided to let them be but enjoyed the hike none the less. The dogs were in full hunt mode and most definitely enjoyed it more than just a walk in the woods.

[wildside2014]

I commend you MK for not going off your rocker like some might have a few pages ago, and frankly I agree with you. Im not a believer in the 'extended season = more opportunity for new hunters' theory. The only guys in my eyes that took advantage of an extended grouse season were experienced hunters that wanted to pad the freezer stats. I didn't hear about too many new hunters heading out to new areas to bag a ruffy in the dead of winter. But again, just MHO.

I would like to see (for further upland extensions) no use of 22 rifles. Id say keep the 'extended opportunity to hunt' but limit it to wingshooting per say. You'll save a bunch of dead grouse but you'll still have your opportunity to hunt for longer during the season.

[diamonddave]

Originally Posted by MK2750

I'm not bent out of shape and would love to hear the logic behind people's support or lack there of. What bothers me is people that continuously contradict others and provide no evidence to back that opinion. They simply keep spewing mindless contradiction as a source of entertainment.

I have been proven wrong and changed my opinion numerous times on various topics by reading the posts of people more experienced. Unfortunately many of these people are gone. They either get banned for calling out these internet experts or simply leave the forum because they are tried of the mindless arguing.

Take your post for example. Are you going to put forward an opinion on the extension of the bird season or are you just going to attack me personally?

Believe me, I am not mad. I have tracks of private land to hunt on with enough deer and grouse to last me as long as I can manage to get out. I have been in direct sales to farmers in central Alberta for thirty years and have access to places most can only dream of. If you people don't want to question the management practises of government after what we have witnessed in this province you can expect more of the same.

I wasn't attacking you, I actually agree with lots of what you have put forth. But the majority of what you have said is your opinion based on what you have personally witnessed. When others have put their own thoughts and observations down that are contrary to yours, you say they are arguing with you.
I as well have had the good fortune of having close relationships with many landowners that allow me to access their land, and I have no fear of going without. But are there places with several issues going on, you bet there is.
In my local areas there seems to be a shortage of birds this year so I never took the extended season opportunity. But in my elk and moose country there were more birds than you could shake a stick at.
Everybody needs to have management in the back of their mind and each zone needs to be managed differently. When speckle can go out and shoot 50 chickens you think its wrong, do you know the area he hunts? Have you put boots to the ground where he does? Do you have first hand knowledge of the area that you can come up to the conclusion that he is in the wrong, and he should have only shot 10?
That's my point.

[MK2750]

Originally Posted by diamonddave

I wasn't attacking you, I actually agree with lots of what you have put forth. But the majority of what you have said is your opinion based on what you have personally witnessed. When others have put their own thoughts and observations down that are contrary to yours, you say they are arguing with you.
I as well have had the good fortune of having close relationships with many landowners that allow me to access their land, and I have no fear of going without. But are there places with several issues going on, you bet there is.
In my local areas there seems to be a shortage of birds this year so I never took the extended season opportunity. But in my elk and moose country there were more birds than you could shake a stick at.
Everybody needs to have management in the back of their mind and each zone needs to be managed differently. When speckle can go out and shoot 50 chickens you think its wrong, do you know the area he hunts? Have you put boots to the ground where he does? Do you have first hand knowledge of the area that you can come up to the conclusion that he is in the wrong, and he should have only shot 10?
That's my point.

Being from Rocky you don't need a fortune teller to tell you the future of other areas. You know full well how the hunting and fishing has suffered due to poor management.

25 or 30 years ago we could go out west of Rocky in the morning chasing elk, grab a half dozen grouse over lunch and pick up a decent Mulie on the way home. Now only those of us with access to private land or those willing to drive up north can enjoy that kind of hunting.

Remember when Stubel Lake and Cow Lake held Rainbow trout we only see in magazines now?

There is no doubt there is remote places that have good numbers of game and great fishing. What I am saying is don't make the same mistakes over and over again and expect different results.

[diamonddave]

This is why I agree with lots you have posted. And why I choose to hunt almost anywhere but around Rocky, even tho I live here. Sure there are patches of w.t around and the odd elk herd, but so few and far between that its hardly worth firing up the truck. The lack of game in this country is due to many reasons, not only the stupid amount of sup doe tags. There are no sup tags for elk are there?

[Full Curl Earl]

MK, your trying to have a moral and ethical debate with a couple folks who believe there is no place for either of those things in the woods.
I thought you brought out a well presented question, but then ya got called a lunatic, told you need to stop typing and get out in the woods by a guy who is typing and not in the woods himself!
This stuff is great, but its a great question, did the birds need this extended season?
And comparing Sask hunter numbers to Alberta is not a real comparison, they have more bush land and plenty less people and hunters.
End the name calling Bully garbage and do something to help out the tradition of hunting for crying out load.

[MK2750]

Originally Posted by diamonddave

This is why I agree with lots you have posted. And why I choose to hunt almost anywhere but around Rocky, even tho I live here. Sure there are patches of w.t around and the odd elk herd, but so few and far between that its hardly worth firing up the truck. The lack of game in this country is due to many reasons, not only the stupid amount of sup doe tags. There are no sup tags for elk are there?

I don't have the answers but I do know we have to be asking a lot more questions instead of blindly following the rules. With the increase in hunting pressure and the decrease in game populations, anything involving increased limits and seasons should be monitored very closely.

All is certainly not gloom and doom,

Waterfowl populations are healthy and are an excellent option for those seeking added opportunity.

The new pheasant release program and the hard work of many is creating added opportunity as well. The release sites are crowded suggesting more involvement and hopefully further expansion of the program.

Although a sore spot for many people, I believe the awareness and opening up of lease land will benefit both hunters and wildlife. Hunting pressure is now concentrated in areas that just can't handle the number of people. I know of many sections of lease land where all you have to do is ask that never see hunters. Many more are held as private sanctuaries by greedy lease holders making access difficult if not impossible.

Anyway, I didn't start this thread to ruffle a bunch of feathers . Hopefully people will get involved in the decision making process be it for or against.

[Clarksen]

Originally Posted by diamonddave

This is why I agree with lots you have posted. And why I choose to hunt almost anywhere but around Rocky, even tho I live here. Sure there are patches of w.t around and the odd elk herd, but so few and far between that its hardly worth firing up the truck. The lack of game in this country is due to many reasons, not only the stupid amount of sup doe tags. There are no sup tags for elk are there?

There have been cow/calf late season mid winter elk tags issued for years. In at least one WMU I am told more tags are issued than there are elk and in other WMU's there are too few elk to survey.

[diamonddave]

I didn't say cow/calf late season now did I? I said suplimental elk tags. I'm well aware of the regular cow tags.
My point was that there are many factors at play in the Rocky area, extra tags is just one issue.

[Okotokian]

Originally Posted by Bushrat

The grouse population could easily be decimated in no time at all if say only 5% or 10% of grouse hunters took it in their head to go out shoot a hundred or so grouse every year . Remember what happened to the passenger pigeon, they said that could never happen. Thankfully people who shoot that many grouse are rare.

With respect, I trust them over your estimates of game numbers and hunter success rates. Hunters taking 100 grouse a year?? On average? Not sure how you decided on that number. And what is the current grouse population? Is it going up or down? And how many upland hunters are there? And what percentage would or did hunt the extended season? You know few of those figures. I don't either, but F&W likely have some, estimates for others, and experience and education to make the decision.

Your argument is driven by emotion, not "common sense" as you say. IF you believe that any hunting season in general is bad for game populations the an extension of the season by definition must be worse. It feels like a bad idea to you, so you disagree. Fair enough. But it's not fact or science driven argument you are offering. So you implying I don't have the necessary knowledge to disagree with you is not relevant.

[Okotokian]

Originally Posted by MK2750

IAs usual you had nothing intelligent to bring to the conversation but opted to up your post count by adding a few senseless comments. Your only intent was to antagonise.

What is your problem Sunshine? I've not been rude to anyone. I've talked about why I support the extended season. And been polite. No name calling or saying anyone else's ideas wer stupid, dumb, that they were a troll, etc. You upset because I say ya rather than you?

YOU asked for opinions, as others you have taken shots at here have pointed out. Get a few you don't like and you start insulting other members? I'd say your only intent with this post was to antagonize, belittle, and get your internet tough guy rocks off. Please don't start threads in future asking others for their opinion if you can't handle those who don't agree with you. Just ask your mom instead.

[MK2750]

Originally Posted by Okotokian

What is your problem Sunshine? I've not been rude to anyone. I've talked about why I support the extended season. And been polite. No name calling or saying anyone else's ideas wer stupid, dumb, that they were a troll, etc. You upset because I say ya rather than you?

YOU asked for opinions, as others you have taken shots at here have pointed out. Get a few you don't like and you start insulting other members? I'd say your only intent with this post was to antagonize, belittle, and get your internet tough guy rocks off. Please don't start threads in future asking others for their opinion if you can't handle those who don't agree with you. Just ask your mom instead.

You didn't give an opinion Sunshine, just smart comments;

"If ya don't like it stay home" and "Who ya got in your corner?"

You like to comment on everything as evident in your post count. If I see a topic I know little about, I read and learn. I don't feel it necessary to invent a view to the contrary or regurgitate something I read off the net.

If you are looking for someone who "gets off" on internet games look no further than your one and two line comments on every topic known to man.

BTW if we were talking Snow Geese (not to be mistaken for Swans) your earlier conjecture would have had some merit.

[Clarksen]

Originally Posted by diamonddave

I didn't say cow/calf late season now did I? I said suplimental elk tags. I'm well aware of the regular cow tags.
My point was that there are many factors at play in the Rocky area, extra tags is just one issue.

My humble apologies sir. I didn't realize semantics were that important.

[diamonddave]

You think the difference between a cow elk draw and giving out 2 sup doe tags to every Tom Dick and Harry is semantics?
Sounds about right.....

[Okotokian]

Originally Posted by MK2750

"If ya don't like it stay home" and "Who ya got in your corner?"

.

Those two comments weren't even in the same post, and aren't even in the same ballpark is the childish insults you routinely hand out to anyone who's opinion rubs you the wrong way, even when you've asked for opinions. And if you check your own thread you'll find I'm not the only one who notices your hurt feelings if you don't get agreement and a hug.

Anyway, done here.

[shedcrazy]

I am far from an expert in upland game bird but the main common variables for game managers for allowing in most cases generous game limits and seasons for upland birds are: Upland game birds have high death rates no matter if they are hunted or not, upland birds in general can't be stockpiled (most hunters think that by leaving them they are stockpiling an area but that has been shown not to be true), population rates from hunted and non-hunted areas have been shown to be close to the same (showing that hunting has next to little affect in general areas), and weather/environmental conditions have everything to do with local population variations.

I am not making a case for the extended bird seasons but stating why in general we have the generous limits and long seasons that we do. Most of my upland game management I have been involved in is an area that does not have a long hunting season but I do have decades of data that spring counts in areas that have never been hunted and areas that are hunted hard (but for a short period of time) show little to no difference. If spring counts are up in one area they are up in the other area (in the general area) and mostly by very similar numbers. Spring is the enemy of upland birds not hunters.

I never went out for the extended season as I am hunted out by December and not sure what the uptake of hunters was but I guess any excuse to be outside is a good one.

That being said I have not seen any info on what the goal of the extended season was or what the reasoning was.

It's a tough short life being an upland bird.

[MK2750]

Originally Posted by Okotokian

Those two comments weren't even in the same post, and aren't even in the same ballpark is the childish insults you routinely hand out to anyone who's opinion rubs you the wrong way, even when you've asked for opinions. And if you check your own thread you'll find I'm not the only one who notices your hurt feelings if you don't get agreement and a hug.

Anyway, done here.

Your last comment was about my mom and I am the childish one.

Too bad you're done. You were bringing so much to the discussion.

[Full Curl Earl]

I do appreciate Shedcrazy's insight, but am curious and a bit suspicious...
-Area 1 has 100 birds, and hunters kill 50. 50 remain.
-Area 2 has 60 birds, and hunters kill 50. 10 remain.
How does this have no bearing on the outcome for the following year?

[shedcrazy]

I do appreciate Shedcrazy's insight, but am curious and a bit suspicious...
-Area 1 has 100 birds, and hunters kill 50. 50 remain.
-Area 2 has 60 birds, and hunters kill 50. 10 remain.
How does this have no bearing on the outcome for the following year?

The harvest in your example is rare as once the population gets low hunter pressure goes down as success is reduced. But anyways, you might have very small pockets that get over hunted and that might have an affect but it might not. Odds are that +50 of those birds were dying anyways. Hunters just beat the other 100 ways for a grouse to die. Grouse just have a huge mortality rate and they just can't be stockpiled like we think they can.

Besides made-up examples what I can show you are 54 active leks in one year and about half of those are in hunted areas and half aren't. If the last spring was good the numbers will be up and almost identical % and if the spring was poor both will be down be close to the same %. It's might seem crazy but I got 40yrs of data showing it. That's what I believe.

Again I have not seen any info on what effects late season harvest might have and if there any other management issues being late and possible critical timings. Hopefully when you write in you can share the response.

Habitat and spring weather are the 2 main issues for good upland populations each fall. Let's hope we have a good spring!

S

[MK2750]

There is no doubt some truth to sheds theory as I have read it many times.

Logic would suggest that dead birds do not hatch eggs and that killing a hen would result in 6-12 fewer grouse in the area next spring.

The same "butterfly effect" logic would suggest that if a person killed one coyote that would have killed 4 grouse over the winter months that there would be 24-48 more grouse in the area next spring.

I think we can all agree it is not as cut and dried as that.

I grew up in Nova Scotia where grouse hunting is a religion. I was limited to walking distance as were my friends and we killed every grouse we could find. The area was popular as it was near 3 larger towns and the pressure on grouse was insane compared to here. Every year there was grouse and some years they seemed to be everywhere. They were much craftier than here however and without a good dog and shooting skills you were very unlikely to bag more than a few a season. We did not hunt them in the winter.

I am a grouse hunter first and foremost. During deer season I always make at least some mental notes as to grouse sightings and sign. Without fail when I return in September and October there is good birds in the areas I made note of.

I travel over much more country and see many more birds in the spring and summer while fishing and hiking. I don't even bother keeping notes on the birds as more often than not they are gone come hunting season

The mortality rate and dispersion of spring/summer birds is obviously extreme. They are young and nature is a 'one strike you're out' teacher more often than not. By the time hunting season rolls around they have wised up some but are still easy pickings for road hunters and predators.

The survivors have become very cagey and IMO extremely important to the survival and blood line of the species. My theory (be it right or wrong) is that you would be far better off killing 20 early season grouse as one of the winter survivors.

One would be no doubt be taking the wisest and healthiest birds from the flock every time you pulled the trigger in winter instead of the younger and slower ones that make up the majority of the fall harvest.

I think that if they make it to winter they have a very good chance of making it until spring. The closer to spring nesting you killed one the more of an effect you would have. Obviously shooting one off the nest would be worst practise but where exactly do we draw the line. A week before nesting, two weeks, a month, two months???

I hope the spring is good and the extension has no effect what so ever on bird numbers this fall. As we witnessed with the white-tails, mother nature will have the final say.

[Tactical Lever]

Originally Posted by MK2750

Glad you enjoyed it and I am sure this will crack you right up.

It has been scientifically proven that killing Coyotes for sport has absolute no effect on reducing populations and in fact may have the opposite effect. Coyotes are more intelligent than most people and have the ability to breed as needed. Kill more and they make even more.

Pressure from recreational hunters have caused coyotes to abandon their usual diet of mostly vermin and live a more reclusive life in the heavy bush targeting larger prey and game birds. They also adapted to hunting in packs where need be.

There is more Coyotes alive than have ever lived and their range has expanded across Canada and the US. They are truly a success story as numbers can even be found in large urban areas where they never lived before.

People have been trying to control Coyotes forever and the Coyote is still winning. It is a proven waste of time but by all means use what ever logic you see fit. As a trapper you will no doubt benefit regardless.

Wolves are certainly an issue but again that is an area that is beyond the control of the average Joe. Having any significant impact on their population would take more time and effort than most of us have to offer.

What we can control is our impact on game populations by imposing limits, honoring seasons, avoiding sensitive areas and reporting our observations to those that make the rules.

I am all for more opportunity. I am having trouble understanding how increased harvest in the dead of winter is going to do anything but reduce opportunities in years to come.

If you want to put blame on a lack of small game, you might want to look at coyote, lynx and fox. And fishers, corvids, skunks, domestic cats, raptors, etc.

Contrary to what you believe there are about 6 times the population density of coyotes surrounding urban areas and towns as out in the middle of no-where. And as you mentioned, wouldn't killing a coyote save a few grouse that year? The same people that saying that killing coyotes makes no difference bemoan the timber industry as if trees don't grow back.

I believe the real reason coyotes are out of control is the relative dearth of small family farms in recent years, and the lack of being able to thin them around the outskirts of towns. I would also say the overall decline of trapping is also a factor. Same deal with wolves. It was not "sport hunting" that decimated them down south. They were simply trapped, poisoned and shot on sight, by people who carried guns as a matter of habit.

As for coyotes only targeting vermin; that is crazy talk. They will eat cow crap, apples, garbage, Fifi, and just about anything that crosses their path.

You, I and the rest of the hunters simply will not be out enough, in all the out of the way locations to kill off the grouse. I agree with Speckle, and one would do well to learn from his experience and knowledge of the outdoors.

[walking buffalo]

Originally Posted by MK2750

There is no doubt some truth to sheds theory as I have read it many times.

So you have seen the research.

Many reseach papers keep on stating the same observation.

Even under extemely heavy hunting pressure compared to what we experience in Alberta, such as in Michigan or Minnisota or New York, hunter harvest is a minor cause of grouse mortalily, often peaking around 10%. Comparisons between neighboring hunted and unhunted grouse populations usually show little to no difference in numbers.

I'll agree with F&W on this one. the extended grouse season is not a conservation concern and certainly does provide an excellence addition to our hunting opportunity.
I'm in favour of it.

Now to add an April drumming season hunt.

[hippietrekker]

Originally Posted by wildside2014

I would like to see (for further upland extensions) no use of 22 rifles. Id say keep the 'extended opportunity to hunt' but limit it to wingshooting per say. You'll save a bunch of dead grouse but you'll still have your opportunity to hunt for longer during the season.

This statement has me a little perplexed; I use a 17hmr (head shots) for hunting small game - had I been wingshooting with a shotgun I feel as though my harvest rate would have significantly increased as I could take birds which I bumped into the air. Cutting these small caliber rifles for use in hunting upland birds, to me, does not make sense.

I am curious why you suggest not using these guns for hunting upland birds?

[MK2750]

Originally Posted by walking buffalo

So you have seen the research.

Many reseach papers keep on stating the same observation.

Even under extemely heavy hunting pressure compared to what we experience in Alberta, such as in Michigan or Minnisota or New York, hunter harvest is a minor cause of grouse mortalily, often peaking around 10%. Comparisons between neighboring hunted and unhunted grouse populations usually show little to no difference in numbers.

I'll agree with F&W on this one. the extended grouse season is not a conservation concern and certainly does provide an excellence addition to our hunting opportunity.
I'm in favour of it.

Now to add an April drumming season hunt.

Michigan Grouse Season Dates: Sept 15 - Nov 14 and Dec 1 - Jan 1

Bag Limit: 5 (daily), 10 (possession) Zones 1 and 2
and 3 (daily), 6 (possession) Zone 3

Minnesota - 9/17/16 - 01/01/17 Ruffed and Spruce Grouse, Hungarian Partridge season-limit 5

They obviously have put a limit of harvest and stopped the season at Jan 1. Considering the difference in location that would be closer to Dec 1 here.

Although we think of the US as densely populated and more urban than Canada it most certainly is not. Maine, Michigan, Minnesota, the Dakotas and the Pacific north west are some of the wildest places in North America and provide an environment and climate ideal for many game birds and animals.

In Nova Scotia where I hunted as a kid the forest is thick and filled with wild apple orchards, volunteer grapes, choke cherries, as well as all the different wild berries we find here. There is seldom any snow before Christmas and storms although severe are short lived. What we are experiencing here in Alberta this year would be a typical Nova Scotia winter or even a little harsher than most.

The amount of birds that can live in a small area is incredible when they have food and shelter. I have seen more birds on a couple of acres of land back east than could live on many sections here.

The US differs from here in many ways and in many ways they certainly do seem to manage game better.

Anyway, I don't believe we are comparing apples to apples when it comes to habitat and like I said, they still limit the season to fall only and have a five bird limit in spite of the studies. Studying the US model would have to include paid hunting and the millions of dollars spent on private food plot management that that exists there. Hunting is big business there and I don't think we want that here.

I guess we have to agree to disagree. Fall seasons are the norm in most every jurisdiction for a reason. They work and will continue to work.

I will admit I have a short attention span. I love to fly fish but come September I have had more than enough even though some of the best fishing is in the fall. I love to hunt birds in September and October but am ready to go deer hunting come November. Come winter, I am hunted out and start looking forward to spring fishing. Too much of a good thing or is it everything in moderation.

[MK2750]

Originally Posted by Tactical Lever

If you want to put blame on a lack of small game, you might want to look at coyote, lynx and fox. And fishers, corvids, skunks, domestic cats, raptors, etc.

Contrary to what you believe there are about 6 times the population density of coyotes surrounding urban areas and towns as out in the middle of no-where. And as you mentioned, wouldn't killing a coyote save a few grouse that year? The same people that saying that killing coyotes makes no difference bemoan the timber industry as if trees don't grow back.

I believe the real reason coyotes are out of control is the relative dearth of small family farms in recent years, and the lack of being able to thin them around the outskirts of towns. I would also say the overall decline of trapping is also a factor. Same deal with wolves. It was not "sport hunting" that decimated them down south. They were simply trapped, poisoned and shot on sight, by people who carried guns as a matter of habit.

As for coyotes only targeting vermin; that is crazy talk. They will eat cow crap, apples, garbage, Fifi, and just about anything that crosses their path.

You, I and the rest of the hunters simply will not be out enough, in all the out of the way locations to kill off the grouse. I agree with Speckle, and one would do well to learn from his experience and knowledge of the outdoors.

This is a strange post. You quoted me as if to contradict and said pretty much nothing contrary to what I have already stated.

I too believe that predation is a major problem and stated such.

I too believe there are large populations of predators living in urban areas and stated as such. You should see the Racoons that live in eastern cities and towns.

I too believe in the forestry as a renewable resource and have worked in that industry.

We both stated that sport or recreational hunting does little to lower predator populations. I have nothing against trapping and hunting of fur bearers and never said that I did. What I said was that the recreational hunting of coyotes has little effect on populations.

I at no time would suggest that coyotes wont eat nearly anything. I stated that left to their own devices they would spend most of their time targeting vermin as this is their natural prey and easiest to catch. If we chase them off the fields full of mice every time we see them, they simply find something else to eat.

I also agree with you that no amount of hunting will kill off all the grouse. You state your location as Fox Creek and Speckle says he is in Hinton. We had crazy numbers around here in the Rocky Caroline area too before everyone started coming from 3 major cities to harvest them. There are still grouse if you know where to go but I bet you that you and Speckle would be very disappointed if you had to do your hunting around here.

Where they went, I don't know. It is probably a combination of many things but they are not bouncing back with the cycles that they use to. It goes from near none in bad years to a few in good years. Not few to many like years ago.

I just can't see how adding winter hunting is going to help matters. If few (or nobody) actually asked for this extension, why take a chance on trying it.

[Sharpie]

I dare you to shoot all the grouse in Hinton!!!! But true in open country. I swear my uncle shot all the pheasents when he was younger. Thats what my Father says anyway, they have repopulated since then but thats what he said when i was a kid and we hardly seen any...... they are everywhere now which is nice to see. I will only shoot one cock bird a year in my hunting spots if any, 90% of the time i just watch them.

[Sharpie]

Originally Posted by Speckle55

Nice too have the extended season

saw a lot of grouse up here 267

got 143 with partners

37 were got in extended season

still seeing lots up here and hearing reports/pic's of more

most were shot with .22LR

not many were on roads (lease)

fun fun fun after Ungulate season

Got to Love Alberta!!!

David

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