Varmit gun

[827rotax]

HEY guys I have been a member for a while now and spend more time on here reading and posting when I am out of town as I am now. Great site and the more I read there are some very intellegent members. I would like to buy a varmit gun. Two questions make and caliber. I will be shooting gophers and yotes. I would also like to do some long range shooting and eventually some re-loading. I have my eye on the Ruger M77 Hawkeye Predator in either a .223 or .243. Any options in this price range or feedback on this rifle would be very much appreciated. I believe the M77 to be around a grand. I have a T3 300 wim mag that i shoot all my other game with, I love it but there varmit rifle is more than I want to spend right now.
Thanks for all the input.

[rottie]

If your going to use it on the occasional deer the .243 would be good. If however you are going to be shooting more yotes than anything why not try the 22 250,its a bit much for some gopher shooting but can reach out and touch them. It also adds a few yards to your yote shooting.
Lots of info for reloading it as well is available.

I have used the .222,.223,22 250 and at one time the .220 swift this is what I base my opinion on

Hope some of his helps

Ian

[clakjp]

I would really look at a savage varmit gun. I am still amazed on how accurate they are and the price is good aswell.I dont like to admit it but savage are probably the most accurate rifle on the market.I would go with a fastertwist barrel with what ever one you deside on.

[lannie]

I think the T3 varmint is a 1060.? Just 60 more than the m77. You could get
the t3 in 223 with a 1 in 8 twist. Use it for varmints, load long bullets 69,75 gr. and it would be good for longer range stuff. The small differnece in initial
price would be would be re couped very quickly in the shooting costs if reloading. 69 gr. sierra's are 24.95/100. less powder and very accurate in that rifle. Shoot 55's or less if you want more velocity. It is great practice using the heavier bullets at longer distances for gophers. What ever you decide to purchase i "think" gettting something with a fast twist would be a
good idea. You will be able to cover more bases with this in mind than specific caliber choices.

[Homesteader]

I would go with a regular T3, same as your 300. Unless you really lay down alot of shots in the gopher patch, barrel heat won't be much of an issue. I like a lighter varmint rifle for packing especially for yote's, of the heavy barrels I've had, they are just too cumbersome for field work. I'd choose 223 of the two you named, unless deer are on the menu. There are quite a few guys who accurately reach out to a 1000yds plus with the heavy 223 bullets.

[aulrich]

I ran a 243 as a varmint rifle for a while it's too big to be a primary varmint gun so though it will work just fine it's just not all that practical.

Plenty of right answers have been given, I'll add one more 204 ruger. especially if you will end up reloading, 223 powder capacity for a 22-250 trajectory.

[HunterDave]

This winter I was in the same situation as you. I did allot of research and asked allot of questions before finally making my mind up. For coyotes I bought a Stevens in 22-250 and for gophers I bought a Savage 17hmr BTVS. I'm really happy with going the route of buying two "economy" rifles over buying one "expensive" rifle. The 22-250 is a great caliber for coyotes and is good for gophers but a little loud for shooting 2-300 rounds per day IMO. Some farmers might be concerned for their neighbours with all that shooting going on in their pasture. The 17hmr is a phenomenal rifle for gophers out to 200 yards (maybe farther if the wind stops blowing) and not much louder than a 22. I've been told that it's good for coyotes as well but I don't have to worry about that because I have my 22-250. Both rifles are extremely accurate and will cost you well below a grand. Good luck with your decision.

[Marlin xl7]

2 years ago I bought a H&R varmint handi rifle, in 223. Very accurate gun, but if I was going to do it again I would go with the Remington model 700 vls in 22-250.

[leo]

Buy what fits and what you like. But some thing to think about , having a varmint rifle on the same platform as your big game rifle goes along way to "Familiarity".But if your possessed with firearms and must buy one that you see , we fully understand your plight.

[gatorr]

If your going to shoot gophers and coyotes then the .204 is the perfect caliber. No rcoil for shooting gophers and more then enough power to kill coyotes at long range. Ammo is cheaper then other varmint rounds and easy to reload for.

[timsesink]

it really depends on what you're going for in priority, if your shots are under 200 yards for yotes the .204 is great however it's wind bucking ability leaves something to be desired. Since you're interested in maybe reloading I personally think the 22-250 would be the ticket. However if mainly gophers with the occasional coyote calling under 200yardish then go wild with the .204. The .204 will reach further but not in my opinion in a reliable fashion.

[timsesink]

T3 Varmint, Browning X-Bolt Varmint, Remington VSSF, and ther M77 would all be great choices.

[4thredneck]

CZ 527 in 223 is what I would recomend.

[redranger15]

Originally Posted by gatorr

If your going to shoot gophers and coyotes then the .204 is the perfect caliber. No rcoil for shooting gophers and more then enough power to kill coyotes at long range. Ammo is cheaper then other varmint rounds and easy to reload for.

What he said.

[gube]

Originally Posted by gatorr

If your going to shoot gophers and coyotes then the .204 is the perfect caliber. No rcoil for shooting gophers and more then enough power to kill coyotes at long range. Ammo is cheaper then other varmint rounds and easy to reload for.

Originally Posted by redranger15

What he said.

For gophers and yotes, the 204 is my favorite. I do have a 243 for varminting as well, but the 204 is my favorite. I have three now (can never have to many in a p-dog field).

[noneck180]

Once you have shot a 20 Cal,, it is really hard to shoot anything else..IMHO

[827rotax]

Thanks Guys, I have had a problem with purchase overload. two for the price of one is not a bad deal however I am quite picky and would really like the best for my money all around, and the Hawkeye looks great in matte Satinless with green oak laminate! I would never be disapionted to buy another Tika, I bought my 300 at P and D and when sighting in for 200 I only needed two or three clicks for a one inch group,(that is lying down shooting with a bipod) they are great rifles for the money. But I reaaallllly like the Hawkeye. My buddy has a savage 17HMR it is fun for gophers, I dont know what to do??????

[gunner72]

Don't forget about the old 22 hornet. Ruger makes a vary nice model 77 and they have a good rotory clip design. With about 12 gr of powder(h110) you can send a 40gr 22 cal. bullet around 3000fps. Cheap to load and fun to shoot. I've never shot a coyote with mine but it'll smack a 300 yard gone pretty good? I think the Ruger is around 700$ or browning makes a nice one in a micro hunter for around the same price. I have a NEF single shot, you can likely get one of these for around 350$.

[HunterDave]

Originally Posted by 827rotax

.....I am quite picky and would really like the best for my money all around......My buddy has a savage 17HMR it is fun for gophers, I dont know what to do??????

Why not buy the nice Hawkeye now and buy the 17hmr a little farther down the road if you still want it?

[lclund1946]

Originally Posted by timsesink

it really depends on what you're going for in priority, if your shots are under 200 yards for yotes the .204 is great however it's wind bucking ability leaves something to be desired. Since you're interested in maybe reloading I personally think the 22-250 would be the ticket. However if mainly gophers with the occasional coyote calling under 200yardish then go wild with the .204. The .204 will reach further but not in my opinion in a reliable fashion.

I wonder what you base your comments on. What bullet and at what, confirmed velocity, do you shoot in a 22-250 that will buck the wind better than a 204 Ruger?
My ballistics program shows the 40 grain V-Max at 204 Ruger factory velocity of 3900fps (confirmed in my CZ 527 with 25 5/8" barrel) to have 26"drop, 24" drift and retaining 404 ft. lbs energy at 500 yards. The only factory 22-250 ammo that comes close is the Federal 55 BK and BtHP. When sighted the same, as the 204 Ruger, at 500 yards they drop over 30 inches and drift 27.82" and 26.3" respectivly. They are the only two factory 22-250 rounds that retain slightly more energy than the 204 Ruger at 500 yards.

[827rotax]

Originally Posted by lclund1946

I wonder what you base your comments on. What bullet and at what, confirmed velocity, do you shoot in a 22-250 that will buck the wind better than a 204 Ruger?
My ballistics program shows the 40 grain V-Max at 204 Ruger factory velocity of 3900fps (confirmed in my CZ 527 with 25 5/8" barrel) to have 26"drop, 24" drift and retaining 404 ft. lbs energy at 500 yards. The only factory 22-250 ammo that comes close is the Federal 55 BK and BtHP. When sighted the same, as the 204 Ruger, at 500 yards they drop over 30 inches and drift 27.82" and 26.3" respectivly. They are the only two factory 22-250 rounds that retain slightly more energy than the 204 Ruger at 500 yards.

Is that enough stopping power for a yote at 500 yards? I hit a yote with my 300 win @ 417 yards and i would say it was adaquate. Lots of great opinions guys. I do like the idea of buying the two, I have a little shooter coming through the ranks right now, so that could be a reason to buy another gun!!
Cant say enough about the info and comments guys, it is great to hear them all.
rotax
oh and great smilies!

[827rotax]

IcLund, "My ballistics program shows"

Where do you get a good ballistics program? i have a book but if this is on the computer that would be way better!!

[redranger15]

Most guys that have a 204 love them.Get one and you will love it .It's a great cal for a young shooter as there is very little recoil. I had a 22-250 and sold it for a 204 and am very glad I did.There are three in the family now and a lot of dead yotes.

[lclund1946]

RCBS Load works better than most feeebies. Wholesale Sports have it for about $135.00. It comes loaded with virtually all Factory Ammo and bullets available. You can add new bullets as they come on stream as well. You can compare up to five loads at a time and make informed decisions about down range ballistics. If everyone did this there would be no more confusion about heavier bullets versus lighter bullets etc. If you use a chronograph and put in detailed information you will be able to compute how many clicks you will have to elevate to shoot at long range provided you have it shooting small groups at 100yards.

Here is an example of what can be done. In this example I had Zeroed the rifle at 100 yards. RCBS Load told me that I needed 10 MOA to go to 500 yard Zero. My Leica 1200 Rangefinder said 503 yards. This group was shot resting over the hood of my truck by myself and a friend. My shaky legs accounted for the flyer.
[IMG][/IMG]

As I explained the program is only as good as the information you put into it and the accuracy of the rifle you are using. This is what my old Rem 700V, in 7mm-08 is capable of.
[IMG][/IMG]

[827rotax]

Thank you very much for the info lclund1946!!!!! You have just made me $135 bucks Poorer! Thank you for sharing your time and knowledge. I was at wss today and asked a guy behind the gun counter if he had a program simmilar, he said they dont exist. I am off to cowtown for the weekend and going to stop at the "big store". I also was at P and D today, she did say that she has herd of one took my name and will call if they track it down, they were swamped today.
Thanks again, I am finding a re-newing passion for this shooting thing again, I was doing so much then life got in the way, but I am back. The more info the better then go with choice.
Thanks to all!

[lannie]

If you are going to buy a ballistics program you really need to purchase a chronograph to utilize the info. If not buying the chrono too i would stick to
guesstamating with the free stuff online.

[lclund1946]

Originally Posted by 827rotax

Thank you very much for the info lclund1946!!!!! You have just made me $135 bucks Poorer! Thank you for sharing your time and knowledge. I was at wss today and asked a guy behind the gun counter if he had a program simmilar, he said they dont exist. I am off to cowtown for the weekend and going to stop at the "big store". I also was at P and D today, she did say that she has herd of one took my name and will call if they track it down, they were swamped today.
Thanks again, I am finding a re-newing passion for this shooting thing again, I was doing so much then life got in the way, but I am back. The more info the better then go with choice.
Thanks to all!

There seems to be a lot of that going on a Wholesale sports these days!! I saw a copy of RCBS Ballistics Reloading Software at the North Edmonton Store a few days ago. It is in the gun counter display, where they keep their measuring tools etc., just as you walk in.
Here is a link to WS Item # 86291, Mfr.#99915.
http://ca.wholesalesports.com/storef...prod86291.html Looks like the online price is only $129.95 so just saved you a few bucks LOL.

You can do Down Range Ballistics comparisons of many different cartridges and bullets. As well there is a lot of other interesting and informative features. To get the results that I showed you you will need a chronograph. I set the chronograph exactly 5 yards (tape measured 15") from the muzzle. I take that reading and use the RCBS program to get the exact Muzzle Velocity. I know that it may sound anal to some but it works for me.

[timsesink]

Interesting point about the .204 I wasn't aware of the benefits, I've only heard from others that they preffered the 22-250 for any long range yote shots due to wind and carry energy.

[lannie]

Originally Posted by lclund1946

I wonder what you base your comments on. What bullet and at what, confirmed velocity, do you shoot in a 22-250 that will buck the wind better than a 204 Ruger?
My ballistics program shows the 40 grain V-Max at 204 Ruger factory velocity of 3900fps (confirmed in my CZ 527 with 25 5/8" barrel) to have 26"drop, 24" drift and retaining 404 ft. lbs energy at 500 yards. The only factory 22-250 ammo that comes close is the Federal 55 BK and BtHP. When sighted the same, as the 204 Ruger, at 500 yards they drop over 30 inches and drift 27.82" and 26.3" respectivly. They are the only two factory 22-250 rounds that retain slightly more energy than the 204 Ruger at 500 yards.

Not trying to stir it up too much Iclund but.......
I can't shoot 40gr. with my 204 with any accuracy at all. I think the most common bullet is the 32 gr. The 22-250 does fair better at longer ranges than the 204 with the drift, velocity and energy at 500 yds. drop is about the same. After that yardage the 22-250 really starts winning everywhere.
What grain of bullet do you use in your 20 caliber rifle ?
When the OP asked his original question's he stated that he also wanted to do some long range shooting. My interpretation of long range starts at 500 and continues past that. Past that the 204's start eating dust. My suggestion was fast twist first, then caliber. 223 with heavier bullets will get
him into long range stuff economically. Shoot 55's or less for flatter trajectories close in- this is where the 204 shines.
He could go with a fast twist in 22-250 too to "get all he desires" but i think the 223's would be a better starting point.
As with all calibers there are compromises including the 204 and 223.
From what i have been reading you are obviously very knowledgable in the ballistics field- much more than i and a more accomplished shooter.
This post is not intended to smear the 204's or the fans of them. I am one.

[noneck180]

The OP doesn't reload..have you ever taken a 22-250 to a gopher patch,,the only way th OP is going to get a fast twist 22-250 is to buy an aftermarket barrel, shorter barrel life on the 250, way more powder, and if you can hit gophers consistently over 500 yards..I want to go with you..