New vs Used Firearms

[elkhunter11]

A couple of days ago, I had a friend asking for recommendations on a hunting rifle for a co-worker. He had already decided on a 7mmremmag, and was asking me to recommend a brand and model. I recommended a Vanguard or a T-3, and then I did what I normally do, and checked the Prophet River consignment and used rifle listings. I found a like new Vanguard Range Certified, listed at $1050, and informed the fellow, that being a consignment, he could make an offer. Minutes later, he had purchased the rifle for $950, which is the listed price for a base Vanguard with molded plastic stock. So by purchasing a rifle with only a few rounds fired, he now had a rifle with a much better stock, that had been actually proven to provide sub moa. Coincidentally, I found a Vanguard RC in 7mmremmag, for a friend on the Prophet River consignment listing, a few years ago, and my friend has been totally satisfied with the rifle. If you know what you are looking for, you can still get much better value with a used firearm.

[shooter55]

I agree - I buy lots of used, so many in excellent shape. You can buy a higher model, lots of guys will leave scopes and rings, slings, cases. You just need to know the value, as I have seen the opposite used, where a new firearm is equal price...

[Tactical Lever]

So many "big game" rifles are carried far more than shot. And the bigger they are, the less they are shot and even carried. Most of them will last several lifetimes.

Recently I ran across an absolutely mint Weatherby Mark V Lasermark for about $1900 with Leupold rings. I think maybe, perhaps a whole box of ammo was fired through it. It was absolutely stunning, and if I didn't recently buy a couple new rifles (well one new, one used, another scope, dies, and components....), I think I would have taken it home. Probably normally closer to $3000 used, and I'm not sure I want to look up the new price...

[stickhunter]

And yet on another forum, someone has just started a thread complaining about the prices of used firearms... you can't please everyone!

I agree with the OP, you just need to be looking out for value, and it's to be found. Obviously not every used rifle is going to be worth the cost, but there are certainly many out there, like the one you found for your friend.

I've purchased the vast majority of my rifles on the used market, and plan to continue to do so. Partly because I like the history of firearms and find more interest in older models, but also because there's often a lot of hidden value in the form of mounted scopes, slings, and other accessories.

A sweet spot for value, if it's your interest, is in higher end custom rifles --- those usually cost a considerable amount to purchase bespoke, but sell for 50c or better on the dollar on the used market.

[Dean2]

Prophet River's consignment has a LOT of nice guns at very good prices. I bought a pristine, 3 year old, Anschutz 1710 off there this spring for considerably less than any listed on AO or CGN. I have posted a couple of threads about it here on AO. Great shooting rifle for about 60% of a new one. There are still lots of good deals, just have to keep an eye out.

http://www.outdoorsmenforum.ca/showthread.php?t=429433

[fordtruckin]

Buddy of mine had the same thing with a 300 RUM. Guy who bought it new couldn’t get it to group worth a darn so sold it for a fraction of what it cost thinking it was a defective rifle. Matt scooped it up for like 300$ looked in the barrel and was a ton of copper fowling. Cleaned it and now shoots 3/8” groups with it.

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by Dean2

Prophet River's consignment has a LOT of nice guns at very good prices. I bought a pristine, 3 year old, Anschutz 1710 off there this spring for considerably less than any listed on AO or CGN. I have posted a couple of threads about it here on AO. Great shooting rifle for about 60% of a new one. There are still lots of good deals, just have to keep an eye out.

http://www.outdoorsmenforum.ca/showthread.php?t=429433

I always check that Prophet River consignment list first, I have purchased several firearms for myself there, and I have found even more for other people there. They sold over 30 firearms for me as well, I had quite the credit built up, but I used almost all of it in store purchases, and paid no consignment fee. It's so much easier selling with Prophet River handling the payments and shipping, and people that won't buy from a private individual, except face to face, will buy the same firearm through Prophet River, because there is no risk of a scam.

[Alberta Bigbore]

I just bought a used, but new in box, original packaging, unfired, never had its bolt in it, Weatherby Mark V Accumark in 7mm rem mag, from a dude on Gunpost , for $1900 shipped, and he even through in a new in packaging Harris Bipod.



Now if i could find a Weatherby Talon in sale in 257wby, or a used low round count one , id be a happy man, before i get one from the store full price.......althought i found a veeeeeery nice used low round count Accuguard in 257wby, then can buy the Talon in 6.5PRC !!!

No problem with used minty rifles here... allows to buy more or spend more on Optics.

[6.5 shooter]

I have only ever bought one rifle new, a CZ in 9.3x62. Used rifles are just fine if you know what to look for. And I have owned a few.

[pikergolf]

I have see more than a few posts on here and other forum where guys will literally say "I couldn't get that rifle to shoot, or it just wasn't right, so I sold it". Vehicles and rifles, get moved for reasons that the buyer is unaware of. I am pretty leery of used, if you get a chance to shoot it or really look it over and know what you are looking at that is different, but buying used without shooting it for me is a no, unless I plan to re-barrel it.

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by pikergolf

I have see more than a few posts on here and other forum where guys will literally say "I couldn't get that rifle to shoot, or it just wasn't right, so I sold it". Vehicles and rifles, get moved for reasons that the buyer is unaware of. I am pretty leery of used, if you get a chance to shoot it or really look it over and know what you are looking at that is different, but buying used without shooting it for me is a no, unless I plan to re-barrel it.

I have yet to purchase a problem firearm used, but I tend to only buy very low round count firearms used. If it shows any wear or abuse, I don't buy it. Not all firearms are sold because of issues, many are sold because the owner bought something new, and isn't using a firearm, so they sell it. Some people never keep a firearm long, they buy it, try it, then sell it, and buy something new. Other times, people like myself downsize and sell off a large number of firearms. And sometimes people just need some extra cash. If the firearm is what I want and it looks as new, or close to it, I will take a chance if the price is right.

[Pathfinder76]

Originally Posted by pikergolf

I have see more than a few posts on here and other forum where guys will literally say "I couldn't get that rifle to shoot, or it just wasn't right, so I sold it". Vehicles and rifles, get moved for reasons that the buyer is unaware of. I am pretty leery of used, if you get a chance to shoot it or really look it over and know what you are looking at that is different, but buying used without shooting it for me is a no, unless I plan to re-barrel it.

99% of the firearms I buy or have bought are used. I’ve yet to find a lemon. I’ve also sold some pretty nice rifles.

[Dean2]

Originally Posted by pikergolf

I have see more than a few posts on here and other forum where guys will literally say "I couldn't get that rifle to shoot, or it just wasn't right, so I sold it". Vehicles and rifles, get moved for reasons that the buyer is unaware of. I am pretty leery of used, if you get a chance to shoot it or really look it over and know what you are looking at that is different, but buying used without shooting it for me is a no, unless I plan to re-barrel it.

I have bought quite a few new guns over the years, four or five of those brand new guns needed to go back to the maker to be fixed. This is over a lot of years but I do remember One JM Marlin that needed a new barrel, one Savage new barrel, one Browning need a whole new gun, could not be fixed, one O/U needed serious action work and one Remington, head spacing. Never bought a used gun that I couldn't get to shoot well without going to extreme measures like a new barrel. There are far more guys that can't shoot than guns that can't. That said, I hand load and I bed the vast majority of my guns, and that has helped a large number of them shoot much better.

I have sold a LOT of guns over the years, never sold one with any kind of defect, if I had a gun with a defect, the defect would have been disclosed, or fixed before being sold. Like a couple of others have said, low round count in great shape usually works out fine.

[58thecat]

So many deals out there on great rifles just gotta stay on top of it a small they go quickly.
Picked up a beauty marlin a few years back half what it was worth that was a safe Queen.
Also if you advertise a rifle below what it’s worth sometimes who ever shows up you can flog a few more above the going price
Had a fella show up to buy a rifle, I put it on the kitchen island, we got to talking and then I brought out a few more....off he went to the bank to pull out some more money and he said I will face the music when I get home

[Tactical Lever]

Originally Posted by Dean2

I have bought quite a few new guns over the years, four or five of those brand new guns needed to go back to the maker to be fixed. This is over a lot of years but I do remember One JM Marlin that needed a new barrel, one Savage new barrel, one Browning need a whole new gun, could not be fixed, one O/U needed serious action work and one Remington, head spacing. Never bought a used gun that I couldn't get to shoot well without going to extreme measures like a new barrel. There are far more guys that can't shoot than guns that can't. That said, I hand load and I bed the vast majority of my guns, and that has helped a large number of them shoot much better.

I have sold a LOT of guns over the years, never sold one with any kind of defect, if I had a gun with a defect, the defect would have been disclosed, or fixed before being sold. Like a couple of others have said, low round count in great shape usually works out fine.

Far more that can't shoot versus can?

Probably!

[W921]

Sometimes the best rifles have alot of miles on them. They used that one gun all their lives because it worked so well. No need to try something else.
I used to also pick up deals on used magnums that kick.
Sometimes broken guns you used to be able to buy for nothing and then fix.
I've had alot of old guns and I was always able to make them shoot accurately with handloads. I kind of like the challenge in it. Antiques are getting harder and more expensive to find but the ones in obsolete calibers you can find in better condition. Example a 1895 Winchester in 35 will be alot cheaper than a 86 in 45.
Only new guns I would want are reproductions of old guns .
I've owned 1000s of guns in my life but I only bought 2 new.

[catnthehat]

I haven't bought a new shotgun in about 25 years , but have bought and sold hundreds of used ones.
I have also fixed a pile of new rifles and shotguns that had small issues from the factory or gunshop, but the owner did not know what was wrong with them- stuff like action and scope base screws in the wrong holes or not tight, barrels bearing on the stock channel, action parts binding , etc.

There is an enormous amount of very fine shotguns and rifles out there on the used market, the key is tp knowxwhat you are looking for and what you are looking at!
Cat

[brewster29]

Originally Posted by Pathfinder76

99% of the firearms I buy or have bought are used. I’ve yet to find a lemon. I’ve also sold some pretty nice rifles.

Ditto. I have picked up some real gems for way less than half their value by being in the right place at the right time. I have bought a couple excellent rifles that “won’t group” and found loose mounts or a filthy barrel. Like Chuck I shoot left handed and my choices are more limited, but that’s probably a good thing!

[IL Bar]

I’ve always bought new guns. My used ones were inherited. But I walked out of my local gun shop the other day with a next to new used semi auto shotgun. I had every intention of buying a new one but had no problem taking this used one cheaper once I saw it had hardly been used and came with the original box and accessories.

[Bushrat]

In my experience new guns can come with as many problems and defects as used ones. Problem guns come right out of the factory gate that way. They don't suddenly develop bad barrels, out of spec machining, headspace problems, crappy triggers, bad bedding, ejection/feeding problems etc. I've had just as many brand new guns with problems as the used ones I've bought.

The vast majority of guns that don't shoot at least good enough for the average hunter is either the scope itself, rings and bases loose, or poor bedding.

[Groundhogger]

Other than rimfires coming out of gopher-rich, dry/dusty/windy places like AB/SK, I always consider used first. In all cases, understanding the asking prices of new/used informs your decision. Condition/rarity/desirability play into values as we all know.

Oddly, I find guns I bought new easier to part with. Shotguns are the easiest (for me) to consider buying used, but I only need so many of those.

I can be a little crazy about how well I treat nice/new guns, so some of the most enjoyable guns for me to use are ones I bought used with blemishes. Feels like the pressure is off to keep them perfect.

Yes, I may need to talk to somebody. lol

Just me? (honest question)

[pikergolf]

Originally Posted by Bushrat

In my experience new guns can come with as many problems and defects as used ones. Problem guns come right out of the factory gate that way. They don't suddenly develop bad barrels, out of spec machining, headspace problems, crappy triggers, bad bedding, ejection/feeding problems etc. I've had just as many brand new guns with problems as the used ones I've bought.

The vast majority of guns that don't shoot at least good enough for the average hunter is either the scope itself, rings and bases loose, or poor bedding.

So when you get a lemon and the manufacturer says the problem gun is well within specs, what happens to that gun, it gets sold. Not speaking to you personally, but lots will just sell it.

[lone wolf]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

I always check that Prophet River consignment list first, I have purchased several firearms for myself there, and I have found even more for other people there. They sold over 30 firearms for me as well, I had quite the credit built up, but I used almost all of it in store purchases, and paid no consignment fee. It's so much easier selling with Prophet River handling the payments and shipping, and people that won't buy from a private individual, except face to face, will buy the same firearm through Prophet River, because there is no risk of a scam.

100% agree, on all points Elk. I make regular trips there to pick up/drop off rifles. I have several on consignment there at the moment and always take store credit as my payout option. Then I get to buy something else shiny The staff are excellent to deal with and if something has to be returned the process is smooth and painless. Always good deals to be had on their consignment site, and as you said you can always make an offer, especially if you notice an item has been sitting for a while

My only issue was explaining why they sent me a Christmas card last year

[LeroyvdH]

My son bought a 25-06 off of townpost a few years ago. For a good price, buddy couldn't get it to group. Who ever mounted the scope should stop doing it. I'll be using it for speed goat this year.

[Tygarian]

As far I'm concerned, I only pick new guns.

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by Tygarian

As far I'm concerned, I only pick new guns.

If you don't know what to look for in used firearms, I can understand that.

[MK2750]

There are two types of buyers; those that already know what to look for in a used rifle and will learn nothing from this thread and those that have little idea what to look for and will learn to actually lose money reading this thread.

The consensus here is that all guns are reasonably accurate and that the used market is a great place to buy.

All guns are not reasonably accurate and your chances of finding a dud greatly increases in the used market.

Can most used guns be made to shoot reasonably accurate?

Certainly, but at what cost? Reloading for a new cartridge is going to cost several hundred dollars and just working up a load for a new rifle can cost several hundred dollars. Experienced reloaders are most often also experienced buyers so see paragraph 1.

Reloading alone is not always the answer. No one is giving away quality mounting hardware. Again, experienced buyers also have a few sets of mounts or rings laying around and a proven scope or two however newbies do not and also don't have the proper tools or expertise to identify rings that need lapping or mounts that need shimmed. A trip to a competent gunsmith, add several hundred for time and materials.

What if scope, hardware and different loads turn out not to be the problem?

Damaged crown...no big deal for an experienced buyer but add another couple of hundred for those with no idea in addition to the money already spent on at the very least a box or three of ammo plus time and money going to the range.

Oh but bedding the rifle will no doubt straighten things up. I have seen bedding jobs botched from so called "gun smiths" let alone a newbie with some JB Weld. Again no big deal for those in the know but another couple of boxes of ammo and more time, materials and labour for those not.

If you are not a tinkerer there is a very good possibility you will be heading down one of these rabbit holes and probably sooner rather than later. Add one dud to your arsenal and you can very easily wipe out any savings from buying used now and in the future.

I saw re-barrel mentioned above. A re-barrel is worth as much as many used rifles. Rifles do not need to be shot out to damage a barrel. In fact a "often carried but low round count" rifle may just as likely been put away wet.

Then there is the prices on used stuff. Most real deals are snapped up by our resident "flippers" and any quality product is priced so close to new that the savings are hardly worth the bother. If the person or dealer is not next door take in to account the time and fuel used to go there or at least the cost of shipping.

Anyway, I have been shooting rifles for more than 50 years. There most certainly is deals to be had on the used market and I have bought and sold many. IF (and yes that is a mighty big IF) you know what you are looking for and able to deal with some issues. Very few people look in their safe and say "There is my most reliable and accurate rifle, I should get rid of that!"

New rifles over the years have become more and more accurate. Many come with an accuracy guaranteed so if you do find a dud you have the option to return it. The vast majority however are exceptionally accurate right down to the lowly Savage Axis and Ruger American.

Manufacturers are very aware of the law and the potential for financial ruin if a dangerous rifle leaves the plant. It is very unlikely to pick up an unsafe new rifle.

If you are new to firearms, I would strongly recommend buying new. The cost of a rifle is very small compared to even the fuel used to go hunting or shooting over the years. Quality foot ware is several hundred dollars and lasts a few years. A quality rifle lasts for generations. And, you are not saving the cost of the rifle, you are saving likely less than 20-30%, peanuts when looking at the big picture.

The exception to this would be buying from a trusted friend or family member or purchasing with a trusted friend or family member that knows firearms.

[Bushrat]

Originally Posted by pikergolf

So when you get a lemon and the manufacturer says the problem gun is well within specs, what happens to that gun, it gets sold. Not speaking to you personally, but lots will just sell it.

Lots sell them, just like people sell their lemon cars, lawn mowers or whatever. If I sell them they are priced accordingly and I end up taking a hit.

[stob]

MK2750 pretty much hits the nail on the head... a great trigger and glass increases your accuracy. As does the rifht ammo mix....also, the ability to shoot(and everything that goes with this)...

[elkhunter11]

The most common issue that I see with rifles that don't shoot, are loose fasteners, either action or scope mounts. As surprising as it is, some people will not even check fasteners, before condemning a rifle and getting rid of it. The repair in this case, costs a little time.
If the rifle is older or well used, the issue is often either a badly fouled barrel, or there is oil or lube in the bedding area. Most people don't even how how to clean a barrel properly, to remove carbon and copper. And some people spray a lube or preservative directly on the barreled action, and it flows into the bedding areas. Again, both issues are resolved with some time, and some cleaning solvents/tooling , that a person should already have.
Then I see issues like damaged crowns, which do cost a little more to have professionally repaired, but a damaged crown is easily seen by someone that knows what to look for.
Then I see the odd rusty barrel, from the rifle being left in a damp place with no corrosion inhibitor in the barrel. That is an issue that can get very expensive, but if you know what to look for, it is easily seen.
Then there is the barrel with severe throat erosion, that isn't always easy to see without a bore scope, but it is also expensive.
Lastly is the rifle with a defect from the factory, either a bad barrel, or badly cut chamber, very difficult to see, and expensive to repair.
Then there are the supposed rifle issues, that are not really rifle issues at all, like defective scope, or a rifle that is a little more fussy, that doesn't like the one or two loads that someone tried and then gave up.

When it comes right down to it, yes there are more possible risks buying used, but if you know what to look for, you can still save a lot on a used rifle. If you don't know what to look for, buy new, and buy from a business that will help you deal with the manufacturer, or that will deal with the manufacturer themselves. If you buy from Cabelas, you are on your own, if you buy from Prophet River, they will work with you to resolve an issue.