Mule VS. Whitetail

[WillyOneStyle]

Hello forum,
A friend of mine and I had a discussion about whitetail aggression toward mule deer. Al local author has written some articles (we are red deer area) about how there used to be predominantly mule deer in our region and that whitetails are moving in and driving them out.

I assumed that the whitetail numbers increased, they expanded their territory and brought with them an expanding number of predators. I, again, assume that the predators have an easier time with the mule deer than the white tails, consequently more white tails, less mule deer.

My friend didn't completely disagree with my unsubstantiated theory. He did, however, say he figured whitetails could be aggressive to the mule deer. He figured they actually physically drive the mulies out.

What do you folks think? have you seen white tails strong-arming mule deer or vice verca?
Willy

[C Taylor]

Our area has both. I think it's more on what type of terrain is around. Some areas I only see whitetails others only muleys. Some areas will have both. I think coyotes will go after whitetail more than muleys just because the whitetail are a bit smaller.

[Red Bullets]

Originally Posted by WillyOneStyle

Hello forum,
A friend of mine and I had a discussion about whitetail aggression toward mule deer. Al local author has written some articles (we are red deer area) about how there used to be predominantly mule deer in our region and that whitetails are moving in and driving them out.

I assumed that the whitetail numbers increased, they expanded their territory and brought with them an expanding number of predators. I, again, assume that the predators have an easier time with the mule deer than the white tails, consequently more white tails, less mule deer.

My friend didn't completely disagree with my unsubstantiated theory. He did, however, say he figured whitetails could be aggressive to the mule deer. He figured they actually physically drive the mulies out.

What do you folks think? have you seen white tails strong-arming mule deer or vice verca?
Willy

There is the theory that either mulies and whitetails push each other out of territories. Whether its mulies pushing whities or vice versa....I am not so sure ... because I do know of places where there are both types of deer co-existing in the same areas. They both have different habits but can live on the same ground. Every year both are there.

And yup, whitetail numbers have increased in North America. 100 years ago there were only a million in North America. Now there are 20million+. Whitetails were very uncommon here (Alberta) 150 years ago.

Mule deer populations have declined because of the ease of hunting them when there were open seasons, and the plow and the fence have both affected populations big time too. Both species of deer can be competing for the same territories and some mulies have been displaced over decades.

Close to 50 years ago I remember seeing mule deer migrating to their wintering grounds enmass. They were walking single file across an open plain(pasture), southbound, and the line was maybe a half mile long. At least 300+ animals in all. A person would be lucky to see 50 mulies together now.
And now, in more recent years I have seen 130 whitetails wintering in the same field the mulies had migrated thru. This migration I mention took place just south of pigeon lake.

[smith88]

Originally Posted by C Taylor

Our area has both. I think it's more on what type of terrain is around. Some areas I only see whitetails others only muleys. Some areas will have both. I think coyotes will go after whitetail more than muleys just because the whitetail are a bit smaller.

Coyotes are much harder on mule deer fawns than on whitetail fawns. In my area, I have seen mule deer walk up and sniff a whitetails and vice versa.

[waterninja]

Interesting. I for one would put my money on the big mulie in that corner as opposed to the smaller whitetail in the other corner.
I also wonder why the two species don't "interbreed".

[MAC]

I cant remember where I read this but it seems to make some sense and that it was Mule deer are much less tolerant. So when the Whitetail move in the muleys leave.

Originally Posted by waterninja

Interesting. I for one would put my money on the big mulie in that corner as opposed to the smaller whitetail in the other corner.
I also wonder why the two species don't "interbreed".

They do occasionally, its not normally apparent as the offspring will have a dominant side. Check the metatarsal gland on the inside leg. Whitetail have a 1" metatarsal and mule deer have a 3" metatarsal, hybrid will split the difference about 2" to 2 1/2" its not exact unless you check DNA.
I was also told most Hybrids are Whitetail buck and mule doe breeding as the buck can catch a mule doe however a Mule buck has a hard time catching a whitetail doe.

[walking buffalo]

Originally Posted by waterninja

Interesting. I for one would put my money on the big mulie in that corner as opposed to the smaller whitetail in the other corner.
I also wonder why the two species don't "interbreed".

Competition and aggressiveness in this case is not about physical intimidation or strength.


Whitetails DO displace Mule deer due to many factors. Foremost tends to be their adaptability to human influenced environmental changes. They simply can co-exist and survive in a heavily human dominated landscape better than Mule deer do.

Whitetails also outcompete Mule Deer in reproductive abilities. They simply make babies faster and outcompete MD through numbers. The land will only support a finite number of deer and as WT populations increase, MD populations tend to decrease.

WT and MD will co-exist in the same areas, but they do not live together. Usually they will bed and feed separately. When WT are occupying an area, that excludes the MD, and when there are more WT than MD the MD are pushed to other areas.

WT can also facilitate a higher predator mortality on MD in most landscapes. Adult WT are better adapted to escaped predators in a typical farmland setting, plowed smooth fields with their running style. The stotting style of MD is more effective in broken and steep terrain for escaping predators. In much of todays agricultural landscape WT will populate an area faster than MD and then become less susceptible to predation, except for in those hills.

Finally, MD and WT do crossbreed, but it is usually a Male WT breeding a MD doe due to their cursing style of rutting behavior. Such MWTxFMD crossbreeding further decreased the MD population as they are not producing viable MD offspring. The offspring tend to be highly susceptible to predation due to being physically incapable to truly stot like a MD or run like a WT.


Those interested in this topic can read up on Valerius Geist's writings.

[Sitkaspruce]

This guy was the dominate buck and he pushed all the whitetails around every night. Some nights he slept on the bait and took up a couple hundred pictures.......



I have seen mulies chase whitetails off the field and the reverse happen.

Cheers

SS

[walking buffalo]

SS, those are some well fed bucks!


Do you have any better pics of the MD's tail? Even better, any clear pictures of the tarsal glands?

From what I can see the MD tail looks longer than normal and has more than an average amount of brown hair running down the top. You know what I'm thinking.....

[WillyOneStyle]

Thanks for all of the input folks. I learned a fair bit about mule and white tail deer in a small amount of time.

On a completely different note, yesterday I saw a mule buck sitting like a dog at the side of the road. Just north of the crowsnest pass on 22, maybe 40 km. Sitting on it's haunches, front legs straight. I have never seen that before.

[Sitkaspruce]

Originally Posted by walking buffalo

SS, those are some well fed bucks!


Do you have any better pics of the MD's tail? Even better, any clear pictures of the tarsal glands?

From what I can see the MD tail looks longer than normal and has more than an average amount of brown hair running down the top. You know what I'm thinking.....

Nope, muley all the way. I have him growing up this last year.







Video of him, click on the picture



He was nocturnal all season long, never saw him. The whitetail left after a while as a bigger one moved in, but the muley was still the big boy and he was not that big.

Oh, and Walking Buffalo, I'm from BC, where baiting is allowed

Cheers

SS

[antlerguy]

The first mature WT I took was off the back of a Muley doe. There was a monster muley with his nine does, and we were just sitting and watching as no muley tag. They were mulling around when out comes a wt. He looked great and I took him as he mounted the muley doe. He was a good deer as he had a great left side ( the one I could see) but his right was just a heavy main beam with a bunch off half inch points. When that wt came out he pushed the way bigger md off his girls in about 30 seconds. He was way more pushy than the bigger md.

[Haris001]

I like your theory, I'd like to see a fight between a mulie and whitey