How many draw tags get awarded and never purchased

[drake]

Does anyone have the stats or know where to look?....

Should we move towards a system where mandatory tag purchase is required within a reasonable period of time or the tag gets redrawn?

[Lefty-Canuck]

They can hardly administer the current system.

While it is a great idea. People can hardly wrap heads around this system!

LC

[NBFK]

I drew a coveted mule deer doe tag in a far away zone I've never hunted. I will make a few posts about not looking for a honey hole but a good spot and then never go. Can you mark me down for one?

[MathewsZ7]

Im 100% for tag cost being automatically billed as soon as you are drawn.

And ive looked for the stats but so far have come up empty handed.

[Okotokian]

Originally Posted by drake

Does anyone have the stats or know where to look?....

Should we move towards a system where mandatory tag purchase is required within a reasonable period of time or the tag gets redrawn?

Now data on would solve a lot of bickering. According to some here, abuse is rampant, though how they would know is beyond me.

The second thing to consider however, is whethe ESRD already adjusts for any situations where someone draws but then doesn't purchase. Let me explain. Let's say ESRD knows there is a 20% draw but no purchase rate. In a particular WMU they determine that 80 animals can be harvested. Knowing the non-purchase rate, they set the draw at 100 animals, knowing aprocximtely 20 of the available tags won't be purchased, leaving the 80 they originally intended to be harvested. IF they are already doing this, then forcing people to purchase a license is pointless, and may in fact decrease hunting opportunities for others in cases where the person now has to purchase a license but still doesn't hunt it or whatever reason.

[Roughneck Country]

Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck

While it is a great idea. People can hardly wrap heads around this system!

LC

speak for yourself I don't find our draw system difficult to understand at all

[MathewsZ7]

Originally Posted by Roughneck Country

speak for yourself I don't find our draw system difficult to understand at all

Was very easy this year to apply!

[walking buffalo]

Originally Posted by drake

Does anyone have the stats or know where to look?....

Should we move towards a system where mandatory tag purchase is required within a reasonable period of time or the tag gets redrawn?

Yes.

I think so. Along with having to purchase a Wildlife Certificate BEFORE entering the draws.


To answer your title question, 18% of draw licences were not purchased in 2012.


These unpurchased licences are applied towards the success rate for that particular draw. Unpurhased licences = lower success rate = MORE licences issued to achieve Allowable Harvest.

[Roughneck Country]

Originally Posted by walking buffalo

Yes.

I think so. Along with having to purchase a Wildlife Certificate BEFORE entering the draws.


To answer your title question, 18% of draw licences were not purchased in 2012.


These unpurchased licences are applied towards the success rate for that particular draw. Unpurhased licences = lower success rate = MORE licences issued to achieve Allowable Harvest.

Absoluty should have to purchase the WIN before the draw IMO.

wow 18% were not purchased!!!! Now thats a lot of wasted opportunity!

[Lefty-Canuck]

Originally Posted by Roughneck Country

speak for yourself I don't find our draw system difficult to understand at all

LOL.... I have no issues with it, but judging by some of the threads here there are some who have lots of issues...

LC

[walking buffalo]

Originally Posted by Roughneck Country

Absoluty should have to purchase the WIN before the draw IMO.

wow 18% were not purchased!!!! Now thats a lot of wasted opportunity!

Yes, and no.

A high number of un-purchased licences INCREASES the future opportunity through higher licence numbers issued due to low success rates.

[pikeslayer22]

Originally Posted by walking buffalo

Yes, and no.

A high number of un-purchased licences INCREASES the future opportunity through higher licence numbers issued due to low success rates.

Do they give more out for the lottery tags also?????? Once you are drawn the cost of the tag should be charged ASAP...i know it used to be this way and why it changed is beyond me...Pretty simple if you don't want to or have doubts about being able to hunt the tag don't apply

[greywolf]

Originally Posted by Okotokian

Now data on would solve a lot of bickering. According to some here, abuse is rampant, though how they would know is beyond me.

The second thing to consider however, is whethe ESRD already adjusts for any situations where someone draws but then doesn't purchase. Let me explain. Let's say ESRD knows there is a 20% draw but no purchase rate. In a particular WMU they determine that 80 animals can be harvested. Knowing the non-purchase rate, they set the draw at 100 animals, knowing aprocximtely 20 of the available tags won't be purchased, leaving the 80 they originally intended to be harvested. IF they are already doing this, then forcing people to purchase a license is pointless, and may in fact decrease hunting opportunities for others in cases where the person now has to purchase a license but still doesn't hunt it or whatever reason.

Your on to something here Oko,
ESRD allocates the number of tags required to achieve management harvests. It may not be a fool proof system, but it should alleviate this issue somewhat.

[walking buffalo]

Originally Posted by pikeslayer22

Do they give more out for the lottery tags also?????? Once you are drawn the cost of the tag should be charged ASAP...i know it used to be this way and why it changed is beyond me...Pretty simple if you don't want to or have doubts about being able to hunt the tag don't apply

Well, ESRD should if the success rate is applied. However there can be other factors involved in deciding how many licences to issue, such as hunter density.

I can't recall Alberta ever charging for a licence once a person is drawn.
Maybe you were dreaming, or maybe I am?

[HyperMOA]

Originally Posted by Okotokian

Now data on would solve a lot of bickering. According to some here, abuse is rampant, though how they would know is beyond me.

The second thing to consider however, is whethe ESRD already adjusts for any situations where someone draws but then doesn't purchase. Let me explain. Let's say ESRD knows there is a 20% draw but no purchase rate. In a particular WMU they determine that 80 animals can be harvested. Knowing the non-purchase rate, they set the draw at 100 animals, knowing aprocximtely 20 of the available tags won't be purchased, leaving the 80 they originally intended to be harvested. IF they are already doing this, then forcing people to purchase a license is pointless, and may in fact decrease hunting opportunities for others in cases where the person now has to purchase a license but still doesn't hunt it or whatever reason.

While hunting bison the F&W officer that registered my animal told me precisely what you just said. They know roughly the harvest rate(with bison they know exactly), plus the amount of unpurchased tags and they allow for that while calculating the number of tags.

[greywolf]

http://www.outdoorsmenforum.ca/attac...3&d=1406132386
Look at WMU 212 Antlerless elk, pretty obvious whats going on there...
I'm also surprised at 438 Trophy Sheep numbers.

[Roughneck Country]

I would love to see the model SRD uses to figure this out. Somehow I think there is a lot more of the old thumb in the wind than they care to admitt to.

[Roughneck Country]

Originally Posted by greywolf

http://www.outdoorsmenforum.ca/attac...3&d=1406132386
Look at WMU 212 Antlerless elk, pretty obvious whats going on there...
I'm also surprised at 438 Trophy Sheep numbers.

wow 438 and 410 sheep surprises me, those tags should have deff been up for grabs if the winners didnt buy them!

[bullgetter]

Who cares if they bought the tag or not. They stood in line and waited to get drawn. Their loss if they couldnt be bothered to go hunt. Alot can happen in life to change peoples plans.
As for the sheep tags I think alot of them probably thought awesome I got a sheep draw! Then they found out they would have to climb a mountain and said screw it i'm not going.

[Sled Ed]

Manitoba always made you pay for tag up front if not drawn the money was reimbursed

[MathewsZ7]

Originally Posted by HyperMOA

While hunting bison the F&W officer that registered my animal told me precisely what you just said. They know roughly the harvest rate(with bison they know exactly), plus the amount of unpurchased tags and they allow for that while calculating the number of tags.

If people actually dedicated themselves to hunts they wouldnt have to factor this in. Only the success rates. Would be alot easier I would think than trying to guess how many wont buy their tag that year!!

How to they predict that that season they dont draw all guys that will hunt it? That would end in over harvest wouldnt it?

[deercamp]

Originally Posted by Roughneck Country

I would love to see the model SRD uses to figure this out. Somehow I think there is a lot more of the old thumb in the wind than they care to admitt to.

Not much of a model to be looked at.. Those are all hard numbers of available licenses and percentage purchased. Tags available are adjusted accordingly. And based on estimated or counted animals in a unit.

[HyperMOA]

Originally Posted by MathewsZ7

If people actually dedicated themselves to hunts they wouldnt have to factor this in. Only the success rates. Would be alot easier I would think than trying to guess how many wont buy their tag that year!!

How to they predict that that season they dont draw all guys that will hunt it? That would end in over harvest wouldnt it?

Yes it could, or a hard winter, or high vehicle collision mortality, or high predation, or drought could wipe out their food sources, or . . . . That is why they survey and assess herd numbers and decide on proper tag numbers. They can also have a very poor hunter harvest and herd sizes can increase significantly year to year.

[MathewsZ7]

Originally Posted by HyperMOA

Yes it could, or a hard winter, or high vehicle collision mortality, or high predation, or drought could wipe out their food sources, or . . . . That is why they survey and assess herd numbers and decide on proper tag numbers. They can also have a very poor hunter harvest and herd sizes can increase significantly year to year.

Exactly so why have to factor in how many guys are wasting their time and applying for tags they aren't going to use?? They do not survey and assess all wildlife every year. Most occasions the set management plans for 5 or so many years then reevaluate and do counts. So why have to guess how many guys they are going to have hunting or how many tags they are going to sell and have money they will have for future studies and such. Tag profits should be a known factor and harvests should be set on what they want to kill by only factoring in hunter numbers not the 18% of guys that dont even buy the tag. 2-5% not buying a limited entry draw tag due to health, family or work commitment changes would be reasonable. 18% is really a slap in the face to management and other sportsmen and women.

[Pathfinder76]

Originally Posted by Roughneck Country

Absoluty should have to purchase the WIN before the draw IMO.

wow 18% were not purchased!!!! Now thats a lot of wasted opportunity!

They were probably too expensive.

[Roughneck Country]

Originally Posted by deercamp

Not much of a model to be looked at.. Those are all hard numbers of available licenses and percentage purchased. Tags available are adjusted accordingly. And based on estimated or counted animals in a unit.

There has to be a model, population counts, ave hunter success, number of people who don't buy the licence would all be factors in the calculation. I would just be curious how they calculate the tag numbers for the current year.

[drake]

It is the interest of government revenue to have all available tags purchased. As it stands now they are leaving 18% on the table

[mikdundee]

Just spitballin' here.

What about those that get drawn for a tag but find out afterwards (for whatever reason) that they won't be able to hunt that animal. Allow them to cancel their draw for the year, return to their original priority (prior to the draw application), and then that tag gets 're-drawn' so to speak.

Or....as soon as you get drawn, you get an email "do you accept" this tag, if yes, then give your cc and pay the piper, if not, then it goes back in to the pool.

Mik

[shooter]

I think that unless there are medical or unforeseen circumstances that draw is that persons to do what they wish.

The license to be purchased by said date or forfeited and returned to a pool of under-subscribed quota. Points accumulated lost either way.

Also would be great if the tag and licence got mailed out automatically after payment.

[Hooter]

The numbers for 410 sheep, 438 sheep, and goat surprise me. I would have expected all of these to be 100%, in particular 438 sheep which was only 9/15 (60%)! Unreal..... I think you should have to pay as soon as your drawn. Use it or no as you chooset, but at least the money has been collected and (hopefully) used to better our wildlife.