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  #151  
Old 09-22-2011, 07:41 PM
Justin.C Justin.C is offline
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Originally Posted by cutthroat666 View Post
Justin - I can only assume you mean Shawn Carlock (not Cardlock). Apparently I know who he is.

Please reread my post - I don't say "what I feel they are capable of" - I say what "we" feel they are capable of. I talk with my hunting partners about their feelings about the laws, regulations, and their capabilities as well as mine before we hunt together. If I see something I don't like while hunting together I will discuss it with that person and I expect they would do the same with me. If after that we are still on a different page - we won't hunt together anymore. Otherwise - I'm glad you agree with my post.

BTW - I would likely allow Carlock to be part of my hunting party - but I don't know him well enough to say.

cutthroat
Thanks for clearing that up. I miss understood you.I am sorry. I just dont like how the Op states what he thinks we all should do. Even thought 75% of people should probably not shoot past 40 yards as they have no real idea how to do past that... Like stated in long range hunting in the gun thread. Do what you are confident in. Do not just fling bullets or arrows.That is wrong....
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  #152  
Old 12-03-2011, 12:24 PM
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Originally Posted by packhuntr View Post
There is only one reason for long shots with any bow, and that is in a bad situation, ie: wounded animal that you cant get in on. That is fact, not opinion, and any archer will tell you it. Anyone who argues different isnt even worth the time to listen to. You turn your back to them and walk away. I practice long for one reason and one reason only,,, because Im not perfect, and mistakes can and will happen, even when doing it properly and at close ranges. Anyone taking long shots, airing out arrows should have thier bows taken away, cut in half, and given back to them in 2 pieces.
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  #153  
Old 12-03-2011, 06:34 PM
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Really you are of the opinion that you can tell people how to hunt? What would you say to a person that thinks hunting is unethical period? That you should not even take the chance at 5 yards?
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  #154  
Old 12-05-2011, 08:35 PM
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This post is not meant to inflame anyone's interpretation of "ethics", but more to clarify some misconceptions as to the ability of an arrow to do the job adequately at longer distances. No, I'm not saying that long-distance shots like this are the "norm", but, in this case, the conditions were perfect and, the the buck was broadside. The shot was 93yards. Shooting a Bowtech 80# Guardian, and a NAP Spitfire, the shot was a total pass-through [just for those who think that an arrow doesn't have enough steam left @ 93yds].
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  #155  
Old 12-17-2011, 08:58 PM
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Originally Posted by catnthehat View Post
The problem isn't really how fast , but actually how long it takes the arrow to get there!
The slowest deer in the world is faster than the fastest bow.

Cat
LOL Cat sounds like you have had a few string jumpers.

Ethics is in the eye of the beholder!!! If your not comfortable shooting that far (as i am not comfortable that far out) does not mean someone else is wrong for doing it. But then again that is them and not me.

Some miss some have to track a fair distance and some never find their prey (just like firearms hunting)

Guys need to stop worring about how the other guy hunts (as long as its withn the laws)and worry about filln his own frezeer

AL
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  #156  
Old 12-18-2011, 10:11 AM
HIBACKPACKER HIBACKPACKER is offline
 
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Back in the day we practiced the longer ranges on the 3-D courses. Anyone that was or still a member of the Calgary Archers will be able to remember the long shots of over a 100 yard. Many of our shoot offs were done at 100 yards. I also shot a Mule Deer Buck at 80 meters and double lunged him. He did not jump the string! He did jump and kick out and ran about 30 yards to his death bed. My hunting bow set up was an 80lb draw PSE special order. Stay within your shooting abilities. Was it right, well, I ranged him, he had cleared the brush and no wind. I had made that shot, out on the range hundreds of time. I was very confident in my shooting abilities. Good for him and excellent shooting
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  #157  
Old 12-18-2011, 01:33 PM
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Originally Posted by nicholal View Post
LOL Cat sounds like you have had a few string jumpers.

Ethics is in the eye of the beholder!!! If your not comfortable shooting that far (as i am not comfortable that far out) does not mean someone else is wrong for doing it. But then again that is them and not me.

Some miss some have to track a fair distance and some never find their prey (just like firearms hunting)

Guys need to stop worring about how the other guy hunts (as long as its withn the laws)and worry about filln his own frezeer

AL
Never had one jump a string, no.
My long bow is quiet enough that a deer at 12 yards and closer do not flinch at the sound of the string.
I do know how slow my arrows fly however, and know how fast deer can be.
It's the same as long range rifle hunting, many of the preferred cartridges that people talk about being acceptable have a time of flight of 1.3 seconds or better at 1,000 yards.
Reduce it down to bow and arrow speeds and you get the picture.
An archer must be VERY accomplished at long range hunting , and be prepared for the consequences .
Cat
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Last edited by catnthehat; 12-18-2011 at 01:40 PM.
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  #158  
Old 12-18-2011, 01:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Nait Hadya View Post
it depends upon his setup. approximately 260 fps at 100 yards which is much faster than most recurves and a lot of compounds. kenetic energy is still sufficient. even at 117 meters it would still have approx 250 fps much more than any flat bow? time to the target may be 2 seconds and resting animal unspoked by the sound of the shot would probably knot know what hit him. it would be unkind to lump everyones archery skills into a melting pot and reduce it to the lowest common denominator. suffice to say, there are some that are just that good.
Recurves at long range never entered my mind, I was simply stating that my recurves and long bows are NOT decent long range archery equipment - even though Howard Hill did shot an elk and a crazy distance .
Id a person wanted to get into long range shooting theye would certainly have to cut down the time of flight, and the only way to do that would be with a very fast compound.
Cat
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  #159  
Old 12-18-2011, 03:21 PM
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Thats a game of splitting some pretty fine hairs Cat, even with a fast compound and you know it. Its so iffy on so many levels its unreal. I shake my head at anyone that condones these things with any bow. Its bad enough guys are marching around hydraulic'ing MEAT tags at long ranges, by choice, with rifles, cause we all know, for sure its worth risking ruining half the edible meat on an antelope doe just for the sake of stepping it back to hold a sh*t load of kentucky, just to say we did it. Its embarrasing. Now we have these ying yangs running around thinking they are chuck norris with a bloody bow, including about anything else these guys can get to propell something, shopping around for chances to play with lives at long range.
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  #160  
Old 12-18-2011, 04:20 PM
Justin.C Justin.C is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by packhuntr View Post
Thats a game of splitting some pretty fine hairs Cat, even with a fast compound and you know it. Its so iffy on so many levels its unreal. I shake my head at anyone that condones these things with any bow. Its bad enough guys are marching around hydraulic'ing MEAT tags at long ranges, by choice, with rifles, cause we all know, for sure its worth risking ruining half the edible meat on an antelope doe just for the sake of stepping it back to hold a sh*t load of kentucky, just to say we did it. Its embarrasing. Now we have these ying yangs running around thinking they are chuck norris with a bloody bow, including about anything else these guys can get to propell something, shopping around for chances to play with lives at long range.
Hey pack zip you lip about my antelope... I never waisted 1 oz of meat... I am in agreeance that 98% of people should not be shooting past 40 yards let alone these ranges.... I actually am going back to the old way of hunting...No more long bombers period unless it is to put down a wounded animal. To many animals running around this year with arrows sticking out of them... 10 to be exact that I saw in the bowzone all the way dow to the #3 hiway.Also wounded with rifles I say 2 or 3 I cant remember. WAY TO MANY PERIOD........
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  #161  
Old 12-18-2011, 05:12 PM
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Originally Posted by packhuntr View Post
Thats a game of splitting some pretty fine hairs Cat, even with a fast compound and you know it. Its so iffy on so many levels its unreal. I shake my head at anyone that condones these things with any bow. Its bad enough guys are marching around hydraulic'ing MEAT tags at long ranges, by choice, with rifles, cause we all know, for sure its worth risking ruining half the edible meat on an antelope doe just for the sake of stepping it back to hold a sh*t load of kentucky, just to say we did it. Its embarrasing. Now we have these ying yangs running around thinking they are chuck norris with a bloody bow, including about anything else these guys can get to propell something, shopping around for chances to play with lives at long range.
Not trying to split hairs at all packhuntr, simply stating that many archers do not know the ramifications of a long distance shot and are actually not
accomplished enough to make them , same as many long distance rifle hunters.
Cat
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  #162  
Old 12-18-2011, 05:49 PM
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Well i know one thing and that is at 60 yards you better be a very experience archery shooter if your going to start flinging arrows, theres alot of time to duck ,move , turn or what have you.
I flew to argentina on a trophy red stag hunt a couple years ago with momma running the camera and i hunted my arse off, finally on the last day i had a 60 yard shot on a red stag and i took it, Hit him a little to far back and couldnt find him that day. I went back to the lodge ,Payed my 3500$ trophy fee and flew home.

Made me absoltuly sick to my stomach to not find the animal and to pay that large amount of money for nothing. Luckily for me the very next day i got home they found my stag and i got him at home now.
But from that day on i swore i would never shoot that range again unless i practiced my tail off, so thats what i did, i shot and shot at 60 till i was grouping awsome, Went on my shiras moose hunt and bingo 56 yards i pinholed him.

These are big animals with huge vitals , i am very experienced with the bow and i would not take a 60 yard shot on a little antelope.There is just too many factors on a very little animal.





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  #163  
Old 12-19-2011, 03:28 PM
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[QUOTE=z1_bam;1190203]Really you are of the opinion that you can tell people how to hunt? What would you say to a person that thinks hunting is unethical period? That you should not even take the chance at 5 yards?[
I'm of the opinion that I can have my opinion. If you don't think I'm entitled to it pm me & we can meet for a beer. * I don't tell people how to hunt but that doesn't mean I'm barred from being disgusted & embarrassed *being lumped in the same 'bowhunter' group. I can ace a 90 yd shot on my 3d deer target 8 outta 10 times after my first shot to find windage, no bs. I've had the same bow since 2006 and I've killed allot of animals w her. I shot a couple animals at sixty+ and all went well. Then it happened..... I choose not to shoot long because I know the cost. *Go ahead and shoot long, just know *YOU WILL AT SOME POINT CRITICALLY WOUND an animal & not recover it. Please Do us all a favour& do not push this ideology onto the hunters of tomorrow, that starts with not publicly arguing on this forum for young archers to read and emulate. Be a better hunter-that means NOT shooting at times, get closer, be more patient.*
*
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  #164  
Old 12-19-2011, 03:46 PM
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Default Whoa.. this thread got dug up again...

Bowtech and others...

You guys are arguing pretty much was I was attempting to say in my own hamfisted way.

JustinC..... I'm sorry your seeing more stuck deer out there. Now you and I are of similar experience... as i've said b4... I've lost acces to areas because owners are seeing deer that are walking stuck wounded... and thats pretty bad stuff!!! Yea, it wasn't me, but I suffered for what others have done. If only you knew how prime the area I used to bow hunt wai/is.... it makes me cringe. Ya, I can still rfle hunt it, but thats a totally different hunting experience.... way different set of goals/challenges and pleasures. Rifle hunting here is no challenge for me and probably most AO members deer or elk!

I won't do a 40 yard shot anymore. Yup my bow could easily whack to 60+ and I stump and target out to that range (im pie plate size accurate at 45-50... which isnt great i guess)... Through experience, I recognise that theres too many factors that I just can;t control.

AND I owe it to my other 'archer brothers' out there not to contribute to what I see is a big big and growing problem.

I gotta regulate my own behaviours.

I encourage other archers ro regulate theirs.. your actions affect me and others, so we gotta be responsible together.



bd

3 days till fight to Caymans!!! whoooo!!
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  #165  
Old 12-19-2011, 05:34 PM
Justin.C Justin.C is offline
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Ya it was a real bad year for animals. I am not going to be taking anymore passed 60 anymore. I have made a few humdingers. I just agree there are wa to many variables at extend ranges. I have herd way to many times I hit him right behind the shoulder @ 60+ yards and hallowed deer for2 days. He'll with that. I will leave that for a few I know. I killed everything this year under that so I can do it again next year.
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Originally Posted by bessiedog View Post
Bowtech and others...

You guys are arguing pretty much was I was attempting to say in my own hamfisted way.

JustinC..... I'm sorry your seeing more stuck deer out there. Now you and I are of similar experience... as i've said b4... I've lost acces to areas because owners are seeing deer that are walking stuck wounded... and thats pretty bad stuff!!! Yea, it wasn't me, but I suffered for what others have done. If only you knew how prime the area I used to bow hunt wai/is.... it makes me cringe. Ya, I can still rfle hunt it, but thats a totally different hunting experience.... way different set of goals/challenges and pleasures. Rifle hunting here is no challenge for me and probably most AO members deer or elk!

I won't do a 40 yard shot anymore. Yup my bow could easily whack to 60+ and I stump and target out to that range (im pie plate size accurate at 45-50... which isnt great i guess)... Through experience, I recognise that theres too many factors that I just can;t control.

AND I owe it to my other 'archer brothers' out there not to contribute to what I see is a big big and growing problem.

I gotta regulate my own behaviours.

I encourage other archers ro regulate theirs.. your actions affect me and others, so we gotta be responsible together.



bd

3 days till fight to Caymans!!! whoooo!!
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  #166  
Old 12-20-2011, 10:19 PM
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Originally Posted by bowtech3006 View Post
I'm of the opinion that I can have my opinion....* I don't tell people how to hunt...
*
Sorry I assumed you were telling people how to hunt by agreeing with the OP that there is a definite limit to what is an ethical shot. I do agree with the self regulation however, an ethical one should be where you are reasonably assured of a clean kill.
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  #167  
Old 12-28-2011, 05:28 AM
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I've killed more deer at 70 yrds than I missed at 3 yrds!
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  #168  
Old 12-28-2011, 05:44 AM
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An ethical kill varies from 100yrds to 1000yrds.

So many variables and so many calibers...shot through so many different people..how can you say whats ethical and what's not?????
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  #169  
Old 12-28-2011, 01:06 PM
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Do you guys realize that Olympic archery is always shot at 70 yards? Now I do not know if the client was a olympian but i had a former Olympic Medalist (Muriel Cunningham) as my archery coach when I was first learing to shoot. I can certainly tell you that if she wanted to drop a deer at 120 yards it would have not been a prob. I am quite confident to 60 yards and have my 5th pin set for 60. On calm day with a clear shot I would not hesitate to shoot an animal at 70. But my targets that I shoot are at 50 and 60 yards all the time.
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  #170  
Old 12-28-2011, 04:09 PM
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Olympic archery had nothing to do with hunting, they use super light arrows that barely stick into the target and the targets don't move! It's so damned easy for a little mistake to turn into a disaster at long distances, it's just not worth it. Take your time and get closer that's all it takes.
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  #171  
Old 07-01-2012, 10:53 PM
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i think your a moron for even bringing this subject up. who are you to decide what the next guy in line can or cannot do, or what is ethical or un ethical.
i can shoot a coffee cup group out to 70 yards does this mean im going to take that shot on an animal? your god damn right, if conditions are good. you can go ahead and say it cant or it shouldnt be done, but i think the only thing holding you back is your just not good enough to make a long yard shot.
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  #172  
Old 07-01-2012, 11:17 PM
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Originally Posted by marc*A* View Post
i think your a moron for even bringing this subject up. who are you to decide what the next guy in line can or cannot do, or what is ethical or un ethical.
i can shoot a coffee cup group out to 70 yards does this mean im going to take that shot on an animal? your god damn right, if conditions are good. you can go ahead and say it cant or it shouldnt be done, but i think the only thing holding you back is your just not good enough to make a long yard shot.
6 months and three days later Marc A had thought about this thread enough and said dam you all, I will respond.
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  #173  
Old 07-01-2012, 11:30 PM
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6 months and three days later Marc A had thought about this thread enough and said dam you all, I will respond.
bahaha
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  #174  
Old 07-01-2012, 11:50 PM
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Here is a pass through you can see for yourself at 62 yards on a wild hog..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iuB_7CyqbE8
hmmm hide is how thick on deer

massive tramma = death

and another watch it drop
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NLMaU...eature=related

David

Last edited by Speckle55; 07-02-2012 at 12:19 AM.
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  #175  
Old 07-02-2012, 12:47 AM
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here's a 100 yard kill shot ,,,not a pass through but massive tramma and the moment it runs it kills it self

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hJvPAgUfCa0

Practice practice practice

some will kill ethically and efficentally at 75 yards and beyond

for you that don,t practice don,t shoot

David
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  #176  
Old 07-02-2012, 01:03 AM
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Ahh, the internet! Creating a new Olympic athlete in his own mind everyday! If you are pinwheeling everything at 70 yards day in day out someone with alot more money than us poor saps on AO should be talking to you about a deal!

I also just have to laugh at these long shot on animal videos.....its always the same old response "Holy crap I hit him, 100 yard shot!!!"
Almost like they had a TAD bit of doubt when they let that arrow fly, or even thought about taking the shot.
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  #177  
Old 07-02-2012, 01:09 AM
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At the end of the day it's not how far you can shoot them it's how close you can get them. Personally I have no problem shooting any target, live or foam out to 80yrds. Doesn't mean I'm gonna take the shot. My adrenaline seems to only kick in after the arrow is released. I have taken mule deer as far as 70 and as close as 8. Both times I KNEW I was going to make that shot and both animals had complete pass throughs. It's the ability of the hunter to know his limitations based on a combination of skill level, equipment ability, and experience. However I don't know anyone who has the equipment or skill level to consistantly make kill shots at 117 yards. I think someone was just telling a fish story. This year I plan on taking a sheep with a bow, have already killed 2 with a rifle, I'm fully prepared to take one at 80 yards. Personally I think that's pretty close to a big horn. I sincerely hope I only have to shoot him at 30. But I'm also not going to push the envelope and make a hail Mary for the sake of killing a sheep with a bow, I'm happy to go home with nothing.
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  #178  
Old 07-02-2012, 09:28 AM
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[QUOTE=RayL42;1085117]Forgive me if some one has already made this point, I just skimmed most of the posts on the thread.

I always considered the long distance shots a bad idea (not necessarily unethical) due to the time it takes an arrow to reach the target. If your arrow is traveling at 300 fps it will take about a second to reach a target 75-100 yards away. In that amount of time a perfectly placed shot can land in a deer’s hind quarter regardless of the archer’s skill.[/

What he said
Dont matter how good a shot you are if the animal moves good luck finding it.
Maybe next week you will see it limping around with an arrow in its hind end.

Long shots with bow BAD
My 2 cents
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  #179  
Old 07-02-2012, 10:32 AM
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This year I plan on taking a sheep with a bow, have already killed 2 with a rifle, I'm fully prepared to take one at 80 yards. Personally I think that's pretty close to a big horn. I sincerely hope I only have to shoot him at 30. But I'm also not going to push the envelope and make a hail Mary for the sake of killing a sheep with a bow, I'm happy to go home with nothing.
i suspect you chose your name well. sounds like youve been smokin something alright.......
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  #180  
Old 07-02-2012, 11:46 AM
Grizzlyman1980 Grizzlyman1980 is offline
 
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80 Yard shot?Not for me but there are Guys out there that are more then capable,60 Yards for me is My Limit,farthest shot i have made was a 42 Yard shot last fall,Complete Pass thru ,Double Lung.
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