Region 6 skeena new no retention regs

[bowness]

Not salmon so dont freak out!

Just reading the Terrace Standard and all kinds of division among stakeholders on a new no retention reg for trout and dollies.
(put in place April 1 2013)

Politician says that "other western jurisdictions are doing it" (cant be us we only have a few populations of dollies), better to be more protectionist than not enough (think no pipeline, lets just add another tax...). BC politicians are a different lot (probably NDP and is hoping to get a tag system going on dollies for more money to pay bureaucrats and new commitees to discuss more regulations!!!!

Love fishing in that province but when it comes to politics...

Anyway the commercial fishermen (that includes freshwater guide operators) are the ones pushing this agenda. Watch out, they are gaining more economic power and inturn have politicians listening. Not saying I am not a supporter of protecting fisheries but often I think freshwater guides want to push laws that suite their agenda without any consideration of others. Albertans and other fish "retainers" are just "meat hunters" anyway!

We are probably fishing with hardware, not casting flies on spey rods. Disgusting

Link to Standard: http://www.terracestandard.com/

[bowness]

FYI, I fish hardware and the fly on the skeena. For any BC residents looking for a jab...

I have the last laugh anyway, look at the taxes I pay in Alberta

BC is making it back on classified waters licenses (not really), lets do the same to them...Bad idea, what waters would we classify? Hey why not the Bow, crowsnest and oldman watersheds? Any others you guys would "hypothetically" classfy for non residents???? Just for fun!!!! Lets not get too serious!!!

I have another one, Sibbald lake right after its stocked!!!

[DMCK]

Kind of a Non-issue to me. I go for coho every fall and always get a few trout on the tribs. Never thought about keeping them.
It will be the local meat fishermen who bitch, but with so many opportunities for salmon, have to wonder why??
And yes, the guides run the show there.

[bowness]

I sometimes visit family in terrace in the winter, fish for steelhead (all release of course and pay my nonresident license fees) but catch the odd Dollie. They are fantastic eating.

Soon enough we will all be eating aquacultured fish if fisheries managers make non retention regs with no data to support the decision. Might not bug you but ****es me off. If decisions are made on a resource based on the loudest lobby you end up in bizarre places. Look at what the commercial boys did for decades

[fishpro]

I fail to see the problem with this, or how this is guides creating regulations that hurt others. No matter what regulations are put in place there will be people who are happy and people who aren't. I don't see how regulations for conservation such as this are a bad thing. There are still many opportunities to keep fish in the region. The Skeena region is in a class or its own, and conservation should be the key determining factor in what they do.

On a side note, I had a good laugh up in Kitimat this summer after one of the locals said to me, "You're strange for an Albertan - you're actually releasing what you catch!"

[bowness]

You fail to see the problem of anybody questioning your higher than thou attitude cause your are a catch and releaser? Get off your high horse man!

The reason we have forums such as these and meetings to discuss the direction resource allocation should take is so ALL stakeholders have a say.
You seem to be in support of a moratorium on trout and dolly retention in skeena 6, maybe others are not. In this situation all stakeholders were not a part of the discussion.

Just because a law limits retention does not mean it is inherently a good conservation measure as you (and the politician in question) are saying. But it sure is politically correct eh

Jumping on the catch and release bandwagon might make you feel all good inside (and seeing as you are a "fishPro" I would guess you have alterior motives ) and want to cuddle a tree planter but it doesnt make you any better than any other legal angler. I am so sick of anglers who feel their means of fishing is somewhat more pious than others.

Don't chastise others for questioning how a resource is used or protected. It is my right as a citizen. Once I lose that I am just another follower with no opinion...

PS I have spent many years hanging out in Kitimat and let me tell you locals take more fish than Albertan's, they just have all summer to do so and can be more picky about when and where. But dont fall of that horse...

[/LEFT]

[fishpro]

I have no problem with people who legally keep fish, however I believe that in most cases catch and release is better for the fishery. If a person is a catch and release fishermen it does not make them better, however it does lessen their impact on the fishery.

I have no ulterior motives in this, I am simply a fisherman who greatly values the resource in that area and would like to see it preserved for years to come. There are still opportunities to keep fish up there, so I think a balance will still be maintained.

It's the same as how I am against the Northern Gateway Pipeline, simply because it travels through the Skeena system. The fishery there is incredible and I think everything that can be done to preserve and protect the fishery should be done.

[bowness]

Originally Posted by fishpro

I have no problem with people who legally keep fish, however I believe that in most cases catch and release is better for the fishery. If a person is a catch and release fishermen it does not make them better, however it does lessen their impact on the fishery.

I have no ulterior motives in this, I am simply a fisherman who greatly values the resource in that area and would like to see it preserved for years to come. There are still opportunities to keep fish up there, so I think a balance will still be maintained.

It's the same as how I am against the Northern Gateway Pipeline, simply because it travels through the Skeena system. The fishery there is incredible and I think everything that can be done to preserve and protect the fishery should be done.

You seem to have lots of confidence in maintaining a "balance" as long as its leaning your way. You have no problem with people keeping fish legally in skeena region (trout and dollies??) but want all waters banned to retention for a specific species. Are you a politician? Whats coming out one end is not the same as the other. Oh right, now I understand

If fisheries managers (and politicians) start making decisions on politics and not science you have a problem. Especially if only a select group are a part of the decision making. Do you get that???

A word of caution: you use the word "preserve" in your desire to save the Skeena from the onslaughts of resource extraction (those damn money making Albertans!). Preservationists have their own agenda and it does not always include recreational fishermen, or for that manner most resource users. They often view watersheds as areas that should not even be visited by humans let alone drive a jetboat up for a cast. Even helicopters are not legal to access water bodies as they can upset wildlife. And being an Albertan I must add: you don't generate many jobs or taxes from isolated and unuseable preserved land. (BC fixed that with more taxes, good on them!)

Good luck with the preserving and be careful what you wish for. No retention, no jetboat access, no helicopters, no non-residents? eventually those guides will bite off the hand that feeds them.

[SilversidesBC]

I have fished for Dollies and Bull trout since the late 80's around Vancouver BC and I remember when you could keep them and then when more people started keeping them the #'s started dropping fast. Bull's and Dollies are slow reproducers and its very easy to overfish them as we learned. Catch and release was implemented many years ago for our region and now the population is great and supports a fantastic fishery on many rivers and contributes to the employment of many guides like myself. I don't miss eating Dollies, sure the odd one was ok(many were mushy dirty tasting) but it doesn't compare to salmon or steelhead, not even close. Myself and others work hard to make sure that wild and hatchery salmon are always available for anglers to harvest as we feel it's our basic rights to hunt and gather our own non-corporate poisoned food. Corporations that try and restrict our rights to feeding our families healthy wild foods can kiss my A**.
I would stand with any guide or group of guides that moves in a direction of conservation for the protection of a species. As much as we like to harvest wild fish we don't want to be the cause of a resource crash. That would result in a economic loss for generations to come. We are the ones who live on a river and nobody is in better touch of the resource than us and when we make a decision its based on common sense for the purpose of protecting a dwindling or troubled stock and economic force. Guides love fish, it is a sustainable economy that has endless benefits for us all. And we absolutely hate salmon farms and the troubles that industry has brought to wild fish in BC. Back in 1986 it was stated in a boardroom meeting between gov't and corporate salmon farming companies who were planning expansion into BC: "our aim is to end common property fishing rights". That is an attack on all Canadians who want to harvest fish in BC and everywhere else. That is why we welcome and hope that people from across Canada can and will be able to come here and experience great fishing for generations to follow. Whatever the threat to wild Salmon or Trout, we will defend. If the wild fish go, so do we.
As in previous years we look forward to hosting our angling friends from BC to Quebec.
Best Fishes!

PS: for the latest on govt coverups and corruption in the salmon farming industry watch www.salmonconfidential.ca

[bowness]

Nice post but you kinda missed the point: what threat to dolly varden and trout in the Skeena region?

It is a politically and socially mitigated regulation, unless someone can prove, using scientifically relevant and reproduceable data that there is indeed a threat.

Assuming that what works on the lower mainland will work in region 6 is like comparing apples and oranges. Have you ever looked at the density of human population in the lower mainland? You need regionally specific regulations that reflect the conservation needs of that area (thats why we have regions)

Who says they are threatened? Did I miss something in this thread? Are people jumping to their own preconcieved fisheries management ideals?

I do understand your point about their breeding age and growth rates but any scientific study would take those variables into consideration if its worth the paper its written on.

[fish gunner]

Originally Posted by bowness

Nice post but you kinda missed the point: what threat to dolly varden and trout in the Skeena region?

It is a politically and socially mitigated regulation, unless someone can prove, using scientifically relevant and reproduceable data that there is indeed a threat.

Assuming that what works on the lower mainland will work in region 6 is like comparing apples and oranges. Have you ever looked at the density of human population in the lower mainland? You need regionally specific regulations that reflect the conservation needs of that area (thats why we have regions)

Who says they are threatened? Did I miss something in this thread? Are people jumping to their own preconcieved fisheries management ideals?

I do understand your point about their breeding age and growth rates but any scientific study would take those variables into consideration if its worth the paper its written on.

Can we agree catch and release maintains the sustainability of a fishery? Can we agree the skeena needs special attention due to the obvious misuses of the past. Do you undrestand the damage one spill in the wrong area would cause. Cant eat money. Can ya.

[bowness]

Originally Posted by fish gunner

Can we agree catch and release maintains the sustainability of a fishery? Can we agree the skeena needs special attention due to the obvious misuses of the past. Do you undrestand the damage one spill in the wrong area would cause. Cant eat money. Can ya.

No catch and release does not always help maintain the sustainability of a fishery. There are many examples if you open your eyes. But you want to see your "I am a saver of the waters mentality" shine. Its just self pontificating but you probably have already written my opinions off as I am not wearing the environmentalist silver jacket you are.

You too missed the point. I DO NOT agree with regulations that have not been scientifically scutinized and supported through active research. Did you read the thread or do you just want another plantform to justify your better than thou stewardship of the environment? You can jump up and down on the soap box of the "in" environmental movement all you want and use scare tactics to attract media retards but the basis of this thread is on decisions being made that affect specific users without all stakeholders having a say.

Even in our province I am a member a group of fishermen who go out and kill as many non native brook trout as possible. This is a common means of fisheries managers to use anglers for conservation efforts.

Would you advocate catch and release of Asian carp? Pike that are introduced to salmon rivers? Rainbows stocked in ponds that winterkill?

Your painting with a wide brush but you want to make your point cover all others...

I look forward to the downturn in BC's economy and all those who didnt support the pipeline moving to find work in Alberta. How about those scare tactics? Working for you??

[BeeGuy]

A lot of the reasoning you are providing is nonsensical.

[Scott h]

I can remember as a kid killing a ton of trout on the Bow river . Was their ever a lot of guys choked when catch and release became the law of the land , but from what I hear it seems to have worked well . I have a tendency to beleive that the fisheries guys know a bit more about stock levels in the Skeena and other region 6 area's than you do Bowness . It' best to err on the side of conservation of stocks .

[bowness]

Ok.

[bowness]

I would love to put my belief in the abilities of DFO but I think in most of the cases fish stocks are very difficult to estimate and assess from year to year. .

These are mainly resident fish, that might make it easier to study. But there have not been any studies, it is just knee jerk reaction based on certain users. Why does that not bother people? Maybe I need a beer.. That always makes me make more sense.

[BeeGuy]

So, what does the fisheries research (or lack thereof) have to say about stock levels in the identified watersheds?

Post links and maybe we can have a fruitful discussion based on the data.

I dont doubt that the special interest groups (emphasis on special) will take action to increase their potential economic activity.

[bowness]

What if the fly fishermen of Alberta decided that for conservation reasons (fly caught fish have lower mortality rates-hypothetical) the bow is turned into a fly fishing only fishery. The only people consulted are specific groups but not all stakeholders and the regulation is implimented. Hardware anglers get upset and wonder why they were not part of the decision making. Fly fishermen stand up tall and say, "its in the name of conservation!" End of story lets move on...

Another example might be jet boat users on the bow. A specific user group goes to governement and without consultation with other groups bans jetboat use on the river. Jetboaters ask why they were not consulted and the reply is...you get the point.

[bowness]

Originally Posted by BeeGuy

So, what does the fisheries research (or lack thereof) have to say about stock levels in the identified watersheds?

Post links and maybe we can have a fruitful discussion based on the data.

I dont doubt that the special interest groups (emphasis on special) will take action to increase their potential economic activity.

I have a quest...

[Northern Yaker]

http://www.env.gov.bc.ca/fw/fish/reg...15_region6.pdf

New BC Regs.
I see no retention of dolly varden in streams in region 6, no trout under 30cm and no trout nov to july1 . As for no trout retention. Either the OP has misread article or the Terrace paper has been misinformed.
I have family in Smithers and fish the region frequently so I'm fairly familiar with the regions regulations. Still ok to keep in lakes so... What was the issue??

[bowness]

No issue. No issue at all...

Did I say I catch and release most of my fish??? Just saying....

I only keep fish when nobody is looking

[BeeGuy]

Originally Posted by bowness

I only keep fish when nobody is looking

x2

Can someone post the old and the new regs?

[SilversidesBC]

Originally Posted by bowness

I look forward to the downturn in BC's economy and all those who didnt support the pipeline moving to find work in Alberta. How about those scare tactics? Working for you??

BC citizens are OK with NO PIPELINE. We are fine without it, our economy will not suffer and we don't want it or need it. First Nations don't want it either. We don't want bitumen flowing down the Skeena or Fraser river forever wiping out a natural precious resource that cannot be replaced. Building a pipeline that crosses unstable and rugged terrain is STUPID, greed drives such madness. Enbridge pipelines carrying tarsands oil are rupturing and destroying communities and families across the continent on a large scale(7 last week) and on flat terrain. A pipeline across BC's most rugged terrain and sacred rivers is a recipe for disaster and then where are you going to fish for priceless wild salmon?
If you have to destroy the planet to survive there's a problem. Many of my Albertan friends and clients know this and don't support a dirty pipeline that has a 100% certainty of rupturing and destroying so much. They value what BC has now.
All the $$ in the world cannot bring back what has been destroyed forever and you can't eat or drink oil.
And if your so ****ed at BC for not wanting a dirty pipeline spend your money elsewhere so you can help punish us. LOL

[BeeGuy]

He was being facetious.

[Northern Yaker]

" Many of my Albertan friends and clients know this and don't support a dirty pipeline that has a 100% certainty of rupturing and destroying so much. They value what BC has now."

Really 100% certainty of a rupture. You must be familiar with the pipe they plan on using, the crew assembling it, as well as all the natural factors that will without a doubt cause the end of the environment in BC, to make a assanine statement such as that.

[SilversidesBC]

Originally Posted by Northern Yaker

" Many of my Albertan friends and clients know this and don't support a dirty pipeline that has a 100% certainty of rupturing and destroying so much. They value what BC has now."

Really 100% certainty of a rupture. You must be familiar with the pipe they plan on using, the crew assembling it, as well as all the natural factors that will without a doubt cause the end of the environment in BC, to make a assanine statement such as that.

Yes, its a fact that pipelines will burst or leak at some point in their life(they are currently rupturing at an alarming rate across Canada and the US), especially when they are built on extreme terrain subject to landslides and avalanches as is the case in BC. It's not even debatable if you have even the basic education in physics, geography and have the heart to be honest with yourself. Even Enbridge knows this. Unfortunately oil greed has bought the souls of many men in this country and they have elevated the almighty $ above the well being of our land to sustain us. Keep up the attacks, we will be continuing our work to protect BC rivers, waterways and wild fish that Albertans love to catch.
PS: an Enbridges proposed plan to clean up a spill in Kitimat river and harbour is to light it on fire and destroy everything in sight including all the fish and wildlife. That's what BC is fighting against. Corporate Stupidity.