Let’s hear everyone’s opinions on the caliber choice for a all around rifle

[Pathfinder76]

Originally Posted by morinj

I’m curious as to why anyone would choose the 30-06 over the .270! Wasn’t the .270 round developed as an improvement over the 30-06 shortly after WW1?

What made it an improvement?

[waldedw]

I have 300 RUM, 338 WM, 6.5 PRC, 270 win, 280 rem, 7mm08 and a few more and my favorite is the one I choose to carry that day, they all work with proper bullets and shot placement.

Debating which caliber is the best all around choice is like debating which woman is better blondes, brunettes or red heads

[morinj]

Originally Posted by Pathfinder76

What made it an improvement?

Flatter trajectory, allowing longer range, and less recoil, this is apparently the history behind the .270 round and how it was developed as an improvement of the 30-06 in 1925, am I wrong?

[SuperCub]

Originally Posted by CanuckShooter

All around 30-06 is excellent, you can use a huge variety of bullet weights, ammo is more available and there are excellent light weight rifles chambered in 30-06. Sako 85 for example.

I'd avoid wsm and other obscure calibers because you most likely will have a hard time finding ammunition, if you look through the for sale ads lots of wsm rifles are up for sale, I wonder why?

^^ This ^^ ...... Unless you are a well stocked hand loader, stick with the 30-06 or 308.

[Pathfinder76]

Originally Posted by morinj

Flatter trajectory, allowing longer range, and less recoil, this is apparently the history behind the .270 round and how it was developed as an improvement of the 30-06 in 1925, am I wrong?

Well, here is what the same gentleman I quoted above sent me and a couple of friends this morning.

“I know you all will be surprised, but I used a 30-06 with 168 TTSX's in Tajikistan. There are only three flights per week to Dushanbe on Turkish Airlines, which is the route nearly all American and Canadian hunters take. So, during the hunting season, there are always 6-8 hunters on each flight that are going to various hunting units throughout the country. The method for getting cleared by customs with a firearm is straight out of Soviet times, so they herd the hunters into a room for about 2-3 hours while they all get cleared.

As you can imagine, this leads to much discussion of where everyone is going, what you are hunting, what rifle you brought, etc. I was asked what I was shooting and said a 30-06 on a Mauser type action. They literally made fun of me, to the point that when we ran into one of the groups at a gas station on the way to the Pamirs, they referred to me as the '30-06' guy. The leader of the pack had a super-cool rifle in something called a 6 Dasher or some such thing, which seemed sort of crazy in a country where the only ammo I saw was in 300 Win Mag, 30-06 and 7.62x39.

We all ended up back in the same room at the airport on our way out two weeks later. I had killed the biggest ibex by about six inches, so they were much more muted than on the way in.

In all seriousness, I had to shoot the ibex at 425 yards. I center punched the shoulder, as you can see in the photos. The ibex collapsed at the shot and rolled into a snow slide. The boar was 415, shot through the shoulder, ran 15 yards and collapsed. All with a cartridge that I can find ammo for in any reasonably well stocked Tim Horton's from here to Bulawayo. Not sure a lot can be gained as far as actual hunting goes.

I am all for having fun with obscure cartridges locally, but if I'm flying to the hunt, I'll take a 30-06 or 300 Win. :-)”

[Pathfinder76]

Originally Posted by morinj

Flatter trajectory, allowing longer range, and less recoil, this is apparently the history behind the .270 round and how it was developed as an improvement of the 30-06 in 1925, am I wrong?

It just doesn’t play out well in the real world.

[dave99]

Simply outstanding. Thanks for sharing this story, which is a good for a laugh but also shows the potential folly of running uncommon chamberings on international hunts.

Last fall my 30.06 got the nod for a mountain moose hunt, after a few years of neglect as I’ve gravitated toward the latest and best in recent times. The 168gr TSX handloads dropped a bull in his tracks at 410yds.

Originally Posted by Pathfinder76

Well, here is what the same gentleman I quoted above sent me and a couple of friends this morning.

“I know you all will be surprised, but I used a 30-06 with 168 TTSX's in Tajikistan. There are only three flights per week to Dushanbe on Turkish Airlines, which is the route nearly all American and Canadian hunters take. So, during the hunting season, there are always 6-8 hunters on each flight that are going to various hunting units throughout the country. The method for getting cleared by customs with a firearm is straight out of Soviet times, so they herd the hunters into a room for about 2-3 hours while they all get cleared.

As you can imagine, this leads to much discussion of where everyone is going, what you are hunting, what rifle you brought, etc. I was asked what I was shooting and said a 30-06 on a Mauser type action. They literally made fun of me, to the point that when we ran into one of the groups at a gas station on the way to the Pamirs, they referred to me as the '30-06' guy. The leader of the pack had a super-cool rifle in something called a 6 Dasher or some such thing, which seemed sort of crazy in a country where the only ammo I saw was in 300 Win Mag, 30-06 and 7.62x39.

We all ended up back in the same room at the airport on our way out two weeks later. I had killed the biggest ibex by about six inches, so they were much more muted than on the way in.

In all seriousness, I had to shoot the ibex at 425 yards. I center punched the shoulder, as you can see in the photos. The ibex collapsed at the shot and rolled into a snow slide. The boar was 415, shot through the shoulder, ran 15 yards and collapsed. All with a cartridge that I can find ammo for in any reasonably well stocked Tim Horton's from here to Bulawayo. Not sure a lot can be gained as far as actual hunting goes.

I am all for having fun with obscure cartridges locally, but if I'm flying to the hunt, I'll take a 30-06 or 300 Win. :-)”

[morinj]

Originally Posted by Pathfinder76

It just doesn’t play out well in the real world.

So are you saying that the history behind the .270 wasn’t an improvement on the 30-06 or was it a failed attempt or just non existent? There’s no doubt that you can kill at long distance with either, but was the .270 NOT developed as an improvement to the 30-06, all charts aside, I’m simply asking a question?

[Pathfinder76]

Originally Posted by morinj

So are you saying that the history behind the .270 wasn’t an improvement on the 30-06 or was it a failed attempt or just non existent? There’s no doubt that you can kill at long distance with either, but was the .270 NOT developed as an improvement to the 30-06, all charts aside, I’m simply asking a question?

I was not present when Winchester made there decisions. But doesn’t everyone that develops a cartridge of any kind call it an improvement over something?

This is a silly conversation.

[sns2]

Originally Posted by morinj

So are you saying that the history behind the .270 wasn’t an improvement on the 30-06 or was it a failed attempt or just non existent? There’s no doubt that you can kill at long distance with either, but was the .270 NOT developed as an improvement to the 30-06, all charts aside, I’m simply asking a question?

Every time a new cartridge is released, the designer thinks it's an improvement on existing cartridges. It seems you want an objective answer to a subjective question.

Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk

[sns2]

Sorry, Pathfinder. We were typing at same time I think.

Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk

[nekred]

6.8-06

[marky_mark]

Originally Posted by nekred

6.8-06

Lol

[morinj]

Originally Posted by sns2

Every time a new cartridge is released, the designer thinks it's an improvement on existing cartridges. It seems you want an objective answer to a subjective question.

Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk

No all I was looking for was an answer, but I’m under the impression that the feeling was that its an attack on the cartridge itself, from what I understood and have read, Is that the 30-06 cartridge which was developed in 1906 being a 30 caliber thus adapting the name 30-06 used in WW1 was brought home by many soldiers who used them as hunting cartridges, however 1925 Springfield took to that particular cartridge (30-06) to improve the round (for hunting) by narrowing the round, improving trajectory, with less recoil. So myself not claiming to be a firearms pro, have to wonder why choose the 30-06 over the .270? It could be that there’s more ammo variance, more manufactures, easier reloads, heavier this, lighter that I don’t know, and why I ask the question! I would even accept “personal preference”, or your response by stating that developers “claim” to improve, I can live with that!

[Coiloil37]

Originally Posted by morinj

No all I was looking for was an answer, but I’m under the impression that the feeling was that its an attack on the cartridge itself, from what I understood and have read, Is that the 30-06 cartridge which was developed in 1906 being a 30 caliber thus adapting the name 30-06 used in WW1 was brought home by many soldiers who used them as hunting cartridges, however 1925 Springfield took to that particular cartridge (30-06) to improve the round (for hunting) by narrowing the round, improving trajectory, with less recoil. So myself not claiming to be a firearms pro, have to wonder why choose the 30-06 over the .270? It could be that there’s more ammo variance, more manufactures, easier reloads, heavier this, lighter that I don’t know, and why I ask the question! I would even accept “personal preference”, or your response by stating that developers “claim” to improve, I can live with that!

It’s a complete waste of time to give an opinion on this topic but I’ll give mine anyway.

I was a .270 junky growing up because that’s what my old man used. Every deer and elk I saw him or my mom tip over was with a .270 and it’s naturally what I started using when I turned 14. I actually disliked the ‘06 at the time because everyone had one. I shot the .270 until my mid 20’s when I bought a 100 year commemorative 30-06 in Lloydminster back in 2006.
I started playing with the ‘06 and found it would launch a 168 at the same speed I could shoot a 140 grain from my .270 and a 180 from the aught six was going the same speed as a 150 from my .270 (both with a 24” barrel). I also found a .200 grain from my 30-06 was the same speed as a 150 from my .270 with a 22” barrel.

I live in a world where things are either better or worse. I don’t often get bent out of shape about quantifying how much better one thing is over another but when I’m comparing things I compare macro elements against each other as better or worse. Then I do my own mental masturbation to quantify something as a whole VS. the other.

For example

Per charge of powder the ‘06 is typically less
Recoil is the same (I’m not recoil sensitive)
A 168 at 3000 fps is better then a 140 at 3000 fps (my chronograph velocity’s)
Being able to load a wider range of projectiles is better then fewer
Larger bore diameter is better then smaller or more frontal area is better then less…

Larger bore equals a better expansion ratio which equates to more work done with the same amount of pressure. Now the .270 has a 5k psi higher pressure because it doesn’t have any old rifles with weak actions to protect but it has less bore diameter so it gets less work done from its pressure then a .06 does. The .270 also has less case capacity.

The list goes on but from my perspective the short answer is that the ‘06 does everything the .270 does and it does it better. It also can do things the .270 can’t… like shoot 200 grain bullets.

I then started using it on game and it killed everything… go figure. Is it “better” then a .270??? Overall, prob the same but perhaps more versatile and it’s certainly not worse at anything. Both cartridges killed everything I hit with them.


My .270 became a loaner rifle and I’ve shot a ‘06 ever since. In 2018 I loaded some 130 ttsx to see what I thought. Guess what, they give a 350 fps increase on a 130 from my .270 and shot right through everything I hit with them. At 3450 fps they fly flat and gave me the most dramatic bang flops I’ve ever seen. I took a moose through the onside shoulder that year and it broke the onside leg and exited the off side.
We left the country in 2019 so I haven’t used it since which is why I referenced 2018 and can only speak to four kills with that bullet weight in that rifle. All four of the animals I shot that year went down like they were struck by lighting.

I’ve taken game with every weight bullet from 130-220 grains with my 30-06 and it’s been nothing short of consistently perfect. I settled on a kimber Montana with tally rings and a 2.5-8x36 leupold. At just under 6.5lbs all up and consistently putting three bullets into one ragged hole it suits me as the best all rounder.

[morinj]

Originally Posted by Coiloil37

It’s a complete waste of time to give an opinion on this topic but I’ll give mine anyway.

I was a .270 junky growing up because that’s what my old man used. Every deer and elk I saw him or my mom tip over was with a .270 and it’s naturally what I started using when I turned 14. I actually disliked the ‘06 at the time because everyone had one. I shot the .270 until my mid 20’s when I bought a 100 year commemorative 30-06 in Lloydminster back in 2006.
I started playing with the ‘06 and found it would launch a 168 at the same speed I could shoot a 140 grain from my .270 and a 180 from the aught six was going the same speed as a 150 from my .270 (both with a 24” barrel). I also found a .200 grain from my 30-06 was the same speed as a 150 from my .270 with a 22” barrel.

I live in a world where things are either better or worse. I don’t often get bent out of shape about quantifying how much better one thing is over another but when I’m comparing things I compare macro elements against each other as better or worse. Then I do my own mental masturbation to quantify something as a whole VS. the other.

For example

Per charge of powder the ‘06 is typically less
Recoil is the same (I’m not recoil sensitive)
A 168 at 3000 fps is better then a 140 at 3000 fps (my chronograph velocity’s)
Being able to load a wider range of projectiles is better then fewer
Larger bore diameter is better then smaller or more frontal area is better then less…

Larger bore equals a better expansion ratio which equates to more work done with the same amount of pressure. Now the .270 has a 5k psi higher pressure because it doesn’t have any old rifles with weak actions to protect but it has less bore diameter so it gets less work done from its pressure then a .06 does. The .270 also has less case capacity.

The list goes on but from my perspective the short answer is that the ‘06 does everything the .270 does and it does it better. It also can do things the .270 can’t… like shoot 200 grain bullets.

I then started using it on game and it killed everything… go figure. Is it “better” then a .270??? Overall, prob the same but perhaps more versatile and it’s certainly not worse at anything. Both cartridges killed everything I hit with them.


My .270 became a loaner rifle and I’ve shot a ‘06 ever since. In 2018 I loaded some 130 ttsx to see what I thought. Guess what, they give a 350 fps increase on a 130 from my .270 and shot right through everything I hit with them. At 3450 fps they fly flat and gave me the most dramatic bang flops I’ve ever seen. I took a moose through the onside shoulder that year and it broke the onside leg and exited the off side.
We left the country in 2019 so I haven’t used it since which is why I referenced 2018 and can only speak to four kills with that bullet weight in that rifle. All four of the animals I shot that year went down like they were struck by lighting.

I’ve taken game with every weight bullet from 130-220 grains with my 30-06 and it’s been nothing short of consistently perfect. I settled on a kimber Montana with tally rings and a 2.5-8x36 leupold. At just under 6.5lbs all up and consistently putting three bullets into one ragged hole it suits me as the best all rounder.

Not a waste of time in any sense, what you just taught me is that you can shoot heavier rounds more efficiently out of the 30-06 and that the rounds that shoot faster out of the .270 can cause more damage to the protein that you’re trying to harvest from the animal you’ve just taken, you’ve also taught me that both with kill anything you shoot! This makes sense to me, I wasn’t asking a rhetorical question!

[270person]

Comparing the .270 to the 30-06 is like comparing the 30-06 to the 7RM.

[Pathfinder76]

It’s more about the hoodie you wear than the cartridge you shoot.

[DiabeticKripple]

Originally Posted by 270person

Comparing the .270 to the 30-06 is like comparing the 30-06 to the 7RM.

Exactly.

The 30-06 is better than the 270 win, and the 7 RM is better than the 30-06

270 < 30-06 < 7 RM

[Camdec]

Originally Posted by CanuckShooter

All around 30-06 is excellent, you can use a huge variety of bullet weights, ammo is more available and there are excellent light weight rifles chambered in 30-06. Sako 85 for example.

I'd avoid wsm and other obscure calibers because you most likely will have a hard time finding ammunition, if you look through the for sale ads lots of wsm rifles are up for sale, I wonder why?

I agree for all the same reasons.

I’m a little surprised the .308 hasn’t popped up a little more though.

[M.C. Gusto]

300wsm

[Sundog57]

My advice is if you like guns, don't buy a 30-06
I did
It seems to like all sizes of Barnes bullets and shoots very nice groups with 130s though 180s. (haven't tried 200s yet but it's eaten every other bullet weight with aplomb)
After I bought it, I sort of thought it would have been cool to have purchased a 25-06 and a 300 win mag to cover the entire spectrum of things I might like to shoot.
Now every time I see a rifle that interests me in either of those calibers as well as a couple of others (7rem mag in particular) I go look at Strelock and I get stuck thinking, my 06 can do that just fine... and I don't buy a new rifle.
it's just not fair.

[Squirrelnuttz]

Another vote for the '06. It's vanilla, yes. I'm sure it's all been laid out already from the posts I've seen. But here it goes again.

Very common ammunition, found the world over. From a one horse town hardware store in the middle of the prairies, Europe ( very popular there), the Stan's, and everywhere in between. Huge selection of projectile weight and types, off the shelf. Handloaded, it just gets better.

Ackley it if you wanna be super fly, and still run factory in a pinch. Off the shelf turrets available to fancy up that old Leupold. Chambered in most every action type and model appropriate to the length of cartridge.

And it's got a record. Several. It was a 1000 yard competition cartridge, fought countless wars and skirmishes, filled many pots with game meat. And many a fine head on the wall.
It's accounted for nearly if not every game species hunted in the last hundred hundred and some years at least a time or two, up to the biggest with the ivory teeth.

And it shoots well, doesn't beat the wheels off you when it goes off, in a properly fitted rifle.

Not super sexy, an eye roll ensues when you pull it out of the case, and someone asks, but it just works.

Mine's made in 1918, and still going strong. And now she has a sister, an 8 X 57 is (js).

Can't wait to take them out this fall....

[kujoseto]

I’ve settled on 30-06 for myself and would choose the same from the list of options.
Only difference would be if I put weight in the decision based on the factory ammo availability over the past two years. I saw plenty more 308 than anything else and at times saw no 30-06 on the shelf. Cabelas can’t sell 308 ammo it seems right now. (So that list mean 30-06 is better lol)

So if the ammo factor is big for you, I’d suggest looking at what you can readily source

[Coho911]

Originally Posted by Dick284

.280AI if you reload.
.30-06 if you are a factory fodder kinda guy.

I second this exactly.

280 Ackley Improved 1st choice if you reload (INSANELY amazing round - buddy has it and it just amazes me. Better than my 7mm Rem Mag.)
30-06 2nd if you don't reload.

6.8 Western if you are one of those guys (WOWZERS)

[brewster29]

270? 30-06? Can't decide?

The last few years I have really been enjoying hunting with their love child: the 280 Remington. It's my suggestion for an all around rifle.

[Forhunt]

I like my 300 wsm

For practical reasons, all around 1 gun
1) 7mm
2)30-06
3)270

[Backwoods Runner]

When my ears start building up with wax and my nose gets plugged I’ll pull out one of the infamous WSM’s I have and fire a couple sighting rounds off the bench and usually knocks everything loose. If really bad I’ll grab thumper. 35whelan AI. Absolutely flattens everything it hits but makes me eyes water. If I actually want to enjoy shooting or hunting I’ll grab the lowly 270win. Nothing in 41 years has walked mor than 20 yards after hitting it. But then again, I usually hit it where I want to.

[Ken3134]

Originally Posted by morinj

No all I was looking for was an answer, but I’m under the impression that the feeling was that its an attack on the cartridge itself, from what I understood and have read, Is that the 30-06 cartridge which was developed in 1906 being a 30 caliber thus adapting the name 30-06 used in WW1 was brought home by many soldiers who used them as hunting cartridges, however 1925 Springfield took to that particular cartridge (30-06) to improve the round (for hunting) by narrowing the round, improving trajectory, with less recoil. So myself not claiming to be a firearms pro, have to wonder why choose the 30-06 over the .270? It could be that there’s more ammo variance, more manufactures, easier reloads, heavier this, lighter that I don’t know, and why I ask the question! I would even accept “personal preference”, or your response by stating that developers “claim” to improve, I can live with that!

If there ever was an "improvement" to the 30-06, it was the 308 according to the military who liked that it was very accurate, was a short action, less felt recoil and cycled better in their semi automatic weapons.
For a hunter there was no improvement from either the 270 or the 308 over the 30-06 in my opinion.
Of the 3 the 270 probably has the lowest felt recoil....
I guess theres that?

[Twisted Canuck]

Originally Posted by Camdec

I agree for all the same reasons.

I’m a little surprised the .308 hasn’t popped up a little more though.

The .308 Winchester is a great old school short action cartridge, super effective too. I just had a .338 Federal built just because I wanted one, and it seems to be effective too. But what you really need is the new Creedmore....