Shot placement question

[FCLightning]

You have tremendous patience for the rabble gallery equanuck. Good luck with your hunting.

[equanuck]

Originally Posted by catnthehat

We all know the variables, and as I tried to point out in my previous post, there are variables in every form of hunting , NOT just lomg range hunting.

This is not about target shooting for me, becaus in target competition I need to put 10 rounds into a target at a designated distance - in my discipline, anyway.
In hunting do not look for a second shot be it close range or longer ranges , my goal is one shot only.
Long range hunting may not be ethical to you, and may be nothing more than shooting , but to the many sportsmen that participate in long range hunting in a serious way, it is anything but folley and nothing but serious .
Cat

You have archery hunters that cut shooting lanes and mark out the ranges for the multiple posts on their sites so they don't have to guess.

Long range hunting is regular hunting with 3 times the attention to details. I would say SHAME on anyone who has hunted the same property for more than 2 seasons and not know relative distances to obvious objects. I have the ability to sit down and look out over 3 quarters of land, so why not take advantage and practice.

I also know that for "quick short shots", fences are 1/2 mile apart, range roads are every 2 miles and for truck hunting: it's 35 miles to the RCMP & F&W office!
LOL!

[equanuck]

Originally Posted by FCLightning

You have tremendous patience for the rabble gallery equanuck. Good luck with your hunting.

Mostly just bored out of my mind sitting here in Iraq! If I was at home I'd be either fishing or shooting.

[catnthehat]

Originally Posted by equanuck

You have archery hunters that cut shooting lanes and mark out the ranges for the multiple posts on their sites so they don't have to guess.

Long range hunting is regular hunting with 3 times the attention to details. I would say SHAME on anyone who has hunted the same property for more than 2 seasons and not know relative distances to obvious objects. I have the ability to sit down and look out over 3 quarters of land, so why not take advantage and practice.

I also know that for "quick short shots", fences are 1/2 mile apart, range roads are every 2 miles and for truck hunting: it's 35 miles to the RCMP & F&W office!
LOL!

I have decided that no matter what we say, there are those that will maintain because of some weird detail, that us long range hunters are taking iffy shots no matter how a person looks at it, so i won't be replying to this thread anymore.
Frankly I'm a bit tired of having to explain myself to people becasue what they think is wrong is not always the case to others, especially when many of those detractors oif long range hunting think nothing of taking shots that may be beyond their capabilites at coyotes, crows, gophers , etc because they consider them varints and somehow different than deer or moose.
Cat

Originally Posted by catnthehat

I have decided that no matter what we say, there are those that will maintain because of some weird detail, that us long range hunters are taking iffy shots no matter how a person looks at it, so i won't be replying to this thread anymore.
Frankly I'm a bit tired of having to explain myself to people becasue what they think is wrong is not always the case to others, especially when many of those detractors oif long range hunting think nothing of taking shots that may be beyond their capabilites at coyotes, crows, gophers , etc because they consider them varints and somehow different than deer or moose.
Cat

They say the definition of insane is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result....lol I think we might both be ready for a sleeveless jacket and rubber room cat...lol. Some people are here to learn and share knowledge...others aren't. I think you are right cat, this thread has long run its course. Funny how we went from a simple question to a lecture on the ethics of shot placement, shooting cows, long-range shooting, non-expanding bullets, television production, and anti hunters. I bet the OP figured it was a simple question....lmao

[FCLightning]

Oh yeah, the original question.

It depends.

[equanuck]

Originally Posted by sheephunter

They say the definition of insane is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result....lol I think we might both be ready for a sleeveless jacket and rubber room cat...lol. Some people are here to learn and share knowledge...others aren't. I think you are right cat, this thread has long run its course. Funny how we went from a simple question to a lecture on the ethics of shot placement, shooting cows, long-range shooting, non-expanding bullets, television production, and anti hunters. I bet the OP figured it was a simple question....lmao

LOL! I think the rubber room will be boring without the good drugs! Think most have been used up over the past 4 days. Maybe you could do an online reality hunting show? People could post in 24hrs a day as you're gearing up and then you have the shooter or shooters "have" to take the most preferred shot according to web vote and not the shooters confidence / ability / or calibre of choice.

Lol! Wonder what the backlash of comments would be then?

Well I've had fun out of this. Don't think I'll change anything.

[ishootbambi]

[QUOTE=ram crazy;841093]

Originally Posted by ishootbambi

still flinching a little i think. of course he needed a second shot.

Maybe he needs a gun that don't kick if he is flinching!!!!

yeah, sorry....flinching isnt the right word. quivering, shaking, vibrating from excitement....all better terms to describe the situation.

so....ummmm...you know of a gun that "dont kick"? simple physics says that isnt possible?

[KegRiver]

Oh for sure, in my case the bear was already moving.
I must also admit that I didn't have the advantage of ballistics charts or range finders. For me it was a much more dicey shot then what you are proposing to do, I would think. I didn't even have a decent gun for such ranges. Just an old army surplus 303 with peep sights.

See I do understand the desire to see how far one can shoot and still take down game. I know it's not about target practice. It's about challenging oneself, about finding out where the limits really are. Or at least that is what it was for me.

I'm just wondering. I would think that at such a range, the possibility of the Deer moving would be pretty fair, I figured you had probably worked out a solution and I was curious what you had come up with.


You have to admit that it is something that most people know little or nothing about. Some folks are bound to want to know more don't you think?

It won't bother me a bit if you'd rather not answer. Bottom line. it's nothing to me, besides interesting.

[equanuck]

Originally Posted by KegRiver

Oh for sure, in my case the bear was already moving.
I must also admit that I didn't have the advantage of ballistics charts or range finders. For me it was a much more dicey shot then what you are proposing to do, I would think. I didn't even have a decent gun for such ranges. Just an old army surplus 303 with peep sights.

See I do understand the desire to see how far one can shoot and still take down game. I know it's not about target practice. It's about challenging oneself, about finding out where the limits really are. Or at least that is what it was for me.

I'm just wondering. I would think that at such a range, the possibility of the Deer moving would be pretty fair, I figured you had probably worked out a solution and I was curious what you had come up with.

You have to admit that it is something that most people know little or nothing about. Some folks are bound to want to know more don't you think?

It won't bother me a bit if you'd rather not answer. Bottom line. it's nothing to me, besides interesting.

The solution is actually very easy. Water. You were expecting bait? LOL!

Now since the neighbour has severely downsized his cattle herd and is producing more alfalfa and he worked up 2 more quarters this past fall. Says he's seeding to grain this year so I think we'll be looking at a lot of animals staying around.

It's not too hard to sit back and watch the deer. Along with the guns and high powered scopes I have literally thousands of dollars worth of camera equipment. Somewhere in the neighbourhood of $20,000 and an expensive laptop to edit the pics on.

It's not about whacking a deer at 1000yds. It's about spending as much time outside doing the things I love to do. I enjoy shooting for distance and I enjoy hunting for the memories it brings and the memories it brings back.

[sheepguide]

Ill get this going a bit.

A good hunter can get close and doesnt need to shoot long distance!!!!!!!!!!!!!

A good long distance shooter doesnt need to be a good hunter!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

SG

[whitetailhntr]

Originally Posted by sheepguide

Ill get this going a bit.

A good hunter can get close and doesnt need to shoot long distance!!!!!!!!!!!!!

A good long distance shooter doesnt need to be a good hunter!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

SG

And the ultimate is to be set up for either situation. Be good at both and then your set. That is my goal.It's a work in progress....

[equanuck]

Originally Posted by sheepguide

Ill get this going a bit.

A good hunter can get close and doesnt need to shoot long distance!!!!!!!!!!!!!

A good long distance shooter doesnt need to be a good hunter!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

SG

LOL! Damn is that close to what I was going to write.

A person can be a "GOOD SHOT" & be a "BAD HUNTER"!!!!!

But they can't be a "POOR SHOT" & be a "GOOD HUNTER"!!!!

[Walleyes]

Originally Posted by sheepguide

Ill get this going a bit.

A good hunter can get close and doesnt need to shoot long distance!!!!!!!!!!!!!

A good long distance shooter doesnt need to be a good hunter!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

SG

Finally something I totally agree with... One of the best statements out of this forum in quite some time..

Now watch the metal start to fly lol..

Good one S.G.

( I wonder how long until Neil & Bob start setting you straight on this one )

[ishootbambi]

^^^ ok, i know youre just stirring the pot.....but ill play. remember justin c? i watched him shoot an antelope at a distance i would never consider shooting an animal at. he also killed more animals with a bow this past season than many kill in 10 years of bowhunting. so how do you rate a guy like that? some people just like long distance shooting and hunting. ill admit before i saw it happen it made no sense to me. still not my thing, but i can respect the skill it takes to do it.

maybe a long distance shooter doesnt need the skills of a close range hunter when hes shooting at long range, but i hope you arent suggesting that the long range crowd are less capable hunters.

[sheepguide]

Originally Posted by whitetailhntr

And the ultimate is to be set up for either situation. Be good at both and then your set. That is my goal.It's a work in progress....

Sure but really if you are good at the hunting part then whats the need for the long shots other than for personal reasons?

Hunting is getting out and out smarting game on their turf. Shooting them at long distances takes the skill and knowledge of beating that animal one on one, watching scent control and noise made out of the equation. Any Joe can get within 600+yrds of an animal.

Long range shooting is learning your firearm, and getting proficient with it at long ranges. And takes considerable skill but once that is learned then the hunting is really a side note, becomes alot more about the shooting than anything else.

SG

[sheepguide]

Originally Posted by Walleyes

Final
( I wonder how long until Neil & Bob start setting you straight on this one )

there still pouting in the corner and have me on ignore. LOL

[sheepguide]

Originally Posted by ishootbambi

^^^ ok, i know youre just stirring the pot.....but ill play. remember justin c? i watched him shoot an antelope at a distance i would never consider shooting an animal at. he also killed more animals with a bow this past season than many kill in 10 years of bowhunting. so how do you rate a guy like that? some people just like long distance shooting and hunting. ill admit before i saw it happen it made no sense to me. still not my thing, but i can respect the skill it takes to do it.

maybe a long distance shooter doesnt need the skills of a close range hunter when hes shooting at long range, but i hope you arent suggesting that the long range crowd are less capable hunters.

Ok but what takes more hunting skill? And what takes more shooting skill?

And yes actually some long range hunters will need less hunting skill. How many big animals do you see at 1000yrds when hunting? Alot more than you see under 300yrds? How many do you see at 30yrds? The closer you get the better you need to be! It takes skill and knowledge of the animal your hunting to get close. Even you have to admit that.
Long distance shooters are for sure skilled shooters, doesnt mean they are good hunters.
SG

[whitetailhntr]

Originally Posted by sheepguide

Sure but really if you are good at the hunting part then whats the need for the long shots other than for personal reasons?

Hunting is getting out and out smarting game on their turf. Shooting them at long distances takes the skill and knowledge of beating that animal one on one, watching scent control and noise made out of the equation. Any Joe can get within 600+yrds of an animal.

Long range shooting is learning your firearm, and getting proficient with it at long ranges. And takes considerable skill but once that is learned then the hunting is really a side note, becomes alot more about the shooting than anything else.

SG

Lots of what you say is true, I won't disagree. How bout the situation being the last day of sheep season, 15 to 20 minutes legal light left, you spot the ram of a lifetime. He is across the gorge your on, you have no time to make a stalk. You range him and he is 600 yrds give or take. You have been praticing with your new custom .280 AI that Bob is building for you(awesome choice btw) all summer long and are very confident at that range with that rifle. Would you not take the shot? I know I would. Wouldn't feel like any less of a hunter for doing so either.

Your thoughts?

[ishootbambi]

i get your point that shooting from long range requires less hunting skill....in fact i even agree. i hope you get mine that just because someone may choose to shoot long range occasionally that the skills of that hunter dont diminish any and that he/she may in fact have better than average skills for getting close to game, but chooses not to use those skills from time to time.

[Mountain Guy]

What happens when a long range hunters finds himself to close to the animal?
Does he sneek away from it?
I think the concept is interesting but it does seem odd to always set up to be far enough away from what your shooting at.
I don't think it would ever work for me because the stalk is to much a part of the hunt for me.
Some of my best hunting memories are of busted stocks while bow hunting.

[KegRiver]

Originally Posted by equanuck

The solution is actually very easy. Water. You were expecting bait? LOL!

Oh yes, I never though of water. It ought to work. I had thought of bait but I think bait is illegal in Alberta, so ruled it out. But water, I feel silly now for not thinking of that.

It's a natural.

200-1,000 yards takes pretty much the same skill as a hunter I'd say. Getting in bow range, now that requires some skill as a hunter. Shooting animals consistently over 500 yards...now that takes some skill as a shooter. All different skills. Some people are good at both, some are good at one or the other. Just good to see people hunting I'd say

Lots of guys starting to build custom trifles and buy ballistic reticle or turret optics. Seems to me a lot of the skilled hunters are now intrerested in becoming skilled shooters. Good for them I say. Always good to keep challenging yourself.

[KegRiver]

Originally Posted by sheepguide

Ok but what takes more hunting skill? And what takes more shooting skill?

And yes actually some long range hunters will need less hunting skill. How many big animals do you see at 1000yrds when hunting? Alot more than you see under 300yrds? How many do you see at 30yrds? The closer you get the better you need to be! It takes skill and knowledge of the animal your hunting to get close. Even you have to admit that.
Long distance shooters are for sure skilled shooters, doesnt mean they are good hunters.
SG

Yes, but skill is skill, right? Besides, it doesn't mean they aren't either.

Now, consider this. I can sneak up on a Deer, no problem. But I will never be able to hit a Deer from 1,000 yards.

Thought occurs to me, most if not all those capable of making such long shots are probably capable of learning stalking techniques, and becoming proficient at them, if they aren't already.

I doubt very much that the opposite is true.

Oops, didn't notice you post ISB

[sheepguide]

Originally Posted by KegRiver

Yes, but skill is skill, right? Besides, it doesn't mean they aren't either.

Now, consider this. I can sneak up on a Deer, no problem. But I will never be able to hit a Deer from 1,000 yards.

Thought occurs to me, most if not all those capable of making such long shots are probably capable of learning stalking techniques, and becoming proficient at them, if they aren't already.

I doubt very much that the opposite is true.

Oops, didn't notice you post ISB

The point alot of guys are missing is they are two different skills.
One is a skilled shooter and one is a skilled hunter. Not taking anything away from either. But the farther someone can shoot the less hunting skills that he "needs". Not saying that guys that shoot far dont have hunting skills but the farther you can be away the more you can get away with(sent,noise and movement).

TJ says that it doesnt take any more skill to get within 200yrds than 1000yrds. Thats just rediculous, sure to some 200yrds is simple but not everyone can with ease. Anyone that thinks that its as easy to stalk within 200yrds of a B/C whitetail as it is 1000yrds has a screw loose. No matter how you look at it the closer you stalk the tougher things get.

SG

[sheepguide]

Originally Posted by sheephunter

Getting in bow range, now that requires some skill as a hunter. .

Is that why some hunting shows have very minimal archery hunting?
SG

[big-river]

Remind me again, where will you be aiming at this doe at the water hole in good light on a relatively calm day in an early hunting season before the water freezes?
Is it going to be a #1, #2 or a #3 hold?
Thats where this thread more or less started, right?

Originally Posted by big-river

Remind me again, where will you be aiming at this doe at the water hole in good light on a relatively calm day in an early hunting season before the water freezes?
Is it going to be a #1, #2 or a #3 hold?
Thats where this thread more or less started, right?

Some might consider does potentially dangerous I guess...lol But likely not most.

[KegRiver]

A screw loose, I don't see it that way, but certainly, all things being equal, the closer you get the harder it becomes to remain undetected.

Just because a person is a rifle hunter does not mean they don't know how to get close, or what close means. Is ten yards close enough ?

It's the same argument. If you shoot at a Deer 1,000 yards away you must no know how to hunt. Not.

If you use a rifle you must no know what close really is or how to get close.
It just ain't so folks.

I have never tried hunting with a bow, but I have stalked to within 20 yards of both Moose and Deer many times in my life. And until recently I did it without the benefit of camouflage or scent blockers or any fancy technological.

Wool pants and shirt, Moose hide moccasins a slight breeze and lots of time are all I need to get within 20 yards of most game animals I hunt.

Really anyone can do it, all it takes is patience, some information and practice. It isn't a special skill, only a skill.

Long range shooting is a special skill. I can't do it and never will be able to because my hands aren't steady enough. I mean I vibrate. I always have.
With each passing year it gets worse, so much so that now I have trouble picking up small things like a grain of rice, and forget about drawing a straight line, I have always needed a ruler to keep my lines from making a snake dizzy.

[sheepguide]

Originally Posted by KegRiver

A screw loose, I don't see it that way, but certainly, all things being equal, the closer you get the harder it becomes to remain undetected.

Just because a person is a rifle hunter does not mean they don't know how to get close, or what close means. Is ten yards close enough ?

It's the same argument. If you shoot at a Deer 1,000 yards away you must no know how to hunt. Not.

If you use a rifle you must no know what close really is or how to get close.
It just ain't so folks.

I have never tried hunting with a bow, but I have stalked to within 20 yards of both Moose and Deer many times in my life. And until recently I did it without the benefit of camouflage or scent blockers or any fancy technological.

Wool pants and shirt, Moose hide moccasins a slight breeze and lots of time are all I need to get within 20 yards of most game animals I hunt.

Really anyone can do it, all it takes is patience, some information and practice. It isn't a special skill, only a skill.

Long range shooting is a special skill. I can't do it and never will be able to because my hands aren't steady enough. I mean I vibrate. I always have.
With each passing year it gets worse, so much so that now I have trouble picking up small things like a grain of rice, and forget about drawing a straight line, I have always needed a ruler to keep my lines from making a snake dizzy.

So in a condensed version do you need more hunting skill to get to 20yrds than 1000yrds?
Was just stating that hunting skill will get you close, and shooting skill will get it done a great distances.

Like I said a great hunter doesnt need to shoot far and a great shooter doesnt need to be as good of a hunter.
Two very real skills but two very different skills.
SG