Dog Abuse?

Long story but have to vent.

The fiancee and I had her best friend and husband over for supper tonight. Our(her) 7 year old yorkie dog tried to nip the fellows leg. He warned the dog that if he did nip him it would be the last time. The fiancee warned the fellow that he better not. Later in the evening the fellow had to leave for a bit but when he returned the dog nipped him. The fellow first said he kicked the dog and stated" I warned you". The fiancee asked him if he kicked the dog and the fellow then said "no I just pushed him away with my foot". The fiancee said that is not acceptable here, this is his home you are a stranger, and asked him to leave. He did after picking up his stuff. Crappy part is the wife is supposed to be a bridesmaid this summer.After he went out to the car she said that her husband can be an as#hole and that it was fine with her.

I didn't say a word which now I regret but I think I could have or should have taken him in the yard and tried the same thing on him.

I feel bad that I didn't say something in support of the fiancee .

Don't know how this going to pan out but sure feels crappy around here now.

[Rackmastr]

I think you have 2 problems on your hand...

First off, NO dog should 'nip' at someone. That needs to be dealt with. He is an invited guest and your dog is biting at him. Thats a serious problem that the dog owner should be dealing with and not allowing.

Second problem is of course your own personal relationship with the guy. Personally, I think an apology from BOTH sides would be important. A guest in a house should never have to 'defend' himself over getting bit by a dog, and I would think an apology to the person who attempted to stop your dog from doing something would be obvious.

The dog owner needs to do something to discipline a dog that is biting. If a dog bites me, he's going to get some shoe leather or I'd be having a very serious talk to the owner.

5 lb dog vs. 200lb man= no contest. I know that is just a dog but what if you had company and your teething toddler but you on the foot, would you kick the kid/ This is how we feel about this dog. This isn't normal for this dog to do this but now we know the issue with the dog but nobody comes in this house and abuses anyone or anything period.

[Rackmastr]

Well hey...if you're going to compare a toddler to a dog then I guess you're set in your ways. Where I come from, I dont get invited into a house and get bit by a dog.....period.

I guess when the dog chews on some kid's face or bites someone deep enough to cause you legal action it might change your mind. As a dog owner, if your dog bites another HUMAN you should both be responsible for the actions and correct it, and apologize immensely to the person who the dog bit and realize you have a problem with the dog.

Nowhere did I say it was a 'contest'.

[NBFK]

I have no use for a dog like that. If my dog bit someone I would not say its because your a stranger in my house. Sorry its too late when you have to drive a kid to the hospital with a bite to the face. Maybe the owners should get kicked for letting the dog nip people. Just my thoughts

[Shmag]

Originally Posted by Rackmastr

Well hey...if you're going to compare a toddler to a dog then I guess you're set in your ways. Where I come from, I dont get invited into a house and get bit by a dog.....period.

I guess when the dog chews on some kid's face or bites someone deep enough to cause you legal action it might change your mind. As a dog owner, if your dog bites another HUMAN you should both be responsible for the actions and correct it, and apologize immensely to the person who the dog bit and realize you have a problem with the dog.

Nowhere did I say it was a 'contest'.

X2...Well said

[PoppaW]

Dogs can be a very good judge of character. But in all fairness a bark or growl would do. I respect you for protecting your family unit, but a dog that bites is a bad thing. What if it was a kid? At least you won't have to worry about that guy coming back.

[hillbillyreefer]

NO dog, I repeat NO dog bites me without retribution. I don't care if it's a poodle or healer. The last dog I owned that nipped someone did not do it again. I also don't care who owns the dog, best friend or worst foe. I love dogs and even allow one to live in my home, but was ripped up by one when I was a kid. I still have a scar from my nostril down to my lip, you can't really notice it now 37 years later but it is there.

[nube]

Good thoughts Rack and well said. I am glad that it was not me or the pooch would have had more than a love tap. I absolutely can not stand tiny useless yappy dogs. I have no use for them. Sorry to offend but you wanted peoples thoughts here.
The problem will come later when you have no friends that want to visit the house. 1 because the dog bites and 2 because you protect it like a kid even when it deserves to be scolded.

[trouty]

are you planning on having kids? that's some backazzward thinking you got there.

[Erik]

I can understand your frustration with this guest, I'd have to say that his table manners weren't really the best and if someone told me that they kicked my dog I would get really hot under the collar too....

But, I'd have to agree with the others that if a dog is nipping then you have a problem and it is your responsibilty as the owner to solve that problem.

Try this:

If the dog nips, put your thumb in its collar, grab its front leg with that same hand and flip it over and then yell "no" like you are being murdered (as loud as you can). Then wait until it stops squirming before letting it down. If you do that one or two times when it nips you then it's gonna think twice about ever trying that again, and it should work for your guests too.

[nube]

Got 4 kids there TROUTY. I have never beat them if that is what you are thinking but they know when they have made a bad choice and from what I have been told many times by others I have very well mannered kids. They are taught that there are choices and consequences to those choices if they make the wrong choice. If more parents would teach their kids in this world instead of sloughing off bad decisions the world would be a whole better place.
Know don't get me started on what I think about the law system and consequences

[hansol]

Ditch,

Subsitute 7lbs dog for 60lbs dog. Or 150lbs dog. Would it still be "okay" for those dogs to "nip", aka bite?

No dogs should be allowed to nip at people, ever. If they do, you have to sort it out quickly.

That being said, if someone kicked my pup I'd be ****ed too, but you have to see it for what it is.

[AxeMan]

I think there might be 3 problems here. First and foremost the dog's owner for even allowing the dog to become confrontational to an invited guest to your home. Secondly the dog, but it is a dog and only acts as it is trained or allowed to. Thirdly, your attitude for wanting to take him out in the yard and having words with him. I don't think I would be too amused at your dog if I was in that position.

[Cowtown guy]

[QUOTE=ditchdonkey;497290]5 lb dog vs. 200lb man= no contest. [QUOTE]

I agree 100%. We shouldn't even be having this conversation.

No dog ever gets to bite a human.

EVER!

There is a hierarchy and that dog doesn't know it. The fella told the fiance that there would be repercussions. It sounds to me like the dog wasn't reprimanded for its actions the first time it nipped. The second time it was. Maybe this isn't how you would reprimand the dog, but remember you didn't do anything the first time either.

I have 3 labs and my 9 year old niece is terrified of them because of a very similar incident you described above. Just a little American Eskimo that only nips at people. Never bites. Well my niece was coming in the door to their place and bent over to untie her shoes. The dog grabbed her by the face and shook her pretty good. Guess what they did to that dog. They picked it up and scolded it!

Now there's a terrified little girl that doesn't want to be in the same room as the 3 most docile dogs in Alberta. Sound fair?

No dog gets to bite a human. EVER! It can't be said enough.

Sorry if I sound harsh but I see the other side. Believe me if a dog of mine was ever struck for no reason I'd be in jail. If it bit a guest I invited into my home it would be dealt with immediately so the dog knows this isn't acceptable. Dealing with it 2 minutes later doesn't work. The dog doesn't know what it is being reprimanded for.

Wow sorry this is so long winded.

[theduke]

im agreeing with rack 100% on both his replies

[BlackHeart]

I had some interesting experiences with biting dogs.

1) Had a lab/shepard cross dog, smart, knew the rules and learnt fast, but was also a little too independent minded as well at times. Was a bit nippy as puppy as well, but that was very quickly dealt with and eliminated long ago.

Sudden I hear a yelp,snarl,and kid scream from the living room. I rush in and find that the dog has bite my 3 year old boy on the cheek. Luckily (for both of them) it was not bad. Just a red surface scratch from his eye downward.
What the he77. Going to be a dead dog.

Well as things calm down, it appears that the dog was sleeping in the middle of the room. The 3year old after petting the dog for a while and the dog ignoring his efforts to get it up, decide to really wake it up (and its funny now but then wasn't)....by biting the dog on the ear. Quite the suprise for everyone.

Normally there is no second chances with a biting dog - it has crossed a boundary that can't be uncrossed - but in this case I had to make an exception.

I know of two other people that have had their faces bit by dogs. One from a little tiny house pet and he needed surgery to repair his nose.

Actually now that the person you mentioned who owns this dog knows that it has a tendency to bite, their legal responsibility and potential negligence has gone way up.

I have had a relative's dog sneak up behind me, bite my hand (quite hard and painful) so that I dropped my sandwich and it was gone before I knew what hit me. Obviously he has developed this neat little trick and used it before. That dog has a hard overdue lesson coming to him. The relative has been warned, the next time it happens to me or anyone in my family, the dog will get the sh1t kicked out of him until he coughs up that sandwich. Your choice - kennel the curr or I will train him the hard way because they have been irresponsible in neglecting this dogs obeidence. (They also seem to put dogs on the same level as people-huh-funny hey)

Tap the dog. He77 he should have made a 50yd field goal with it.
You also seem to put dogs on par with people. Thats bad for those around you and very bad for the dogs. Why don't you tell him that you would like to take him out to the yard - that way he will know just where you place people(him) and dogs.

Most of the people I know who have this attitude about dogs really are a menace and are completely ignorant of a dogs true nature. Most of their dogs are treated as family/humans and have no obedience. They are not a pleasure to have around but are an irritable, tempermental, useless, demanding, self absorbed, waste of table scaps.

I can only hope that you get educated on dogs before you own them and they do some kid some serious damage.

[pickrel pat]

at yourself for believing the dog is in the right maybe....

[GeoTrekr]

You see the dog as a member of your family (which is ok), but that it can do no wrong (which is not ok).

The dog senses your complacency around this issue (and possibly others) and is currently enjoying his/her position as 'pack leader' of your household. You need to take him/her down a notch.

7 lbs or 120 lbs, a 'nipping' (BITING) dog is a problem that needs to be corrected.

It has been my experience that the smaller dogs are often much less well behaved than their larger counterparts, and I suspect it has something to do with the behavior being viewed as cute, or laughed off.

Dogs are not children, and you have to understand some animal psychology to handle one, and it is often counter-intuitive. Example: When my mom takes the dog to the vet, he's excited, and is constantly restless because she is constantly paying attention to him, and petting/rubbing him a LOT more for a lot longer than usual, and doing the "it's okay, it's okay" routine. This keeps the dog upset/excited, and you get to deal with the dog stressing the whole time you're in the waiting room.

When I take the dog to the vet, I tell him to sit or go down, and I hold the lead loosely. I might give him a treat or a pat for listening, and then that's it. Just like sitting at home watching TV or whatever, I ignore him. He usually lies quietly at my feet or casually glances around at the goings-on around him until our appointment.

I prefer the latter scenario, YMMV.

[TangoKilo]

Originally Posted by Rackmastr

I think you have 2 problems on your hand...

First off, NO dog should 'nip' at someone. That needs to be dealt with. He is an invited guest and your dog is biting at him. Thats a serious problem that the dog owner should be dealing with and not allowing.

Second problem is of course your own personal relationship with the guy. Personally, I think an apology from BOTH sides would be important. A guest in a house should never have to 'defend' himself over getting bit by a dog, and I would think an apology to the person who attempted to stop your dog from doing something would be obvious.

The dog owner needs to do something to discipline a dog that is biting. If a dog bites me, he's going to get some shoe leather or I'd be having a very serious talk to the owner.

I'm 100% in agreement with Rackmastr.

A dog does not get to bite any human PERIOD!

As far as discipline is concerned, a dog is not a child.

[Sporty]

I agree with Rackmaster, a dog should never be allowed to bite! I own an American Eskimo, I've known from the time I got him that Eskies are the most notorious biters besides Cocker Spaniels and because I knew that I worked hard with my dog when he was younger to ensure that he would never bite. He's been socialized well, I'd even have friends come in with hoodies so he could be exposed to many types of people and what they wear that can trigger a response in dogs, I've let nieces and nephews handle him and his food. I just recently had to take him to the vet for an ear problem and she was amazed at how well she could handle him without him getting irritated. I did what I had to ensure that my dog would never bite and I'm confident that he won't. As others have said, you don't ever want to be faced with your dog biting yours or someone elses kid, ever. If you've ever been bitten good by a dog when you're a kid that is a hard thing to get over, I was bitten by a dog, a poor tied up neglected lab to boot, he ripped a chunk out of me that required over 50 stitches inside and out. To this day I still carry a fear of dogs with me and that in itself is a bad thing also since confrontional dogs will sense that fear.

For the record, I wouldn't let my kids get away with biting my visiters either! ;p

[packhuntr]

Thats about the worst thing a dog can do. You are not looking good right now. If your curious about how it goes with bad dog owners,,, ask the people that he is telling about the incident, ; what he has been saying about you and your silence, your dog, and your wife that kicked him out of the house for protecting himself against an agressive dog... You arent looking good in the community, lets just put it that way. A good dog will make you look good, and a bad one, well, you know all about it apparently. A wife that you cannot control,,, well... Men are judged on thier actions.

[jaylow?]

why is it dog abuse to kick a dog that bites you? if it had biten one of my kids i would put its head through the floor. i have no sympathy for people aggresive dogs. my son was attacked last summer by a stray out at the cabin. chewed his leg up . if i had a rifle at the time the dog would have been walked into the bush.

[bisonhunter]

so you want to take the guy outside for defending himself against an attacking animal? sheeshkabobs man, i would be hat in hand begging the guy for forgiveness. especially when the dog was aggressive with the guy earlier, and the fella warned you what would happen. you could have prevented the entire episode by putting the dog in a room or outside. as for the dog, they can be replaced with friendlier ones, or sent to a proper trainer. i'm all for people loving their pets, but they need to know their place when it comes to humans.
hopefully the answers here will help you to put things in perspective,
cheers

[vettedreamer]

[QUOTE=Cowtown guy;497354][QUOTE=ditchdonkey;497290]5 lb dog vs. 200lb man= no contest.

I agree 100%. We shouldn't even be having this conversation.

No dog ever gets to bite a human.

EVER!

There is a hierarchy and that dog doesn't know it. The fella told the fiance that there would be repercussions. It sounds to me like the dog wasn't reprimanded for its actions the first time it nipped. The second time it was. Maybe this isn't how you would reprimand the dog, but remember you didn't do anything the first time either.

I have 3 labs and my 9 year old niece is terrified of them because of a very similar incident you described above. Just a little American Eskimo that only nips at people. Never bites. Well my niece was coming in the door to their place and bent over to untie her shoes. The dog grabbed her by the face and shook her pretty good. Guess what they did to that dog. They picked it up and scolded it!

Now there's a terrified little girl that doesn't want to be in the same room as the 3 most docile dogs in Alberta. Sound fair?

No dog gets to bite a human. EVER! It can't be said enough.

Sorry if I sound harsh but I see the other side. Believe me if a dog of mine was ever struck for no reason I'd be in jail. If it bit a guest I invited into my home it would be dealt with immediately so the dog knows this isn't acceptable. Dealing with it 2 minutes later doesn't work. The dog doesn't know what it is being reprimanded for.

Wow sorry this is so long winded.

X2
its all about hierarchy learn this word in the kanine language

[javlin101]

We have an 80lb Shep/Collie cross, 4 kids 8-18yr, 3 cats at home. The dog joined our family at about 1 yr old. She was shown the higharcy of the family right from the start & to be honest she fits in at the bottom of the chain. Even the cats boss her around. The thing is we taught the kids to show her respect & if she barks at them it is her way of saying enough leave me alone. In 4 years we have never had a problem & if guests come over her worst habit is shoving her nose in their crotch to check them out. Can be embarrassing sometimes but her way of saying hello. She is part of the family as well as the cats but ground rules must be established right away. Dogs learn very quickly & pickup on what they can get away with & what they can't.

In this issue I think

1. The dog by breed is high strung & excitable so extra care should be taken.
2. The dog has been raised as an equal in the family so thinks its actions are acceptable.
3. If the dog tried to nip the guest it should have been caged or put in a room away from everyone. This tells the dog its actions are un-acceptable & dogs are pack animals this is a lesson they will remember.
4. Agreed hitting, kicking or shoving would be an issue in my house. However it should not have got to this stage in the first place. The owner should have done something before the second occurrence happened.
5. To many people raise their dogs like this to be an equal part of the family & this affects their social skills. "My house, I don't like you, I gonna bite".

If my kid bit someone or another child a pop on the bottom & time out would be in order. Why would it be any different for your dog?

Dogs are not stupid animals & should not be treated as equals in your family. They can become very dangerous (even small ones) under the right conditions.

My thoughts anywho
Jim

[270WIN]

Originally Posted by ditchdonkey

Long story but have to vent.

The fiancee and I had her best friend and husband over for supper tonight. Our(her) 7 year old yorkie dog tried to nip the fellows leg. He warned the dog that if he did nip him it would be the last time. The fiancee warned the fellow that he better not. Later in the evening the fellow had to leave for a bit but when he returned the dog nipped him. The fellow first said he kicked the dog and stated" I warned you". The fiancee asked him if he kicked the dog and the fellow then said "no I just pushed him away with my foot". The fiancee said that is not acceptable here, this is his home you are a stranger, and asked him to leave. He did after picking up his stuff. Crappy part is the wife is supposed to be a bridesmaid this summer.After he went out to the car she said that her husband can be an as#hole and that it was fine with her.

I didn't say a word which now I regret but I think I could have or should have taken him in the yard and tried the same thing on him.

I feel bad that I didn't say something in support of the fiancee .

Don't know how this going to pan out but sure feels crappy around here now.

I've owned dogs continuously for the last 35 years. Here's my contribution to this discussion:

If you're going to own a dog you have to make a choice. One of you has to be the boss. The boss can be either the owner or the dog and the choice is entirely up to you. Sounds like, in your case, you've decided it will be the dog and this is fine if that's really the way you want it. Just have the courtesy not to inflict your spoiled mut on your guests and others who may come in contact with it.

[shooter55]

I concur with the theme here. While the dog is part of the family, it must respect the family and other non threatening people. I have encountered this type of nonsense before - jogging and be set upon by an angry little mutt - after defending myself with a good sharp kick, having the owner freak out on me...you gotta control your dog....put him in a bedroom or crate if he is behaving badly. there never should be an issue where a guest or a child is in danger of being bitten by a family pet.
This is not dog abuse, this is an issue of someone allowing the dog to rule the pack or the house and you need to get the dog and owner properly aligned or this will continue to occur. Dogs require discipline and need to understand their place in the home or the pack.
and please don't ask for 2 days off to mourn the passing of Little Brutus when he goes to doggie heaven...goodness, I guess I am just old fashioned.

[super7mag]

A Dog is a Dog sound like your fiancee treats it like a kid or a human, so it gets away with crap that it should not, sounds like puppy got a small love tap, could have easily been a 40 yrd punt, if the guy really wanted to abuse the animal. You should have taken his warning to the dog as a suggestion to put it in another room while company was over.

[Grizzly Adams]

Originally Posted by 270WIN

I've owned dogs continuously for the last 35 years. Here's my contribution to this discussion:

If you're going to own a dog you have to make a choice. One of you has to be the boss. The boss can be either the owner or the dog and the choice is entirely up to you. Sounds like, in your case, you've decided it will be the dog and this is fine if that's really the way you want it. Just have the courtesy not to inflict your spoiled mut on your guests and others who may come in contact with it.

x2 Consider yourself lucky, if you don't get sued, especially since you did your best to **** the guy off.
Grizz