Subsistence hunting- OFFICIAL thread

[CanuckShooter]

Originally Posted by Cowtown guy

Good on you. But you stated exactly the problem that I have. I have no problem with subsistence hunting if people need the meat. Every person that kills an animal in Alberta should have to report it. Period.

Why would a native or a white subsistence hunter be opposed at all to registering their kill?

It is only for the better ability to allot tags for the licensed hunter preventing overharvest, which is nothing but good for the animals that we are being told that the natives care for.

How can anyone really tell how many tags should be dished out?

You cannot manage game populations based on harvest statistics, so at best any reporting done is nothing more than a cute tool. I really have a hard time understanding why people think harvest reporting is so critical??

Really, they have no idea how many animals are killed by wolves, bears, cats, trains, trucks, disease, old age, drowning etc etc etc....so how can knowing that 5 moose were killed by white guy, 2 moose were killed by natives and 1 one moose was taken by a guided hunter really make any difference?

I believe our wildlife populations need constant monitoring in order to determine, with a little bit of credibility, what a manageable harvest level is. Where I live moose populations dropped by up to 50% in some areas and the powers that be had NO IDEA that it was happening.

You ask why a FN would be reluctant to report a harvest? I'd wager a guess it's because they don't see any benefit to providing them with a statistic that will only be used to try and justify reducing or controlling their harvest.

[CanuckShooter]

Originally Posted by Kurt505

That is great, but unfortunately you are an acception to the rule. Waiting for education to open eyes, without enforcement will never come to pass, I'm sure you know that as well as I do.

I'm not even suggesting to abolish harvesting rights, simply regulate them to a reasonable amount and chugg wants me to give up my house, unfortunately his attitude is the most prevalent amongst treaties.

You want to regulate them to a reasonable amount? Is that like an equal division? Between FNs, Alberta Resident hunters, alien guided hunters, and non resident Canadians???

Or would you propose that game harvests be regulated on a per capita basis? Say 10% FN population in an area gets 10% of the tags??

[Kurt505]

Originally Posted by CanuckShooter

You want to regulate them to a reasonable amount? Is that like an equal division? Between FNs, Alberta Resident hunters, alien guided hunters, and non resident Canadians???

Or would you propose that game harvests be regulated on a per capita basis? Say 10% FN population in an area gets 10% of the tags??

I say like non status Canadians, x amount per person with registration mandatory so there is no need to purchase a license. The rest are already regulated.

[CanuckShooter]

Originally Posted by Kurt505

I say like non status Canadians, x amount per person with registration mandatory so there is no need to purchase a license. The rest are already regulated.

I see, your suggesting the same annual limits, and I presume seasons, as everyone else? That sounds pretty good to me.

Is registration already mandatory for everybody else? Or are is that the trade off for not having to purchase a license??

Another question, if there are 10 in the household do they all get X amount per person?

[davebuck]

150 Indians kill 400 bull elk an there is two more hunts in February they won't need a cull next year .maybe 300 Indians next hunt Will take 900 bulls

[CanuckShooter]

Originally Posted by davebuck

150 Indians kill 400 bull elk an there is two more hunts in February they won't need a cull next year .maybe 300 Indians next hunt Will take 900 bulls

Boy that is a lot of animals to take out...are there really that many there?? ONe good thing I guess is they won't have to kill any moose or deer for meat with all that elk meat on hand??

[Kurt505]

Originally Posted by CanuckShooter

I see, your suggesting the same annual limits, and I presume seasons, as everyone else? That sounds pretty good to me.

Is registration already mandatory for everybody else? Or are is that the trade off for not having to purchase a license??

Another question, if there are 10 in the household do they all get X amount per person?

I was thinking one animal of every species, male or female per person period. 10 people in the family, 10 moose, 10 elk, 10 deer, both wt and mule, 10 antelope, 10 sheep, 10 goats. But like the white man, each member has to shoot their own animal. The registration is to avoid having tags. If it makes you feel better just have tags like a white man, only free, exclude the registration but there has to be some method of controlling the regulation. Out of respect for the wildlife and conservation, the season is set up for non status hunters to help preserve our wildlife, maybe that's something you should consider practicing yourself to do your part. Buy a vaccum sealer, it will preserve your meat for up to three years. I did.

I don't see this as being unfair to status people, but I do see it going a long way in building a friendlier relationship between fellow hunters.

Oh ya, one more thing, there would be no need for a hunter training course as that is something which can be passed on as a traditional way of life. It would be a win win situation, you would be able to teach hunting while practicing conservation. Also you wouldn't have any white man whining because he thinks your killing all his trophys.

[CanuckShooter]

Originally Posted by Kurt505

I was thinking one animal of every species, male or female per person period. 10 people in the family, 10 moose, 10 elk, 10 deer, both wt and mule, 10 antelope, 10 sheep, 10 goats. But like the white man, each member has to shoot their own animal. The registration is to avoid having tags. If it makes you feel better just have tags like a white man, only free, exclude the registration but there has to be some method of controlling the regulation. Out of respect for the wildlife and conservation, the season is set up for non status hunters to help preserve our wildlife, maybe that's something you should consider practicing yourself to do your part. Buy a vaccum sealer, it will preserve your meat for up to three years. I did.

I don't see this as being unfair to status people, but I do see it going a long way in building a friendlier relationship between fellow hunters.

So you don't anticipate complaints about 10 moose, 10 elk, 10 deer, both wt and mule, 10 antelope, 10 sheep, 10 goats....all being killed for a household of 10 people?

Seasons?? Your suggesting seasons that may not meld well with other cultural practices, like berry picking and fishing.....perhaps it would make sense to have it as an annual allowance by calendar year?

[riden]

Originally Posted by iceburg

Right, this wasn't very prevalent though.

I am going by memory here.

It was late 70's or early 80's and it was everyone's favourite PM, Pierre Trudeau. He is the PM who coined the term Citizen Plus, in reference to natives.

Ottawa passed legislation stating that when a status woman married a white man, she lost status and so did the kids they had. Really, it was no more than an effort to decrease the number of status natives Canada had, for no good reason other than the Fed's wanted to decrease the number of carded natives.

It was overturned in court.

[norwestalta]

Originally Posted by Kurt505

I was thinking one animal of every species, male or female per person period. 10 people in the family, 10 moose, 10 elk, 10 deer, both wt and mule, 10 antelope, 10 sheep, 10 goats. But like the white man, each member has to shoot their own animal. The registration is to avoid having tags. If it makes you feel better just have tags like a white man, only free, exclude the registration but there has to be some method of controlling the regulation. Out of respect for the wildlife and conservation, the season is set up for non status hunters to help preserve our wildlife, maybe that's something you should consider practicing yourself to do your part. Buy a vaccum sealer, it will preserve your meat for up to three years. I did.

I don't see this as being unfair to status people, but I do see it going a long way in building a friendlier relationship between fellow hunters.

Oh ya, one more thing, there would be no need for a hunter training course as that is something which can be passed on as a traditional way of life. It would be a win win situation, you would be able to teach hunting while practicing conservation. Also you wouldn't have any white man whining because he thinks your killing all his trophys.

And how is this equality?
Unless they are legitimate subsistence hunters what's the matter with everyone buying a tag.

[muleguide]

What a joke!

[dmcbride]

Originally Posted by Kurt505

I was thinking one animal of every species, male or female per person period. 10 people in the family, 10 moose, 10 elk, 10 deer, both wt and mule, 10 antelope, 10 sheep, 10 goats. But like the white man, each member has to shoot their own animal. The registration is to avoid having tags. If it makes you feel better just have tags like a white man, only free, exclude the registration but there has to be some method of controlling the regulation. Out of respect for the wildlife and conservation, the season is set up for non status hunters to help preserve our wildlife, maybe that's something you should consider practicing yourself to do your part. Buy a vaccum sealer, it will preserve your meat for up to three years. I did.

I don't see this as being unfair to status people, but I do see it going a long way in building a friendlier relationship between fellow hunters.

Oh ya, one more thing, there would be no need for a hunter training course as that is something which can be passed on as a traditional way of life. It would be a win win situation, you would be able to teach hunting while practicing conservation. Also you wouldn't have any white man whining because he thinks your killing all his trophys.

I think your idea is pretty fair.The problem is traditionally not everybody hunts. I suspect that is why we always hear these stories of the reefer truck.

[Kurt505]

Originally Posted by CanuckShooter

So you don't anticipate complaints about 10 moose, 10 elk, 10 deer, both wt and mule, 10 antelope, 10 sheep, 10 goats....all being killed for a household of 10 people?

Seasons?? Your suggesting seasons that may not meld well with other cultural practices, like berry picking and fishing.....perhaps it would make sense to have it as an annual allowance by calendar year?

has the complaints stopped you so far? There would be way less complaining than what there is now!

Of course some will complain, some complain about non status hunters shooting does and fawns just to fill their supplemental tags, but this is about wildlife management not running a complaint line. Fact is, a family of 10 can live off of 2 moose, 2 deer, and 2 elk over a year, the rest would be a waste, but if that's what you're into....

Are you seriously whining about shooting animals during the time of year when it will have the least amount of effect of the survival rate of the species? Holy smokes man, pack a rifle while you're berry picking, or take turns with the wife.

I have no rights. I have a freezer full of moose, elk, deer, walleye, pike, and trout. None of it is poached. If I can manage to do that with only one hunting license and three fishing licenses out of a family of four, I'm sure you'd do ok.

[Kurt505]

Originally Posted by norwestalta

And how is this equality?
Unless they are legitimate subsistence hunters what's the matter with everyone buying a tag.

It's a compromise, baby steps.

[norwestalta]

Originally Posted by Kurt505

It's a compromise, baby steps.

Isn't this whole thing about equality? Not how many animals will sustain a family. So we take one baby step in 2015 and it takes another 3 generations to take another.

[Speckle55]

Any Albertan can Subsistence hunt if you qualify
December 14, 2007
Changes made to Subsistence Hunting Licence
Edmonton... It is now easier for Albertans who rely on wild meat for sustenance to apply for a special hunting licence for moose, elk or deer. The Subsistence Hunting Licence is available to qualified applicants free of charge from any Fish and Wildlife District office.
Although this licence is not new, the provincial government has made the following changes to make it available to more Albertans.
• Licences may now be used anywhere in the province, not just north of Highway 16.
• Licences are now available all year.
• Licence holders may take moose, elk or deer based on local game populations.
In addition, the $5 fee for a Domestic Fishing Licence has been dropped. This licence can now be obtained free of charge by eligible applicants.
Ted Morton, Minister of Sustainable Resource Development, said that he hoped the changes would help Alberta families in need. He also noted that they address the difficult situation of some Métis who have not yet applied for or received confirmation of their harvesting rights, but need to hunt or fish to feed their families.
“There’s no need for anyone to break the law to get meat for their family,” Morton said. “Just come in to one of our local offices and apply for a licence.”
A person applying for either licence must show evidence that they, or their family, have no other source of meat or that they have a special health requirement for wild meat.
For more information on the Subsistence Hunting Licence and the Domestic Fishing Licence, including the location of the nearest fish and wildlife office, call Service Alberta at 310-0000.
Alberta’s Subsistence Hunting Licence is part of Premier Ed Stelmach’s plan to secure Alberta’s future by building communities, greening our growth and creating opportunity.
Media enquiries may be directed to:
Darcy Whiteside Public Affairs Officer Sustainable Resource Development 780 427-8636
To call




Subsistence hunting licence - eligibility
39(1) A person is eligible to obtain or hold a subsistence hunting
licence if and only if
Section 40 AR 143/97
WILDLIFE REGULATION
42
(a) he is a resident, and
(b) the Minister is satisfied that he is in dire need of
sustenance for any of his family members, including his
adult interdependent partner.
(2) Repealed AR 234/2007 s2.
AR 143/97 s39;109/2003;234/2007
Subsistence hunting licence - entitlements
40(1) A subsistence hunting licence authorizes its holder, if any of
his family members, including an adult interdependent partner, is in
dire need of sustenance, to hunt the kind or kinds of animal, from
among moose, elk and deer, and in the number, during the period
and in the area, specified in the licence.
(2) The period referred to in subsection (1) may, if the licence so
specifies, be outside or notwithstanding the lack of an open season.
AR 143/97 s40;109/2003;234/2007


This is what is happening in States as Elk have cause major Habitat changes and damage to ecosystem

http://www.denverpost.com/opinion/ci...is-working-out

Food for Thought

David

[Kurt505]

Originally Posted by norwestalta

Isn't this whole thing about equality? Not how many animals will sustain a family. So we take one baby step in 2015 and it takes another 3 generations to take another.

It can't be a take take situation if it's going to work.

If it's total equality you're after, it's not going to happen over night. People are going to sit around a table, and if there is going to be any progress it'll have to come to a mutual agreement. I don't see it being as a loss for either side.

[daries]

I have been hunting in Alberta for a long time, I have seen alot of things like last year when i was driving home in the Calgary area in the bow zone when i saw a truck driving on posted land and a guy jump out and shoot a huge mulie buck. I phoned fish and game and they caught them well I guess long story short it was a non native with a native with a treaty card . I guess that's the worst of both worlds. Anyway have no issues if they shoot cows but the bulls should be on draw for everyone including natives .

[daries]

Sorry forgot to put in my post it was a rifle in the bow zone

[boonie]

Originally Posted by Winch101

This is playing out on several USA hunting sites .

The photo is described as " 400 Bull Elk slaughtered by 150

Saskatchewan natives , in Suffield Alberta .https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?f...7777017&type=1

I thought that there was no picture taking on the base.

[SmokinJoe]

Originally Posted by boonie

I thought that there was no picture taking on the base.

There isn't, and I'd love to know where guys get these numbers. This thread is going to be published as a fantasy novel.

Kurt, if any government official came to my office with any of the less than well thought ideas you pitching he would leave with an empty brief case and uncomfortable bottom.

Figure out what the problems actually are before trying to brew up solutions. This thread is about subsistence hunting, by definition it has nothing to do with First Nations people, and I'm tired of having to explain to you that our portion of the law is not broken. Stop thinking you can fix it.

My office has been watching this thread since the beginning, and it's not helping future considerations for non FN people.

[58thecat]

Hunting in Canada should be equal for all, same rules,regulations etc therefore there will be no abuse or very little? Either way if caught the fines etc are equal for all.
Signing off from Mexico got to go fishing now

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by SmokinJoe

There isn't, and I'd love to know where guys get these numbers. This thread is going to be published as a fantasy novel.

Kurt, if any government official came to my office with any of the less than well thought ideas you pitching he would leave with an empty brief case and uncomfortable bottom.

Figure out what the problems actually are before trying to brew up solutions. This thread is about subsistence hunting, by definition it has nothing to do with First Nations people, and I'm tired of having to explain to you that our portion of the law is not broken. Stop thinking you can fix it.

My office has been watching this thread since the beginning, and it's not helping future considerations for non FN people.

So according to you, your portion of the law is not broken, so it's only non aboriginal people that need to make changes? A person couldn't possibly be more biased or closed minded. And you wonder why the government is not receptive to your ideas.

[Flatlandliver]

Originally Posted by 58thecat

Hunting in Canada should be equal for all, same rules,regulations etc therefore there will be no abuse or very little? Either way if caught the fines etc are equal for all.
Signing off from Mexico got to go fishing now

O boy, perhaps we missed the seven thousand threads on poaching and trespassing in Nov.
This is an extremely divisive issue and I find myself going back and forth all the time but there is certainly enough abuse of rights and privileges on both sides to go around.
Good luck in Mexico cat.

[chugg]

Originally Posted by SmokinJoe

There isn't, and I'd love to know where guys get these numbers. This thread is going to be published as a fantasy novel.

Kurt, if any government official came to my office with any of the less than well thought ideas you pitching he would leave with an empty brief case and uncomfortable bottom.

Figure out what the problems actually are before trying to brew up solutions. This thread is about subsistence hunting, by definition it has nothing to do with First Nations people, and I'm tired of having to explain to you that our portion of the law is not broken. Stop thinking you can fix it.

My office has been watching this thread since the beginning, and it's not helping future considerations for non FN people.

Thank you SmokinJoe the numbers are muir rumours

[chugg]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

So according to you, your portion of the law is not broken, so it's only non aboriginal people that need to make changes? A person couldn't possibly be more biased or closed minded. And you wonder why the government is not receptive to your ideas.

Thats right the law is not broken and that is a fact. If you were really worried about numbers maybe pay more attention to the ski hills, golf courses and development that is pushing animals out of their natural habitats and migratory routes

[chugg]

Originally Posted by Kurt505

It can't be a take take situation if it's going to work.

If it's total equality you're after, it's not going to happen over night. People are going to sit around a table, and if there is going to be any progress it'll have to come to a mutual agreement. I don't see it being as a loss for either side.

I agree with SmokinJoe, why don't you figure out what the problem is before you brew up solutions, why don't you go educate yourself spend some time with native people, you obviously have no idea of there culture and traditions and beliefs. You might think these things are not important ,but remember these things are huge to native people.

[Kurt505]

Originally Posted by chugg

I agree with SmokinJoe, why don't you figure out what the problem is before you brew up solutions, why don't you go educate yourself spend some time with native people, you obviously have no idea of there culture and traditions and beliefs. You might think these things are not important ,but remember these things are huge to native people.

You gotta lose the me me me attitude and look at the big picture here. It's 2015, not 1870. Look at the Canadian population, there is more than just aboriginal people in here.

Your own greed will lead to the collapse of our wildlife if its left as a free for all amongst status, it's just a matter of time. Maybe you should spend some time looking into the big picture, start teaching your people conservation, and realize the animals on this earth belong to no man, but ALL men.

[Lefty-Canuck]

I can't take anything seriously someone says when they use a racial slur as a user name....sorry but if you have no respect for your people how can you expect anyone else to?

Sorry but its hard to accept what you type here as anything that needs to be considered seriously. Poor choice on your part IMHO.

LC

[416 Ultramag]

When the people in power signed those treaties, they had no idea of technology changes coming. Trucks, quads, modern firearms with scopes, paved roads..... In the interest of wildlife conservation the government should able to adjust harvest amounts with both native and non native rights.

If natives are so concerned about their traditional ways of life maybe they should not be hypocritical and hunt in their traditional ways. Not use " white man's " technology if you want to call it that. Bow and arrow only, traditional at that. Hunt with whatever you want on a reserve.

Land owners should also not be allowed to invite natives on their land to wipe out "Albertan owned" game animals after hunting seasons or during hunting seasons. How the heck are we supposed to manage animals when we do that?