Eld-m recovered, 6.5 Grendel, squirrel gun strikes again, bush buck.

[Stinky Coyote]

You’re gonna hate this...

2020 whitetail bush buck

99.8 grains (81.3% retention), 2215 fps impact. 2386 fps launch. Ruger American Ranch 16.1” barrel this time. Hornady Black. 198 yard bang flop. Quartering away, broke second last rib on way in and recovered three pieces all together in the offside brisket meat after it smashed through it, at least 18” penetration with bone to start and bone to finish. Bullet seems a little happier running slower. That’s 7 critters now, 6 big game and 1 coyote with 178 yard average shot distance and 4 yard average recovery distance. Full pics in the link. You made me break out the saw and really necro this one. Now we know the core was likely with the jacket on the muley too but because of the muley thread i went the extra mile for you guys. Usually the necro isn’t that high on my priority but it ended up the right morning for it. You must like apples.

https://www.instagram.com/p/CH4aeP5p...=1v54eqabwbxfx

[Stinky Coyote]

My bad, 2049 fps impact velocity.

[marky_mark]

So the jacket and core separated again?
3 pieces doesn’t = 1

[Stinky Coyote]

Originally Posted by marky_mark

So the jacket and core separated again?
3 pieces doesn’t = 1

Yup, this is what I like, rapid expansion with plenty of sd for game intended, carnage, leaving as much in the ring as possible. When 81.3% is in 2 main pieces with a small third piece of twisted expanded awesomeness at the tail end of its more than long enough journey then I am happy. Shoot what you like, this is just data.

Some added data. 1147 ft/lbs impact. A 24” barrel replicates this 16.1” barrel 200 yard performance at 325 yards. This 16.1” barrel still has 1800 fps at 350 yards.

#deergrenade

[marky_mark]

So these bullets maybe good at impact velocities below 2000 fps, not over
Gotcha

[JD848]

Stinky to tell you the truth I enjoy 99 percent of your post, but telling others to use a match bullet for hunting is the way to go is wrong advice.

To many young hunters will see how accurate they are on paper with a larger cartridge and blow a hole and leave some animal hurt to slowly die.

Shot placement with a good hunting bullet is the way to go, enjoy your hunts and remember what you think is right might not be for the rest.

Cheers and nice deer.

JD

[58thecat]

Jeepers stinky your at it again.....ya got a big spoon for the pot your about to stir....I stand with what I said on another thread...match grade bullets should not be used on game....manufactures of these bullets indicate this and I am sure if you got them to respond to a email about this you would get the same response as you do here.....

[58thecat]

But according to Sierra, "The Match-King bullets are designed for pinpoint accuracy, with no consideration given to what might happen after impact. If the bullet has arrived on target accurately, its job is done at that point. Hunting bullets must perform in a certain manner after impact......

[daveyn]

I'm no ballistics junkie or hand loader looking for the ultimate accuracy/performance formula, just your average hunter who buys good quality factory ammo that seems to work pretty darn well.
I do however have a comment on this thread and a number of other threads promoting the wonder of the 6.5 Grendel.
I have to wonder why anybody who would go to such lengths to seek confirmation and support of something or to promote what they clearly see as a remarkable discovery. There is no personal gain. It can only be to have people acknowledge the brilliance of discovering the wonders of the cartridge.

Find a rifle in a chambering you like and go hunting, most of us are getting along just fine with our .270 to 300 wm cartridges and have no need to post about the destruction and trauma caused by the particular round. Bullets cause trauma, I would prefer to talk about the animal and the experience rather than the hole the bullet made.

[Stinky Coyote]

Agree with all you just said. Even with someone seeking confirmation or support. My confirmations are in the freezer and I need, or ask for, zero support. The cartridge is largely unheard of here, well it was.

Much like sticking up for the little guys, or bring people up to speed on something new. The 6.5 Creedmoor was met with all kinds of resistance in lots of places including here ...that’s what this has been. It’s an awesome cartridge, arguably the most versatile and efficient use of 30 grains of powder period, which is about the same as a 30-30.

Throwing modern design and bullets around that amount of powder is all this is. An educational experience. 30-30 released in 1895, 6.5 Grendel in 2004, 109 years apart. 30-30 effective range 150-200 yards, 6.5 Grendel triple that, and so it should after 109 years. Obviously it would be up to the shooter to be able to extract whatever from whatever but the potential is there for however much you’d like to extract as with all tools a wingnut may want to run.

We all have things we fall for, champion, or stand up for. Lots of resistance on this forum to the latest round of modern cartridges, most 6.5’s of some variant. I think 3 years of education is enough, I will carry on knowing it will do anything I will ask of it here in Alberta.

Tried to be entertaining as well as informative and I will still definitely tease about it from time to time.

Is it the best thing since sliced bread? No. It’s close but no. The most versatile cartridges for Alberta big game would start at 260 rem, 6.5 cm, 7-08 on the small end, 308, 270, 280, 30-06, 7 rem mag as my recommendations. I like 6.5 cm and .270 win most. Factory ammo is part of it but the rest in ballistics. Hand loaders and custom rifle guys can make almost any cartridge infinitely more versatile. Is the 6.5 Grendel a solid choice for lighter recoiling option where the .243 has been the go to for ages? Yup, it can do what factory loaded .243 can do, most anything we need inside 300 yards and it does it on a smaller platform.

Hope y’all enjoyed. Just gonna keep on doing our part, it makes doing our part super easy so no excuses should it not go our way one day, can only blame the shooter.

[OL_JR]

I guess to each their own, there is no doubt that the end result for you has been animals in the freezer and congrats to you and your boy on some successful hunts.

How you interpret what has happened with the bullet and what I interpret might be two different things. Frankly you've illustrated pretty well in these threads why I wouldn't ever pick up an eld-m for hunting. I personally like bullets that hold together a bit better. For a bullet to blast into 3 pieces upon hitting a RIB is not cool. Even for the simple reason that while some of it makes it through the vitals on a well placed shot, you might have pieces go into the guts. I've had it happen before with some speer boat tails loaded hot out of a 25-06. Don't use them anymore and they are a hunting bullet. No reason a well placed shot should turn into an ugly gutting job.

I do appreciate your intel on what is happening even though we may not see things the same way. Just don't understand what the point is you are trying to prove I guess.

[Stinky Coyote]

The rib going in didn’t break it up, all the pieces were together touching with a bunch of shattered bone fragments from the front of the brisket. Had this deer been broadside not a chance of bullet recovery, just like one my kid shot at 238 last year. Only the angle helped on this deer. The super muley combined with taking out spine down angle from a ridge allowed it to stay in as well. Very few class two critters keep bullets from this cartridge inside them, including eld-m. And just to keep repeating, this is the performance potential I prefer, many want bullets in one piece wherever they may go. I like some carnage with adequate penetration and that’s what this set up does.

[kujoseto]

Interesting stuff!
It functions like a Berger as far as I can tell. Not sure what the griping is about with it being a match bullet.
And if the core separates, I don’t see it stopping all momentum and destruction.

You mention it’s how you like a bullet to perform, and it seems it’s not quite how I like them to perform, but I can respect that. Tissue damage kills. I like some bullet fragmentation but was concerned what the Speer spbt might be like at full speed. Seems those Grendel speeds are in a sweet spot for hunting performance. Clearly working for you too!

[Stinky Coyote]

Thanks, and ya, i guess another way to look at it would be from a coyote perspective. Where most guys after fur are very specific about trying to match the sd and bullet construction and impact velocities such that they don't ever get exits and completely explode inside without splashing on the surface.

I just think similar for big game. I want a little more penetration than the coyote hunters of course but like the coyote hunters i also want to dump plenty of energy inside as well for those drt's or ultra short recoveries. I'd rather not have the bullet doing most of it's work in the hill side. I'm not interested in shooting game end to end or trying to go through both femurs...one is plenty, 1.5-2' through the soft stuff after thick rib cage is plenty.

I've seen plenty of kills with tough delayed controlled expansion bullets and they just haven't impressed me internally or even recovered distances as much as more rapid expansion offerings that still penetrate adequately for game intended. And many people much prefer the opposite, i don't think either option is wrong, dead is dead, it's just preference for a variety of reasons, risk acceptability etc.

So hopefully that adds some perspective to this. These long for caliber bullets with softer construction offer that penetration capability for bigger game while doing that sort of internal carnage expected from softer bullets. It's just a combo that i prefer. When you work with that you can get a lot more from the powder you burn imo. Just more efficient as you're actually doing more work inside the critter then some much higher recoiling options running much tougher bullets.

When people get to wondering why something so small can do lightning kills while some magnum flinging the toughest bullets gives underwhelming performance....that's what's going on. There is a relationship of bullet construction, sd appropriate for game, and impact velocities to match.

A heavy magnum example with a delayed controlled bullet may land with 2500 ft/lbs ke, open 1.75x, but dumped only 600 ft/lbs inside the critter with at 2" diam. wound channel and leave all the rest in the hillside. Where this Grendel whitetail example landed with 1047 ft/lbs and dumped every bit of it over 18" with awesome boiler room damage, while easily doing triple size expansion.

Shoot a coyote with it and it's simply too much so most of the work is done in the hillside. It's all relative. It's hard to believe when you hold the cartridge in your hand and look at the damage on a larger class 2 game(class 3 really showed as well)...that it's possible.

The magnum example here isn't even going to get tested until you have a heavy 3rd class animal that you need to end to end and get 4' of penetration. If that's the insurance you want by all mean shoot that. If you're ok with taking appropriate shots for what you're carrying then you can burn a ton less powder and see awesome results and more people will shoot it well too.

We aren't trophy hunting, we don't chase elk full time, we don't need to hammer them up the whazzoo on the run, we like to take the right shot opportunities and do our part. We get rewarded with quick harvests, low recovery distances (if at all), and for very little recoil and noise to boot.

We have so many choices, this is just one of them. Start with the bullet you like, and work it back from there, it will tell you what cartridges will drive it to your asks etc. This 6.5 Grendel the whole fam dam can shoot all day, targets, plinking, predator calling, and double down for our big game needs as well.

[marky_mark]

Here’s a 147 gr eldm
Deer was shot in the spine with a 6.5 creedmoor at approximately 200 yards by a friend.
Not all match bullets are bad. Like I said before, This is similar to results I’ve had with most bergers I’ve found. Most are pass through a with large exit holes.
I don’t know if the 123’s are too short for hunting? All the pics show them peeling all the way down to the base. I just wouldn’t be able to trust a bullet that consistently blows up


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[Pathfinder76]

Whenever I recover a Barnes bullet, I’m glad, that it was a Barnes bullet.

[kujoseto]

Originally Posted by chuck

Whenever I recover a Barnes bullet, I’m glad, that it was a Barnes bullet.

What’s the story on that Barnes?

Years ago I caught a 139gr GMX after it went quite a ways through a moose and then rattled around down the spine a couple feet.
Shot was 280m or so from a 7mm Rem Mag

[Pathfinder76]

A Whitetail and a bunch of bone. I’ve recovered lots of them, and they have always done some pretty heavy lifting.

[58thecat]

Originally Posted by kujoseto

What’s the story on that Barnes?

Years ago I caught a 139gr GMX after it went quite a ways through a moose and then rattled around down the spine a couple feet.
Shot was 280m or so from a 7mm Rem Mag

Perfection!

[marky_mark]

If it hits solid bone and still has 50% or more of the initial weight that’s pretty good for me on deer
The bigger the critter, the higher the percentage