223 seating depth

[OL_JR]

So my reloading in the past has basically involved screwing around with charge weights and loading to the max COL. listed in the manual but recently have been trying to mess around with seating depth specific to my gun.

I marked up a bullet (53 gr. vmax) lightly crimped it and on three tries I get 2.427" as the length of the cartridge up against the rifling. In the manual the max is 2.260." I understand that there is a big safety factor built in but it just seems like a lot?

What do you get as a COL. in your 223 with the bullet up against the rifling?

[catnthehat]

Originally Posted by OL_JR

So my reloading in the past has basically involved screwing around with charge weights and loading to the max COL. listed in the manual but recently have been trying to mess around with seating depth specific to my gun.

I marked up a bullet (53 gr. vmax) lightly crimped it and on three tries I get 2.427" as the length of the cartridge up against the rifling. In the manual the max is 2.260." I understand that there is a big safety factor built in but it just seems like a lot?

What do you get as a COL. in your 223 with the bullet up against the rifling?

OAL is all over the map when it comes to different bullets and chamber lengths.
What I do for my match rifles is to find the OAL with the bullet I want too use , then adjust my lengths at the range as I shoot to find the best OAL for accuracy .
I also measure off the ogive when I am recording the OAL of the bullet not the tip.
If you are loading for a hunting rifle, use the recommended OAL that is given in your manual, use that as a starting point , unless you are using a magazine, then just go with the max length your mag will allow minus a bit to avoid any jamming in the magazine.
Cat

[elkhunter11]

I ignore the COL listed in the manual. With a bullet like the v-max, I start at .010" off of the lands providing the loaded round fits the magazine, and feeds properly. Every bullet and rifle may be different.

[Dubious]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

I ignore the COL listed in the manual. With a bullet like the v-max, I start at .010" off of the lands providing the loaded round fits the magazine, and feeds properly. Every bullet and rifle may be different.

I wouldn’t recommend ignoring COL but do take note. If your already at max and significantly shorter than the book your pressures are going to be higher than listed.

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by Dubious

I wouldn’t recommend ignoring COL but do take note. If your already at max and significantly shorter than the book your pressures are going to be higher than listed.

And if you start with a reduced load, and work up while watching for pressure signs , you won't have an issue. The idiots that start at the published max load, are the people that tend to have issues while reloading.

[6MT]

Originally Posted by OL_JR

So my reloading in the past has basically involved screwing around with charge weights and loading to the max COL. listed in the manual but recently have been trying to mess around with seating depth specific to my gun.

I marked up a bullet (53 gr. vmax) lightly crimped it and on three tries I get 2.427" as the length of the cartridge up against the rifling. In the manual the max is 2.260." I understand that there is a big safety factor built in but it just seems like a lot?

What do you get as a COL. in your 223 with the bullet up against the rifling?

What are you shooting?

[GrandSlam]

Are you using a regular dial calliper or a Hornady comparator for OAL? Measuring from the ogive is more accurate.

[OL_JR]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

I ignore the COL listed in the manual. With a bullet like the v-max, I start at .010" off of the lands providing the loaded round fits the magazine, and feeds properly. Every bullet and rifle may be different.

I loaded some up with a couple different charge weights of Benchmark but went a touch farther back to start (.020"). The bullets are still fairly close to the end of the magazine. Was hoping to shoot today but it was pretty windy all day around home.

Originally Posted by 6MT

What are you shooting?

It's an el cheapo savage axis, this is the first time reloading for this particular gun. It's never seen anything other than non premium factory ammo as it's just a ride around in the truck gun. Lately have become curious as to what I can get out of it.

Originally Posted by GrandSlam

Are you using a regular dial calliper or a Hornady comparator for OAL? Measuring from the ogive is more accurate.

I'm using a regular caliper (digital) and measuring from cartridge base to tip after pushing a fired case with a lightly crimped neck onto a bullet in the chamber. I actually had to google what a comparator was lol, I'm not a guru re loader by any means.

I guess my main concern is safety, I feel like I've done things somewhat properly but seeing how much longer my dummy cartridge is to a factory round it's got me wondering if I botched it somehow but it sounds like this is normal. I got the exact same measuremetn down to .001" the three times I tried.

With the rounds I loaded at .020" back I'm not getting any bullets pulling out or any marking on the pullet, or change in OL. as if I'd forced a bullet further into the case with chambering so that's a positive.

[Dick284]

Here is where you are getting all messed up.
Your rifle likely has a 1 in 7 twist rate barrel, which makes it capable of shooting bullets up to and around 77 grains. Those are long for caliber bullets, and hence the long throat in your rifle.

There is zero hazard in seating those 53 grain bullets out further than the SAAMI spec which is where the number comes from in your manual. Provided, you follow proper load development practices.

[Deer Hunter]

Originally Posted by Dick284

Here is where you are getting all messed up.
Your rifle likely has a 1 in 7 twist rate barrel, which makes it capable of shooting bullets up to and around 77 grains. Those are long for caliber bullets, and hence the long throat in your rifle.

There is zero hazard in seating those 53 grain bullets out further than the SAAMI spec which is where the number comes from in your manual. Provided, you follow proper load development practices.

A 1:7 twist?!
Better check that Dick.

[Dick284]

Originally Posted by Deer Hunter

A 1:7 twist?!
Better check that Dick.

Yup it’s supposed to be 1 in 9 which includes 75 grain bullets, which are still pretty long for caliber. So the essence of my post is still valid.


I’ll go buy you some freshly ground black pepper, just so you can go try to find the the fly scat that might be in it.

[DLab]

I like the 53 VMax's ,they've shot well for me in the past,you're going to have some variance in measuring OAL due to the Polymer tips,no big deal.
You'll be fine at .020 OTL,start your powder loads light and work up.
I'm sure if you do a little reading you'll find loads from other people using the same components that will give you a good ball park idea on powder weight.
If your Axis is a model without the Accu trigger,that will likely be your biggest issue for accuracy/small groups,but I have seen a number of them shoot very well with the Accu or Timney trigger upgrade.

Generally speaking,.223 Rem. bolt guns usually aren't hard to get to shoot.

[FishOutOfWater]

Originally Posted by Dick284

Yup it’s supposed to be 1 in 9 which includes 75 grain bullets, which are still pretty long for caliber.

So the essence of my post is still valid.


I’ll go buy you some freshly ground black pepper, just so you can go try to find the the fly scat that might be in it.

I see you don't like the taste of Humble Pie...

[OL_JR]

Originally Posted by DLab

I like the 53 VMax's ,they've shot well for me in the past,you're going to have some variance in measuring OAL due to the Polymer tips,no big deal.
You'll be fine at .020 OTL,start your powder loads light and work up.
I'm sure if you do a little reading you'll find loads from other people using the same components that will give you a good ball park idea on powder weight.
If your Axis is a model without the Accu trigger,that will likely be your biggest issue for accuracy/small groups,but I have seen a number of them shoot very well with the Accu or Timney trigger upgrade.

Generally speaking,.223 Rem. bolt guns usually aren't hard to get to shoot.

Funny you mention the trigger. It's an older model without the accutrigger. I did do a bit of "work" to it right after I got it as the factory trigger was absolutely ridiculously bad. Don't quiz me on exactly what I did because I don't remember lol but it did help a bunch. I put a Timney on a rem 700 7mm and it is definitely a nice trigger and night and day to the factory offering. I should really break down and put one on this gun but I got a lot of hobbies and only so much love to spread around.

Still haven't had the window I want to shoot yet but hopefully this week if I can find time between home projects, getting the boat ready for the opener, work etc.

Originally Posted by Dick284

Here is where you are getting all messed up.
Your rifle likely has a 1 in 7 twist rate barrel, which makes it capable of shooting bullets up to and around 77 grains. Those are long for caliber bullets, and hence the long throat in your rifle.

There is zero hazard in seating those 53 grain bullets out further than the SAAMI spec which is where the number comes from in your manual. Provided, you follow proper load development practices.

That makes sense and I was expecting a longer length but it just seemed really long. I think I'm on the right track.

Thanks folks always a tonne of info to be had on here.

[DiabeticKripple]

Just make sure if you’re seating out far, that you have enough bullet in the case too. A rule of thumb I’ve read in places is you should have the same amount of bullet in the case as the diameter of the bullet. Example: for a .223 Rem the length of the cartridge before you seat the bullet should be at least .223 inches longer than the seated length.

[OL_JR]

Got to messing around with this again recently. Initially tried .010 off the lands with a few different charges and it was better than the factory ammo for sure. Last round went with an even 2.400" just to be a little farther away from the end of the clip and I think I found what it likes.

[elkhunter11]

If you can repeat that group a few more times, you have your COL.

[cbc_anderson]

As elkhunter11 mentioned, try to repeat this performance over the next 5 or 6 groups you shoot with that charge weight and COAL. I'd also suggest you increase your groups to 5 shots. As a new reloader there were many times I would shoot a great 3-shot group and think I had found the sweet spot for a load, to only find out later that I couldn't repeate my early success. Statistics will tell you that sometimes a lousy load will yield a good group, and vice versa. Work to repeat your success -- as you increase your sample size random variability will play a smaller role in measuring your success. Good luck! :-)

[OL_JR]

For sure fellas that is the plan, showing some promise though for a cheap gun. I know they are more expensive now and it's been a while since I purchased this one but I don't think I payed much more than a couple hundred bucks for it on sale .

[cbc_anderson]

Originally Posted by OL_JR

For sure fellas that is the plan, showing some promise though for a cheap gun. I know they are more expensive now and it's been a while since I purchased this one but I don't think I payed much more than a couple hundred bucks for it on sale .

Amen to that, OL_JR! It is always fun to get ahold of a cheap rifle that with the right handloads turns into a solid shooter. That will leave you smiling at the shooting bench every time. I think you will be shooting bug holes on the cheap Enjoy!