The beginning of the end

[Don Andersen]

Folks,

Looks like parts of the Pembina is following Falls Creek. Closed to all fishing - logging, land distruction and quadding continues.

Looks like the Pembina is the next step on the road to fishing loss.

Always wondered what would happen to fishing after we got to zero limits.

Now I know.

Don

[JimPS]

In a few years people who see waters closed to fishing will just assume there are no fish there and there probably won't be any fish.

Our species has a continued history of destruction.

Very sad and depressing.

[FlyTheory]

Yeah maybe they should stop logging and road construction, then see what happens.

[RisingRainbows]

To me, the worst part is that closing it to fishing only delays stopping the real problem, HABITAT LOSS. Closing it to fishing won't change anything and it gives the illusion that we care and are trying to help. It's completely ridiculous. So much for our Pembina River grayling...

[TroutBaus]

Where are you guys reading this? I did a search and did not find anything, that being said I haven't got my new regs booklet yet. It must be in there? Post link if possible!

[ishootbambi]

Yes human activity and industry can negatively affect fish populations as it trickles down. Of course angling has a very direct affect on it. I find it curious how the fish are so important to you Don that other groups are pure evil to you and must be stopped...but once restrictions affect you personally it's all of a sudden a load of bullschit. Yeah, your true colours are pretty easy to see.

[RisingRainbows]

Originally Posted by ishootbambi

Yes human activity and industry can negatively affect fish populations as it trickles down. Of course angling has a very direct affect on it.

Can? C'mon, it is industry. This regulation, to my understanding, is to protect the last of the Pembina River grayling. It is industry and roads that has wiped out these fish, not the grayling feasts fisherman have been having... Silt on the typically gravel stream bottoms negatively impacts the grayling's ability to reproduce. This is the problem and this is caused by dusty gravel roads and streamside erosion caused by industry.

[thumper]

I recall when you could hunt caribou in Alberta, and also Sage grouse. Shutting down the hunting 'take' didn't do squat. Without controlling habitat damage caused by voracious industry, populations have continued to tumble for both.

I fear the same for the Pembina fisheries. Shutting down fishing is only a symbolic, hollow gesture. There's no stomach for anything that could be interpreted as impeding industry.

[smitty9]

Originally Posted by ishootbambi

I never said industry or quads were innocent. I'm also not so naive to think anglers wading the waters don't contribute. The fact is that all groups could be better.

Ah yes. Those dastardly wading anglers. They're the issue. Lol.

Smitty

[RisingRainbows]

Originally Posted by TroutBaus

Where are you guys reading this? I did a search and did not find anything, that being said I haven't got my new regs booklet yet. It must be in there? Post link if possible!

albertaregulations.ca

[RisingRainbows]

Grayling populations are threatened in Alberta because of fish handling? Seriously...

[RisingRainbows]

Originally Posted by Don Andersen

Looks like the Pembina is following Falls Creek. Closed to all fishing - logging, land distruction and quadding continues.

Is there anything untrue in this? No, there isn't; so how about we stick to the topic and stop bashing Don.

[Joholio]

Whew!!! I thought he was talking about me for a second there! Carry on

[CMichaud]

Originally Posted by Don Andersen

Folks,

Looks like the Pembina is following Falls Creek. Closed to all fishing - logging, land distruction and quadding continues.

Looks like the Pembina is the next step on the road to fishing loss.

Always wondered what would happen to fishing after we got to zero limits.

Now I know.

Don

Just reading through this thread and the regs say parts of the Pembina are open within the given dates?

Just want to make sure I am not misreading something, thanks


Pembina River downstream of Hwy 43 (near Sangudo)

June 1 to Oct. 31 – Arctic Grayling limit 0; Mountain Whitefish limit 5 over 30 cm; Walleye limit 3 over 50 cm; Pike limit 3 over 63 cm; Burbot limit 10; Goldeye limit 10; Bait is allowed in river only.

Nov. 1 to May 31 – CLOSED

[Don Andersen]

Originally Posted by CMichaud

Just reading through this thread and the regs say parts of the Pembina are open within the given dates?

Just want to make sure I am not misreading something, thanks


Pembina River downstream of Hwy 43 (near Sangudo)

June 1 to Oct. 31 – Arctic Grayling limit 0; Mountain Whitefish limit 5 over 30 cm; Walleye limit 3 over 50 cm; Pike limit 3 over 63 cm; Burbot limit 10; Goldeye limit 10; Bait is allowed in river only.

Nov. 1 to May 31 – CLOSED

Something is not right in the twine box. You say it is open but....
This says otherwise.

https://albertawilderness.ca/awa-nr-...overy-actions/

Parts of the Pembina are closed. The upper reaches. Appears
Ike the lower reaches are open.

[CMichaud]

Originally Posted by Don Andersen

Folks,

Looks like the Pembina is following Falls Creek. Closed to all fishing - logging, land distruction and quadding continues.

Originally Posted by Don Andersen

Something is not right in the twine box. You say it is open but....
This says otherwise.

https://albertawilderness.ca/awa-nr-...overy-actions/

Parts of the Pembina are closed. The upper reaches. Appears
Ike the lower reaches are open.

Please re-read my post, I did not say it was open, I stated that parts of the Pembina appear open as per the provided quote from the regs.

The OP (I now see it was you) stated the Pembina was closed when in fact it is only parts of it. The AWA link provided confirms this:

the Alberta government will put in place a 5 year ‘recovery rest period’ in the upper Pembina River

I just wanted to confirm the regs had not been superseded or amended.

Not sure what the comment re twine box means - I'll assume it was not intended to be personally insulting or ignorant

[Don Andersen]

Originally Posted by CMichaud

Please re-read my post, I did not say it was open, I stated that parts of the Pembina appear open as per the provided quote from the regs.

The OP (I now see it was you) stated the Pembina was closed when in fact it is only parts of it. The AWA link provided confirms this:

the Alberta government will put in place a 5 year ‘recovery rest period’ in the upper Pembina River

I just wanted to confirm the regs had not been superseded or amended.

Not sure what the comment re twine box means - I'll assume it was not intended to be personally insulting or ignorant

Guess I'm showing my age. Something rotten in the twine box means that the twine is rotten and won't tie the bundles or things are coming apart. Sorry if I confused you with a saying from Rural Alberta from 50 years ago.

[Mercoal]

As my handle suggests, I have a small original coal branch cabin at Mercoal and know the are well. Have known it well since the 1960s. I can assure you that the changes and damages to the environment has come from industry and roads for timber harvesting, not from Quads or Anglers. I fished the Pembina Falls by Honda Trike via cut lines decades ago. Fishing was always awesome. West Fraser Timber has clear cut so many sections of land there.....and I mean clear cut. You can see for miles. The roads, unlike Falls Creek Road near a Rocky, are open and not closed to OHVs. The logging roads around Mercoal - many are windier and more narrow than the Falls Creek Road....but no matter, one can see for miles due to lack of trees ! Mars landscape looks better. The silting and destruction to our environment is shocking. Yet some on this board like to focus on OHVs and the bit of dirt stirred up by crossing a stream ! really? How about every spring melt that changes the course of the McLeod River every year? Creates new log jams and removes old ones? New fishing spots? No - it is the silt and other destruction. falls creek road is closed to also prevent folks from seeing the destruction and loss of habitat, in my opinion. What about all the free ranging cattle up on Falls Creek Road ? Look at a satellite map and see the size of the clear cuts in the Coal Branch area. Also near the South Ram River. Let's get together and save the habitat from profiteering foresty companies, it isn't the average OHV user or angler. I have seen the changes over the years owning my small cabin at Mercoal. It isn't the anglers or OHV riders.

[AlbertaCutthroat]

Originally Posted by Mercoal

As my handle suggests, I have a small original coal branch cabin at Mercoal and know the are well. Have known it well since the 1960s. I can assure you that the changes and damages to the environment has come from industry and roads for timber harvesting, not from Quads or Anglers. I fished the Pembina Falls by Honda Trike via cut lines decades ago. Fishing was always awesome. West Fraser Timber has clear cut so many sections of land there.....and I mean clear cut. You can see for miles. The roads, unlike Falls Creek Road near a Rocky, are open and not closed to OHVs. The logging roads around Mercoal - many are windier and more narrow than the Falls Creek Road....but no matter, one can see for miles due to lack of trees ! Mars landscape looks better. The silting and destruction to our environment is shocking. Yet some on this board like to focus on OHVs and the bit of dirt stirred up by crossing a stream ! really? How about every spring melt that changes the course of the McLeod River every year? Creates new log jams and removes old ones? New fishing spots? No - it is the silt and other destruction. falls creek road is closed to also prevent folks from seeing the destruction and loss of habitat, in my opinion. What about all the free ranging cattle up on Falls Creek Road ? Look at a satellite map and see the size of the clear cuts in the Coal Branch area. Also near the South Ram River. Let's get together and save the habitat from profiteering foresty companies, it isn't the average OHV user or angler. I have seen the changes over the years owning my small cabin at Mercoal. It isn't the anglers or OHV riders.

Have you been up the Mackenzie Creek Valley in the past 5 years to see what the OHV riders have done? It is disgusting, you can't even hike back there anymore, it's just too ripped up. No logging or other development up there, just OHV's running up and down one of the only bull trout creeks that remain in the area. The logging is brutal as well, but don't give OHV's a free pass, they are having their own impact.

[Mercoal]

AC - sure have. Even help my buddy pull critters from his trapline on the McKenzie in the winter, both the cabins are his. The Bulltrout fishing on the McLeod is still pretty good, I always manage a few nice ones.... All catch and release of course. My point is Quadders and OHVs pale compared to loss of habitat and the roads punched into the areas. In the 70s and early 80s, we used 4x4s to get around, the OHVs are less destructive by far. McKenzie Creek and tributaries have been closed for years. What is really sad is the state of the Beaverdam area, loss of Deer and Moose habitat. There is nothing holding back the soil or rainfall silt from flooding into Beaverdam Creek. I have seen fines on the web levied to forest companies in BC for cutting down timber that was not part of their license that were less than some levied on a simple quad rider trying to get from point A to point B on the Falls Creek Road ! There is a bridge on the falls creek road that if the forestry company shared responsibly, wouldn't force OHVs to use cut lines and cross the creek where no bridge exists. The road can easily be shared safely....and used to be open....until they started to log it out heavily right to the cliffs overlooking the ram river. Check out google earth. Let's focus on heavy industry, not the average fisherman or OHV Rider.

[MountainTi]

Originally Posted by Mercoal

AC - sure have. Even help my buddy pull critters from his trapline on the McKenzie in the winter, both the cabins are his. The Bulltrout fishing on the McLeod is still pretty good, I always manage a few nice ones.... All catch and release of course. My point is Quadders and OHVs pale compared to loss of habitat and the roads punched into the areas. In the 70s and early 80s, we used 4x4s to get around, the OHVs are less destructive by far. McKenzie Creek and tributaries have been closed for years. What is really sad is the state of the Beaverdam area, loss of Deer and Moose habitat. There is nothing holding back the soil or rainfall silt from flooding into Beaverdam Creek. I have seen fines on the web levied to forest companies in BC for cutting down timber that was not part of their license that were less than some levied on a simple quad rider trying to get from point A to point B on the Falls Creek Road ! There is a bridge on the falls creek road that if the forestry company shared responsibly, wouldn't force OHVs to use cut lines and cross the creek where no bridge exists. The road can easily be shared safely....and used to be open....until they started to log it out heavily right to the cliffs overlooking the ram river. Check out google earth. Let's focus on heavy industry, not the average fisherman or OHV Rider.

And which bridge is that?

[Mercoal]

It is the bridge over the falls creek on the falls creek road !

[SNAPFisher]

Originally Posted by Mercoal

As my handle suggests, I have a small original coal branch cabin at Mercoal and know the are well. Have known it well since the 1960s. I can assure you that the changes and damages to the environment has come from industry and roads for timber harvesting, not from Quads or Anglers. I fished the Pembina Falls by Honda Trike via cut lines decades ago. Fishing was always awesome. West Fraser Timber has clear cut so many sections of land there.....and I mean clear cut. You can see for miles. The roads, unlike Falls Creek Road near a Rocky, are open and not closed to OHVs. The logging roads around Mercoal - many are windier and more narrow than the Falls Creek Road....but no matter, one can see for miles due to lack of trees ! Mars landscape looks better. The silting and destruction to our environment is shocking. Yet some on this board like to focus on OHVs and the bit of dirt stirred up by crossing a stream ! really? How about every spring melt that changes the course of the McLeod River every year? Creates new log jams and removes old ones? New fishing spots? No - it is the silt and other destruction. falls creek road is closed to also prevent folks from seeing the destruction and loss of habitat, in my opinion. What about all the free ranging cattle up on Falls Creek Road ? Look at a satellite map and see the size of the clear cuts in the Coal Branch area. Also near the South Ram River. Let's get together and save the habitat from profiteering foresty companies, it isn't the average OHV user or angler. I have seen the changes over the years owning my small cabin at Mercoal. It isn't the anglers or OHV riders.

Not sure who you are referring to in your post. If it is me you are wrong. The area I live it is the OHV users that are the problem. They have a choice to ride elsewhere but prefer to break the law. As far as I can tell it is because it is a convenient location. Ran into 2 quaders yesterday speeding down the public road at just about 100 km/hr. I jumped in my car and followed them to a private oil lease where one of them was about to tear down a no trespassing sign. So what do they do, jump on their quads and burn across one farmers field just seeded. Then the corner of another and finally a 3rd field just planted. Going easily 80 km/hr or more. You could see the dirt flying behind them. All private land. All regular people just trying to farm and live in peace. Gutless scum come to mind when I think of them. They are not a minority either.

[Mercoal]

SNAP - no it wasn't you. And your example mentioned is pretty bad and in no way do I condone that. A few bad apples are giving the rest a black eye.... But to ride down a cut line with quads to get to a back country location, responsibly, perhaps with friends or family, and enjoy a nice day tenting and fly fishing and then being accused of destroying habitat or creeks because one has to cross a stream is overkill as well. Every time it rains heavy a stream silts up, even more so when there are not trees left !

[SNAPFisher]

Originally Posted by Mercoal

SNAP - no it wasn't you. And your example mentioned is pretty bad and in no way do I condone that. A few bad apples are giving the rest a black eye.... But to ride down a cut line with quads to get to a back country location, responsibly, perhaps with friends or family, and enjoy a nice day tenting and fly fishing and then being accused of destroying habitat or creeks because one has to cross a stream is overkill as well. Every time it rains heavy a stream silts up, even more so when there are not trees left !

Sounds good to me
There are too many bad apples. I wish someone could educate these people. I always test my neighbors to see if anyone has ever approached them to ask to quad and that is a big goose egg so far...sigh.

What you said about logging and industry in that area sounds pretty bad. I've driven by there enough but I'm just a visitor on my way by. Not the same as having a place there. Do you know the name of the company or companies involved in the destruction in that area?

[Brandon5555]

So much butt hurt in one place

Sent from my SM-G920W8 using Tapatalk