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View Poll Results: Do you believe in evolution or creation?
Creation 119 29.38%
Evolution 286 70.62%
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  #181  
Old 06-11-2017, 10:31 AM
Big Thumper Big Thumper is offline
 
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Originally Posted by Newview01 View Post
Why can't you look into now? I asked the question, you are clearly unwilling to answer.
I'm willing to answer, explain your position of why its mathematically impossible and I'll be glad to respond.
  #182  
Old 06-11-2017, 10:33 AM
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Originally Posted by 58thecat View Post
What about the mother knowing?

Moms always know.
You may actually have a good point. If that story was written in another time in another culture, the word mother may have been used. Many of the characteristics attributed to God in that book are feminine as well as masculine.
Nurture and wisdom are female characteristics.

In the near beginning of that book God said Let us make man (mankind) in our likeness.

In those days the parent in charge of the family was usually male. Seems more respectful than calling God it.

The book says that God created them male and female and blessed them and told them they have dominion over other creatures. He told them to subdue the earth but never told them they owned the earth and he never gave them dominion over each other.

It seems like owning the earth and having dominion over others is one of the big problems of the world that man has made.
  #183  
Old 06-11-2017, 10:34 AM
silverdoctor silverdoctor is offline
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I'm willing to answer, explain your position of why its mathematically impossible and I'll be glad to respond.
Edit, was meant toward newview.
  #184  
Old 06-11-2017, 10:34 AM
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I really don't see why there has to be two sides. Why are 'believing' and the theories of evolution mutually exclusive?
Before i was a believer in Jesus and who He claims to be i had no views on "religion" and i didnt get much evolution teaching that i can remember, so wasnt a evolutionist type either. Just didnt care i guess. To busy as a youngster trying to survive on the streets. No help back then from any organization. There wasnt any for teens. I hit the streets to avoid abuse at home at a young age so i dont have much schooling. So when i say side i mean non believer in Christianity and a believer in Christianity. Not evolution vs.
  #185  
Old 06-11-2017, 10:36 AM
fitzy fitzy is offline
 
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Originally Posted by Newview01 View Post
Why can't you look into now? I asked the question, you are clearly unwilling to answer.
I don't see that there is one. I'm at work and don't have the time... or inclination. Here is an article out of the university of Pennsylvania saying there is plenty of time though.

https://www.google.ca/amp/s/phys.org...-evolution.amp
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  #186  
Old 06-11-2017, 10:37 AM
silverdoctor silverdoctor is offline
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I don't see that there is one. I'm at work and don't have the time... or inclination. Here is an article out of the university of Pennsylvania saying there is plenty of time though.

https://www.google.ca/amp/s/phys.org...-evolution.amp
Sorry, quoted the wrong person.
  #187  
Old 06-11-2017, 10:37 AM
Big Thumper Big Thumper is offline
 
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Please respond to my explanation.
I looked back and I don't see you claiming that evolution is mathematically impossible?
  #188  
Old 06-11-2017, 10:38 AM
Newview01 Newview01 is offline
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I'm willing to answer, explain your position of why its mathematically impossible and I'll be glad to respond.
I believe it is mathematically impossible because my understanding is that the amount of beneficial mutations required to occur, in the amount of time it takes to accomplish a beneficial mutation, far surpass the amount of time evolutionists have given themselves. I won't take "over billions of years we know" because scientists today know how long it takes for DNA to mutate and the percentage of mutations that are beneficial.
  #189  
Old 06-11-2017, 10:38 AM
silverdoctor silverdoctor is offline
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I looked back and I don't see you claiming that evolution is mathematically impossible?
Quoted the wrong person. sorry.
  #190  
Old 06-11-2017, 10:40 AM
silverdoctor silverdoctor is offline
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I believe it is mathematically impossible because my understanding is that the amount of beneficial mutations required to occur, in the amount of time it takes to accomplish a beneficial mutation, far surpass the amount of time evolutionists have given themselves. I won't take "over billions of years we know" because scientists today know how long it takes for DNA to mutate and the percentage of mutations that are beneficial.
You do realize that most of our DNA is junk right? And it's mostly retroviral DNA?

How did our genome go from perfection created by God, to junk in the span of 8000 years?
  #191  
Old 06-11-2017, 10:45 AM
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Originally Posted by silverdoctor View Post
Sorry, quoted the wrong person.
Your explanation is what set me off lol. I have such an issue with the Ark story look at the size of the Queen Anne 2 4300 passengers. The size of the Ark over 7 million species of animals. How did they fit? What did they eat? Where did they poop? How did the kangaroos and Koalas get to Australia after they got off the boat without one single Skelton being found anywhere on planet?



Why didn't anyone swat the mosquitos? ?
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  #192  
Old 06-11-2017, 10:47 AM
silverdoctor silverdoctor is offline
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Your explanation is what set me off lol. I have such an issue with the Ark story look at the size of the Queen Anne 2 4300 passengers. The size of the Ark over 7 million species of animals. How did they fit? What did they eat? Where did they poop? How did the kangaroos and Koalas get to Australia after they got off the boat without one single Skelton being found anywhere on planet?



Why didn't anyone swat the mosquitos? ?
Trying to play nice and speak of the bible as a history book.

It's trying to have a conversation, not ridicule.
  #193  
Old 06-11-2017, 10:52 AM
Newview01 Newview01 is offline
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You do realize that most of our DNA is junk right? And it's mostly retroviral DNA?

How did our genome go from perfection created by God, to junk in the span of 8000 years?
Does not all matter disintegrate / decay over time?
  #194  
Old 06-11-2017, 10:52 AM
Stricks Stricks is offline
 
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Ya see…this is why I have lost ALL faith in the AO community.

All it takes is a sideways glance at Dick284’s avatar. Anyone, and I do mean ANYONE, who looks like that and can still tickle the keyboard the way he does…“don’t know nuttin bout evelution”…..
  #195  
Old 06-11-2017, 10:53 AM
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tri777 tri777 is offline
 
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Originally Posted by fitzy View Post
Why is the idea of the world coming from a golden egg less believable than coming
from an all powerful man floating around that took 7 days to make the entire universe ....
Speaking of that if god didn't make the sun until day 4 how did they
measure time?
2 Peter 3:8
"But do not forget this one thing dear friends:
With the Lord, a day is like a thousand years,
and a thousand years are like a day."

Puts Earth around 7000yrs just to create (not a week).
  #196  
Old 06-11-2017, 10:57 AM
silverdoctor silverdoctor is offline
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Originally Posted by Newview01 View Post
Does not all matter disintegrate / decay over time?
When you die, yes.

We aren't injecting decaying DNA into people.
  #197  
Old 06-11-2017, 11:02 AM
alta270 alta270 is offline
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Originally Posted by Newview01 View Post
Your number one mistake is that assuming because someone is of a religion, they are Roman Catholic. It was the Roman Catholic Church that suppressed any and all forms science and thought that would subvert their iron grip on the average person. If one associates violence with Christianity, they are focusing on the RCC.

You also talk about faith vs science. You need to realize that believing in evolution requires a lot more faith than creation. With creation, there is one event after which anything is possible. With evolution, you must believe in trillions upon trillions upon trillions of events, over unimaginable periods of time, all unguided, uncontrolled, with the end result being the perfect order in nature we see today.

While it may seem I am here to pick fights and argue, I am genuinely interested in everyone's choice of evidence that backs up their belief. While there are a lot of scoffers, very few have given something worthwhile.
One doesn't 'believe' in science, one understands it. No faith required. You don't seem to get that point, which is why you have so much difficulty accepting the conclusions of it.

Again, there it is a false equivalency to debate creation versus evolution. One conceptualizes the beginning of life, the other it's development over time.
  #198  
Old 06-11-2017, 11:08 AM
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Originally Posted by alta270 View Post
One doesn't 'believe' in science, one understands it. No faith required. You don't seem to get that point, which is why you have so much difficulty accepting the conclusions of it.

Again, there it is a false equivalency to debate creation versus evolution. One conceptualizes the beginning of life, the other it's development over time.
We're talking origins, in the creation vs evolution debate that is generally the intent.

Obviously science is not a belief, which is why I'm always confused when evolutionists claim their theory is science. There are so many holes in their claims and missing links, a large measure of faith is required to believe the concept.
  #199  
Old 06-11-2017, 11:08 AM
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I believe it is mathematically impossible because my understanding is that the amount of beneficial mutations required to occur, in the amount of time it takes to accomplish a beneficial mutation, far surpass the amount of time evolutionists have given themselves. I won't take "over billions of years we know" because scientists today know how long it takes for DNA to mutate and the percentage of mutations that are beneficial.
Don't you find it strange that your faith advises that all humans are the result of incestuous relationships between sons and their mother?
  #200  
Old 06-11-2017, 11:10 AM
silverdoctor silverdoctor is offline
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Originally Posted by Newview01 View Post
We're talking origins, in the creation vs evolution debate that is generally the intent.

Obviously science is not a belief, which is why I'm always confused when evolutionists claim their theory is science. There are so many holes in their claims and missing links, a large measure of faith is required to believe the concept.
So.... You really haven't invested any time or effort into the science side of things.

There is no sense in having the conversation.
  #201  
Old 06-11-2017, 11:11 AM
Big Thumper Big Thumper is offline
 
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Originally Posted by Newview01 View Post
I believe it is mathematically impossible because my understanding is that the amount of beneficial mutations required to occur, in the amount of time it takes to accomplish a beneficial mutation, far surpass the amount of time evolutionists have given themselves. I won't take "over billions of years we know" because scientists today know how long it takes for DNA to mutate and the percentage of mutations that are beneficial.
Mutations occur when a new individual is formed. With humans and other vertebrates, this is at conception. (several types including: substitution, deletion, insertion, duplication, repeat expansion, etc) These mutations will then be replicated in almost all the new individuals cells. Last time I checked, in humans, research shows each of us, has between 6-8 resulting genes that neither of our parents possessed.
Most are harmless, some are harmful, a few are fatal, and a small few are even beneficial. So, beneficial mutation (new gene) only takes the time it takes to conceive.
The term beneficial needs to be looked at too as a gene might be helpful in one environment but detrimental in another. This is important as a gene may be carried for hundreds of generations within a species but selective pressures do not increase or decrease its frequency until environmental conditions warrant. (research the gene for sickle cell)
So, to conclude it only takes seconds for a mutation (new gene) to occur. I think you should expand your position based on the last phrase of your post, the part about the percentage of beneficial genes, once you do, I will address that argument with my position.

Last edited by Big Thumper; 06-11-2017 at 11:17 AM.
  #202  
Old 06-11-2017, 11:16 AM
alta270 alta270 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Newview01 View Post
We're talking origins, in the creation vs evolution debate that is generally the intent.

Obviously science is not a belief, which is why I'm always confused when evolutionists claim their theory is science. There are so many holes in their claims and missing links, a large measure of faith is required to believe the concept.
Missing link? Source
"And in all of the fossils that we have (remember, we have found a lot) we haven’t discovered a single fossil indicating that evolution is wrong. Every fossil that we have has been shown to be a transitional fossil. This means that the fossils have traits in common with other fossils, some more primitive and some more advanced, as the case may be. There is no great outlier that doesn’t fit in with the theory of evolution."
Some missing human links, discovered:

https://www.livescience.com/11326-to...ing-links.html

Transitional fossils:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transitional_fossil

Tiktaalik was predicted to exist before it was found in the Canadian Arctic 13 years ago. This is only one exampe.
  #203  
Old 06-11-2017, 11:19 AM
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Originally Posted by tri777 View Post
2 Peter 3:8
"But do not forget this one thing dear friends:
With the Lord, a day is like a thousand years,
and a thousand years are like a day."

Puts Earth around 7000yrs just to create (not a week).
I am getting dizzy...what says the others who have many gods...chime in...or lords or ....hold it, hold it....gotta go....fish on

Lorddunderingjesusboy!....what a beauty...
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  #204  
Old 06-11-2017, 11:32 AM
Newview01 Newview01 is offline
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Originally Posted by alta270 View Post
Don't you find it strange that your faith advises that all humans are the result of incestuous relationships between sons and their mother?
And your faith says something different?
  #205  
Old 06-11-2017, 11:36 AM
silverdoctor silverdoctor is offline
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And your faith says something different?

So you believe that science is based on faith. There is nothing tangible in science.
  #206  
Old 06-11-2017, 11:37 AM
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A faithful evolutionary.

I have faith my God exists. I can see it. I'm an outdoorsman. I worship the Earth.

My wish is that people would stop looking at the sky for their Gods, and look at what they are doing to something that deserves to be worshipped.

I grew up in the bush, my father grew up there as well. I don't need to have faith in mythical beings, I worship a real being.
The books quoted to justify Christianity, and Muslims, are the rationale from centuries ago. To forget​ that, is where it all breaks down.

Why so few votes? Because the huge majority of the"members" are long gone. Since the owners want to pretend to be the forum of the Alberta people, they won't let anyone delete their profile.
  #207  
Old 06-11-2017, 11:39 AM
Newview01 Newview01 is offline
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Originally Posted by alta270 View Post
Missing link? Source
"And in all of the fossils that we have (remember, we have found a lot) we haven’t discovered a single fossil indicating that evolution is wrong. Every fossil that we have has been shown to be a transitional fossil. This means that the fossils have traits in common with other fossils, some more primitive and some more advanced, as the case may be. There is no great outlier that doesn’t fit in with the theory of evolution."
Some missing human links, discovered:

https://www.livescience.com/11326-to...ing-links.html

Transitional fossils:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transitional_fossil

Tiktaalik was predicted to exist before it was found in the Canadian Arctic 13 years ago. This is only one exampe.
Why have current species of monkeys not evolved into humans?

I'm not sure why a fossil that resembles something in between two different species is considered a link. Many species have gone extinct. Why do we draw conclusions using a select few?
  #208  
Old 06-11-2017, 11:41 AM
silverdoctor silverdoctor is offline
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Why have current species of monkeys not evolved into humans?
Wow. It's common ancestor. We did not evolve from the monkeys.

You really need to put a little more effort into science my friend. Look at the world around you.

I was raised Catholic, I put in the effort into the bible and the religion. I wish you could do the same with scientific research.
  #209  
Old 06-11-2017, 11:42 AM
Newview01 Newview01 is offline
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So you believe that science is based on faith. There is nothing tangible in science.
No, I'm saying that evolution is not based on science. We are led to believe otherwise.

The vast discrepancies in dating methods are an example.

The vast discrepancies in dates are an example.

There are assumptions that billions of years will produce what we have today, but science has not proved it.
  #210  
Old 06-11-2017, 11:44 AM
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Wow. It's common ancestor. We did not evolve from the monkeys.

You really need to put a little more effort into science my friend. Look at the world around you.

I was raised Catholic, I put in the effort into the bible and the religion. I wish you could do the same with scientific research.
You claim all life evolved from one cell. Would that not mean you somewhere along the line there was only one monkey?
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