Bill 24

[sns2]

Originally Posted by Newview01

Sounds like this passed.

Parents, the education system has deemed themselves to be better at raising your children than you are.

Please let me know how a teacher would know if a parent is going to beat the living tar out of their child? Osmosis? Psychic giftings?? Crystal balls??? Do you really think that this doesn't happen to kids coming out??? Are you so blinded by your political conservatism that you can't figure out that a gay kid doesn't need another layer of fear in their lives that a teacher, who is supposed to be a trusting adult figure, may rat them out to their parent who may be very against their sexuality, which they did not choose in the first place?

This is not a perfect bill. Life is not perfect, nor is it lived out in black or white. It's not the role of a teacher. We teach curriculum. We are not psychoanalysts. And I am comfortable in making the blanket statement that if a parent is unaware that their child is gay, they are approaching failure status as a parent.

These are not sex clubs people. They are peer support groups for a group of kids who have the highest suicide rate in all society, and are at the most fragile point in their lives. If you think that threatens the foundation of western society, then I am at a loss for words.

[DiabeticKripple]

^^^^ a teacher

[SoaringEagle]

Well said, Sns2.

[JDK71]

this will change families kids will start to say I don't have to tell you anything about what he or she is doing in school and if you ask the teacher they will tell you the same I feel this will create a gap between parents and there kids maybe not. Not sure how you can help your kids if you don't know whats going on in there life .It is always nice to be able to talk to a teacher about your kid because they do spend a lot of time with them .I hope that dose not make the teachers scared to talk to you about your kids .(in case they say something that could get them in trouble) sometimes you need a little help from the teacher we were al teens once

[sns2]

Originally Posted by DiabeticKripple

^^^^ a teacher

Yes. A proud one who has seen a bit of the good, bad, and ugly that kids live with.

[Twisted Canuck]

Originally Posted by sns2

Yes. A proud one who has seen a bit of the good, bad, and ugly that kids live with.

I'd let you teach my kids. They are the good. I'm the Ugly. But, somehow we try and be happy.....

[normstad]

Originally Posted by densa44

This is the one where the school doesn't have to tell parents if they think your child/student is gay/lesbian/trans.

I'm long past having an interest in the topic but the supporters of the bill got 200 people (young) out on a cold long weekend to support the government's position.

This is to the attention of those people who are sure the NDP will lose the next election. This is one of the wedge issues I have mentioned before and as far as the government is concerned that the more that they can come up with between now and the election, the better chance they have to be re-elected.

I will assume here that the UCP and Mr. Kenny will oppose the legislation. Now how will it effect the electorate? Will it attract votes to the UCP or will they just maintain their base? How about the NDs? Will it attract voters (new voters) my guess is that they think that it will.

Governments have lots of power to manipulate events in their favour so I warn against over confidence.

Easy answer. The NDP knew that Kenney would dog-whistle to his social conservative base.

They set him up, he bit, and as a result the NDP now is painting all UCP supporters as bigots and anti-gay. I sure hope that this is the only time, but I have a sneaking suspicion that they will try and define the UCP the same way the Wildrose was depicted back in 2012.

If they are successful, and this is only the first shot across the bow, and if the Alberta Party puts all their scat in a pile, don't count the cakewalk that was predicted only a few weeks ago for the UCP. It was clear that when Brian Jean was rejected, even though it was just as clear that he was the most popular politician in Alberta by the UCP, where the party was leaning.

Personally, I'll hold my breath until the policy conference. Depending on how that goes will influence where I do. And more importantly, where most Albertan's will be. Most Albertan's are not socially conservative.

[sns2]

Originally Posted by JDK71

this will change families kids will start to say I don't have to tell you anything about what he or she is doing in school and if you ask the teacher they will tell you the same I feel this will create a gap between parents and there kids maybe not. Not sure how you can help your kids if you don't know whats going on in there life .It is always nice to be able to talk to a teacher about your kid because they do spend a lot of time with them .I hope that dose not make the teachers scared to talk to you about your kids .(in case they say something that could get them in trouble) sometimes you need a little help from the teacher we were al teens once

Since time immemorial, teenagers have not been telling their parents about what is going on. Did you sit down with your mom to tell her about your first romp in a back seat? C'mon folks. This is a narrow bill about Gay Straight Alliances. If this rocks your world, then the foundation of your life is obviously sand.

[Looper]

Originally Posted by sns2

Since time immemorial, teenagers have not been telling their parents about what is going on. Did you sit down with your mom to tell her about your first romp in a back seat? C'mon folks. This is a narrow bill about Gay Straight Alliances. If this rocks your world, then the foundation of your life is obviously sand.

It doesn't rock my world. In fact I could care less. I'm sure that if one of my sons is gay he will tell me when he's ready to. And I will tell him I couldn't care less. If he's happy I'm happy.

I do have an issue with your statement about being a failure as a parent if I don't know.

Please tell me how I would know if he doesn't tell me? I don't read his e-mail, I don't snoop on his phone, I don't look over his shoulder when he's online, and I don't go to social functions with him.

What I do do is help him along the way. If he needs help with his car, runs low on cash, wants to know how to cook something, needs help moving furniture. Wants any advice I can offer.

He tells me all the time he loves me and I do the same.

But at this point he lives on his own. He's doing great. I have no idea if he's gay or not. I'm in failure status as a parent??

Looper

[Okotokian]

It's all politics and shading. The difference between the two side's positions is negligible. Both agree parents should not be told as a matter of course. You tell me what the material difference is between the two positions:

"The bill also makes it clear that school officials cannot tell parents if their child is in a gay-straight alliance except in special circumstances, such as when a student is under direct threat of harm."

and

"Opposition United Conservative Leader Jason Kenney spoke out against the bill, saying teachers need to be allowed to tell parents if they deem it necessary."

When would school officials "deem it necessary" other than if the child was at risk of harm? I suspect that in 99% of cases the standard would be the same. Perhaps Kenny needs to spell out the conditions in which a teacher might deem disclosure necessary. It can't be a blank cheque. It can't be because the teacher doesn't like GSA's.

[JDK71]

Originally Posted by sns2

Since time immemorial, teenagers have not been telling their parents about what is going on. Did you sit down with your mom to tell her about your first romp in a back seat? C'mon folks. This is a narrow bill about Gay Straight Alliances. If this rocks your world, then the foundation of your life is obviously sand.

for being a moderator a little less sarcasm would be nice I never said this rocked my word not sure where you are trying to go with

[Okotokian]

Originally Posted by JDK71

for being a moderator a little less sarcasm would be nice I never said this rocked my word not sure where you are trying to go with

oh jeeze.....

[Newview01]

Originally Posted by sns2

Please let me know how a teacher would know if a parent is going to beat the living tar out of their child? Osmosis? Psychic giftings?? Crystal balls??? Do you really think that this doesn't happen to kids coming out??? Are you so blinded by your political conservatism that you can't figure out that a gay kid doesn't need another layer of fear in their lives that a teacher, who is supposed to be a trusting adult figure, may rat them out to their parent who may be very against their sexuality, which they did not choose in the first place?

This is not a perfect bill. Life is not perfect, nor is it lived out in black or white. It's not the role of a teacher. We teach curriculum. We are not psychoanalysts. And I am comfortable in making the blanket statement that if a parent is unaware that their child is gay, they are approaching failure status as a parent.

These are not sex clubs people. They are peer support groups for a group of kids who have the highest suicide rate in all society, and are at the most fragile point in their lives. If you think that threatens the foundation of western society, then I am at a loss for words.

Simmer down.

So do you agree that this bill removes a connection that could have been comfortably made between teachers and parents? What about parent / teacher meetings? What can be said? Keep in mind that this bill is only about GSA’s on the surface. The premise is frightening.

While the child is a minor, it should be the parents’ right to know what their child is doing at school, end of story.

[JDK71]

Originally Posted by Okotokian

oh jeeze.....

yes you have something you would like to say?

[JDK71]

i have a boy that at 7 years of age i started to see a change in him as time went by i new he was gay school whet good for him until 15 16 years old they he started to be picked on . i am always there for him he came out when he was 17 i hugged him and said hay we are all different in are own way .It was hard with him for a long time but with support he is 25 now and doing good .just letting you know i have been there with my son .I am not just a key board hero

[Twisted Canuck]

Originally Posted by JDK71

i have a boy that at 7 years of age i started to see a change in him as time went by i new he was gay school whet good for him until 15 16 years old they he started to be picked on . i am always there for him he came out when he was 17 i hugged him and said hay we are all different in are own way .It was hard with him for a long time but with support he is 25 now and doing good .just letting you know i have been there with my son .I am not just a key board hero

Good on you, I think that is the right thing to do as a parent. You love your kids and do the best you can for them.

[JDK71]

and taking some tips from the teacher helped (thanks TC)

[Ken07AOVette]

Originally Posted by Newview01

Sounds like this passed.

Parents, the education system has deemed themselves to be better at raising your children than you are.

My short story was in response to the reply above. Teachers are more important in children's lives than we give them credit.

But I don't agree with what is being imposed. Teach them let us raise them.

[Newview01]

Originally Posted by Ken07AOVette

My short story was in response to the reply above. Teachers are more important in children's lives than we give them credit.

But I don't agree with what is being imposed. Teach them let us raise them.

I agree, teachers are a huge part of a child’s life. Which makes the communication between parent and teacher that much more important.

[sns2]

Originally Posted by Newview01

Simmer down.

So do you agree that this bill removes a connection that could have been comfortably made between teachers and parents? What about parent / teacher meetings? What can be said? Keep in mind that this bill is only about GSA’s on the surface. The premise is frightening.

While the child is a minor, it should be the parents’ right to know what their child is doing at school, end of story.

We agree to disagree. I will say it again, if a kid is gay and the parents don't know, then there is something dreadfully amiss. Though a teenager has never confided in me that they are gay, if they did, the first question I would ask is if they had spoken with their parents. If they hadn't, I would urge them to. If they didn't feel comfortable with it, I would ask why not, but ultimately I think that is between them and their folks. It's just not my place to out a gay kid if there is any potential for harm, and there is no way if us knowing. The potential for placing any student in harm's way is antithetical to the very heart of what makes a good teacher. Further, it's just not our job.

Sent from my LG-H812 using Tapatalk

[Newview01]

Originally Posted by sns2

We agree to disagree. I will say it again, if a kid is gay and the parents don't know, then there is something dreadfully amiss. Though a teenager has never confided in me that they are gay, if they did, the first question I would ask is if they had spoken with their parents. If they hadn't, I would urge them to. If they didn't feel comfortable with it, I would ask why not, but ultimately I think that is between them and their folks. It's just not my place to out a gay kid if there is any potential for harm, and there is no way if us knowing. The potential for placing any student in harm's way is antithetical to the very heart of what makes a good teacher. Further, it's just not our job.

Sent from my LG-H812 using Tapatalk

Ok, I agree with you to a degree, but do you support that fact that you are forbid to tell the parents? Do you not at least want the option?

[sns2]

Originally Posted by Newview01

Ok, I agree with you to a degree, but do you support that fact that you are forbid to tell the parents? Do you not at least want the option?

No, I don't want it. I'm a teacher, not a counselor. No one I know wants to play big brother, or usurp the authority of a parent. We just want to teach as best as we can, be positive adult role models, and facilitate the future academic and social success of the kids in our classrooms. Contrary to popular belief, the vast majority of us do not want to play Dr Phil.

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[Okotokian]

Originally Posted by JDK71

yes you have something you would like to say?

You need further explanation of my meaning? I thought it would be obvious.

But OK. You are being WAY too sensitive. Sns said nothing remotely offensive to you.

[Newview01]

Originally Posted by sns2

No, I don't want it. I'm a teacher, not a counselor. No one I know wants to play big brother, or usurp the authority of a parent. We just want to teach as best as we can, be positive adult role models, and facilitate the future academic and social success of the kids in our classrooms. Contrary to popular belief, the vast majority of us do not want to play Dr Phil.

Sent from my LG-H812 using Tapatalk

Than we agree that this bill should not have passed.

[HighlandHeart]

Glad this wasn't a thing when I was teaching in Alberta. I wouldn't have felt comfortable talking about anything with a student that I was legally obligated to keep from their parents. Have fun trying to find teachers who want to volunteer to run this after school club.

[sns2]

Originally Posted by HighlandHeart

Glad this wasn't a thing when I was teaching in Alberta. I wouldn't have felt comfortable talking about anything with a student that I was legally obligated to keep from their parents. Have fun trying to find teachers who want to volunteer to run this after school club.

Wild horses couldn't get me near it.

Sent from my LG-H812 using Tapatalk

[midgetwaiter]

Originally Posted by Newview01

So do you agree that this bill removes a connection that could have been comfortably made between teachers and parents? What about parent / teacher meetings? What can be said? Keep in mind that this bill is only about GSA’s on the surface. The premise is frightening.

Well that there is why we're having a problem with this debate. Some of us are discussing what's written into the bill and others are discussing a hidden reality only they can uncover with their carefully trained third eye or whatever.

How about we just stick to what's real rather that what we think is "really going on"?

[Ken07AOVette]

Originally Posted by Newview01

I agree, teachers are a huge part of a child’s life. Which makes the communication between parent and teacher that much more important.

Agree 100%

[densa44]

The post was really about; "is this a wedge issue"? From the look of the responses it is.

Just so you know I see all politicians in the same light, they are all drawn from the same well. Some good some bad, but all politicians.

I have seen other issues like this one but the most recent involves the federal gov't so I think it needs a new thread.

[sns2]

Originally Posted by normstad

Easy answer. The NDP knew that Kenney would dog-whistle to his social conservative base.

They set him up, he bit, and as a result the NDP now is painting all UCP supporters as bigots and anti-gay. I sure hope that this is the only time, but I have a sneaking suspicion that they will try and define the UCP the same way the Wildrose was depicted back in 2012.

If they are successful, and this is only the first shot across the bow, and if the Alberta Party puts all their scat in a pile, don't count the cakewalk that was predicted only a few weeks ago for the UCP. It was clear that when Brian Jean was rejected, even though it was just as clear that he was the most popular politician in Alberta by the UCP, where the party was leaning.

Personally, I'll hold my breath until the policy conference. Depending on how that goes will influence where I do. And more importantly, where most Albertan's will be. Most Albertan's are not socially conservative.

Very insightful. I couldn't agree with you more.