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  #1  
Old 04-05-2024, 09:38 AM
Pekan Pekan is offline
 
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Default How bad does it have to get before Albertans decide separation is the best option?

The feds have been using AB as a cash machine for years and in my opinion, they really don't care too much about us. How many laws and taxes that are against AB's best interests will it take for Albertans to decide separation is the way to go?
Or will this go on like this forever?

It seems to me that the Federal government will never reflect the values of most Albertans, so what's the point of staying in confederation?
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  #2  
Old 04-05-2024, 09:43 AM
dmcbride dmcbride is offline
 
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If Trudeau wins the next election I am seriously considering moving to another country.
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Old 04-05-2024, 09:49 AM
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mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

so many thoughts

so little time

wanted to separate since turd-0000o00 one
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Old 04-05-2024, 09:50 AM
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It's already way past being bad as far as I see it

Canadians are apathetic. That's why it's bad. Government can only do what citizens allow. and Canadians allow it.

The demographic has changed. And it is by design.

Things ARE bad. The demographic HAS changed. We ARE living in a much dufferent Canada.....it has already haopened....on our watch.....
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Old 04-05-2024, 09:52 AM
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I have been voting since I was 18 and am 57 now. Only seen a few Conservative governments rule the land in that time. What I have seen election after election is how more than not, the east makes up my mind long before I cast a vote.

If PP & crew can't knock that turd and his crooks out and soundly, after everything they have done this time around, any future federal votes will be protest votes to either a AB bloc party or separation party. If my vote don't matter anyway, why bother supporting the big blue one.

I have had more than enough of the east/libs sticking it to the west.
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Old 04-05-2024, 09:57 AM
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[QUOTE=dmcbride;4714527]If Trudeau wins the next election I am seriously considering moving to another country.[/QUOTE

If we get another sparkle socks government, you may not have to... The population of Alberta may well move to another country without going anywhere.
Be careful what you wish for though... That would be followed by a massive wave of immigration from the rest of Canada - just remember more than half of the voters didn't vote to support the Clown Prince
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Old 04-05-2024, 10:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by huntinstuff View Post
It's already way past being bad as far as I see it

Canadians are apathetic. That's why it's bad. Government can only do what citizens allow. and Canadians allow it.

The demographic has changed. And it is by design.

Things ARE bad. The demographic HAS changed. We ARE living in a much dufferent Canada.....it has already haopened....on our watch.....
How sad that you are 100 % correct. We watched the Libs and the lefties change Canada right under our noses.

Watching all these anti Israel protests and not one banner says down with Hamas. Our own gov split on who to support, flip flopping along the issue, picking both sides when it is convenient to them. We are a small version of the United Kingdom now where immigration issues are showing their ugly side.
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  #8  
Old 04-05-2024, 10:21 AM
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The Federal Peovincial relationship sucks. Alberta has been feeding the socialist provinces like Ontario, Quebec, BC and the maritimes for way too long at the same time some of them has blocked our oil and gas from market, which sale helps supply those transfer payments. Hydro uses Canadian water… Quebec should be paying us a royalty.

That all said…

Segregation as in becoming a separate company is impossible. First Nations won’t go and they won’t give up their rights to whatever. Alberta shouldn’t take on that social cost either. It will eventually crush the economy down the road.

We would also be landlocked. US would jack up our costs for everything.

We would be SOL on National Parks… they’d go to Canada.

Transportation of goods and border protects would be very expensive.

Likely we would remove the need for bilingualism which would cost money to switch.

We would need a much higher level public service to cover everything… more expensive in theory.

The conversation should instead center around getting the appropriate number of seats in parliament based upon our increasing population.

We should demand all autonomy that Quebec has and simply say we want equal treatment.

Arguing for an impossibility is a waste of energy. Arguing for doable change makes sense.
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Old 04-05-2024, 10:45 AM
Big Grey Wolf Big Grey Wolf is offline
 
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I like Sundance, he does not dream about some utopia that does not exist.
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Old 04-05-2024, 10:49 AM
Grizzly Adams1 Grizzly Adams1 is online now
 
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We should demand all autonomy that Quebec has and simply say we want equal treatment.


Strange to me we've never pushed for this before. That Not Withstanding clause in the constitution is not just there for Quebec to thumb their noses at us.
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  #11  
Old 04-05-2024, 10:58 AM
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If it hasn't been bad enough yet, it never will be.
It's like starting your own business, lots of people could make more money if they did it, but most don't.
At this point, Alberta will only be separate from Canada if someone separates it forcefully.
Enjoy the slavery.
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  #12  
Old 04-05-2024, 11:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sundancefisher View Post
The Federal Peovincial relationship sucks. Alberta has been feeding the socialist provinces like Ontario, Quebec, BC and the maritimes for way too long at the same time some of them has blocked our oil and gas from market, which sale helps supply those transfer payments. Hydro uses Canadian water… Quebec should be paying us a royalty.

That all said…

Segregation as in becoming a separate company is impossible. First Nations won’t go and they won’t give up their rights to whatever. Alberta shouldn’t take on that social cost either. It will eventually crush the economy down the road.

We would also be landlocked. US would jack up our costs for everything.

We would be SOL on National Parks… they’d go to Canada.

Transportation of goods and border protects would be very expensive.

Likely we would remove the need for bilingualism which would cost money to switch.

We would need a much higher level public service to cover everything… more expensive in theory.

The conversation should instead center around getting the appropriate number of seats in parliament based upon our increasing population.

We should demand all autonomy that Quebec has and simply say we want equal treatment.

Arguing for an impossibility is a waste of energy. Arguing for doable change makes sense.
Meh, very easy solution to all of these above- we just declare a war on US and then surrender right away, lol! Problem solved!
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  #13  
Old 04-05-2024, 11:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sundancefisher View Post
The Federal Peovincial relationship sucks. Alberta has been feeding the socialist provinces like Ontario, Quebec, BC and the maritimes for way too long at the same time some of them has blocked our oil and gas from market, which sale helps supply those transfer payments. Hydro uses Canadian water… Quebec should be paying us a royalty.

That all said…

Segregation as in becoming a separate company is impossible. First Nations won’t go and they won’t give up their rights to whatever. Alberta shouldn’t take on that social cost either. It will eventually crush the economy down the road.

We would also be landlocked. US would jack up our costs for everything.

We would be SOL on National Parks… they’d go to Canada.

Transportation of goods and border protects would be very expensive.

Likely we would remove the need for bilingualism which would cost money to switch.

We would need a much higher level public service to cover everything… more expensive in theory.

The conversation should instead center around getting the appropriate number of seats in parliament based upon our increasing population.

We should demand all autonomy that Quebec has and simply say we want equal treatment.

Arguing for an impossibility is a waste of energy. Arguing for doable change makes sense.
All those arguments against are bargaining chips in our favour.
Canada doesn't want to give up the national parks?
Sure, keep them.
Want to have continued access to them? Well now you have to give us access to the ports on the coast.
Same with the reserves.
We sure don't want that burden, but if they want to join us as equals they are welcome. Anyone who doesn't is free to live on a Canadian reserve that's an island in the middle of our new country. And we can bargin for access to them.
And if you think switching away from bilingualism will do anything but save us money, you're dreaming.
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  #14  
Old 04-05-2024, 11:08 AM
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It's been bad enough for a number of years.
Alberta, the 51st state.
Come on Donald, make Alberta great again
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  #15  
Old 04-05-2024, 11:11 AM
Smoky buck Smoky buck is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KGB View Post
Meh, very easy solution to all of these above- we just declare a war on US and then surrender right away, lol! Problem solved!
Creative way of thinking

I don’t know if joining the US would be a big improvement with the present state of things there

But really Alberta will not separate out of fear instead of looking for solutions. Sundancefishers post is an example of that

It definitely wouldn’t be easy and there is challenges that would need to be addressed to calculate how things would go. One thing is for sure if any province actually committed to separating it would be a major shakeup

As for Alberta being landlocked plenty of countries function under these conditions already. Also there would be some pretty interesting negotiations taking place once good needed to travel to or from BC from other parts of Canada. It’s not like detouring around is a simple task with the US to the south and poorly developed territories to the north

I would support separation but it’s not going to happen
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  #16  
Old 04-05-2024, 11:21 AM
dmcbride dmcbride is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sundancefisher View Post
The Federal Peovincial relationship sucks. Alberta has been feeding the socialist provinces like Ontario, Quebec, BC and the maritimes for way too long at the same time some of them has blocked our oil and gas from market, which sale helps supply those transfer payments. Hydro uses Canadian water… Quebec should be paying us a royalty.

That all said…

Segregation as in becoming a separate company is impossible. First Nations won’t go and they won’t give up their rights to whatever. Alberta shouldn’t take on that social cost either. It will eventually crush the economy down the road.

We would also be landlocked. US would jack up our costs for everything.

We would be SOL on National Parks… they’d go to Canada.

Transportation of goods and border protects would be very expensive.

Likely we would remove the need for bilingualism which would cost money to switch.

We would need a much higher level public service to cover everything… more expensive in theory.

The conversation should instead center around getting the appropriate number of seats in parliament based upon our increasing population.

We should demand all autonomy that Quebec has and simply say we want equal treatment.

Arguing for an impossibility is a waste of energy. Arguing for doable change makes sense.
Premier Smith has been doing a good job on trying to get more autonomy like Quebec
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  #17  
Old 04-05-2024, 11:39 AM
Pekan Pekan is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sundancefisher View Post
The Federal Peovincial relationship sucks. Alberta has been feeding the socialist provinces like Ontario, Quebec, BC and the maritimes for way too long at the same time some of them has blocked our oil and gas from market, which sale helps supply those transfer payments. Hydro uses Canadian water… Quebec should be paying us a royalty.

That all said…

Segregation as in becoming a separate company is impossible. First Nations won’t go and they won’t give up their rights to whatever. Alberta shouldn’t take on that social cost either. It will eventually crush the economy down the road.

We would also be landlocked. US would jack up our costs for everything.

We would be SOL on National Parks… they’d go to Canada.

Transportation of goods and border protects would be very expensive.

Likely we would remove the need for bilingualism which would cost money to switch.

We would need a much higher level public service to cover everything… more expensive in theory.

The conversation should instead center around getting the appropriate number of seats in parliament based upon our increasing population.

We should demand all autonomy that Quebec has and simply say we want equal treatment.

Arguing for an impossibility is a waste of energy. Arguing for doable change makes sense.
I would expect that back when the US declared independence from Britian, many Americans brought up similar points that you're bringing up. Look how that turned out.

My point is circumstances change, just because things seem a certain way, doesn't mean they will stay that way forever.
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  #18  
Old 04-05-2024, 11:48 AM
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In my mind the only way it work is if Northern BC, Saskatchewan, and Alberta went together - not going to happen unfortunately.

The best option is Northern Separation - just start a new country at the 50th parallel. Keep all the resources and eliminate the leeches. Have a look at the map and you will see what I mean.
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  #19  
Old 04-05-2024, 11:53 AM
densa44 densa44 is offline
 
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Default First things first.

I can remember 4 Conservative governments in my life time, John Dienenbaker's was the first, he had nothing but problems with his own cabinet, Mulrooney had the GST and collapsed the party, Joe Clarke tried to govern like he had a majority when he didn't, most recently Steven Harper, who said that "I had more trouble with my caucus than I had with the Liberals" given what I hear on here I can guess what it was. Why can't the conservatives in this country get along together? We are seeing it too in Alberta where we have a definite rural urban split.

How many countries with a population are successful? None.

The real question is why don't Canadians vote for conservatives in large numbers, and when they do, why do the conservative governments fail?
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Old 04-05-2024, 11:56 AM
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Most guys on here cant figure out the hunting draws system......how in hell could they form self government?

👹
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Old 04-05-2024, 12:03 PM
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According to Nostradamus, Humans are in for much pain.
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Old 04-05-2024, 12:22 PM
Smoky buck Smoky buck is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by huntinstuff View Post
Most guys on here cant figure out the hunting draws system......how in hell could they form self government?

👹


It’s even worse when you add the rest of society into the mix
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Old 04-05-2024, 12:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by densa44 View Post
I can remember 4 Conservative governments in my life time, John Dienenbaker's was the first, he had nothing but problems with his own cabinet, Mulrooney had the GST and collapsed the party, Joe Clarke tried to govern like he had a majority when he didn't, most recently Steven Harper, who said that "I had more trouble with my caucus than I had with the Liberals" given what I hear on here I can guess what it was. Why can't the conservatives in this country get along together? We are seeing it too in Alberta where we have a definite rural urban split.

How many countries with a population are successful? None.

The real question is why don't Canadians vote for conservatives in large numbers, and when they do, why do the conservative governments fail?
Canadians have had it to good for to long. We are a weak nation and we keep electing weak leaders. Anything to get a government teat in our mouths. Amazing to me how many think that more government is in their own best interest. Weakness is why we are so divided, the weak hate strong people, men in particular (toxic masculinity) so we end up with a man hating PM and government. Men are frowned upon in Canada, heck the education system is hard at work driving out every masculine leaning in boys. This is why our eunuch PM hates Alberta, way to many men. We are screwed.
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Old 04-05-2024, 01:48 PM
HyperMOA HyperMOA is offline
 
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Starvation is what is needed. Mass starvation is about the only thing that cause the serf to react.
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Old 04-05-2024, 03:00 PM
Pekan Pekan is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by huntinstuff View Post
Most guys on here cant figure out the hunting draws system......how in hell could they form self government?

👹
Yeah fair point. We're hooped.
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  #26  
Old 04-05-2024, 03:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sundancefisher View Post
The Federal Peovincial relationship sucks. Alberta has been feeding the socialist provinces like Ontario, Quebec, BC and the maritimes for way too long at the same time some of them has blocked our oil and gas from market, which sale helps supply those transfer payments. Hydro uses Canadian water… Quebec should be paying us a royalty.

That all said…

Segregation as in becoming a separate company is impossible. First Nations won’t go and they won’t give up their rights to whatever. Alberta shouldn’t take on that social cost either. It will eventually crush the economy down the road.

We would also be landlocked. US would jack up our costs for everything.

We would be SOL on National Parks… they’d go to Canada.

Transportation of goods and border protects would be very expensive.

Likely we would remove the need for bilingualism which would cost money to switch.

We would need a much higher level public service to cover everything… more expensive in theory.

The conversation should instead center around getting the appropriate number of seats in parliament based upon our increasing population.

We should demand all autonomy that Quebec has and simply say we want equal treatment.

Arguing for an impossibility is a waste of energy. Arguing for doable change makes sense.
Don’t forget the huge decline in population making Alberta even less significant. I suspect at least 40% of the population would migrate out leaving a housing surplus and a serious downturn to our economy.

This happened when Quebec actually was serious about separating, industry and jobs left in droves . That is why they softened their stance to what it is now. Just making demands backed up by veiled threats they have no intention of caring out , but it gets them what they want .
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  #27  
Old 04-05-2024, 04:42 PM
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MountainTi MountainTi is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jungleboy View Post
Don’t forget the huge decline in population making Alberta even less significant. I suspect at least 40% of the population would migrate out leaving a housing surplus and a serious downturn to our economy.

This happened when Quebec actually was serious about separating, industry and jobs left in droves . That is why they softened their stance to what it is now. Just making demands backed up by veiled threats they have no intention of caring out , but it gets them what they want .
As much as I would love to see 40% of the population leave Alberta (I own land so not worried about my property devaluing) I just can't see it happening. Those that leave wouldn't have contributed much to the workforce anyways
All I can see transpiring is a bunch of investment returning and Alberta booming.
Oh, and open carry as well as $5 copenhagen again
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  #28  
Old 04-05-2024, 05:15 PM
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This province is voting more left all the time. Two biggest cities voted for left leaders . Chances are eventually NDP would get to govern Alta.even if we separated. I think that would be worse than if we stayed part of Canada. Not sure how that would work. Might be too late. Tell me it ain’t so.
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  #29  
Old 04-05-2024, 05:16 PM
cody j cody j is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MountainTi View Post
As much as I would love to see 40% of the population leave Alberta (I own land so not worried about my property devaluing) I just can't see it happening. Those that leave wouldn't have contributed much to the workforce anyways
All I can see transpiring is a bunch of investment returning and Alberta booming.
Oh, and open carry as well as $5 copenhagen again
Open carry and $5 Copenhagen? I’m in!
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Old 04-05-2024, 05:22 PM
W921 W921 is online now
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jungleboy View Post
Don’t forget the huge decline in population making Alberta even less significant. I suspect at least 40% of the population would migrate out leaving a housing surplus and a serious downturn to our economy.

This happened when Quebec actually was serious about separating, industry and jobs left in droves . That is why they softened their stance to what it is now. Just making demands backed up by veiled threats they have no intention of caring out , but it gets them what they want .
Anglo's leaving Québec is what they wanted. I would love it if all the leftists ,weed twisting,gun hating hippies got out of Alberta. I actually think we should be doing things so they will get out of here.
Example we could hire Brazil to take care of our prison system. When we catch a bad guy we ship him to Brazil to become rehabilitated and make it hard for therm to ever come back.
We outlaw drugs ,sparkles and anything else they love.
We offer one way airline tickets and public housing in Ottawa. Free rent for 6 months.
We outlaw vagrancy and build public rifle ranges ,etc. Make a game out of thinking of ways we could encourage these people who ruin everything to leave the province.
Right now we probably have the best Premier that we ever had and Pierre Poilievre stands a good chance of being next Prime Minister. Let's not split the vote and end up with another liberal crook Prime Minister.
I was a big Reform guy back in the day. All we did was split the vote and gave several elections to Liberals
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