Illegally stocked perch

[Geezle]

So after being out at Hasse, and hearing about Sundance and Enchant, I got to thinking about lakes with illegally stocked perch. Just how many of them are there now...I'm sure there's more than just those 3.

Of course once they're in there, they are almost impossible to get rid of, so what can be done? It's fun for a while to catch a ton of tiny perch, but it comes at the cost of the larger fish that actually belong in the lakes.

One guy we were chatting with out there said that Hasse also had a couple pike stocked to try to thin out the perch, and ghostguy6 said he saw a little one down the hole, so I guess that's good. It was also suggested that Hasse could be made into a good perch lake if they were to stop stocking the rainbows, and instead fire some pike in there to thin out the perch population.

[WayneChristie]

since I love pike, I agree, they should stock some pike in those lakes, or maybe Browns to eat the perch. I dont think little stocked rainbows have much chance of thinning out the population. I remember fishing one of the lakes in Cypress Hills way back when, and someone had dumped perch in there too, last I heard there were walleye in there now, maybe they were trying to thin out the perch. Now dump in some pike to eat the walleye, then some great white sharks to thin out the pike, then.............. guess it never ends. always going to be some knob who wants to fish for perch in a new place, maybe they should just stock them in some of the dugouts around here then I could keep them thinned out.

[oagie]

I think the Brooks town pond has perch in it where it was originally a trout pond. Lake Midnapore in Calgary as well.

IMO, its not so bad to have perch in Lake Sundance. Its a community lake and the kids like catching fish. Big, small, perch, trout. It doesn't matter to them. As long as the perch are managed and it doesn't turn into a stunted lake, I am happy with it.

I don't expect to catch trophies in my back yard. I just want to have family fun.

[Geezle]

Originally Posted by WayneChristie

since I love pike, I agree, they should stock some pike in those lakes, or maybe Browns to eat the perch. I dont think little stocked rainbows have much chance of thinning out the population. I remember fishing one of the lakes in Cypress Hills way back when, and someone had dumped perch in there too, last I heard there were walleye in there now, maybe they were trying to thin out the perch. Now dump in some pike to eat the walleye, then some great white sharks to thin out the pike, then.............. guess it never ends. always going to be some knob who wants to fish for perch in a new place, maybe they should just stock them in some of the dugouts around here then I could keep them thinned out.

How did I know you'd have something to say about this?

I was kinda wondering how putting in one species that doesn't belong to take care of another would affect things. I guess in some of the smaller stocked ponds and whatnot that maybe didn't have a native population to begin with it wouldn't be too bad...but I could see problems in the bigger lakes for sure.

On a sidenote I love the Cypress Hills park...been there camping a few times on the SK side many moons ago, but never fished out there. Might have to put that one on the list

[Wulfespirit]

In terms of the latter suggestion, it's tricky to find a good balance. Mink Lake (20 mins from Hasse) has a ton of stunted perch as well and more pike than Hasse (though still not a ton). It seems they still don't make a dent in the population and 99% of the perch remain tiny with the odd keeper swimming around.

A lake like Hasse isn't large enough to support huge numbers of larger perch in any case. If more pike were introduced to trim them down and, in a few years, more of the stunts got up to reasonable size due to a substantially reduced population, the lake might be easily fished out (especially considering its popularity and proximity to the city).

As much as I love perch, I think that lake would offer more opportunity for better fish if it went back to being the trout only lake it was in the past.

[Geezle]

Originally Posted by oagie

I think the Brooks town pond has perch in it where it was originally a trout pond. Lake Midnapore in Calgary as well.

IMO, its not so bad to have perch in Lake Sundance. Its a community lake and the kids like catching fish. Big, small, perch, trout. It doesn't matter to them. As long as the perch are managed and it doesn't turn into a stunted lake, I am happy with it.

I don't expect to catch trophies in my back yard. I just want to have family fun.

Yeah, Sundance is a bit of a special case I think. Even though it's fun for the kids to catch the perch, how much effort are others having to put in with netting and such just to 'manage' the perch?

[WayneChristie]

the Alberta side of Cypress Hills is beautiful too, and is a very historical area for Canada. lots of small pike and some perch in Elkwater Lake too. caught 100 pike there over a week of fishing way back when.

[Geezle]

Originally Posted by Wulfespirit

In terms of the latter suggestion, it's tricky to find a good balance. Mink Lake (20 mins from Hasse) has a ton of stunted perch as well and more pike than Hasse (though still not a ton). It seems they still don't make a dent in the population and 99% of the perch remain tiny with the odd keeper swimming around.

A lake like Hasse isn't large enough to support huge numbers of larger perch in any case. If more pike were introduced to trim them down and, in a few years, more of the stunts got up to reasonable size due to a substantially reduced population, the lake might be easily fished out (especially considering its popularity and proximity to the city).

As much as I love perch, I think that lake would offer more opportunity for better fish if it went back to being the trout only lake it was in the past.

Though this was my first trip to Hasse, I'm going to have to agree that as far as angling goes, it would definitely be better if it was back to being just a trout lake.

That being said, now that the perch are in there, what can be done?

[Wulfespirit]

Killing off the lake and restocking would be my best suggestion - though that might cause an uproar as lots of people seem to love catching 50 baby perch in a day.

Outside of that, add alot more pike to the lake and stop stocking bows (less food competition). In a couple of years, cut the perch/pike limit to 5/1 and hope for the best.

[WayneChristie]

or maybe make the perch limit unlimited for that lake, so people would eventually make a big dent in the population, then the pike could clean up the rest

[Geezle]

Seems to me that an unlimited perch limit would just encourage people to stock perch in other lakes they don't belong in.

Stock perch
Wait a couple years
Catch and take home unlimited perch

I can see how something like that would appeal to a certain crowd.

Or maybe I'm just way off base...

[genoel]

I also don't get why people introduce perch into these trout lakes. It seems as if the perch fishing is good for a year or two and the the lakes become festered with stunted perch. Edith Lake by Swan Hills has the same problem. It used to be a great little Brookie lake and now its full of small perch. Hasse is another one I don't understand. Its not like there are not other lakes close to Hasse where a person can't go and catch perch. I think if they ever catch someone doing it they should make them resposible for the cost of removing the perch and reintroducing the trout. Nothing against perch fishing but there are more than enough places to do it without screwing up the trout lakes! Without the pike the lakes become full of 4 inch perch which are fun to catch for about 10 minutes and then just become a pain.

[cribfisher]

Hasse had a natural pike/perch population until about 1952-53 when there was a total winterkill. They then stocked it with trout for a few years but due to demand tried to re-establish pike perch and even stocked walleye. When the lake had a partial winterkill toward the end of the sixties they poisoned the lake and stocked only trout from then on.

[Scotty P.]

I just got back from 2 days at Phyllis lake. The number of Perch we caught out numbered the rainbows almost 2 to 1 and not one of them were worth keeping.

[oagie]

Originally Posted by genoel

I also don't get why people introduce perch into these trout lakes.

In most cases its as simple as a kid and a bucket.

[Hatfisher]

FYI: The Lake in Cypress Hills AB that was illegally stocked, was with Walleye. It was Spruce Coulee. It is stocked with Brook Trout. There is a limit of 3 Walleye with no size limit.

From the Regs,

Spruce Coulee – Open all year – Trout limit 5; Walleye limit 3 (no size limit). Harvest encouraged to remove illegally stocked walleye from stocked Brook Trout fishery.

Fished there a few times and have never caught a Walleye there.

[sheepguide]

Originally Posted by Scotty P.

I just got back from 2 days at Phyllis lake. The number of Perch we caught out numbered the rainbows almost 2 to 1 and not one of them were worth keeping.

Ive fished Phyllis for 25yrs and the perch have always been small the trout dont hang in the same area as the perch. Most times if your catching perch its best to move. These lakes are annually stocked so the perch dont hurt the trout population the loads of people keeping them does. Boat the lake in the summer and you see lots of trout but they can be pretty fussy on what they bite on. Tay lake is the same way if you fish the south end of the lake you get into perch but very few near the north end.
SG

[Scotty P.]

Originally Posted by sheepguide

Ive fished Phyllis for 25yrs and the perch have always been small the trout dont hang in the same area as the perch. Most times if your catching perch its best to move. These lakes are annually stocked so the perch dont hurt the trout population the loads of people keeping them does. Boat the lake in the summer and you see lots of trout but they can be pretty fussy on what they bite on. Tay lake is the same way if you fish the south end of the lake you get into perch but very few near the north end.
SG

Thanks for the tips! I was under the impression that the Perch have only been introduced in the last couple of years but obviously I'm wrong. Do you know why, if the Perch have been in there for so long, they are still so small? Too much competition for food with the rainbows?

[Sundancefisher]

Originally Posted by Scotty P.

Thanks for the tips! I was under the impression that the Perch have only been introduced in the last couple of years but obviously I'm wrong. Do you know why, if the Perch have been in there for so long, they are still so small? Too much competition for food with the rainbows?

This is a standard read to see what the problem is in Alberta

http://www.srd.alberta.ca/ManagingPr...djp_Sept24.pdf

Illegal perch introductions are an ongoing problem and concern.

Cheers

Sun

[Sundancefisher]

Originally Posted by Geezle

So after being out at Hasse, and hearing about Sundance and Enchant, I got to thinking about lakes with illegally stocked perch. Just how many of them are there now...I'm sure there's more than just those 3.

Of course once they're in there, they are almost impossible to get rid of, so what can be done? It's fun for a while to catch a ton of tiny perch, but it comes at the cost of the larger fish that actually belong in the lakes.

One guy we were chatting with out there said that Hasse also had a couple pike stocked to try to thin out the perch, and ghostguy6 said he saw a little one down the hole, so I guess that's good. It was also suggested that Hasse could be made into a good perch lake if they were to stop stocking the rainbows, and instead fire some pike in there to thin out the perch population.

While Hasse may be big enough to support some pike...it was a way better trout lake. Pike will not thin out perch. They typically eat the trout first...then perch. Trout are easier to swallow and not that hard to catch once they get close enough.

The perch will reproduce exponentially and out compete trout for food and space. There is no controlling perch via angling. The population growth is much to big. Maybe a combination of intensive netting and angling could keep their numbers down and sizes up but the volunteer effort in the Spring would be large.

Trick is to find the bucket jerks and cover them in honey and stick em on a fire ant colony...

[Sundancefisher]

Originally Posted by sheepguide

Ive fished Phyllis for 25yrs and the perch have always been small the trout dont hang in the same area as the perch. Most times if your catching perch its best to move. These lakes are annually stocked so the perch dont hurt the trout population the loads of people keeping them does. Boat the lake in the summer and you see lots of trout but they can be pretty fussy on what they bite on. Tay lake is the same way if you fish the south end of the lake you get into perch but very few near the north end.
SG

The perch hurt them by out competing them for food and eliminates the chance for a quality trout fishery. Stock them and yard them out before they starve is probably a good solution.

[Sundancefisher]

Originally Posted by oagie

In most cases its as simple as a kid and a bucket.

Unfortunately it is adults either doing it or condoning it. Kids can't drive a bucket of fish somewhere without mom and dad driving them.

The big problem on the west slopes is most likely an adult with a bone to pick. Thinking they know more about fish and what to catch. People that can't catch a trout in the summer think there is nothing there...remember the days of yore when they caught perch off the dock at Wabamun or where ever and think hmmm...perch would make for good summer fishing. Unfortunately they are brain dead when it comes to understanding the damage they are doing or care less about trout and all the other fishermen.

Basically these people are idiot selfish jerk dumb asses that deserve no sympathy from anyone whatsoever.

IMHO...

[pondstomper]

I do love perch, and trout, and well....all species of fish for fishing. Alberta originally didn't have any brown, rainbow (athabassca rainbow excluded), and brook trout in this province. The only trout we had was the bull and cutthroat, maybe some lakers up north. The perch, would be a great fishery maybe have a community perch fry. A good way to cull out overpopulated ponds and lakes. 10 bucks all you could eat kind of thing. Been to a few in Ontario. Delish! Would also be a good way to raise money for the community or fish habitat restoration. Just an Idea, just throwing it out there.
PS. I do know that perch, and trout, well any species of fish or animal not native to an area can have adverse effect on the ecosystem. Its a fine line to find an effective ballance in nature.

[Geezle]

Thanks Sun, that was a good read

[TJG]

Originally Posted by Sundancefisher

This is a standard read to see what the problem is in Alberta

http://www.srd.alberta.ca/ManagingPr...djp_Sept24.pdf

Illegal perch introductions are an ongoing problem and concern.

Cheers

Sun

People like Sundance and Don Andersen in RMH are in favor
of killing fish for the betterment of trout fishing. Yes it’s wrong
for the bucket bios to be doing this, but who gives anyone the
right to kill millions of fish for the sake of a few trout.
What if all the walleye they stock in Sylvan, Pigeon, PCR, ect, were
endangered by some mysteriously introduced competitor for forage,
do you kill a lake that may include trout, as well as other fish?
The bios that are looking after our lakes needed to find some
better answers and stop listening to organizations like Trout Unlimited,
and trout fisherman ****ed about their local lakes.
Now, I know this is going to start a poo storm, but I need to say my
peace and vent for the few that r thinking it but wont speak.

[RUBBERDUCKY]

how does one get their hands on perch to stock a private lake, or some trout.

[DarkAisling]

Originally Posted by TJG

People like Sundance and Don Andersen in RMH are in favor
of killing fish for the betterment of trout fishing.

You can include me in that list. I view perch in pretty much the same way I view the mice under my deck (who I'm trying to kill). Is there anywhere those things aren't a nuisance?

[diamonddave]

"Now, I know this is going to start a poo storm, but I need to say my
peace and vent for the few that r thinking it but wont speak."

They probably won't speak because I'm thinking that you are in the vast minority in your thoughts. But i could be wrong....

[C@RN@GE]

Hassie went from being full of 12 inch perch to under 6 inch perch in a year. Sound like everything over 6 inches died off that year. Has nothing to do with the 30 plus vehicles on it every day. Or the fact that as soon as one is keep able it is kept. But nope there stunted for sure. Same with spring before it winterkilled. 5-7 years ago u could catch 12+inch perch and some massive trout out of there. Then a couple of post showed up and it went from being a amazing fishery to a lake with small trout and 5 inch perch in less then a year. Then people that followed the post assume its stunted. Ignoring the fact there’s 50 to 100 people on these lakes everyday looking for something to keep. Mons use to be a great lake for bigger perch and pike. Same thing happened people post it gets fished out people that follow the post assume it stunted. I’m not saying lakes didn't stunt. But it takes a lot longer then a couple years.

[Geezle]

Originally Posted by DarkAisling

You can include me in that list. I view perch in pretty much the same way I view the mice under my deck (who I'm trying to kill). Is there anywhere those things aren't a nuisance?

I'd say they're not a nuisance in lakes they are native to, where conditions and predators keep them in check. Perch are tasty and it's fun when you can get into some bigger ones.

The pike bait we were catching yesterday were entertaining too, but the fish need a little more substance to them...make 'em worth cleaning