Dont Tell Your Spots

Yet another post on this, I apologize.

After reading some of the posts and threads on this subject I have come to realize that some of us as anglers are living in some sort of magical fantasy land. For the few of you who still refuse to believe that posting specific information will ruin a lake, I suggest you view some of the other forums over the internet.

Many websites have set-up "Rules" for posting fishing reports. They encourage a fishing report but no location. Whats the problem with this?
The more important question is why have they done this? Its because lakes have been destroyed by overfishing, garbage, and LAZY fisherman.

Half the work in fishing is finding spots, you are not an angler if you punch in a GPS tag and watch your screen.

Why cant AOF have a rule like this? The fishing pressure in this province is extremely high on what lakes are here. Ontario has tons of lakes and yet Ontariofishing.net imposes a rule such as the one I stated.

We are living in the past here, we better smarten up with the resource before its gone. Dont say it wont happen, there are many lakes that this has already happened to.

[uicehole]

I totally agree. All of the smaller fisheries just can't handle the pressure. You might include a hint or two of its general location (eg. east of Calgary) to encourage exploration and hope but definitely leave out the name of the waterbody.

[WaterSkeeter]

I agree KyleM, I posted pictures the other day and guys wanted to see the angler and the spot, but I said the reason why I blocked out faces and background. There my special spots for a reason, and it doesn't take much to ruin a good spot.

[critter]

I agree with Kyle, however if specifics are not given, i believe its ok. For example, the big laker i got out of spray.. i dont beleive that is a big deal, as no one knows where on that massive lake i caught it, and worst case scenario, a few more ppl go out and get their pan fry.. When it comes to stocked trout ponds around calgary (Bonavista, Sundance, Arbour) i dont think it matters either, as it is not open to the general public, and they are stocked for that reason, for people to put and take. If the lake is not open to the general public and is on an indian reserve or inaccessible chunk of land, i also dont think its a real big deal. Posting pictures of nice fish from a remote lake with no details as to what lake they were caught in is also ok, as guessing a location relative to landmarks and certain trees is extremely difficult/impossible to do. Just wondering exactly what posts are really concerning you kyle?

[Gary K]

I agree. Even though I'm new to the provience. I went to carburn park on a walk. Didn't bring my gear andthe buzz alone on this fourm is enough to collapse this small pond fishery

[fishnut9]

You guys do know that you are part of the problem as well right. I doubt all of you catch and release.

[Gary K]

I just have seen many lakes back home go dead. This site is great for info but when people post the hotspots they die. I have no problem with people talking about lakes and what to use there. It's the. " lake whatever has a ton of fish... It's nonstop action". Well it does stop. When the fishery collapses. I'm not saying to not share info. Just keep it s little lower key

[jts1]

I take it with my Google Map with over 130 00 lookies and my 100% opposite view I wont be on the Xmas list. The idea of taking your knowledge to the grave is to me one from the dark ages. I believe sharing as much as you can , locations included "dont get me wrong every man has to have a hunny hole or two for himself" is fundamental in providing a sustainable fishery for the future. I have helped out some first time fishermen and old birds who have forgot more than I will ever know. I have driven to a strangers home and gave him my own personal gear just to find out if this thing we all love called fishing is for him. Because that feeling I get when the drag sings or when the surface of the water is broken by a wonderful explosion of man vs fish.I want everyone to feel that. Because I am a believer that more than not will respect the fishery so he may enjoy it for many more trips. And maybe just maybe pass on something I showed him to the next generation. Will there be the few who poach , pollute and generally dont give a crap , Sure there will be. But they are far out numbered by responsible fishermen such as yourselves. So till they put my fat ars in the ground I will be out there bringing new and old fishermen alike to a hunny hole near you.

[CanadianEh]

Perhaps what you do in a situation like this is have a separate forum channel for such location sensitive fishing reports.

Ie... maybe you restrict access to contributing members and need to have minimum 250 posts to access and read that forum, maybe more.. I dunno.

Generally the people you are trying to keep from accessing the knowledge that you have; are not going to spend the time to post 250 messages on this forum.. and are the same ones who will go destroy such great fishing lakes. They are googling for a quick honey hole location, make an account do a search and presto locations all over the board. I can see why no one would want to distribute fishing reports and locations, including myself. they are the ones who do not want to spend the time and effort to get the reward.

I maybe naive, But i think most longer term contributing members I have talked to on this board are very much about conservation, catch and release 95% -100% of the time, yet also enjoy giving tips and helping each other. I believe if people spend a significant amount of time to make a post, tell a fishing tale or perhaps are looking for or looking to give a little help; Over time and posting messages they get to know people on the board and people know them.. they are far less likely to abuse the benifit of reading specific location fishing reports.

Like JTS said... there will always be a few bad apples... but they will be very few and far between if they contribute and post so much on the forum.

Just an idea... but it seems to make sense for both sides of the argument.

[Shmag]

Originally Posted by KyleM

Yet another post on this, I apologize.

After reading some of the posts and threads on this subject I have come to realize that some of us as anglers are living in some sort of magical fantasy land. For the few of you who still refuse to believe that posting specific information will ruin a lake, I suggest you view some of the other forums over the internet.

Many websites have set-up "Rules" for posting fishing reports. They encourage a fishing report but no location. Whats the problem with this?
The more important question is why have they done this? Its because lakes have been destroyed by overfishing, garbage, and LAZY fisherman.

Half the work in fishing is finding spots, you are not an angler if you punch in a GPS tag and watch your screen.

Why cant AOF have a rule like this? The fishing pressure in this province is extremely high on what lakes are here. Ontario has tons of lakes and yet Ontariofishing.net imposes a rule such as the one I stated.

We are living in the past here, we better smarten up with the resource before its gone. Dont say it wont happen, there are many lakes that this has already happened to.

AMEN brother AMEN!!!






Just keeping my post to a couple line's as the ones that disagree on this subject like to read between the lines and argue about something they think they read.

[MK2750]

The vast majority of environmental damage is done by those that are completely oblivious to the creatures we share the planet with. These weekend warriors have heard a call to the bush but lack any understanding of how fragile it is.

AO magazine and the forum give us an opportunity to educate these people on the importance of conservation rather than having them run wildly a field as if it is their personal recreation area.

Success (whether it be hunting or fishing) dramatically increases the enjoyment level for a newbie or wantabie and the vast majority are quick to gain a respect for the resources we all enjoy. A lack of success often sours a person and creates an “us and them” mentality about a sport they don’t clearly understand.

When important political issues arise only those that understand and enjoy hunting and fishing with stand up and fight against the “liberal ideology” that truly threatens our heritage.

Take every opportunity to welcome new comers and also take the time to educate them on conservation. Make every effort to show them success and the allies we gain will insure the future of hunting and fishing, not destroy it.

[fish on]

PCR was hit hard this winter. I went early and late notice a huge decline in the burbot

Conservation has everything to do with this thread.

I dont feel that giving away spots promotes conservation, it promotes another way to be lazy in this day and age.

Part of our sport requires one to be unsuccessful to actually call it fishing.
If we always went out and caught fish, it would be called catching not fishing.

Nobody disputes that helping out a newbie to the sport is a good idea. Its the posting on a WORLD WIDE WEB thats the bad idea. Why not ask for some help in the forum and if one feels the need to help, they may PM the person with the specifics.

[honda450]

Myself I find it more rewarding to find my own spots whether it be hunting or fishing. Ya sometimes put alot of time in for spots that I think may be good and I get skunked and move on. Never have took anything I have read on this forum and said well I gotta go there. Ain't my style.

Yes I have my spots and I do not publish them. I found them, now you find them.

Just have fun on exploring, thats alot of fun in itself. To me anyhow.

[Izumi]

I agree Kyle.

I think alot of the Problem has to do with the number fo trolls.

Today:
176 members and 187 guests

You should have to join to forum to read the forum. Too many people just out too leech and give nothing back.

JTS' map highlights this! Look how many people on that thread have 1 post. The 1 post to request the map. I'm with the Sask boys on that map...

[iliketrout]

I like the idea of limiting guests to a certain number or percentage of on-line members, but I don't think you will see that happen. This forum generates revenue by advertising like any other forum on the internet. If you limit the number of guests, you limit the number of potential customers for the advertisers...so they pay less money, the forum generates less revenue to the point where it's not sustainable etc.

Maybe restricting guest would cause more people to join, maybe it wouldn't...who knows. Unfortunately with a free forum, we're stuck with leeches.

[catnthehat]

If I don't want anyone to know something , I don't post about it.
if I have to block out my face or the location, I don't [post the picture, simple as that.
We don't need a "no posting location " rule, we need to use some dicretion, that is all.
Cat

[spopadyn]

I absolutely agree with JTS on this. We have beat this mule to death. Here is the problem: all you people who don't want to share info shouldn't be on this forum. Simple as that. You are a hypocrite and you should be ashamed of all of your sanctimonous preaching. Why are you here? Who has violated anything that BELONGS TO YOU? These are all public resources and we all share in the responsibility of paying our taxes and maintaining them. It seems to me you have no problem with the general public paying to stock lakes and maintain fisheries - you just don't believe they should know where to fish. Give it a rest. This is not about conservation - this is about elitism. And I really like this "lets restrict access to the trollers". Why don't all you smart C&R secret fishermen form your own website and share your secrets there. Oh, I forgot, you also like AOF to provide a free forum to you - but only just a select few. Again, what hypocrites.

[jts1]

Originally Posted by Izumi

I agree Kyle.

I think alot of the Problem has to do with the number fo trolls.

Today:
176 members and 187 guests

You should have to join to forum to read the forum. Too many people just out too leech and give nothing back.

JTS' map highlights this! Look how many people on that thread have 1 post. The 1 post to request the map. I'm with the Sask boys on that map...

Yes but that is the basic idea of the map. Anyone can view it and anyone can feel free to post a location. It is not mandatory that if you view my map you need to post a location that is up to each viewer. If you have a spot you want to keep private then great so be it. But the simple fact is that there is no such thing as a spot only you know about. So when someone els puts up your "secret location" Take it with a grain of salt. I would love to show you some of the feed back I have got from my map and things I have done to help other anglers. Right from letters that would make the hardest man shed a tear , to the ugly threats I have got because there top secrete hole or lake has been posted. You would be amazed and ashamed at how fast a adult responsible angler can turn into an ignorant child on a rant stomping there feet because they dont want to share... This aint grade school and our fisheries are not your toys. They belong to each and everyone of us. And in turn its our obligation to promote and sustain it for many more generations to come. I wonder how many of you that dont agree with my map have snuck a peek from time to time.. hmmmmmmmmm

[iliketrout]

Originally Posted by jts1

Yes but that is the basic idea of the map. Anyone can view it and anyone can feel free to post a location. It is not mandatory that if you view my map you need to post a location that is up to each viewer. If you have a spot you want to keep private then great so be it. But the simple fact is that there is no such thing as a spot only you know about. So when someone els puts up your "secret location" Take it with a grain of salt. I would love to show you some of the feed back I have got from my map and things I have done to help other anglers. Right from letters that would make the hardest man shed a tear , to the ugly threats I have got because there top secrete hole or lake has been posted. You would be amazed and ashamed at how fast a adult responsible angler can turn into an ignorant child on a rant stomping there feet because they dont want to share... This aint grade school and our fisheries are not your toys. They belong to each and everyone of us. And in turn its our obligation to promote and sustain it for many more generations to come. I wonder how many of you that dont agree with my map have snuck a peek from time to time.. hmmmmmmmmm

Well said Jeff. I agree with the map idea, I think it is great. Yes I have used it as well. Does this make me lazy though, I don't think so.

I also think a PM goes a long way if you want more information on a particular spot. They increased our inbox limit size so there's no reason not to use them. I've used PM's both to help someone or to see if someone wanted to give me a nudge in the right direction.

The problem I have with leeches is not the fact that a secret spot became public. I think if you are looking for help and are helped, maybe the favor could go the other way as well.

[Redfrog]

Originally Posted by catnthehat

If I don't want anyone to know something , I don't post about it.
if I have to block out my face or the location, I don't [post the picture, simple as that.
We don't need a "no posting location " rule, we need to use some dicretion, that is all.
Cat

How could that possibly work, Cat???

I say more rules and lots of them. That's the ticket.

[CanadianEh]

Originally Posted by KyleM

Conservation has everything to do with this thread.

I dont feel that giving away spots promotes conservation, it promotes another way to be lazy in this day and age.

Part of our sport requires one to be unsuccessful to actually call it fishing.
If we always went out and caught fish, it would be called catching not fishing.

Nobody disputes that helping out a newbie to the sport is a good idea. Its the posting on a WORLD WIDE WEB thats the bad idea. Why not ask for some help in the forum and if one feels the need to help, they may PM the person with the specifics.

Kyle, if you read my post above what are your comments?? Personally i agree with both sides of the argument.

keep the open free fishing forum, but make a restricted sub category for members with say 250 posts or above.. that way no trollers or guests can read posts from that section. that pretty much eliminates 98% of the problem people you are arguing against. And helps to protect the information to legit conservation aware members.

Perhaps you are one of the few... but I guarantee you have been told about some good spots from time to time whether the information was on here or not. perhaps you have even searched for those tips or locations.

[FishBrain]

If it wasn't for this forum, and some of the members on it, there is a good chance I would not be fishing. I joined this forum for hunting info. simply because I am a new hunter and thought this would be a great place to learn.
Shortly after joining, I got to meet some great people. These people took me out fishing, showed me what to do and what to use, gave me tips on where to go and what to look for. For that I am very grateful. Heck even my first ice rod was DONATED to me!!!!! (thanks Mish) and that got me hooked.
I dont go to new lakes very often as I have three kids and there is a good chance one comes with me. When I fish with my kids, I like to make sure that we can get somewhere, get setup and have them catching fish as fast as possible, that is what is going to help make them more concious about our resources. If we drive for hours looking for a lake, only to find out that it is dead or just a slough, they are going to not want to go, then in turn may not care about the resources that this province has to offer them and possibly not learn how to care for said resources.
So for the users of this forum to start removing lakes to go to, and what is possible of being caught in said lake, does not help anyone. Just because a lake is posted on THIS forum does not mean it is going to become crowded and killed. It means that MAYBE someone is going to find a new spot for them to fish in, and maybe they will be able to catch something different than what they were used to.
OH and yes, I was shown places to fish, and I have shown some new people places to fish. what comes around goes around.

[superspud]

I agree with jts mostley on this one.

I like jts's map since it provides a large amount of information with many different locations that are spread out.
and really that map dosent provide to much information that isent general knowledge to a person that has been fishing alberta for a a few years.

the problem i have with posting about specific spots on this forum is that the pressure that can be created by this forum. on smaller creeks
though i dont have any evidence to back it up; I think that if you post
( 100 fish day on nose hill creek in calgary all over 15inch long)
in the subject box, and you post directions on how to get to that stretch of the river, then with in the next week you are gonna have way more pressure on a very small area. now of course that situation is not realistic on nose hill creek but you but that idea. and i think that increased preussure can definitly have adverse effects


im all for helping people out if ya want to shoot me a pm, but i definitly feel that information to mass amounts of people can hurt our smaller fisheries. post what you want, but moderation is that key

not saying that i dont use tips.
just recently i decided to fish near the glenmore bridge and have made good friends with the same brown 19.5 inch brown trout twice now!

[olson308]

look at the numbers right now: 401 (161 members 240 guests)
Total members: 16,034

I have to be a member to post, but at work most times i'm a "guest" as i dont stay logged in on my work PC. I log-in to check messages, and once in a while to post something. but in most cases, i view the posts and learn from the conversations, and get some great ideas of where to start exploring for fishing. I usually dont put in my 2cents as i dont need to post on everything (which BTW, what would stop me from posting "i agree to ....." 250 times to get around the "limit") i like to read what other people think about on topics and get ideas for new tips or equipment, doesnt mean i need to post something.

what JTS put together for a map (which i added to) is a great resource. i live in Edmonton, and i like to see where i could go and know i could go fishing elsewhere and have a chance at successfull fishing, rather than exploring and getting skunked constantly. I posted some loactions as i beleive its a benefit to anglers to see what else is out there to get out and explore.

i understand people dont want their spots spoiled, so just dont put them out there. If it means that much to you, just tell people your rather keep it to yourself, and most people 'should' respect that. i would.

O.

[Ken07AOVette]

We did a "LOOK WHAT I CAUGHT AT LAKE X" thread.

Sounds like that is what you guys are looking for, maybe search that.

Best way to handle it, is if you dont want to say anything, dont post.

Find a spot, use it, do whatever you want, but don't whine and moan if someone you tell tells someone else.

Is it really so difficult we need to invent new rules about post count?

I think anyone with a post count of under 1250 should not be able to start a thread like this

[jts1]

As an example because of this thread I have had request in PM's and on my map thread for access to it. Again I have sent them all out. But I recieved one reply back that I think some of you should read. When ever I send out my map I send this header along with it;

Here is the link to my map. I started it for myself to keep track of spots I had fished on the Bow above Gap Lake. It has since turned into something more with over 133,000 views. This map is a gathering of fishermen willing to share locations and help others enjoy this great sport we all love. There is no obligation to add locations , but feel free to share if you have something contribute.

I will ask that you respect all locations as if they were your own ,and Keep all of your posts detailed. GPS is a great idea to add to you posts. Any locations not named will be deleted I will try and send you a mesg granted you have created the Google map profile.

As well a Google Map profile will allow you to keep in touch with other collaborators on the map but is not necessary. But most of all Good Luck out there , and Stay Safe. If there is any problems or questions please feel free to send me a msg.

And the responce I got;


Thank you so much for adding me to your map, to be honest with you this is my second year hear in Alberta and I do not know much of the spots rather than what I heard from my friends and my coworkers , but this is my next step to examine these spots and I will participate with others through your handy map.

Be sure that I will use your map spots ethically and in profession manner.

Thanks again!

That is what sharing locations and information is all about.

I do agree that a small fishery could be wiped off the map if it was over exposed. But there is that odd chance that exposing it will at the same time allow some responsible anglers to protect and Cherish it as well. Left to its own eventually it will succumb to fishing pressure , pollution or what ever the case may be.

[Izumi]

Originally Posted by jts1

Yes but that is the basic idea of the map. Anyone can view it and anyone can feel free to post a location. It is not mandatory that if you view my map you need to post a location that is up to each viewer. If you have a spot you want to keep private then great so be it. But the simple fact is that there is no such thing as a spot only you know about. So when someone els puts up your "secret location" Take it with a grain of salt. I would love to show you some of the feed back I have got from my map and things I have done to help other anglers. Right from letters that would make the hardest man shed a tear , to the ugly threats I have got because there top secrete hole or lake has been posted. You would be amazed and ashamed at how fast a adult responsible angler can turn into an ignorant child on a rant stomping there feet because they dont want to share... This aint grade school and our fisheries are not your toys. They belong to each and everyone of us. And in turn its our obligation to promote and sustain it for many more generations to come. I wonder how many of you that dont agree with my map have snuck a peek from time to time.. hmmmmmmmmm

I'ts all about colaberation on information versus giving information away.

I think there are people, myself included, that think there are too many people looking to just take and there is just too little looking to share.

So I guess thats why the basic idea of your map is not well recieved by some people. The contrast explains itself, if i'm lazy and do ALL my "legwork" on the internet, i'm going to love you for your map. That being said, i'm certain there are a large number of legitimate users of your map, and I dont deny that. I just think from reading the thread and looking at the numbers associated with your map it is apparent it is been used more as a lazy mans tool.

I'm not protesting it, or asking you to take it down, or any of that jazz, but some you seem of you seem to be shocked or baffeled when it's not always well recieved, So i'm just giving you another perspective to think about.

[Morph1]

fishing is so unpredictable, I would not giva a sh** about any map of fishing spots, I find satisfaction in finding my own fishing spots, and in regards to this thread I am also 100% with Kyle , besides this forum is not only for sharing where the bite is but also about equipment, tactics, knowledge, sceneries captured on photos etc, if you come down here and need a fishing map to go fishing you are a one lazy sob that does not deserve to be fishing.

JTS just look at Hasse lake description on your map , you seriously believe that all those entries on your map are true ???? I bet 75% of them are as misguiding as the info on Hasse, I appreciate your efforts though in making the map, obviously you are a very generous guy...,

last words in this thread, it does not matter where you go and how skilled you are and what awesome equipment you may have, or what info you may leach..., after all is about luck and mainly being at the right place at the right time......

[jts1]

I just think from reading the thread and looking at the numbers associated with your map it is apparent it is been used more as a lazy mans tool.

I can not argue with you there. But it is not my position or my obligation to make a judgment call on if you have shown yourself as a responsible angler or a leach. I provide it now its up to them to do what they will.

JTS just look at Hasse lake description on your map , you seriously believe that all those entries on your map are true ???? I bet 75% of them are as misguiding as the info on Hasse

Myself I have never had the pleasure of fishing there so again this may be true. The results you get in a group of people such as the ones you will find on this forum are going to be good and bad when you apply the honor system on something like the map.

I would like to say one thing most threads such as these turn into a gong show with insults and cut downs being tossed around everywhere. You have all expressed your opinions and we have been able to keep this as it should be. A place to share them opinions without fear of being attacked. Good job guys..