Corb Lund on Coal Policy Changes and our Eastern Slopes

[C2C3PO]

Yes, as Canadians we all owe a great debt of gratitude towards the likes of our fellow countrymen ( and entertainers ) - Dr. David Suzuki, Neil Young, James Cameron and Corb Lund for pointing out to the world the error of our ways !

Their collective wisdom surely must outshine any semblance of reasoning we might have to want to extract some of the resources we may naively feel this country has been blessed with.

Better to leave it in the ground where these "filthy curses" came from than attempt to responsibly extricate them so we may benefit in some small way from their wretched existence.

I propose statues be made immediately of all four of these great men to replace others who, over the course of the last 150 years, started us down this terrible path of prosperity and independence......oh wait...

[bsmitty27]

Originally Posted by Pekan

I would say that Corb Lund has succeeded in the sense that he raised awareness that there's an issue for us to disagree on! I think many Albertans didn't have any idea about the changes to open pit mining in the Eastern slopes.

I fully admit that when it comes to this I'm biased. If this were taking place in Hanna or Oyen I'd care less, but I spend time in areas that will be effected.

Here's another aspect to consider:
coal is $130/tonne. The royalties will be $1.30USD/tonne. But that's after they get up and running. Well there's already a lawsuit siting "failure to consult". But they're not suing the mining companies, they're suing the AB govt. So you and me will be investing in legal bills for the next who knows how long, just to pave the way for the mining companies to get going. Does that sound like a sensible investment?
What does every environemntalist hate more than pipelines? COAL! They will sue and sue and sue over this.

X2

[huntsfurfish]

Alberta's mountains make up a small percentage of Alberta. Our southern East slopes even less. Open pit mining should not be allowed.

Those areas are owned by the people of Alberta, and its future generations, not just Kenny and his buddies.

Beginning to think there is nothing out of bounds for UPC.

Betting NDP will feed off of this.



Edit: Starting to think park is better than coal and its sad that those are our only choices!

[Puma]

Originally Posted by jungleboy

The world would be better served if entertainers would stick to their jobs .

It seems that Y2Y and some other ENGO's are doing a big push right now to stop any developments. Lots of this is not fact based. The majority of these coal mines were existing, then reclaimed and this company wants to rework then reclaim to todays standards.

I have seen some of the well organized misinformation attacks being planted on some other sites, petitions circulating etc. We need to be very aware of this here, it will come. The have some pretty tricky people joining up then targeting specific posters with things like "your a hunter, don't you care about conservation...do you want your drinking water poisoned with selenium... etc.

You will recognize some of these characters from Back Country Hunters etc. Apparently they have fooled Corb Lund, Paul Brant and some others to support them.

[59whiskers]

Funny how Alberta is attacked fiercely on coal by every celebrity. Why isn’t Corb attacking coal mining just over the divide in BC? Alberta is a easy target by.

[Pekan]

Originally Posted by 59whiskers

Funny how Alberta is attacked fiercely on coal by every celebrity. Why isn’t Corb attacking coal mining just over the divide in BC? Alberta is a easy target by.

Corb Lund and Paul Brant are Albertans. I guess it matters to them.

I think Paul Brant is known as a pretty great person, avid fly fisher I've heard, has done a pile for charity. He's not just some wing nut rock star or hollywood guy.

Plus that song Alberta bound. I chokes me up sometimes! lol.

[Head Lice]

Originally Posted by 59whiskers

Why isn’t Corb attacking coal mining just over the divide in BC?

Check out Sparwood, Elkford, Corbin, etc. . . . send Corb to Corbin. He'll be droning a song about that for sure.

[ESOXangler]

Guys these are the foothills of the rocky mountains. Their beauty is unrivaled and they're what make us. And they're talking about leveling a mountain and risking potential pollutants into our main watersheds.

If you loved the coal mines you worked at in BC then head back to them. Leave the mountains alone, we poke holes in the ground and we move dirt in the north. We don't need to be messing with our foothills like that.

[Rvsask]

Read about the gigantic cost to taxpayers in Australia for the cleanup of the mines in the mountains they wiped out. The companies won’t pay for it, you will.

[MrDave]

So how much money are these foreign owned companies going to put in the bank to pay for restoration? It won't be enough.

We Albertans own thousands of dead wells, battery sites, slurry pits and such. And for some reason the companies that took billions out of our ground disappeared from the face of the Earth without a trace. Calmar can't grow because of the abandoned wells, a farmer in Didsbury can't sell their land because of unrestored wells, and the pattern repeats all over Alberta. So next we need to destroy the foothills and let our Grandchildren inherit poisoned rivers and valleys on top of all that.

Remember when the USA was thinking about pipelining our water so they have drinking water? Where will you get your drinking water pipelined from? I know my drinking water comes from the snowpack in the west country, so what happens when the west winds starts blowing the dust containing selenium into your drinking water? Going to buy your water from Coke?

My ex-in-laws live in Coleman, at least a couple of them are still there. My nephew suddenly got sick with symptoms linked to the heavy metals, his father(who worked for Teck) suddenly came down with horrible cancers(plural). Both died horrible deaths. And unfortunately, the region has statistically higher incidences of both. The benefits haven't outweighed the problems for them.

[Big Grey Wolf]

In Alberta we only have a very narrow strip of mountains. In BC the whole province is mountains so tell the companies to stay their to dig their coal.
Peter Loughead protected the limited amount of mountains, tell UCP to leave them alone for recreation.

[59whiskers]

No body talks about water bodies on the prairies that can no longer support trout populations. Numerous lakes like Tyrell, Dipping Vat, Henniger, Bulls Head, etc can no longer support trout and it isn’t from coal mining. I am more concerned about contamination of our waters on the prairies from agricultural run off full of manure, herbicides and pesticides. If I was a celeb I would ask why does Tyrell Lake no longer support a trout population like it did in the 1970’s and most
recently pollution events at Bulls Head Lake. The Crowsnest River continues to be a blue ribbon trout stream like it has been for decades even when then all the coal tipples were running in the 1960,s. If people that complain about coal mines stop buying goods made in big box stores imported from Asia, then you might see less demand for Alberta/BC coal. I bet Corb and Paul shop at Costco.

[Rig-Rat]

I work in Oil and Gas, so I am in no way anti resource. I do think that somethings need to be off limits like our foothills, and mountains. Yes selfishly, as a guy who fishes them areas, I do not want to be cut off from them waters.
Also if the waters get contaminated, and it effects the irrigation, which in turn messes up the farmers/ranchers, I really do not want to see that happen also, as will effect hunting land. I am not up to speed on the full scale of the mines, so I do not profess to be an expert, but as a born Southern Alberta guy these areas can stay to recreation only as far as I am concerned. I want to spend time in areas with no steel and shovels, and haul trucks kicking up a storm.

[Kanonfodder]

The process is lead by the AB Energy Regulator, and Alberta Energy’s roll-back of the 1976 coal policy does not in any way absolve coal companies with prospective projects of following the province’s stringent environmental rules.
We have a lot more tools in our toolbox to protect our air, land, water, namely the headwaters, and wildlife than we did in 1976, including but not limited to:
o the Environmental Enhancement Act,
o the Eastern Slopes Policy,
o Integrated Resource Plans,
o Regional plans, and sub-regional plans.
o The establishment of the AER which has happened in the last decade.
No new coal projects have been proposed to the Alberta Energy Regulator since the 1976 coal policy was rescinded by the department of Energy.


The 1976 policy is silent on selenium. It never once mentions the mineral. Since 1976, the Clean Water Act was replaced by the stricter Water Act as well as the Environmental Protection and Enhancement Act – or EPEA--which set out newer policies to protect water quality and supply. Under EPEA, which came into effect in 1993, mountain mine operators must manage selenium. This includes submitting a selenium management plan to the Alberta Energy Regulator, with detailed information about risks and how to mitigate them. As part of a coal operation’s approvals, the company must monitor and treat wastewater according to stringent provincial guidelines.

Additionally, selenium is routinely monitored at 89 river and tributary sites across the province as part of our extensive river monitoring network. Again, these assessments are made by subject matter experts – biologists, hydrologists and other technologists. They are not political decisions

[bessiedog]

Yea.... them regs have done bubkus for the Elk Valley regarding selenium leeching.

I live here.... I walk over tipple piles everywhere.

There are tunnels collapsing and caving in here n there.

Fun fact.... good coal is ALL over Alberta.
It’s a matter of depth in most cases.

Reactivate the Leah ridge seams... or perhaps CoALdale... or COALhurst
Or Namao.....

Grassy Mountain... ok... maybe. Tent? Maybe cause the mines are there already.

Alberta Environment isn’t allowing new water wells in the valley... because the aquafir is tapped out...

That’s it... those two.. the rest? The OldMan watershed?
Forget it.

Not wanted, not needed.

[KegRiver]

Having read the various arguments, I believe I will change my mind.

I will support any initiative to stop this development.

What did it for me was the remarks about the history of resource development having a history of polluting and not mitigating any damage they did.

Just a couple of weeks ago I and some friends found a abandoned gas plant while hunting.
It was clear that there had not been any activity there in a long time. And no efforts had been made to remove anything. Buildings were left unlocked, propane tanks full or partially full, trash from operations scattered about. It was a hot mess, and it was in the path of the forest fire that had swept the area just a couple of years ago. There fire damage just a few miles away.

And honestly, it is one of the lesser of such things I've seen.

So until industry and their government overseers clean up their act, I can not in good conscience support any further development.

[ESOXangler]

Originally Posted by Kanonfodder

The process is lead by the AB Energy Regulator, and Alberta Energy’s roll-back of the 1976 coal policy does not in any way absolve coal companies with prospective projects of following the province’s stringent environmental rules.
We have a lot more tools in our toolbox to protect our air, land, water, namely the headwaters, and wildlife than we did in 1976, including but not limited to:
o the Environmental Enhancement Act,
o the Eastern Slopes Policy,
o Integrated Resource Plans,
o Regional plans, and sub-regional plans.
o The establishment of the AER which has happened in the last decade.
No new coal projects have been proposed to the Alberta Energy Regulator since the 1976 coal policy was rescinded by the department of Energy.


The 1976 policy is silent on selenium. It never once mentions the mineral. Since 1976, the Clean Water Act was replaced by the stricter Water Act as well as the Environmental Protection and Enhancement Act – or EPEA--which set out newer policies to protect water quality and supply. Under EPEA, which came into effect in 1993, mountain mine operators must manage selenium. This includes submitting a selenium management plan to the Alberta Energy Regulator, with detailed information about risks and how to mitigate them. As part of a coal operation’s approvals, the company must monitor and treat wastewater according to stringent provincial guidelines.

Additionally, selenium is routinely monitored at 89 river and tributary sites across the province as part of our extensive river monitoring network. Again, these assessments are made by subject matter experts – biologists, hydrologists and other technologists. They are not political decisions

The AER literally fired all the people that followed the full intent of the regulations. I can tell you the AER from even 4 years vs today are entirely different beasts.

[Tronneroi]

Originally Posted by Nyksta

So an Australian company is making money destroying the environment in Alberta so that china can make steel? And Alberta gets 1% royalties.... this doesn't sound like a great idea with the arrangement as is.

I think you hit the nail on the head... and for 400 jobs? Sounds like we get screwed harvesting our own natural resources as usual.

[whitetail Junkie]

Not a good idea IMO...against it 100%

[crazy_davey]

Originally Posted by bessiedog

Yea.... them regs have done bubkus for the Elk Valley regarding selenium leeching.

I live here.... I walk over tipple piles everywhere.

There are tunnels collapsing and caving in here n there.

Fun fact.... good coal is ALL over Alberta.
It’s a matter of depth in most cases.

Reactivate the Leah ridge seams... or perhaps CoALdale... or COALhurst
Or Namao.....

Grassy Mountain... ok... maybe. Tent? Maybe cause the mines are there already.

Alberta Environment isn’t allowing new water wells in the valley... because the aquafir is tapped out...

That’s it... those two.. the rest? The OldMan watershed?
Forget it.

Not wanted, not needed.

You of all people should be saying not wanted, not needed to this. If it weren’t for Teck operating so closely to the pass you likely wouldn’t have a job here. Period.
How are you going to be a teacher in the pass if there are no local jobs. Maybe support your family by working at FasGas or 7-11?

How do you think the local economy is going lately around here? Been down main street in Blairmore lately? Pincher? Do you not want to see our local community do better?{because it’s dead BTW}. Do you think a few fat old guys coming fishing in the summer a few times a season will do the trick? Obviously not, that’s a fact.

I would like to hear more opinions from people who actually live here, not just a bunch of weekend warriors from Calgary and Deadmonton.

And the selenium problem Teck is dealing with, you are wrong. Stop reading the Narwhal etc.. If you want to know the real story I can put you in touch with my wife who is high up and very involved with a team of people trying very hard to do the right thing. She can explain to you what they are working on and where the 100 million Teck is spending is being spent to fix things they never knew in years past. I also have two other friends working in this group.

[1899b]

Originally Posted by crazy_davey

You of all people should be saying not wanted, not needed to this. If it weren’t for Teck operating so closely to the pass you likely wouldn’t have a job here. Period.
How are you going to be a teacher in the pass if there are no local jobs. Maybe support your family by working at FasGas or 7-11?

How do you think the local economy is going lately around here? Been down main street in Blairmore lately? Pincher? Do you not want to see our local community do better?{because it’s dead BTW}. Do you think a few fat old guys coming fishing in the summer a few times a season will do the trick? Obviously not, that’s a fact.

I would like to hear more opinions from people who actually live here, not just a bunch of weekend warriors from Calgary and Deadmonton.

And the selenium problem Teck is dealing with, you are wrong. Stop reading the Narwhal etc.. If you want to know the real story I can put you in touch with my wife who is high up and very involved with a team of people trying very hard to do the right thing. She can explain to you what they are working on and where the 100 million Teck is spending is being spent to fix things they never knew in years past. I also have two other friends working in this group.

Jeeze man your way off base. You can’t call fat guys fat! Cmon..... lol

[308 man]

Why do people listen to celebrity people most of them know squat some don't even have any talent can only make noise that I don't enjoy so just be quite tell we face the truth how are we going to feed and shelter every one.

[Talking moose]

Decaprio does a shoot one week by Calgary. “ I’ve seen first hand the effects of climate change. It went from -15 to plus 5 in the course of hours....” chinook.
I’ll take the word of locals over celebs any day.

[bessiedog]

Thanks Davey

Don’t even know what the narwhal is.... but apparently I read it.

So.... lemme clarify what I posted.... cause it was pretty dang clear.

I said Grassy...... sure maybe
Tent...... sure maybe

Cause they were active once before.

Upper OMR..... nope.

And I’d love to hear from your high up wife.... let her shed light on the issue
I’m all ears

Then explain why Bushtown hasent been cleaned up yet.... that was promised 15 years ago or so.

Cross the river in Blairemore... useless tipple... leeching away.. can’t build on it.

Anywhere by the highway Bellevue
Can’t build... tipple.. sorry.

Nother shaft caved in up the hill... good times.

Alberta government has set the policy that the aquifer inCnP is almost tapped out.

Where’s Tent and Grassy gonna get their water...?

Show me a plan that convincingly protects the water supply and I’m good.

Benga alreadyf’ed up gold creek with some kinda spill into it few years ago....

So... by my eyes and experience so far.

Not the best track record.

And yes... some of my best friends work at tech.



But you jus go ahead and label me a tree hugger if it makes you feel good bud.

[KegRiver]

I wonder what the guys who used to work in Pine Point would say today.

Their mine shut down, the town got leveled, huge mess left behind.

But I doubt any of them starved to death. Not the miners or the teachers that taught in the schools there.

And yes I worked in Pine Point. But not while it was in operation. I was part of the crew that hauled most of the houses away.
And I have visited it recently, after all the cleanup was done and all the people long gone. It's still a hot mess.

[Talking moose]

Originally Posted by KegRiver

I wonder what the guys who used to work in Pine Point would say today.

Their mine shut down, the town got leveled, huge mess left behind.

But I doubt any of them starved to death. Not the miners or the teachers that taught in the schools there.

And yes I worked in Pine Point. But not while it was in operation. I was part of the crew that hauled most of the houses away.
And I have visited it recently, after all the cleanup was done and all the people long gone. It's still a hot mess.

I think ole Edwin made a fortune there.

[Bushrat]

Originally Posted by crazy_davey

You of all people should be saying not wanted, not needed to this. If it weren’t for Teck operating so closely to the pass you likely wouldn’t have a job here. Period.
How are you going to be a teacher in the pass if there are no local jobs. Maybe support your family by working at FasGas or 7-11?

How do you think the local economy is going lately around here? Been down main street in Blairmore lately? Pincher? Do you not want to see our local community do better?{because it’s dead BTW}. Do you think a few fat old guys coming fishing in the summer a few times a season will do the trick? Obviously not, that’s a fact.

I would like to hear more opinions from people who actually live here, not just a bunch of weekend warriors from Calgary and Deadmonton.

And the selenium problem Teck is dealing with, you are wrong. Stop reading the Narwhal etc.. If you want to know the real story I can put you in touch with my wife who is high up and very involved with a team of people trying very hard to do the right thing. She can explain to you what they are working on and where the 100 million Teck is spending is being spent to fix things they never knew in years past. I also have two other friends working in this group.

Face it those places are going to be ghost towns, future homes of tacky resorts and tourist traps. That's what happens to all one horse towns when they get tapped out. I've seen it, lived it, and left these type of towns. Propping them up for a few more years to scrape some more cheap coal or whatever the horse is dependent on is like propping a few timbers up to keep a barn from falling down for a little while longer. Sooner than later it's going down. Wrecking the environment for 400 temporary jobs then expecting millions of tax payers to foot the bill for clean up ( that's what always happens, if they clean up at all) after it's done is silly. It would be cheaper and better for the environment to buy out the residents of these towns so they can relocate to somewhere else.

[Tamarck]

“Only after the last tree has been cut down,
Only after the last river has been poisoned,
Only after the last fish has been caught,
Only then will you find out that money cannot be eaten.”
Cree Indian Prophecy

[crazy_davey]

Originally Posted by 1899b

Jeeze man your way off base. You can’t call fat guys fat! Cmon..... lol

Come on down in the summer, I’ll take you for a quick drive.

Shoulder to shoulder fat guys, fly fishing hoping to catch the next big one that hasn’t been caught yet, all while bitching about everything that’s wrong with our fisheries.

[crazy_davey]

Originally Posted by bessiedog

Thanks Davey

Don’t even know what the narwhal is.... but apparently I read it.

So.... lemme clarify what I posted.... cause it was pretty dang clear.

I said Grassy...... sure maybe
Tent...... sure maybe

Cause they were active once before.

Upper OMR..... nope.

And I’d love to hear from your high up wife.... let her shed light on the issue
I’m all ears

Then explain why Bushtown hasent been cleaned up yet.... that was promised 15 years ago or so.

Cross the river in Blairemore... useless tipple... leeching away.. can’t build on it.

Anywhere by the highway Bellevue
Can’t build... tipple.. sorry.

Nother shaft caved in up the hill... good times.

Alberta government has set the policy that the aquifer inCnP is almost tapped out.

Where’s Tent and Grassy gonna get their water...?

Show me a plan that convincingly protects the water supply and I’m good.

Benga alreadyf’ed up gold creek with some kinda spill into it few years ago....

So... by my eyes and experience so far.

Not the best track record.

And yes... some of my best friends work at tech.



But you jus go ahead and label me a tree hugger if it makes you feel good bud.

I’ll PM you later.