Cows On Crown Land

[BorealBucks]

This past hunting season i had an encounter with a farmer on crown land. I was loading my truck with my quad when him & his friend approached me. On the map i was on the piece of crown land that borders the road, this is the only access to the crown land from any side. On the north side of this piece of crown land their is a cultivation permit ( in yellow ) it is fenced in with the quarter north of it. The crown land i am on is not fenced neither is the 3 private quarters south of it. I did my due diligence, county map shows this piece as crown land along with iHunter app even the Alberta grazing lease look up shows it as crown and shows the cultivation permit in the north corner.

So when he approached me
Farmer - "What are you doing here?"
Me - "I am hunting moose this is crown land"
Farmer - "Im paying taxes on this piece, you know i have cows back there"
Me - "Oh i didnt know you had cows here, county map shows this as crown land & that it is a cultivation permit in the north corner"
Farmer - "Your gunna shoot my cows"
Me - "No i'm not here to shoot cows"
Farmer - "Thats what they all say"
Me - "Im not here to shoot cows or cause trouble with you or disrespect or hurt the land, im just here to hunt"

The convo continued his friend said some things like "Oh maybe you have to have your cows off by November 1st" I was being respectful even tho i know for certain i am in the right and he is in the wrong. It seems like once he knew i knew what i was talking about he never once said "get off my land" or "don't come back" or anything along those lines, overall it wasn't a bad encounter, it wasn't confrontational or any anger or raised voices, overall respect. I told him my name he told me his we shook hands & went our ways, didn't go back there this hunting season, but plan to in the future.

I went back and looked at the county map & the farmer i talked to was the guy who owned the two grazing leases in orange on the map (99% sure) & it wasnt the farmer who owned the cultivation permit in yellow. Why his cows would be venturing thru unfenced crown and private land that far from the grazing lease i don't know. This area is heavy dense forest.

My question is, is it illegal to have cows on crown land? My guess is it is, but i dont want to get this farmer in trouble, i just want to access all the crown land from that one quarter that he says he's paying taxes on, which i think he just said to keep people off of it. If i ever hunt there again i will carry a physical map with me & if i encounter him i will show him & see where the situations goes from there, i would happily call F&W if he wasnt satisfied with it. I would even go as far as parking on the cultivation permit & quad from there so he doesn't see my truck there because a cultivation permit has no "occupational rights to the land" & i would only park on an used uncropped part & quad down the road to access the crown land.

[IR_mike]

Cut the brand off and call it good.

[trophybook]

Originally Posted by IR_mike

Cut the brand off and call it good.

Good way to become a secret

[58thecat]

Report him I guess or enjoy a few beef steaks over winter

All kidding aside if your right like you mentioned carry the map with you and if approched by him pull out the map and ask him for an explanation, if mumbling and bs comes around then move on....your side of the story seems to be he is enjoying the extra grazing land is all.

[35 whelen]

My neighbor two quarters / over from me his cows are always on the crown land behind my place, theyused to come into my quarter until we have a discussion about it he told me he's been doing it for over 20 years I said that don't make it right, I'll even help you with your fences he never did fix his fences but he lets me hunt on his land so it's a good trade I guess, there is a place that you can phone ,cuz they are not allowed on Crown Land but I never followed up on anything.

Sent from my SM-G930W8 using Tapatalk

[honda450]

Cows abound in the Castle area. Wonder if that will continue?

[markmac]

In 406 (McLean Creek Area), there was someone grazing cattle in there this year. I just assumed that this was allowed, in an non-exclusive use scenario. As I hadn't hunted there much previously, I wasn't sure if they put them in there just because the fire ban was on and they knew there would be limited use in there, or if this was always the case.

[3blade]

Edit: Yes it's illegal.

[leeelmer]

Very Illegal, there are cases where ranchers can get a crown grazing permit.
But these areas are normally marked.
Call FW and let them sort it out.
You can also call the local grazing lease agrologist and they will tell you if there is a crown grazing licence for this lot,.
But by the sounds of it, with no fences from the private land that boarders it then it is unlikely.
Most of the local grazing offices are really helpfull and a pressuring the government to give them more control to deal with bad lease holders and bad farmers that graze where and when they are not allowed to.

[J0HN_R1]

Originally Posted by markmac

In 406 (McLean Creek Area), there was someone grazing cattle in there this year...

Grazing leases in K-country have been going on for years... Unfortunately.

https://www.albertaparks.ca/albertap...urces/#Grazing

[BorealBucks]

thanks for the info, i will carry a map with me next time & if i need i will call F&W to deal with it.

[Alfiecat]

I have a farmer in for a real surprise if he can’t put his cows on crown land. Guy has been a dick to me and always flips my cameras upside down. I have a video of him doi it. Along with his cows in and ON CROWN LAND. Can I please get further confirmation of this. As this cowboy farmer is in for a rude awakening next season.

[alpineguy]

Is it possible that these ranchers have their cattle on grazing allotments? These are non titled grazing areas of which a holder cannot restrict access. Having said that there are some who may try or believe they have a right to do so. They do however have the right to turn their cattle onto these pieces of Crown lands.

Grazing allotments are large areas of forested
range in the central and southern foothills of
the Rocky Mountains. They have minimal
fencing, are defined by natural barriers such as
rivers and mountain ranges and cattle only
graze a small portion in any given summer.

[BorealBucks]

Originally Posted by alpineguy

Is it possible that these ranchers have their cattle on grazing allotments? These are non titled grazing areas of which a holder cannot restrict access. Having said that there are some who may try or believe they have a right to do so. They do however have the right to turn their cattle onto these pieces of Crown lands.

Grazing allotments are large areas of forested
range in the central and southern foothills of
the Rocky Mountains. They have minimal
fencing, are defined by natural barriers such as
rivers and mountain ranges and cattle only
graze a small portion in any given summer.

so with this definition it wouldn't apply to northern alberta, about 2 hrs north. in the 500's WMU ?

[alpineguy]

Originally Posted by BorealBucks

so with this definition it wouldn't apply to northern alberta, about 2 hrs north. in the 500's WMU ?

Sorry I must have missed the location. Grazing licenses may also be a option here.

Grazing licenses are long-term authorizations used predominantly in forested areas where access for other priority activities, such as forest management, need to be accommodated.

http://aep.alberta.ca/forms-maps-ser...d-Dec-2003.pdf

^^ has all definitions for crown land grazing. Not saying this particular fellow had any of these in place, just offering some information.

[roughneckin]

This happens all across BC every growing season. Some ranches have had the same range allocation for decades. We used to occasionally find someone’s other free range growing going on too.

On a different note we used to have to at least attempt to keep cattle from trashing water bodies. We were out at Sibbald Lake and it is pretty much a puddle of cow feces. Does anyone know how to find out who has these allotments in Alberta and what the stipulations are on them? It would be nice to find out what can be done to prevent further damage if possible.

[35 whelen]

I don't think it's fish and wildlife that deals with it I believe it's somebody else call the MD office in your area

Sent from my SM-G930W8 using Tapatalk

[pa_of_6]

really...is it any of your business to begin with.

Consider yourself right...pat yourself on the back and move on!

Part of todays problems is there are way too many people in every ones elses business.

[Jayhad]

Originally Posted by pa_of_6

really...is it any of your business to begin with.

Consider yourself right...pat yourself on the back and move on!

Part of todays problems is there are way too many people in every ones elses business.

As a public land owner it is 100% his business, that's his, mine and even your land.... not the farmers

[pa_of_6]

good chance some hunter opened his gates and his cows got out

bet he is still looking for them

[catnthehat]

Originally Posted by pa_of_6

good chance some hunter opened his gates and his cows got out

bet he is still looking for them

According to the OP the farmer was well aware that he had cattle "back there", so I doubt very much anyone but the farmer himself left any gates open.
Cat

[trainerdave]

If you know who this Rancher is, why don't you try talking to him first before hunting. Bring all your maps and such, better approach. He may be more helpful if you are working together. Good planning leads to good luck. If both you and his cows are going to be there, perhaps he has a great idea on where you can get your moose, deer or elk? Sure, you may be legally ok to hunt on the crown land, but why not have the ability to hunt on some private land as well? And have an extra pair of eyes looking out for your interest, play the cards you are dealt... He is worried about his cows, you are worried about your hunting, reach a compromise. There are many more problems with CWD ,abandoned well-sites and tens of thousands of feral horses on crown land 24/7/365 in AB than a few cows. It has been a very tough year for forage in many areas... Your call..

[BorealBucks]

Originally Posted by trainerdave

If you know who this Rancher is, why don't you try talking to him first before hunting. Bring all your maps and such, better approach. He may be more helpful if you are working together. Good planning leads to good luck. If both you and his cows are going to be there, perhaps he has a great idea on where you can get your moose, deer or elk? Sure, you may be legally ok to hunt on the crown land, but why not have the ability to hunt on some private land as well? And have an extra pair of eyes looking out for your interest, play the cards you are dealt... He is worried about his cows, you are worried about your hunting, reach a compromise. There are many more problems with CWD ,abandoned well-sites and tens of thousands of feral horses on crown land 24/7/365 in AB than a few cows. It has been a very tough year for forage in many areas... Your call..

Exactly the kind of person i am, im not there to have any confrontations or anger anyone. He was nice to me so i shown the same respect in return, his cows shouldn't be there but I'm okay with the chance of encountering them.

[BorealBucks]

Update***

so i take pride in doing my due diligence when accessing new land i haven't been on before. I emailed the local Lands Officer & this was the reply i got, i will print a copy & laminate it along with a map in case i encounter the farmer again. The first part is to do with the Cultivation Permit, the second part is to do with the crown land the Cultivation Permit is on.


So long as you are not affecting a crop when it is on the land then you can enter. This time of year I do not see an issue. Grazing leases require consent and this is only a permit.



Yes the quarter section is on crown land but be advised that there is a protective notation for poorly drained soils. This means that the site is sensitive and may be prone to damage if not handled properly. You can enter onto the land but ask that you are conscious on how you access it. Under frozen ground conditions the soil should stay intact even with the use of a OHV/ATV. In the warmer months of the year it is advisable to use foot access so as not to cause damage. If you do use a ATV in other months please ensure you do not tear the soil and keep you quad clear of debris. This will help prevent fire and/or prevent weed seed transfer onto the site.



Please feel free to contact me to discuss further or if you require more information.

[trainerdave]

Good legwork. Chances are the cattle will be there off and on, good to let him know where you are anyway if you can. So you know where his cows are. Use the cows to your advantage if you are able to access areas around the cows. Most wildlife GENERALLY stay slightly away from cows, they can create quite a bit of noise bawling, feeding and stomping about in the bush as they are eating and drinking machines (what goes up must come down too) That being the case they inadvertently push game to where they are not. A few cows all looking right at you or spooking also blows your stealthy approach. I don't know if you can get him to move his cows, that might take some time. If he directs you to where the deer probably are that would be great ...anyone within a mile can see and hear where the cows are. Pretty sure he knows where the crown is. No man-tracker needed. Good luck and stay positive.

Who let the cows out....moo...moooo...moo...

My 2c

D.

[Ranch11]

Originally Posted by IR_mike

Cut the brand off and call it good.

Cattle rustler!! Now I know where my disappearing cows are going in the iron river area!!
Used to be a good hanging for cattle rustlers back in the day. Just sayin...

LOL!!

[Bluedog]

Free Grazed Cattle! 😋

[Termender]

Originally Posted by pa_of_6

really...is it any of your business to begin with.

Consider yourself right...pat yourself on the back and move on!

Part of todays problems is there are way too many people in every ones elses business.

Ayup, it's my business, and anyone else's business who is an Alberta resident and taxpayer.

I don't excuse poaching either.

It's crown land, it's my land and your land, and not every Tom, Hick or Harry has a right to do what they want on it.

Period.