Open minded discussion: paid access the pros and cons

[Norwest Alta]

I would like to keep this respectful. If that is not possible please keep your comments to yourself.

I'm a advocate of landowners rights and believe one of the rights a landowner should have is to do as he/she sees fit as long as it does not endanger the general public nor have adverse effects on the environment. In my mind paid access includes hunting, fishing, camping and just about anything some might want to do on private deeded land.

I'm gonna guess that many like myself have never paid nor received payment for access to private except if you're a camper who stays in campgrounds. If you've been involved in paying for access I would like to hear your experiences and thoughts.

These are some of the pros I can think of off hand.

Landowner can make additional income of the property
Open up more private land for recreational users
Average landowner might be more inclined to better manage the property in terms of wildlife

The cons
Not all could afford the access fee
Potentially could lead to more trespassing violations

Please fill free to add if you are a landowner or not.

[Lefty-Canuck]

When you assign a $$$ value to access things get locked down and it becomes a rich mans game period.

LC

[shooter12]

Originally Posted by Norwest Alta

I would like to keep this respectful. If that is not possible please keep your comments to yourself.

I'm a advocate of landowners rights and believe one of the rights a landowner should have is to do as he/she sees fit as long as it does not endanger the general public nor have adverse effects on the environment. In my mind paid access includes hunting, fishing, camping and just about anything some might want to do on private deeded land.

I'm gonna guess that many like myself have never paid nor received payment for access to private except if you're a camper who stays in campgrounds. If you've been involved in paying for access I would like to hear your experiences and thoughts.

These are some of the pros I can think of off hand.

Landowner can make additional income of the property
Open up more private land for recreational users
Average landowner might be more inclined to better manage the property in terms of wildlife

The cons
Not all could afford the access fee
Potentially could lead to more trespassing violations

Please fill free to add if you are a landowner or not.

I am not a landowner ,but recently was seriously considering buying a property for hunting due to the amount of people hunting in the crown land .
Fortunately, I have some very good friends, who own the land and me and my friends are welcomed to hunt there.
Those properties are 4-9 hours away from my house and I don't mind driving so much to get a quality hunt , not a gang Shaw one can usually see around big city on the opening day.
As to the paid access to the land ,if they will do it here in Alberta, it would be not any different then Europe or US or another places in the world were hunting is popular.
So, definitely against the money to be involved for hunting to be paid on a private land.

[jungleboy]

Not a land owner ,I used to hunt farm land almost exclusively but quit several years ago partly due to the hostile attitudes mostly on this forum. I never really had any problems getting permission but the thought of running into the aggressive internet hero types that seem to spend most of their waking hours looking for a possible trespasser either on their land or some land they imagine they have exclusive rights to just put me off of the whole thing . I hunt crown land only and am fine with that .
That being said, many hunt private land and good for them . I think paid access will make a sport that is already suffering ,even more of an elitists game .
Those who can afford it will lock up as much land as possible and keep more and more common hunters out. It will not kill the sport it will just make it more difficult for the average hunter . Think England ,and US with large game ranches for the well heeled . It's a slippery slope but I can see it coming.

Merica!!

[ResidentSpokesman]

Originally Posted by jungleboy

Not a land owner ,I used to hunt farm land almost exclusively but quit several years ago partly due to the hostile attitudes mostly on this forum. I never really had any problems getting permission but the thought of running into the aggressive internet hero types that seem to spend most of their waking hours looking for a possible trespasser either on their land or some land they imagine they have exclusive rights to just put me off of the whole thing . I hunt crown land only and am fine with that .
That being said, many hunt private land and good for them . I think paid access will make a sport that is already suffering ,even more of an elitists game .
Those who can afford it will lock up as much land as possible and keep more and more common hunters out. It will not kill the sport it will just make it more difficult for the average hunter . Think England ,and US with large game ranches for the well heeled . It's a slippery slope but I can see it coming.

Merica!!

I don’t think I could agree more with you if my life depended on it.

[pikergolf]

Paid access will be the end of hunting. Many will just say the heck with it and quit. The anti's will have little opposition except they will be facing a lot of money. If it comes to that I wouldn't lift a finger to help those that destroyed my heritage. Good luck to the douche nozzles.

[Norwest Alta]

Douche nozzle? Well ain't that respectful and open minded.

[deadeye]

In Alberta wildlife does not belong to the landowner to do with as he pleases, it belongs to all Albertans, a fact lost on many landowners.
As already stated, once the right to hunt has a dollar value put on it, it becomes a rich mans game and generally the only ones in favour will be the landowner that see $$$ and rich "hunters". Most of those that appreciate the hunt and the right to hunt the most, will be shut out.
We don't need European or Texas style hunting here.

[Norwest Alta]

Those that are saying it'll mean the end of hunting please elaborate on how and why. I'm trying to understand.

[Dewey Cox]

Forbidding compensation for land access is immoral.
Hunt for free on crown land.

[dfrobert]

Don’t kid ourselves. The paid access is already happening out there and it stinks. Paid access has no benefits in my eyes.

[Dewey Cox]

Originally Posted by dfrobert

Don’t kid ourselves. The paid access is already happening out there and it stinks. Paid access has no benefits in my eyes.

Yet everyone still finds a place to hunt.

[trophybook]

Hunting is a privilege not a right. Same as driving. I'm all for paid access. When you pay for something you usually have more respect for it

[ResidentSpokesman]

It does happen right now. And likely more than most know. But at least right now it CAN be stopped when it’s discovered.

[RZR]

Originally Posted by Norwest Alta

Those that are saying it'll mean the end of hunting please elaborate on how and why. I'm trying to understand.

Could you afford a $1000 a day to hunt private land?

[pikergolf]

Originally Posted by Norwest Alta

Those that are saying it'll mean the end of hunting please elaborate on how and why. I'm trying to understand.

Because people will quit, I enjoy hunting but being on a fixed income I find gas, licenses, and ammo hard to justify, no way I would pay access fees on top of it. I try and spread a few bottles of wine around to the landowners who's land I use, but would not spend more.

What the pro paid hunting crowd is really about is limiting access to a few well healed people. If you favor it, just look at hunting in Europe. It is not for common people.

Hunting is a heritage of commoners, paid hunting will kill it. Thankfully I'm at or near the end for my hunting days. It saddens me to see what it has become, and where it is heading.

[shooter12]

Originally Posted by Norwest Alta

Those that are saying it'll mean the end of hunting please elaborate on how and why. I'm trying to understand.

Nobody is actually saying it will mean the end of the hunting, only you...
But it will be very different hunting for sure , not when you pay around $50.00
per tag and can go anywhere you want but say couple K for permission to shoot this deer or elk on a private property.
Then this activity will be only for very limited amount of people.
Not everyone can afford to pay it.

[SageValleyOutdoors]

I think i May be able to offer another perspective - that of the outfitter.
We’re not all sleazeballs, though I can think of several who have absolutely destroyed the image of what we do. We don’t all make a ton of cash on our hunts - i do it for love of the hunt and the amazing friends I’ve made and hunt with. About 90% of the land i hunt is private, 10% crown.
I don’t pay to hunt - never have. I’ve been asked by landowners for money, and always refused - there’s so much land out there, that risking charges isn’t worth it. I’ve known of one previously mentioned sleazeball who WAS convicted of offering bribes for permission, and the penalty for such is astronomical. It simply isn’t worth the risk to me.
I’ve had this same discussion with many American clients - they’re shocked that the landowners don’t make any money from our hunts. Most of them have said that if it was an option to pay an extra five hundred or thousand bucks for a hunt to lock up some access, they would do it in a heartbeat.
This leads me to believe that it would be a far reaching problem if it were made legal here in Alberta. I would hate for locals to lose out on opportunity to hunt because a select few can afford to pay for access... we’re already a much-hated group, and paid access would DEFINITELY cut down on resident opportunity.

Now, having said this - i definitely believe there should be a way for landowners to make some money off their lands when it comes to hunting. The best thing I’ve heard of is adding an amount to the cost of a deer license - when someone tags an animal, he/she gives a portion of the tag or license to the landowner, which can he/she can then redeem for cash. The amount added to each license shouldn’t be much - maybe $50? $25? I don’t know, let the higher ups decide that sort of thing, but i think it would do well for giving landowners options.
If they want to make decent money - open up their property to many people. Let the meat hunters come out, and he can cash in... i don’t imagine this sort of thing would last long - after a few years he wouldn’t have animals on his place, but that would be his decision.
If he wants to manage it further, maybe he only allows a few people on per year. Who knows? At least it’s an option

[Dewey Cox]

Originally Posted by pikergolf

I try and spread a few bottles of wine around to the landowners who's land I use, but would not spend more.

That’s against the law.
You are ruining hunting for people who can’t afford to give away a bottle of wine.

[MooseRiverTrapper]

There will always be crown land. Looking forward to paid hunting in Alberta.

[ResidentSpokesman]

Originally Posted by SageValleyOutdoors

I don’t know, let the higher ups decide that sort of thing

That in itself is terrifying

[Morbius131]

Paid access establishes classes within the hunting community which is the complete opposite direction we have to go if we intend to perserve our sport and hunting heritage! I am strongly opposed to paid access.

Morb

[cheemo]

Originally Posted by deadeye

In Alberta wildlife does not belong to the landowner to do with as he pleases, it belongs to all Albertans, a fact lost on many landowners.
As already stated, once the right to hunt has a dollar value put on it, it becomes a rich mans game and generally the only ones in favour will be the landowner that see $$$ and rich "hunters". Most of those that appreciate the hunt and the right to hunt the most, will be shut out.
We don't need European or Texas style hunting here.

As a landowner myself, of course I realize I don't own the wildlife that live on my land. Do I not have the right to choose who can and who can't hunt on my land? For the first time in over 75 years of our family owning this land we will be posting it up prior to start of 2018 season. We've had an alarming increase of tresspassers over the last 5-10 years. The roads in my area were like Jasper ave during hunting season and not one soul stopped in to ask for permission, even had to chase couple trucks off our land.

We have a neighbor who doesn't hunt but just doesn't agree with hunting period. As a hunter I have to respect his wishes(even though he's got trophy bucks and Bulls on his property). Something that seems to be lost among so many Albertans is that respect. Where did it go?

As for paid access, My feelings are mixed. I can see pros and cons. Probably just a matter of time as it was when the Americans wanted to hunt our game and were willing to pay.

[Norwest Alta]

One of the things that I have a hard time wrapping my head around is that I can charge for someone to park their motor home and do a little camping. Possibly even fish in my dugout. Many of you already do pay for this or possibly would pay for it but the minute someone throws in the hunting word and paying for access to my property all hell breaks loose.

[Norwest Alta]

Originally Posted by Morbius131

Paid access establishes classes within the hunting community which is the complete opposite direction we have to go if we intend to perserve our sport and hunting heritage! I am strongly opposed to paid access.

Morb

I can understand this but the classes are already there no matter how you look at it.

[catnthehat]

leasing a spot on someone's land simply to park an RV is one thing.
leasing a spot on someone's land with the intent of that person then letting them hunt big game on that land is another.
Cat

[SLH]

Originally Posted by Norwest Alta

Those that are saying it'll mean the end of hunting please elaborate on how and why. I'm trying to understand.

Think Switzerland, France, England, Texas, Utah.

To be competitive Montana had to implement the Block Management Program which is essentially the state becoming an outfitter to counter the land being locked up by landowners and otfitters cashing in.

No ones loosing rights by keeping cash out of access to the public trust.

[ResidentSpokesman]

Originally Posted by Norwest Alta

One of the things that I have a hard time wrapping my head around is that I can charge for someone to park their motor home and do a little camping. Possibly even fish in my dugout. Many of you already do pay for this or possibly would pay for it but the minute someone throws in the hunting word and paying for access to my property all hell breaks loose.

Not sure if you can legally charge for access to fish. I’ve never encountered that. Off to Google I go...

[Morbius131]

Originally Posted by Norwest Alta

I can understand this but the classes are already there no matter how you look at it.

This is true but allowing paid access will compound the problem.

Morb

[SLH]

Originally Posted by Norwest Alta

One of the things that I have a hard time wrapping my head around is that I can charge for someone to park their motor home and do a little camping. Possibly even fish in my dugout. Many of you already do pay for this or possibly would pay for it but the minute someone throws in the hunting word and paying for access to my property all hell breaks loose.

I've asked before how in that situation do you protect my right to the public trust?