The Future of Sheep in Alberta

[JustinC]

Originally Posted by sheephunter

Darcy, I have never in my life put down another hunter's accomplishment on this board and never will so please don't say that I have. It shows a total lack of class.

How did I???
Was making a point.not puting him down.

[sheepguide]

Originally Posted by JustinC

dont you have a book to right or something.How do you know what I have seen? I never put down anybody.He seems to know everything and we all know nothing.

You will get used to it!! If it wasnt said by certain Bio's, TJ or 209 then it has no backing.

[Rockymtnx]

Originally Posted by sheepguide

And when you see rams like the one Kim killed this past fall you cant be anything but envious.

Oh yeah I how could I forget that one. So thats three ladies I know of that have taken impressive rams from 438. I'm sure they aren't the only three.

[bowhuntercam]

Sheep guides are some of the classiest, most honest and admirable people I have ever met. It seems sheepguide, you are not cut from the same cloth. Your comments on this last page show you are one of those folks who is in it for the wrong reasons.

[Tonto]

Originally Posted by sheephunter

Hagar, obviously I don't think that but I also know that your suggested 10 minite course isn't going to tech them everything there is to know about sheep and sheep conservation either. These courses come with a cost and the end needs to justify the means. Without regulation to back up what is taught in the course, I can't see it helping. Hunters are already faced with too many regulations. I can't see adding another regulation as being a good thing when it's likely to accomplish nothing but make it more difficult for hunters to go hunting.

Any education is a good thing. Hunters will never learn everything about any animal or conservation in their lifetime. (some may think they know it all, already)
But, a 1 hour course for all new sheephunter's will most likely save a lot of short sheep left on the mountain. That's probably enough to justify.

Originally Posted by Rockymtnx

Oh yeah I how could I forget that one. So thats three ladies I know of that have taken impressive rams from 438. I'm sure they aren't the only three.

You met another one at my b-day party the other day Dan....then of course the two in 2009 and that wonderful 14-year old girl. That's why I don't apply and Vanessa does...

[sheepguide]

Originally Posted by sheephunter

Justin, if you are talking about the 438 hunt, you don't need to sit on a line waiting. You can actually get out and hunt away from the mine. On the hunt I was along on, the ram was way outside the mine and had been for several days. The hunt is what it is but it's far from an easy hunt where you sit waiting for sheep to cross a line. Sure some do that but I know lots that haven't. It's whatever you want to make it.

TJ 95% or better of the rams are waited to cross out of the mine. If im correct the hunt that you were on with 209 you had to settle for a lesser ram you saw previous that had crossed as the "RIGHT" ram never crossed that magical line. You guys hunted it exactly the same as every hunter that hunts up there does.

[Vindalbakken]

Come on you guys. You don't have enough people agreeing with you so you start sniping. Get over it. Argue your points on their merits.

SG, I am waiting for your erudite elucidation.

[JustinC]

Originally Posted by sheephunter

Justin, if you are talking about the 438 hunt, you don't need to sit on a line waiting. You can actually get out and hunt away from the mine. On the hunt I was along on, the ram was way outside the mine and had been for several days. The hunt is what it is but it's far from an easy hunt where you sit waiting for sheep to cross a line. Sure some do that but I know lots that haven't. It's whatever you want to make it.

I know I would not just sit there. I would go nuts.I dont like this type of hunting(or lack of). I like the hunt not just the kill.

[Rockymtnx]

Originally Posted by sheephunter

You met another one at my b-day party the other day Dan....then of course the two in 2009 and that wonderful 14-year old girl. That's why I don't apply and Vanessa does...

I think if we ban the ladies from applying in the 438 draw. It will increase the number of large rams that male hunters harvest in Alberta each year!

[Vindalbakken]

Originally Posted by Tonto

But, a 1 hour course for all new sheephunter's will most likely save a lot of short sheep left on the mountain. That's probably enough to justify.

Is it? How many "short sheep" are left on the mountains? I would never agree to subject the entire population of resident hunters to the added burden of a "course" on sheep without solid information on the benefit analysis.

Still waiting for the benefit analysis on all the other restrictive ideas to "help sheep hunting".

Originally Posted by sheepguide

TJ 95% or better of the rams are waited to cross out of the mine. If im correct the hunt that you were on with 209 you had to settle for a lesser ram you saw previous that had crossed as the "RIGHT" ram never crossed that magical line. You guys hunted it exactly the same as every hunter that hunts up there does.

Nope, it didn't happen anything like that. 209 spotted a beautiful 13 year old ram way outside the mine and it took a couple days to get on him. He never touched foot on the mine from what I saw and he certainly wasn't a lesser ram. From the second 209 saw him, he knew that was the ram he wanted.

Thanks for telling us how we hunted though and calling 209's ram a lesser trophy...I was there but I guess your version could be closer to what happened

[sheepguide]

Originally Posted by bowhuntercam

Sheep guides are some of the classiest, most honest and admirable people I have ever met. It seems sheepguide, you are not cut from the same cloth. Your comments on this last page show you are one of those folks who is in it for the wrong reasons.

Thats your opinion and your entitled to beleive what you wish. And you have no idea why im in it. I give up a $650 a day job to go spend 60-70 days in the mountains guiding to make $200 a day. You have to love something alot to commit this kind of loss to do it. Ive spent the last 17 years since I shot my second ram hunting every spare day just to be out there. I dont need to shoot a sheep to justify being in the mountains. I love being out there. And if you dont beleive me my wife is on this forum and im sure would be more than happy to tell you how old it gets listening to me talk about sheep and mountains in the off season till I can get back out there. I spend a couple days every week im off in the off season out there. So if this all means that im into the guiding and the sheep hunting for the wrong reasons then I guess I am.
SG

[Tonto]

Originally Posted by Vindalbakken

Is it? How many "short sheep" are left on the mountains? I would never agree to subject the entire population of resident hunters to the added burden of a "course" on sheep without solid information on the benefit analysis.

Still waiting for the benefit analysis on all the other restrictive ideas to "help sheep hunting".

Can't answer your question on how many, sorry. But one would be too many.
I don't think I ever said the entire resident hunter population. Why would someone who only hunts whitetails have to take a course on sheep hunting.
I believe I said any first time sheephunters. Do you really need a benefit analysis to see that this may help??

[sheepguide]

Originally Posted by sheephunter

Thanks for telling us how we hunted though and calling 209's ram a lesser trophy

I never called it a lesser trophy just lesser than average in size as im sure if you figured the numbers the average of cadomin rams killed will exceed 180"

And on one of his hunts he hunted the hot rocks and slaughter ridge for a few days did he not?

[bowhuntercam]

Sheepguide, I am not questing your passion and love for the outdoors, sheep and the mountains. I am simply upset at how you demean others sheep hunting accomplishments. Why you or anybody hunt sheep is not relevant or constructive to the underling issue, the future of sheep hunting in Alberta.

I never called it a lesser trophy just lesser than average in size as im sure if you figured the numbers the average of cadomin rams killed will exceed 180"

I highly doubt that is the average score but even so, I thought it was all about the age and not the score. A 13 year old ram would hardly seem to be a lesser anything to me. I certainly wouldn't say anything to belittle his accomplishment.

[Vindalbakken]

Originally Posted by Tonto

Can't answer your question on how many, sorry. But one would be too many.
I don't think I ever said the entire resident hunter population. Why would someone who only hunts whitetails have to take a course on sheep hunting.
I believe I said any first time sheephunters. Do you really need a benefit analysis to see that this may help??

Yes, I do. Because if there is one sheep left on the mountain you are a dreamer believing that any amount of a course will prevent everyone from making the mistake. So, if there is one mistake made we are expending far too much time, money and inconvenience to not solve a problem. If indeed there is an epidemic of short sheep left on the mountainsides the issue does need to be addressed.

We do not need ever restrictive controls placed on who, when and where if there is not a demonstrable need and reasonable assurance of rectification. Look where "one is too many" and "Do you really need a benefit analysis to see that this may help." got us with the gun registry.

[sheepguide]

Originally Posted by sheephunter

I highly doubt that is the average score but even so, I thought it was all about the age and not the score. A 13 year old ram would hardly seem to be a lesser anything to me. I certainly wouldn't say anything to belittle his accomplishment.

was trying to put it terms you could maybe grasp as you you are about score. There are enough old rams to go around for those that want to hunt for them in general zones as you have stated so why did he have to go there to kill one?

And you dont think the draw average would be over 180" how many 180-200" rams have been shot compared to less than 180" gimme a break. You really do shine sometimes

[JustinC]

Ok he shot a nice ram or two. Congrats. But how is it he is a pro? How are you or anybody on this thread a pro?

[Vindalbakken]

Originally Posted by sheepguide

so why did he have to go there to kill one?

Because he got drawn?

- erudite elucidation.

[sheepguide]

Originally Posted by Vindalbakken

Because he got drawn?

Ya for the simple fact that you can harvest a bigger older more mature ram here because it is possible to have an older bigger more mature huntable group of rams that can survive past 5 1/2.

Originally Posted by JustinC

Ok he shot a nice ram or two. Congrats. But how is it he is a pro? How are you or anybody on this thread a pro?

Don't think anyone claimed to be...well maybe one guy

I don't think you need to be an expert to see that coming up with new, more restrictive regulations when no problem has been identified is fraught with folly. Identify the problem first and then come up with creative solutions to solve it. Often the best solutions don't require more restrictive regulations. We are regulated to death already.....

[Tonto]

Originally Posted by Vindalbakken

Yes, I do. Because if there is one sheep left on the mountain you are a dreamer believing that any amount of a course will prevent everyone from making the mistake. So, if there is one mistake made we are expending far too much time, money and inconvenience to not solve a problem. If indeed there is an epidemic of short sheep left on the mountainsides the issue does need to be addressed.

We do not need ever restrictive controls placed on who, when and where if there is not a demonstrable need and reasonable assurance of rectification. Look where "one is too many" and "Do you really need a benefit analysis to see that this may help." got us with the gun registry.

Sorry, I didn't know we had to wait until there was an epidemic.
Didn't say a course would stop everyone from making a mistake, but it would educate all of them so the mistakes would lessen.
If a 1 hour course for a first time hunter is too much of a burden, maybe sheep hunting isn't quite what they should be doing.

[sheepguide]

Originally Posted by Vindalbakken

Yes, I do. Because if there is one sheep left on the mountain you are a dreamer believing that any amount of a course will prevent everyone from making the mistake. So, if there is one mistake made we are expending far too much time, money and inconvenience to not solve a problem. If indeed there is an epidemic of short sheep left on the mountainsides the issue does need to be addressed.

We do not need ever restrictive controls placed on who, when and where if there is not a demonstrable need and reasonable assurance of rectification. Look where "one is too many" and "Do you really need a benefit analysis to see that this may help." got us with the gun registry.

Comparing the gun registry to trying to help educate hunters is just ******ed.
Why are you guys bucking this education thing so hard? We get the fact that you already know all that is needed to know. Some one taught you the ins and outs on judging and other stuff. Some guys dont have the luxery of having a mentor so they go out by trial and error and accidents happen. If there was something to help educate guys a little more maybe this would happen less. No one is saying its an epidemic but saving a couple short sheep and saving some hard working hunter some hardship to me is an un arguable positive option!

Originally Posted by sheepguide

Ya for the simple fact that you can harvest a bigger older more mature ram here because it is possible to have an older bigger more mature huntable group of rams that can survive past 5 1/2.

That's what a limited-entry draw and and sanctuary filled with an artificially high protein source of feed will do. You aren't going to duplicate that anywhere in the province....no matter what you do. If you really are so bent on having more older rams.....you better support additional draws in the province. It ain't going to happen otherwise.

Why are you guys bucking this education thing so hard?

It's yet another regulation that will accomplish nothing and waste precious F&W dollars or require hunters to pony up needless fees to take the course. Don't we have enough regulations and enough wasteful fees already?

[Jamie]

SG.. Whats with all the nattering.. You sound like a old women.

I have read most posts you have made, and though they seem somewhat knowledgeable, your manner in speaking and the constant low brow harping on SH is getting real old.
Though you may think your being Witty by bring up a certain person from SH past life it gets old. These juvenile attempts are at best silly and at worst disgusting.
Your constant twisting of words makes a "Non" sheep hunter want to think you are full of Horse shyt.

Why 209 would want to hunt the mine is his Biz. And yes the comments made about his sheep were uncalled for. He hunted hard and came home with a animal. I don't see what the big deal is. Just because you chose to hike into god knows where does not make 209 any less of a hunter. I am sure though out his many days he has seen as much hidden land as you.


You come across as a "MY WAY OR THE HIGHWAY" Kinda guy.
Personally I would like you to just shut the hell up

You mentioned that SH had no idea why people posted.. Well with the amount of time you spend TRYING to disprove SH I am beginning to think you are one of those guys who will start shooting his mouth off in camp or whatever street corner you are standing on, telling everyone who will listen just how you managed to put a Outdoor writer in his place. I am sure there is a bit more than a little embellishment with each passing story. I would guess by now that you don't even mention you do it from sanctuary of your computer

Sorry SG It's getting really old.

Stop with the crying and start sharing the info with out you getting so personally involved.

Jamie

[sheepguide]

Originally Posted by sheephunter

That's what a limited-entry draw and and sanctuary filled with an artificially high protein source of feed will do. You aren't going to duplicate that anywhere in the province....no matter what you do. If you really are so bent on having more older rams.....you better support additional draws in the province. It ain't going to happen otherwise.

Im for more draws but also would like to see improvment to the general areas. But thinking this way is wrong and going by you guys, thinking that its possible to improve on things without hurting oppertunity a whole bunch is just wrong. I agree that your not gunna duplicate the mines but ive seen valleys inside the park with a hundred rams in them and alot of old rams that are no where near the mines so I know it is possible to improve on what we have! Not duplicate anythin but possibly improve it!

[sheepguide]

Originally Posted by Jamie

SG.. Whats with all the nattering.. You sound like a old women.

I have read most posts you have made, and though they seem somewhat knowledgeable, your manner in speaking and the constant low brow harping on SH is getting real old.
Though you may think your being Witty by bring up a certain person from SH past life it gets old. These juvenile attempts are at best silly and at worst disgusting.
Your constant twisting of words makes a "Non" sheep hunter want to think you are full of Horse shyt.

Why 209 would want to hunt the mine is his Biz. And yes the comments made about his sheep were uncalled for. He hunted hard and came home with a animal. I don't see what the big deal is. Just because you chose to hike into god knows where does not make 209 any less of a hunter. I am sure though out his many days he has seen as much hidden land as you.


You come across as a "MY WAY OR THE HIGHWAY" Kinda guy.
Personally I would like you to just shut the hell up

You mentioned that SH had no idea why people posted.. Well with the amount of time you spend TRYING to disprove SH I am beginning to think you are one of those guys who will start shooting his mouth off in camp or whatever street corner you are standing on, telling everyone who will listen just how you managed to put a Outdoor writer in his place. I am sure there is a bit more than a little embellishment with each passing story. I would guess by now that you don't even mention you do it from sanctuary of your computer

Sorry SG It's getting really old.

Stop with the crying and start sharing the info with out you getting so personally involved.

Jamie

Oh thank you Jamie ill try and behave on your behalf!
I say what I want, when I want, how I want and if you dont like it thats perfectly fine, if the mods dont like it ill be gone. Im not changing the way I am because you arent happy with my way of speaking or if I try and disproove someone. If you are gunna stop every guy that does this on this forum Rob wont be to pleased as it will be over.
Thanks for your concern but im pretty good at taking care of myself.
SG