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Old 11-07-2017, 08:09 AM
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Groundhogger Groundhogger is offline
 
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Default 17 Hornet Reloading~it's own thread!

Hey guys~while I haven't decided (fully) whether or not I will be hand loading something so small...I would love to hear from people who DO hand load for it and even better, what loads shoot best from their guns. If you own a CZ 527 Varmint~I'm ESPECIALLY keen on hearing from you...but all are welcome.

I've hand loaded for my .223, .204R, and .243 Win and in all cases...my approach was more or less the same. CCI BR4 or BR2 (.243) primers, a little Google work to confirm best powder choices for a given caliber, visit the Hodgedon Reloading data site, etc. I could get .223 and .243 shooting GREAT with Varget, .204R took a little more work. Anyhow, I've heard/read about that "lil gun" powder for Hornets and the use of Remington Primers (why?)...and am wondering if anyone can shed some light on their successes loading 17 Hornet. Any tips, pet loads, target photos, favorite dies (and why) it would be greatly appreciated. I'll be sure to post myself once I've gotten into it, and had some time to get to a range. The process has been slow, but I have the rifle, 1 spare mag, scope, 2 boxes of factory ammo (15gr and 20 gr.)

"en route"~more 20gr. V-Max factory ammo, 25gr HP factory ammo,Warne scope rings, and a nice little heap of once-fired Hornady brass. (saw an opportunity)

Undecided/not purchased~dies, bullets, shell holders for RCBS press and RCBS priming tool.

Powder on hand~Varget, Reloader 10X (Alliant), H4198, H322, H4350...but a willingness to buy/try others

Look forward to hearing from the 17 Hornet fans!
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Old 11-07-2017, 08:34 AM
Jeron Kahyar Jeron Kahyar is offline
 
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Ever since I saw the .17 Hornet show up I have been intrigued. Looks like a great varmiting/practice round.

Reloading likely can be done at a very reasonable price for it. Knowing my fat fingers and experience reloading the .204 Ruger, I may need tweezers to hold that tiny bullet. I have tried to pinch my fingers in the seating die one to many times.

I understand many have had good success with Hodgons Lil'Gun. Looks like the Hodgons CFE BLK would be worth looking into as well.
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Old 11-07-2017, 09:14 AM
elkhunter11 elkhunter11 is online now
 
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I didn't want to wait for neck bushing dies, so I went with Redding FL dies, and I bump the shoulder just far enough to easily chamber a round. My CZ527 shot very well with all loads, perhaps slightly better with slightly reduced load of N-120, around 3400fps vs almost 3700fps with Lil Gun. My Cooper likes Lil Gun at 3680fps, but I do intend to try CFE BLK next spring. I have had no issues with trying to load the small bullets, no tweezers required. Remington #6-1/2 primers that worked so well in my 22 Hornet, allow blow by the primer in the 17 hornet, so I settled on Remington 7-1/2 primers. In all cases, seating at .010" from the lands or even slightly less produced the best accuracy in my rifles. I only have three or four loadings on my cases, so I can't comment on case life at this point. Be careful when purchasing cases, as the early cases had major issues with quality control, especially concerning the primer pocket. The later cases don't have these issues, but there may still be some early cases floating around . When using the Hodgdons online data for Lil Gun, be careful, some people are seeing pressure signs at the starting load of 9.6gr. I am seeing more velocity at my load of 9.5gr than the online data lists for 10gr.
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Last edited by elkhunter11; 11-07-2017 at 09:23 AM.
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Old 11-07-2017, 09:44 AM
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Groundhogger Groundhogger is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elkhunter11 View Post
I didn't want to wait for neck bushing dies, so I went with Redding FL dies, and I bump the shoulder just far enough to easily chamber a round. My CZ527 shot very well with all loads, perhaps slightly better with slightly reduced load of N-120, around 3400fps vs almost 3700fps with Lil Gun. My Cooper likes Lil Gun at 3680fps, but I do intend to try CFE BLK next spring. I have had no issues with trying to load the small bullets, no tweezers required. Remington #6-1/2 primers that worked so well in my 22 Hornet, allow blow by the primer in the 17 hornet, so I settled on Remington 7-1/2 primers. In all cases, seating at .010" from the lands or even slightly less produced the best accuracy in my rifles. I only have three or four loadings on my cases, so I can't comment on case life at this point. Be careful when purchasing cases, as the early cases had major issues with quality control, especially concerning the primer pocket. The later cases don't have these issues, but there may still be some early cases floating around . When using the Hodgdons online data for Lil Gun, be careful, some people are seeing pressure signs at the starting load of 9.6gr. I am seeing more velocity at my load of 9.5gr than the online data lists for 10gr.
Well~didn't catch that detail soon enough but the brass is on it's way. Hopefully, there will be no issues with it. Won't be too expensive a mistake if it's a problem.

So these numbered Remington primers~what's the difference between 6-1/2 and 7-1/2 primers? You've settled on 7-1/2?
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Old 11-07-2017, 10:01 AM
PartTimeHunter PartTimeHunter is online now
 
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There is a warning on the 6 1/2's stating not to use in high intensity cartridges such as 17 Rem, 222, Rem, 223 Rem. I remember reading somewhere, but can't find it now, that the 6 1/2's should only be used on the 218 Bee (if I remember correct).

I do know that when I started loading for my 20 Extreme I had problems with the primers showing pressure signs at beginning loads. Switched to 7 1/2's and was able to load hotter loads. I don't run max pressure loads but couldn't get to the accurate ones with the 6 1/2's. So now I have about 1800 6 1/2 primers sitting in the back corner - any one interested?
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Old 11-07-2017, 10:03 AM
amosfella amosfella is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Groundhogger View Post
Well~didn't catch that detail soon enough but the brass is on it's way. Hopefully, there will be no issues with it. Won't be too expensive a mistake if it's a problem.

So these numbered Remington primers~what's the difference between 6-1/2 and 7-1/2 primers? You've settled on 7-1/2?
6.5 are standard small rifle, 7.5 are magnum small rifle.
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Old 11-07-2017, 12:16 PM
elkhunter11 elkhunter11 is online now
 
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Originally Posted by amosfella View Post
6.5 are standard small rifle, 7.5 are magnum small rifle.
Not quite, the 7-1/2 are standard small rifle primers, the 6-1/2 are special primers for the very small capacity/lower pressure cartridges like the 22 hornet. The 6-1/2 primers are not recommended for the standard pressure cartridges like the 223rem.
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Last edited by elkhunter11; 11-07-2017 at 12:22 PM.
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Old 11-07-2017, 02:09 PM
lclund1946 lclund1946 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amosfella View Post
6.5 are standard small rifle, 7.5 are magnum small rifle.
Rem 6 1/2 Small Rifle Primers written on the package and similar to CCI 400 but may take slightly less pressure. Rem 7 1/2 Small Rife Bench Rest on the package and very similar to Federal Small Rifle 205 Gold Medal Match and CCI BR4 Small Rifle Match Primers. Although the Rem 7 1/2 will take a bit more pressure, before showing pressure signs, than the 205GMM they take a bit less pressure than the CCI BR4. Any of these will work fine in the 17 Hornet just be aware that they will take more pressure than the case will handle and any cratering or primer flow of the primers, in a fire formed case, is likely too hot for this 50,000 PSI rated case. Use data from the Ramshot Manual as some Hornady loads are too hot with AA1680 and try AA 2200 if you can get it. (see Link) http://www.ramshot.com/load-data/. Ramshot use Winchester Small Rifle Primers (WSR) in their Data.

Hodgdon have pressure data for Lil Gun at a Max 10.0 grains but I would avoid using it as it can be quite volatile and cases of detonation have been reported. However their CFE BLK, or blackout powder shows great promise for this cartridge and is what I would be looking for. Hodgdon use Federal 205M primers in their loads.

I did not find a problem with the Early Brass but the early Factory ammo was loaded too hot, with a temperature sensitive powder, and I had a primer blow. I also believe that this was the problem with reloading Factory 1X fired brass as the primer pockets were already loose. However I did not reload these cases and some reported shallow primer pockets which I did not experience. One blown primer was enough with my Savage 25 as it blew the extractor out of the bolt so I sold it along with likely the first set of Hornady dies to hit Canada as a friend brought them up from the States before they were readily available in Canada. I found these dies to be a perfect fit as they sized brass to within 0.001", of a fire formed brass at the neck, shoulder and base datum and HS as well. Got an opportunity to buy a CZ 527 American along with a set of Redding FL dies and a bunch of fired brass and ammo. Found the Reloaded brass to have about 0.0012- 0.0015" excess HS although that could have been because the new brass had not fireformed?? At any rate the Redding Dies overworked the brass at the shoulder and base, compared to the Hornady dies so I recommending buying Hornady.

I had an opportunity to compare some brass from some of the "New" Factory ammo and found that it held nearly a grain less than the "Old" brass and primers seated so hard that they were flattened a bit from my hand held primer. The new factory rounds were running much less pressure/velociyty as well. Please be aware of this and load accordingly and start low with a pressure ladder. I have no further interest in this cartridge although it performs well with the new factory ammo and perhaps even better with handloads?? Just be careful as pressures can really jump up fast in this small cartridge.

Last edited by lclund1946; 11-07-2017 at 02:15 PM.
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Old 11-07-2017, 06:21 PM
Jeron Kahyar Jeron Kahyar is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Groundhogger View Post
So these numbered Remington primers~what's the difference between 6-1/2 and 7-1/2 primers? You've settled on 7-1/2?
This does a good explanation/comparison on primers:

http://www.jamescalhoon.com/primers_and_pressure.php
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Old 11-08-2017, 12:15 PM
lclund1946 lclund1946 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeron Kahyar View Post
This does a good explanation/comparison on primers:

http://www.jamescalhoon.com/primers_and_pressure.php
The best thing I ever did was buy a CZ 527 Kevlar, in 19 Badger, from Jim. The next best thing I did was learn as much as I could from this man via this and other articles, talking to him on the phone and picking up components in person at his shop. It was what eventually led to me developing my own wildcat cartridges and the methods I use to Develop Good Safe Loads for them. These methods work well Saami cartridges as well.

Just remember that the 17 Hornet case was designed to run at 50,000 PSI Max which is why the small rifle primers, designed for 40,000PSI, come up short and peirce. More important is to remember that the ones designed for 55,000 PSI cases, especially the CCI 450 Magnum, will not show pressure signs until well past the pressure that the 17 H case will tolerate. That is also why it is possible to determine when pressures exceed the 57,000 PSI that 223cases were designed for. Get a micrometer, measure the base of a new case, and make certain that that measurement falls somewhere in between Saami Max Cartridge base diameter (0.2982") and where the Hornady FL die sizes the base (0.2973" with the die I had) without bumping the shoulder. You will have no pressure problems and the brass will last a long time.
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Old 11-07-2017, 10:12 AM
amosfella amosfella is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Groundhogger View Post
Hey guys~while I haven't decided (fully) whether or not I will be hand loading something so small...I would love to hear from people who DO hand load for it and even better, what loads shoot best from their guns. If you own a CZ 527 Varmint~I'm ESPECIALLY keen on hearing from you...but all are welcome.

I've hand loaded for my .223, .204R, and .243 Win and in all cases...my approach was more or less the same. CCI BR4 or BR2 (.243) primers, a little Google work to confirm best powder choices for a given caliber, visit the Hodgedon Reloading data site, etc. I could get .223 and .243 shooting GREAT with Varget, .204R took a little more work. Anyhow, I've heard/read about that "lil gun" powder for Hornets and the use of Remington Primers (why?)...and am wondering if anyone can shed some light on their successes loading 17 Hornet. Any tips, pet loads, target photos, favorite dies (and why) it would be greatly appreciated. I'll be sure to post myself once I've gotten into it, and had some time to get to a range. The process has been slow, but I have the rifle, 1 spare mag, scope, 2 boxes of factory ammo (15gr and 20 gr.)

"en route"~more 20gr. V-Max factory ammo, 25gr HP factory ammo,Warne scope rings, and a nice little heap of once-fired Hornady brass. (saw an opportunity)

Undecided/not purchased~dies, bullets, shell holders for RCBS press and RCBS priming tool.

Powder on hand~Varget, Reloader 10X (Alliant), H4198, H322, H4350...but a willingness to buy/try others

Look forward to hearing from the 17 Hornet fans!
Look at H322 and H4198. I use a case full of WC735 under all bullets I bought to try. Works well with a rem 7.5 primer. WC735 is similar in speed to H322 and H4198. (Check the speed of reloader 10, as it may be close and work as well)

In my mind, Lil'gun might be too reactive of a powder to use in that small of a cartridge. I have a bottle of it, but haven't used it.

The Hornady seating die is quite nice. The seater drops out of the die to allow you to get the bullet into it without pinching your fingers.

I haven't used a bushing die on that case, but I was looking for a lee collet die for that cartridge a few years ago.

I'm still shooting out factory ammo that I bought for the cases, as the factory ammo was cheaper to buy than new brass at the time.

I haven't had problems with the primer pockets of the older brass with gold primers.
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Old 11-07-2017, 11:10 AM
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Groundhogger Groundhogger is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amosfella View Post
Look at H322 and H4198. I use a case full of WC735 under all bullets I bought to try. Works well with a rem 7.5 primer. WC735 is similar in speed to H322 and H4198. (Check the speed of reloader 10, as it may be close and work as well)

In my mind, Lil'gun might be too reactive of a powder to use in that small of a cartridge. I have a bottle of it, but haven't used it.

The Hornady seating die is quite nice. The seater drops out of the die to allow you to get the bullet into it without pinching your fingers.

I haven't used a bushing die on that case, but I was looking for a lee collet die for that cartridge a few years ago.

I'm still shooting out factory ammo that I bought for the cases, as the factory ammo was cheaper to buy than new brass at the time.

I haven't had problems with the primer pockets of the older brass with gold primers.
^that's interesting. I'd love to see what that looks like. I'll hit Google later today. (unless you can post a few photos?)

Thanks for the Remington primer info too~noted. Curious as to why that primer is more closely associated with 17 Hornet than CCI seems to be. Odd. However, if it's the one to use..I'll try to track some down. Glad I held-off on the RCBS dies I saw @ Cabela's last night. $99 for the FL size+seating, so not a great price anyway.
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Old 11-07-2017, 12:00 PM
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When you are going after brass make sure you get good stuff. I have a 218 Bee and the SAAMI spec for rim thickness is .065. My winchester brass has a thickness of .055. I was at a gun show a while back and the Starline 32-20 brass had a thickness of .060.

So what I am trying to do is to get it to headspace on the shoulder, not much of a shoulder to work with. Maybe I should just spring for the Starline brass.

If I were you, I would take a caliper with me when shopping for brass.
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