Interesting day on PCR and F&W

[gl2]

Originally Posted by BeeGuy

Interestingly enough, that is a quote from the general discussion forum. It was posted by someone who's father was a retired officer and it was the fathers advise to the son.

I would not teach that to my children until they were about 14 and needed to start understanding how the world actually works and how to protect themselves legally.

You see, the authorities dont view us as sunshine rainbow happy citizens. They view us as potential perps.

We are job security, and they have a quota to fill.

That said, I am not against LEO's or CO's or any other similar occupations. I believe they are a necessity and I appreciate the work they do.

I also believe in my charter rights and freedoms and believe I have the right to the security of my person from unreasonable search and seizure.

I don't poach, and because of this it is my opinion that CO's will never have just cause to search me.

See where I'm coming from?

i probably wouldn't model my parenting skills off of the general section. I can tell you right now, that living in the society we have today a officer that didn't view you as a perp wouldn't last too long. they are paid to up hold the law not give you positive reinforcement for not breaking it. if you don't poach then you have nothing to hide, so why are you so worried? if you appreciate them why make life hard on them? talk with them, help them out and let them be on there way. i don't think co's need any more job security, i have a hunch they got there hands full. where do you get the info co's have a poaching quota? i would like to read that.....i have no idea where you are coming from.

[canadiantdi]

Originally Posted by Bigdad013

I find it funny that people still think a purse is sacred territory..

I personally believe that my personal property is sacred territory. Unless there is some reasonable suspicion that there is something illegal in there, I don't think anyone should have a right to dig through it.

Because I have nothing to hide is absolutely no reason to let anyone search me. Slippery slope..

[canadiantdi]

Originally Posted by chubbdarter

Well im not sure who the Officer was but in any case whoever it is was He or She can search all they want. I have nothing to hide. I asked my wife if She minded, her response was " search away".

I dont mind the time they take as it would give me the chance to carry on a conversation with the Officer about general fisheries issues.

I have never been searched I admit but Ive had the pleasure of meeting many Officers and have never met one that I didnt like. I garantee if and when one does search my truck or house I will still respect Him or Her for the job they do.

If and when someone searches your truck or house?? I am still failing to understand why people are ok with the government searching without a good reason!

Would you be ok with having to ID yourself whenever a police officer asks? How about random house searches?

[BeeGuy]

Originally Posted by gl2

i probably wouldn't model my parenting skills off of the general section. I can tell you right now, that living in the society we have today a officer that didn't view you as a perp wouldn't last too long. they are paid to up hold the law not give you positive reinforcement for not breaking it. if you don't poach then you have nothing to hide, so why are you so worried? if you appreciate them why make life hard on them? talk with them, help them out and let them be on there way. i don't think co's need any more job security, i have a hunch they got there hands full. where do you get the info co's have a poaching quota? i would like to read that.....i have no idea where you are coming from.

ya, sorry wrt the quota, job security and the quote from the general forum, I meant police, not CO's. I've never given a CO a hard time and I am happy to see and talk to them and call them on occasion myself.

I'm not worried, but I am concerned that if we don't protect the freedoms we have, that they will be taken away. Look at the bill Toews is promoting right now. They want warrant-less access to my private communications.

[gl2]

Originally Posted by canadiantdi

If and when someone searches your truck or house?? I am still failing to understand why people are ok with the government searching without a good reason!

Would you be ok with having to ID yourself whenever a police officer asks? How about random house searches?

what if the next time you phoned rap and they told you to take a hike, they are not coming you aren't credible enough? then i bet we see another thread with you on the opposite side of the table......i would id my self if a police officer asked.

[gl2]

on a lighter note a guy at work had his truck impounded on the forestry trunk road for driving like a idiot by a co.......

[canadiantdi]

Originally Posted by horsetrader

I hope the some day certain people need the help of AUTHORITY FIGURES and I hope at that time the the AUTHORITY FIGURES just sit back and watch this person get his just rewards...... maybe a cane hooking his leg and a smack on the head....... I did not address this to anyone specific or quote anyones post as I do not want this to be considered TROLLING. Just my opinion.....

Exercising your right to not be subjected to an unreasonable search shouldn't mean that you don't get the protections of the people sworn to uphold the law.

Police officers, F&W etc, view all people as potential criminals. It's no fault of their own, they are paid to uphold laws and realistically, anyone could be breaking those laws. It is there job to root those people out and hold them accountable. I believe that they should have to follow the law while doing their job, just as us citizens are expected to follow the law as we go about our business (fishing, driving etc).

Again, suggesting that authority figures should not come to the aid of people who are willing to exercise their rights is absurd.

[canadiantdi]

Originally Posted by gl2

what if the next time you phoned rap and they told you to take a hike, they are not coming you aren't credible enough? then i bet we see another thread with you on the opposite side of the table......i would id my self if a police officer asked.

I would expect them to come and commence an initial investigation, but I wouldn't expect someones personal belongings to be ripped apart unless there is sufficient proof that a crime has been committed. Obviously I am of the opinion that a simple eye witness shouldn't be enough. Take the OP's story as an example. Maybe another angler was angry cause he drilled his holes too close or something? I dunno what happened, but obviously they got it wrong and others can get it wrong too.

[canadiantdi]

Originally Posted by SNAPFisher

Beeguy, very well said. That echoes my thoughts exactly.

Guilty until proven innocent is a poor practice. The little "squeal pigeons" that are quick on their speed dail are just cowards in my opinion, confrontation or not. As for quoting the law, great until this happens to you. As the original poster said, no harm done, but, I'm sure it didn't add to the days enjoyment for anyone.

Excellent point. Unfortunately the fisheries act seems to be written that way. Still don't know if chapter 8 of the Charter supersedes the fisheries act. I imagine it does.

[horsetrader]

Originally Posted by canadiantdi

Exercising your right to not be subjected to an unreasonable search shouldn't mean that you don't get the protections of the people sworn to uphold the law.

Police officers, F&W etc, view all people as potential criminals. It's no fault of their own, they are paid to uphold laws and realistically, anyone could be breaking those laws. It is there job to root those people out and hold them accountable. I believe that they should have to follow the law while doing their job, just as us citizens are expected to follow the law as we go about our business (fishing, driving etc).

Again, suggesting that authority figures should not come to the aid of people who are willing to exercise their rights is absurd.

So according to you if someone calls and says they seen a person poaching fish and putting them in their car. The F&W come see the guy on the ice with fishing gear they are to come up to him ask him if he poached fish he says no so investigation over and they drive away .......Good idea.

[BeeGuy]

Before you can exercise your rights, you need to know them first.

Strangely, I cannot recall ever having been taught them in school.

[horsetrader]

Originally Posted by BeeGuy

Before you can exercise your rights, you need to know them first.

Strangely, I cannot recall ever having been taught them in school.

Why should someone have to teach you YOUR rights you should be inclined to learn them on your own. You have to do some things for yourself

[canadiantdi]

Originally Posted by horsetrader

So according to you if someone calls and says they seen a person poaching fish and putting them in their car. The F&W come see the guy on the ice with fishing gear they are to come up to him ask him if he poached fish he says no so investigation over and they drive away .......Good idea.

I believe that more proof should be required than some anonymous phone call. I don't think we should give up our protections from unreasonable search and seizure just to make it easier on F&W.

Hmmm, it's hard to tell if someone is poaching, so lets just search everyone to make sure.. Maybe the police should search every car on the yellowhead too. Hey, if you've got nothing to hide.

[BeeGuy]

Originally Posted by horsetrader

So according to you if someone calls and says they seen a person poaching fish and putting them in their car. The F&W come see the guy on the ice with fishing gear they are to come up to him ask him if he poached fish he says no so investigation over and they drive away .......Good idea.

From everyones favorite source, wikipedia:

Hearsay is information gathered by one person from another person concerning some event, condition, or thing of which the first person had no direct experience. When submitted as evidence, such statements are called hearsay evidence. As a legal term, "hearsay" can also have the narrower meaning of the use of such information as evidence to prove the truth of what is asserted. Such use of "hearsay evidence" in court is generally not allowed. This prohibition is called the hearsay rule.

[horsetrader]

Originally Posted by canadiantdi

I believe that more proof should be required than some anonymous phone call. I don't think we should give up our protections from unreasonable search and seizure just to make it easier on F&W.

Hmmm, it's hard to tell if someone is poaching, so lets just search everyone to make sure.. Maybe the police should search every car on the yellowhead too. Hey, if you've got nothing to hide.

OK you tell me what is that F&W officer to do then...

[BeeGuy]

Originally Posted by horsetrader

Why should someone have to teach you YOUR rights you should be inclined to learn them on your own. You have to do some things for yourself

Yes, I have done that thanks.

It is too bad that not all Canadians can see the value of the rights and freedoms that so many of our best have died fighting for.

It is more important to give these up in order to catch someone stealing a walleye, or in this case, doing nothing illegal whatsoever.

[horsetrader]

Originally Posted by BeeGuy

From everyones favorite source, wikipedia:

Hearsay is information gathered by one person from another person concerning some event, condition, or thing of which the first person had no direct experience. When submitted as evidence, such statements are called hearsay evidence. As a legal term, "hearsay" can also have the narrower meaning of the use of such information as evidence to prove the truth of what is asserted. Such use of "hearsay evidence" in court is generally not allowed. This prohibition is called the hearsay rule.

Get your facts straight for once we are talking about an eyewitness not hearsay evidence .......Geeease man.

[canadiantdi]

Originally Posted by horsetrader

OK you tell me what is that F&W officer to do then...

Unfortunately I don't have the perfect answer, all I am worried about are my rights, not the rights of the government.

[BeeGuy]

Originally Posted by horsetrader

Get your facts straight for once we are talking about an eyewitness not hearsay evidence .......Geeease man.

So, was the F&W eye witnesses in this situation?

If they were they would not have had to search everything.

They were acting on hearsay evidence, aka the tip provided by some mistaken fisherman.

[horsetrader]

Originally Posted by canadiantdi

Unfortunately I don't have the perfect answer, all I am worried about are my rights, not the rights of the government.

Well in this case maybe it is better to be worried about your fishing rights being taken away in the poachers car you just let go..

[BeeGuy]

Originally Posted by horsetrader

Well in this case maybe it is better to be worried about your fishing rights being taken away in the poachers car you just let go..

I love fishing, but I do not love my "fishing rights" as much as my "human rights".

That's just me though.

[horsetrader]

Originally Posted by BeeGuy

Yes, I have done that thanks.

It is too bad that not all Canadians can see the value of the rights and freedoms that so many of our best have died fighting for.

It is more important to give these up in order to catch someone stealing a walleye, or in this case, doing nothing illegal whatsoever.

DON't even go there

[canadiantdi]

Originally Posted by horsetrader

Well in this case maybe it is better to be worried about your fishing rights being taken away in the poachers car you just let go..

I don't understand what you mean by this..

[horsetrader]

Originally Posted by BeeGuy

So, was the F&W eye witnesses in this situation?

If they were they would not have had to search everything.

They were acting on hearsay evidence, aka the tip provided by some mistaken fisherman.

And that fisherman was just sitting at home and described this person of cause he was there are you that ....whats the use you are

[BeeGuy]

Originally Posted by horsetrader

And that fisherman was just sitting at home and described this person of cause he was there are you that ....whats the use you are

hahaha, sometimes you kill me HT

[gl2]

i am gonna take a guess and say a lot of people get caught poaching by phone calls made to the rap line. i have done so many times. if you took all the power away from co's to determine if the accusations are true then you have just became a poachers best friend. are some of you guys really that narrow minded to see that?.

[canadiantdi]

Originally Posted by gl2

i am gonna take a guess and say a lot of people get caught poaching by phone calls made to the rap line. i have done so many times. if you took all the power away from co's to determine if the accusations are true then you have just became a poachers best friend. are some of you guys really that narrow minded to see that?.

No doubt that a lot of poachers are caught this way, but what about the law abiding citizens (definitely MOST fishermen) who are having their property searched? Why is that of no concern to you?

If I don't like you, should the police be able to pull you over and rip your car apart on the side of the road based on a phone call from me? Oops, sorry officer, I thought FOR SURE that I saw him put a bag of coke in his trunk!

[BeeGuy]

What we are suggesting is that there are some universal rights which cannot be over-ridden.

I am sure many of these suspects you are alluding to are caught more or less red handed, in which case, once it is established that yes, they are poaching in some manner, then there is grounds for a thorough search (and a warrant to conduct one legally).

Once a CO has checked our equipment on the ice, and our shack and seen that we are following the reg's, there is no need to search our vehicle.

If they want to search the vehicle, they can call the police/rcmp and obtain a warrant.

CO's and LEO's need to follow the rules just like we do.

[horsetrader]

Originally Posted by canadiantdi

I don't understand what you mean by this..

Some times we have to give a little to gain a lot. will I give the F&W the right to search my truck that is sitting where i'm fishing even though i've done nothing wrong YES .why is because the next truck they search may be full of poached fish. but thats just me

[horsetrader]

Originally Posted by BeeGuy

What we are suggesting is that there are some universal rights which cannot be over-ridden.

I am sure many of these suspects you are alluding to are caught more or less red handed, in which case, once it is established that yes, they are poaching in some manner, then there is grounds for a thorough search (and a warrant to conduct one legally).

Once a CO has checked our equipment on the ice, and our shack and seen that we are following the reg's, there is no need to search our vehicle.

If they want to search the vehicle, they can call the police/rcmp and obtain a warrant.

CO's and LEO's need to follow the rules just like we do.

THey are following the rules it says they can search with out warrant if the chance of evidence being lost.