7mm-08 headspace measurement

[303carbine]

Originally Posted by chuck

It’s simple. Neck sizing provides no advantages in accuracy, it messed with consistency, and creates issues with chambering and extraction.

Done properly, neck sizing will not create any problems with chambering or ejection because the brass is an exact fit to the rifle in which it was fired.
After about four firings, brass usually needs a full length resizing, then I anneal the brass and trim to length.
After twenty plus years of reloading that includes neck sizing and full length sizing, I have never had chambering or extraction problems.
Where the reloader may experience problems is when neck sizing brass that has not been fire formed in the rifle it is being neck sized for.
In my last moose hunt, there was three people with 30-06 rifles, I made sure to full length size to be sure all ammo fit all rifles.
But for my 30-06, I neck size until the brass needs full length sizing.

[Savage Bacon]

So wouldn't full length sizing every time instead of every 4th time be more consistent if you're full length sizing anyway? I do agree with leaving headspace longer to fit my chamber. Still sizing but to fit my rifle, not necessarily to saami spec.

[303carbine]

Originally Posted by Savage Bacon

So wouldn't full length sizing every time instead of every 4th time be more consistent if you're full length sizing anyway? I do agree with leaving headspace longer to fit my chamber. Still sizing but to fit my rifle, not necessarily to saami spec.

The brass lasts longer when neck sized and annealed.
I don't have any problems with consistency with either neck size or full length.

[Savage Bacon]

I guess nowhere in Canada supplies go gauges? Went to a couple gun shops (won't name them) that had no idea what I was talking about.

[Pathfinder76]

And they are in such large demand for the casual reloader. I don’t understand it.

[obsessed1]

I have loaded for almost 20 years now. Never have needed a go/ no go gauge for that purpose. Decades ago we would smoke the shoulder and set up our die until it just touched then calculated the thous/ tread per revolution and set our shoulders back accordingly no one cared what the number was, just that our brass was set back to where we wanted it based on the chamber. IMO neck sizing for a hunting rifle is not the best way. It doesn't give any advantage and you run the risk of not being able to close the bolt on a round ( Murphy's law says it will be while hunting) bump shoulders a couple thous based on your chamber and your good to go.
These days I do have a precision Mic for each caliber I load for mainly because it's faster than smoking the neck, for the average loader a match is the only tool needed for setting dies up properly.

[Pathfinder76]

Originally Posted by obsessed1

I have loaded for almost 20 years now. Never have needed a go/ no go gauge for that purpose. Decades ago we would smoke the shoulder and set up our die until it just touched then calculated the thous/ tread per revolution and set our shoulders back accordingly no one cared what the number was, just that our brass was set back to where we wanted it based on the chamber. IMO neck sizing for a hunting rifle is not the best way. It doesn't give any advantage and you run the risk of not being able to close the bolt on a round ( Murphy's law says it will be while hunting) bump shoulders a couple thous based on your chamber and your good to go.
These days I do have a precision Mic for each caliber I load for mainly because it's faster than smoking the neck, for the average loader a match is the only tool needed for setting dies up properly.

Absolutely

[32-40win]

Don't see any real value in the go-no go gauges except to a gunsmith that is messing with a chamber, or to someone with a target gun that wants to double check an new install. Maybe go-no gauges for primer pockets, if you aren't loading hot loads, not much need for those either. I have 32-40 brass that has 2-300 shots on it, primer pockets are still good. I have 7-08 that is on load #12 that has only been FLS'd once, needs annealing again, but that's all. Hunting rounds get FLS'd, everything else gets neck or partial sizing, if I don't have a neck die for it.

[Savage Bacon]

I full length sized my brass adjusting my die until it barely pushed the neck back a couple thousandths. Measuring with my headspace gauge. I guess the same concept as using a lit match?

How often do you anneal your brass? Do you wait to see signs of cracking, or after so many sizings?

[32-40win]

No real set rules as to when to anneal or FLS, although , doing both at the same time likely is more practical. I believe hunting rounds ought to be FLS only twice used, and then relegated to plinkers, that's just me. Some folk anneal more often, some don't. It's all about maintaining proper neck tension and when the brass you have loses some springback, usually, about the 5-6th load seems to be the normal interval. And it is about what gun you are using for what, how hard you chase bugholes and how long that you want to keep reusing your brass. Some cartridges don't seem to have a reloader friendly design on the brass, brass varies also, some will last forever, some designs will inherently stretch and do in the brass in a short time and never get to need annealing. 7-08 is very reloader friendly if you treat it right.

[Savage Bacon]

This is my ruger American hunting rifle. Nothing fancy. I use it for hunting and target shooting. Eventually it will become my backup/loaner rifle when I upgrade. I have remington factory ammo brass that's been fired in this rifle only. My 2 die set has a fl die that I use. As explained above I keep adjusting until the neck measurements shortens a couple thou. I want to use the brass for as long as I can.

I have the same system we're using with the bosses rifle. Hers is a savage axis with the same plan to eventually upgrade but not retire. We both plan to run probably thousands of rounds, reusing brass as much as possible. We both have around 100 rifle specific cases to work with.

[obsessed1]

I anneal after every 5 firings. Just because that's what I have chosen to do not because I'm following any real rule. I get good mileage out of most of brass

[Savage Bacon]

How often do you notice you have to case trim? I haven't checked case length yet

[qwert]

Originally Posted by Savage Bacon

I guess nowhere in Canada supplies go gauges? Went to a couple gun shops (won't name them) that had no idea what I was talking about.

IMHE,
Brownells is a VERY good supplier and have given me good service, they have a VERY good export desk and (AFAIK) do not surcharge for export to Canada. They will export many firearm items and parts that others will not.
Generally, reloading tools (but not components) are ITAR exempt.
Grafs have also been VERY good to me,
ALWAYS ask if there are any minimum order or additional charges for shipment to Canada.

https://www.brownells.com/search/ind...auge&ksubmit=y
https://www.grafs.com/retail/catalog...eadspace+gauge

ALWAYS instruct to ONLY ship via USPS International Priority Post (to avoid rapacious additional brokerage charges)
USPS charges ~US$32 for first lb, plus ~US2.50 per additional lb, (some shippers may allow/provide 20 lb flat rate box service @ ~$US$62.
Visa will add ~2.5% to convert US$ charges to a CA$ card.
CBSA will (usually but not always) charge ~CA$10 + GST (or HST).

Small orders and/or heavy items are seldom economic, but larger orders can provide substantial cost savings compared to Canadian suppliers.
Optimizing shipping cost carefully is best.
I challenge you not to find some (more likely many) desired items from Brownells.
Brownells also owns and sells great quality Sinclair tools, and will usually special order other items not regularly stocked.
Always request the your order be held and 'shipped when complete' to avoid multiple postage and CBSA charges.

Good Luck, YMMV.

[qwert]

Originally Posted by Savage Bacon

How often do you notice you have to case trim? I haven't checked case length yet

This item may be a little advanced for your skill and experience level.
I always use them to determine the best trim length for my individual chambers.
Use CAUTION and Google how to use them properly and safely.

https://www.brownells.com/reloading/...prod32925.aspx

IMHE, all of my factory chambers are very long, and my brass seldom requires trimming as most are too short. CAUTION, YMMV
Brass that is too long for your individual chamber may result in the chamber end crimping the case mouth into the bullet and seriously elevated (or dangerous) pressure.

Good Luck, YMMV.

[qwert]

Originally Posted by Savage Bacon

snip
How often do you anneal your brass? Do you wait to see signs of cracking, or after so many sizings?

I do NOT wait for signs of vertical cracking, or work hardening, or increased 'spring-back'.

I normally anneal new to me fired brass before my first firing, and before fire-forming, then again after each 5 firings.
I use the 'lead-pot' method.

Good Luck, YMMV.

[obsessed1]

Originally Posted by Savage Bacon

How often do you notice you have to case trim? I haven't checked case length yet

I check length every load. I'll pull 10 random cases out of the batch and if more than 1 needs trimming I'll run the whole batch.

[32-40win]

I always check them all. I prefer to keep them all within 1 thou of each other after the second firing. Pays to check them all for the first couple of shots, get the odd one that surprises you. Any that are sticky on the expander get checked as well, after the first trim. A draggy one on the expander also tells you to lube the inside of the case necks. That is where I like the dry lube case neck brush setup from Forster or Lyman. Pickup the case from the tray, run it over the brush, and put it in the press. Gets an even coating, doesn't matter if it gets in the case like some lubes, which you do not want getting in there. And you only have to lube about every third or fourth round with the motor mica/graphite, you can feel the difference.

[Savage Bacon]

Maybe I should have annealed everything right off the bat. I'll do it after the second firing. My sister has a shipping address in the states so I'll try to have these gauges sent there to avoid all the shipping costs. I don't have an electric case prep station. After I get into this more I may have to pick one up

[Pathfinder76]

You are wasting your money, but as they say, you can lead a horse to water.......

[qwert]

Originally Posted by Savage Bacon

snip
I don't have an electric case prep station. After I get into this more I may have to pick one up

I also don't have an electric case prep station, I have never seen the need for one, and think they are a waste of money better spent on other tools. I suspect they can cause excessive brass removal, some things are better done by hand.

I have solid head-space GO gauges for all the calibers I shoot, but do not have or use any NO-GO or field gauges as I can achieve better accuracy and results using just a GO gauge and some tape and good measuring tools (like Sinclair comparator bushings)

I also do not have (or want) a Chargemaster, (there are many reports of poor accuracy,) I would like to have a true precision 'magnetic force restoration scale' like an A&D FX120i, Sartorius or Prometheus.
https://cambridgeenviro.com/products...scales-fx-120i
https://sartorius.balances.com/
http://www.prometheustoolcorp.com/features
All are more than 'needed', but are much better than any of the strain gauge or mechanical scales I now use (and which work quite adequately).

Good Luck, YMMV.

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by qwert

I also don't have an electric case prep station, I have never seen the need for one, and think they are a waste of money better spent on other tools. I suspect they can cause excessive brass removal, some things are better done by hand.

I have solid head-space GO gauges for all the calibers I shoot, but do not have or use any NO-GO or field gauges as I can achieve better accuracy and results using just a GO gauge and some tape and good measuring tools (like Sinclair comparator bushings)

I also do not have (or want) a Chargemaster, (there are many reports of poor accuracy,) I would like to have a true precision 'magnetic force restoration scale' like an A&D FX120i, Sartorius or Prometheus.
https://cambridgeenviro.com/products...scales-fx-120i
https://sartorius.balances.com/
http://www.prometheustoolcorp.com/features
All are more than 'needed', but are much better than any of the strain gauge or mechanical scales I now use (and which work quite adequately).

Good Luck, YMMV.

I would not be without an electric case prep station, they remove the amount of material they are adjusted to remove. Not only do they save a great deal of time, but they save a lot of aggravation if you have tennis elbow. As for the Chargemaster, I base my opinion on actually having used one not on internet reports. I have no problems producing sub 1/2moa ammunition using the Chargemaster, which is more accurate than the average person is capable of shooting. I don't have or need go gauges, I just load to the chamber that I have, and haven[t had any issues.

[Savage Bacon]

I need more time away from the boss and the kids so I can actually get some loading done. I think I'm getting more experience on this forum lol.

The digital scale might be something I'll look at down the road. For now I don't mind spending extra time with my beam scale. Just want to take my time and not get ahead of myself.

[DLab]

To the OP,
You're over thinking this IMHO ,stick with the basics.Set up your sizing die till your cases fit nicely on bolt closing ,you don't need go/no go gauges for that.
You have hunting rifles ,not high end Bench Rest.
Different cartridges require trimming at different rates ,depending on load and shoulder angles.30-40 degree less often than 20-25 degree and even then manufacturers usually leave length in the chamber for leeway.I doubt 2-3 thou. over recommended trim length length/variance will make a difference with you at this point.Just keep them close to the same length.
Annealing isn't extremely difficult ,but that comes with some experience ,I don't get the feeling your there yet.
Lube your cases outside,necks inside for button sizing dies,FL size ,wipe outside cases clean ,brush out necks ,leave a little carbon in there,follow load procedures for powder and bullet seating recommendations ,shoot and have fun.
As I said ,learn the basics ,the rest comes with time and experience.

[obsessed1]

Yup OP you are over complicating things and as said possibly wasting money( money spent on firearms is never truly wasted:-) I would suggest finding a mentor close to you that will show you what's NEEDED then you can Make up your own mind on what you want. As said case prep stations can speed up your process as can digital scales. Both can be amazingly accurate and both can cause serious issues. As can any hand tool. Loading accurate ammo tailored for your particular rifle is not at all a complicated task requiring crazy tooling. Keep it simple to start.

[Pathfinder76]

Ive posted this before but it may be worth repeating.

I have been reloading for 30 plus years and as with anything you develop preferences or bias towards certain products. This is what I use and why. I have had both the Lee kit (bought when I was a teenager) and the Rock Chucker Kit. I still have bits and pieces of each, but not much is left from either. This is what I use:

Forster Co-Ax press: A complete luxury, but I got tired of runout and I sold two presses to buy it. It is really nice to work with. I find adjustments to dies are more precise and also more repeatable. And given it's floating shell holder and die holder concentricity is improved.

Redding beam scale: When I bought it 15 or 20 years ago it was relatively inexpensive and I believe it still is. I sold my RCBS scale to buy it, but am not sure it was an upgrade. It is a bit smaller which I like, and both would be as accurate as needed.

RCBS powder measurer: This came with my RCBS kit and works well. I've thought about upgrading, but am not sure an improvement would be seen. For the cost to upgrade I'm not sure it is worth it.

Wilson case trimmer: I have used a few trimmers. Most lathe type trimmers have flex and do not trim as consistently as they should. The Wilson is an exception and can actually be bought relatively cheaply. You don't get the bells and whistles, but they are a luxury not a need. Trimmers that trim off the shoulder datum are also great, but you need consistent shoulders to get consistent trim length. The Lee case length gauges and their associated trimmer are an exceptional value. They are as consistent as anything I have used, but you are relegated to one length (not a big deal, but it is a consideration) unless you modify the stop with a file.

Sinclair concentricity gauge:$120 USD One of those things I'm glad I bought. Not free, but not extremely expensive either. I bought mine on sale and went with a dial and not digital to keep costs down.

Sinclair nut comparator: $20 USD A cheap simple way to keep track of COAL using the ogive.

Sinclair bump gauges: $15 plus $8 USD Not an expensive tool that really opens your eyes to where you are moving your brass. This step can be accomplished with "feel", but sometimes you are out in left field without knowing it.

Sinclair COAL tool: $35 USD A surprisingly simple and inexpensive tool that will also open your eyes to where the lands actually are.

Dial Calliper: Cheaper than a good digital one and kinda bomb proof.

Redding FL busing dies: I like the floating bushing, the ability to control neck tension, and to FL size my cases. I buy the sizing die alone to save cash

Forster seating dies: I like a sleeve when seating bullets. I have found that the seating process wreaks havoc on concentricity. I use the non micromoter dies to save dollars.

Machinist pin gauges: These are cheap, a few dollars each, and I use them to determine neck tension. I have found the conventional methods for this to be unreliable.

Sinclair expander mandrels: I find I need those or expander balls to iron out necks. A non necessity, but I think they are $80 a piece and the die body less than $40

Lee priming tools: I haven't found a priming tool with more value. It works great. I like the originals and wish I had five of them.

Lee "O" press for bullet pulling: A $40 press that works for this one job well.

This is why I think guys should think this through a bit. It would have been cheaper for me to gather these over a bit of time than to replace later.

[Savage Bacon]

Thanks guys I'm sucking in as much of this info that can fit in my head. I need to get loading. I know an issue I have is my mind is flying faster than my body can move. I guess when the weather warms up I'll be able to get more shooting in and some actual loading experience. I'm trying to perfect everything now without having real hands on time racked up yet. Believe me I'm studying all of the suggestions. When I get home tonight I'll try to get a pic of the equipment I have so far. Me and the boss can easily go through 2000 rounds in a weekend just shooting stuff and making noise. I don't know if its luck or a curse that she likes to shoot as much as I do. This is kind of the reason I got into reloading. Plus one of my older rifles I'm having a hard time finding ammo for but I have lots of brass.

Again thanks everyone your advice and suggestions are definitely appreciated

[obsessed1]

Originally Posted by Savage Bacon

Thanks guys I'm sucking in as much of this info that can fit in my head. I need to get loading. I know an issue I have is my mind is flying faster than my body can move. I guess when the weather warms up I'll be able to get more shooting in and some actual loading experience. I'm trying to perfect everything now without having real hands on time racked up yet. Believe me I'm studying all of the suggestions. When I get home tonight I'll try to get a pic of the equipment I have so far. Me and the boss can easily go through 2000 rounds in a weekend just shooting stuff and making noise. I don't know if its luck or a curse that she likes to shoot as much as I do. This is kind of the reason I got into reloading. Plus one of my older rifles I'm having a hard time finding ammo for but I have lots of brass.

Again thanks everyone your advice and suggestions are definitely appreciated

Where you located??

[Savage Bacon]

Between calgary and red deer

[DLab]

Originally Posted by Savage Bacon

Thanks guys I'm sucking in as much of this info that can fit in my head. I need to get loading. I know an issue I have is my mind is flying faster than my body can move. I guess when the weather warms up I'll be able to get more shooting in and some actual loading experience. I'm trying to perfect everything now without having real hands on time racked up yet. Believe me I'm studying all of the suggestions. When I get home tonight I'll try to get a pic of the equipment I have so far. Me and the boss can easily go through 2000 rounds in a weekend just shooting stuff and making noise. I don't know if its luck or a curse that she likes to shoot as much as I do. This is kind of the reason I got into reloading. Plus one of my older rifles I'm having a hard time finding ammo for but I have lots of brass.

Again thanks everyone your advice and suggestions are definitely appreciated

Wow ,2000 rounds in a weekend ,hope most of that is Rimfire ,if not I'd start ordering guns 4 at a time as you're gonna be frying up barrels real regular.lol
A person can find lots of reloading how to info on the Internet ,I usually recommend The ABC'S of Reloading book for beginners.It's not absolutely necessary though.