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  #91  
Old 05-01-2016, 05:49 AM
SNAPFisher SNAPFisher is offline
 
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Originally Posted by MountainTi View Post
Looks pretty minimal to me. Nothing wrong with a one track crossing and moving slow and easy while using it. A lot less damage in that than wading miles up and down creeks disturbing numerous redds while fishing.
It really doesn't matter what you think about the damage. If it is an illegal crossing in a banned area... you understand the word "illegal" right?, it is still wrong and chargeable offence. Fines are hefty and get very steep for repeat offenders.
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  #92  
Old 05-01-2016, 06:03 AM
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Update, 4 quading idiots will be receiving tickets in the mail for trespassing. I visually witnessed 8 separate quaders throughout the day yesterday trespassing. Wonder how many more I did not see...
Four of them left in the vehicles before the RCMP got there, the 2nd group of four were not that smart. One moron on a dirt bike took off on the bike when the RCMP arrived the 2nd time. Doesn't matter because his vehicle was left on private property and I witnessed them all crossing on my property.

FYI, on the law:

While this has no direct correlation to some of the stream crossing scum on Crown Land that others are talking about here, to me, if idiots like yesterday can do this on private land and think they can get away with it, imagine their boldness on Crown land. Imagine how many of them are committing offences and don't care about it. At least in my backyard that will slowly change as quaders pockets become empty.
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  #93  
Old 05-28-2016, 02:10 PM
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After reading the initial post I was kind of surprised to see where this thread ended up going. I guess it is obvious I'm new on the forums and don't spend a lot of time on them. Sounds like most users on the site find these conversations commonplace. That being said with the way the conversations went I was surprised to see no one mention the designated ohv trails and areas. Unless I missed them. The are many ohv designated trails as well as a few land sections that are designated free riding for ohvs and trucks/jeeps. I think a solution to damage on public and private land caused by ohvs has already been found. The problem is not enough people know about them and use them. And yes I realize that fishing along streams and rivers causes damage, as well as handling fish is stressful on them. As already stated many times there are regulations in place to help mitigate damage caused by fishermen. Those regulations are also addressed and evaluated every year. Having said that, comparing damage caused by foot access on land and ohv access is just silly. I recently found a nice piece of conservation land that says foot access only and have been there many times. There are quad tracks on that property from a one time use(obviously not me) this spring that are still visible now, but I have never seen tracks left by a person there. I know a lot of responsible ohv users and unfortunately the few (depending on which side of the issue you're on I guess) are ruining it for the many. As with many hobbies and sports. My apologies for resurrecting a thread that died a few weeks ago. Just wanted to throw my 2 cents in.
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  #94  
Old 05-29-2016, 08:02 AM
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Originally Posted by Auger View Post
After reading the initial post I was kind of surprised to see where this thread ended up going. I guess it is obvious I'm new on the forums and don't spend a lot of time on them. Sounds like most users on the site find these conversations commonplace. That being said with the way the conversations went I was surprised to see no one mention the designated ohv trails and areas. Unless I missed them. The are many ohv designated trails as well as a few land sections that are designated free riding for ohvs and trucks/jeeps. I think a solution to damage on public and private land caused by ohvs has already been found. The problem is not enough people know about them and use them. And yes I realize that fishing along streams and rivers causes damage, as well as handling fish is stressful on them. As already stated many times there are regulations in place to help mitigate damage caused by fishermen. Those regulations are also addressed and evaluated every year. Having said that, comparing damage caused by foot access on land and ohv access is just silly. I recently found a nice piece of conservation land that says foot access only and have been there many times. There are quad tracks on that property from a one time use(obviously not me) this spring that are still visible now, but I have never seen tracks left by a person there. I know a lot of responsible ohv users and unfortunately the few (depending on which side of the issue you're on I guess) are ruining it for the many. As with many hobbies and sports. My apologies for resurrecting a thread that died a few weeks ago. Just wanted to throw my 2 cents in.
Good post! And welcome to forum. It happens. A lot of misdirection happens on here. Some of it silly like you said and some of because some people actually give a crap which is great by me.

After our meeting with the county and the RCMP, interesting thing about the area I'm protecting. When we find illegal quaders we call both the 24 hour RCMP line for our area as well as F&W. The 2nd half is new and something we didn't know. Because they crossing a creek that leads to the NSR and basically destroying it, it is a fish bearing creek...or was. So, trespassers on quads that cross the creek are liable for:

$2000 in fines for trespassing (up to)
$5000 in fines for 2nd offenders (up to)
$10000 in fines for each creek crossing (up to)

The good news as all of the authorities involved agree to seek the maximum since the area is now so well signed and watched. We also brought specific examples that at the meeting that I think made them sit up and take notice.
The additional nice part is our MLA also was at the meeting to take on the public awareness tasks. I was great to see and for once it did not feel helpless.

The bad news regarding trespassing is that it is a ticket that needs to be presented in person. Makes a bit more challenging for sure but keep up with photographic evidence, especially of the vehicles and ohvs. They will indeed get a call from the RCMP about their "alleged" activities and if there is stream crossing involved, F&W can take the additional steps to due further investigation - e.g. tire track samples, mud samples, and other powers. So it is not all bad and efforts can be made to change things.

It sure has been a lot quieter here for the past few weeks
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  #95  
Old 05-29-2016, 08:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Auger View Post
After reading the initial post I was kind of surprised to see where this thread ended up going. I guess it is obvious I'm new on the forums and don't spend a lot of time on them. Sounds like most users on the site find these conversations commonplace. That being said with the way the conversations went I was surprised to see no one mention the designated ohv trails and areas. Unless I missed them. The are many ohv designated trails as well as a few land sections that are designated free riding for ohvs and trucks/jeeps. I think a solution to damage on public and private land caused by ohvs has already been found. The problem is not enough people know about them and use them. And yes I realize that fishing along streams and rivers causes damage, as well as handling fish is stressful on them. As already stated many times there are regulations in place to help mitigate damage caused by fishermen. Those regulations are also addressed and evaluated every year. Having said that, comparing damage caused by foot access on land and ohv access is just silly. I recently found a nice piece of conservation land that says foot access only and have been there many times. There are quad tracks on that property from a one time use(obviously not me) this spring that are still visible now, but I have never seen tracks left by a person there. I know a lot of responsible ohv users and unfortunately the few (depending on which side of the issue you're on I guess) are ruining it for the many. As with many hobbies and sports. My apologies for resurrecting a thread that died a few weeks ago. Just wanted to throw my 2 cents in.
Your two cents was well spent!
All of us need to be accountable for our impact we leave behind, hard to police these areas especially in remote areas but when a individual or group is caught the penalty can not be a small fine it needs to hurt them really bad, loss of vehicle, heavy fine, maybe jail or better yet community time restoring what they destroyed.
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  #96  
Old 05-30-2016, 03:26 PM
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Default Pembina Closure and OHVs

As my handle suggests, I have a small original coal branch cabin at Mercoal and know the are well. Have known it well since the 1960s. I can assure you that the changes and damages to the environment has come from industry and roads for timber harvesting, not from Quads or Anglers. I fished the Pembina Falls by Honda Trike via cut lines decades ago. Fishing was always awesome. West Fraser Timber has clear cut so many sections of land there.....and I mean clear cut. You can see for miles. The roads, unlike Falls Creek Road near a Rocky, are open and not closed to OHVs. The logging roads around Mercoal - many are windier and more narrow than the Falls Creek Road....but no matter, one can see for miles due to lack of trees ! Mars landscape looks better. The silting and destruction to our environment is shocking. Yet some on this board like to focus on OHVs and the bit of dirt stirred up by crossing a stream ! really? How about every spring melt that changes the course of the McLeod River every year? Creates new log jams and removes old ones? New fishing spots? No - it is the silt and other destruction. falls creek road is closed to also prevent folks from seeing the destruction and loss of habitat, in my opinion. What about all the free ranging cattle up on Falls Creek Road ? Look at a satellite map and see the size of the clear cuts in the Coal Branch area. Also near the South Ram River. Let's get together and save the habitat from profiteering foresty companies, it isn't the average OHV user or angler. I have seen the changes over the years owning my small cabin at Mercoal. It isn't the anglers or OHV riders.
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Old 05-30-2016, 03:56 PM
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As my handle suggests, I have a small original coal branch cabin at Mercoal and know the are well. Have known it well since the 1960s. I can assure you that the changes and damages to the environment has come from industry and roads for timber harvesting, not from Quads or Anglers. I fished the Pembina Falls by Honda Trike via cut lines decades ago. Fishing was always awesome. West Fraser Timber has clear cut so many sections of land there.....and I mean clear cut. You can see for miles. The roads, unlike Falls Creek Road near a Rocky, are open and not closed to OHVs. The logging roads around Mercoal - many are windier and more narrow than the Falls Creek Road....but no matter, one can see for miles due to lack of trees ! Mars landscape looks better. The silting and destruction to our environment is shocking. Yet some on this board like to focus on OHVs and the bit of dirt stirred up by crossing a stream ! really? How about every spring melt that changes the course of the McLeod River every year? Creates new log jams and removes old ones? New fishing spots? No - it is the silt and other destruction. falls creek road is closed to also prevent folks from seeing the destruction and loss of habitat, in my opinion. What about all the free ranging cattle up on Falls Creek Road ? Look at a satellite map and see the size of the clear cuts in the Coal Branch area. Also near the South Ram River. Let's get together and save the habitat from profiteering foresty companies, it isn't the average OHV user or angler. I have seen the changes over the years owning my small cabin at Mercoal. It isn't the anglers or OHV riders.
Have you been up the Mackenzie Creek Valley in the past 5 years to see what the OHV riders have done? It is disgusting, you can't even hike back there anymore, it's just too ripped up. No logging or other development up there, just OHV's running up and down one of the only bull trout creeks that remain in the area. The logging is brutal as well, but don't give OHV's a free pass, they are having their own impact.
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  #98  
Old 05-30-2016, 04:45 PM
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Default Pembina Closure - Cuttthroat

AC - sure have. Even help my buddy pull critters from his trapline on the McKenzie in the winter, both the cabins are his. The Bulltrout fishing on the McLeod is still pretty good, I always manage a few nice ones.... All catch and release of course. My point is Quadders and OHVs pale compared to loss of habitat and the roads punched into the areas. In the 70s and early 80s, we used 4x4s to get around, the OHVs are less destructive by far. McKenzie Creek and tributaries have been closed for years. What is really sad is the state of the Beaverdam area, loss of Deer and Moose habitat. There is nothing holding back the soil or rainfall silt from flooding into Beaverdam Creek. I have seen fines on the web levied to forest companies in BC for cutting down timber that was not part of their license that were less than some levied on a simple quad rider trying to get from point A to point B on the Falls Creek Road ! There is a bridge on the falls creek road that if the forestry company shared responsibly, wouldn't force OHVs to use cut lines and cross the creek where no bridge exists. The road can easily be shared safely....and used to be open....until they started to log it out heavily right to the cliffs overlooking the ram river. Check out google earth. Let's focus on heavy industry, not the average fisherman or OHV Rider.
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  #99  
Old 05-30-2016, 05:36 PM
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AC - sure have. Even help my buddy pull critters from his trapline on the McKenzie in the winter, both the cabins are his. The Bulltrout fishing on the McLeod is still pretty good, I always manage a few nice ones.... All catch and release of course. My point is Quadders and OHVs pale compared to loss of habitat and the roads punched into the areas. In the 70s and early 80s, we used 4x4s to get around, the OHVs are less destructive by far. McKenzie Creek and tributaries have been closed for years. What is really sad is the state of the Beaverdam area, loss of Deer and Moose habitat. There is nothing holding back the soil or rainfall silt from flooding into Beaverdam Creek. I have seen fines on the web levied to forest companies in BC for cutting down timber that was not part of their license that were less than some levied on a simple quad rider trying to get from point A to point B on the Falls Creek Road ! There is a bridge on the falls creek road that if the forestry company shared responsibly, wouldn't force OHVs to use cut lines and cross the creek where no bridge exists. The road can easily be shared safely....and used to be open....until they started to log it out heavily right to the cliffs overlooking the ram river. Check out google earth. Let's focus on heavy industry, not the average fisherman or OHV Rider.
And which bridge is that?
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  #100  
Old 05-30-2016, 05:46 PM
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It is the bridge over the falls creek on the falls creek road !
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  #101  
Old 05-30-2016, 05:56 PM
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It is the bridge over the falls creek on the falls creek road !
Ah, you mean the one at km 10.5?
What has that got to do with anything? The road (and area) is shut down to public use at SRD's request.
Any quadders trespassing in the falls creek area and using the road actually have free use of the bridge. Nothing stopping them

I've spent a bit of time in Falls Creek
No cows in there either
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  #102  
Old 05-30-2016, 06:10 PM
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Lots of cows back there MTI. Lots. Saw them in August last year. No reason for that road to be closed. No logging on weekends. Used to be open. I read the Bulltrout study too. The bull trout section is BELOW the falls. Yah, I know the area pretty well myself. Lived in Rocky for 6 years. Been all over that back Country, including Sheep hunting. Scouted a new trail into the two falls below Ram Falls this winter on our snowmobiles. Won't need the damn Logging road. Love the way the forestry company also builds a road and uses part of an old cut line as well to 'block access', turning 100 yards of a cut line into 'logging road'. If you get caught on just 1 yard of the road, you are 'trespassing'. It is all about blocking access to the backcountry in general
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  #103  
Old 05-30-2016, 06:13 PM
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MTI... You mentioned 'and area' as closed. That isn't correct. If you are quadding and using cut lines on Crown Land, that isn't closed. Just the road is.
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  #104  
Old 05-30-2016, 06:42 PM
SNAPFisher SNAPFisher is offline
 
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Originally Posted by Mercoal View Post
As my handle suggests, I have a small original coal branch cabin at Mercoal and know the are well. Have known it well since the 1960s. I can assure you that the changes and damages to the environment has come from industry and roads for timber harvesting, not from Quads or Anglers. I fished the Pembina Falls by Honda Trike via cut lines decades ago. Fishing was always awesome. West Fraser Timber has clear cut so many sections of land there.....and I mean clear cut. You can see for miles. The roads, unlike Falls Creek Road near a Rocky, are open and not closed to OHVs. The logging roads around Mercoal - many are windier and more narrow than the Falls Creek Road....but no matter, one can see for miles due to lack of trees ! Mars landscape looks better. The silting and destruction to our environment is shocking. Yet some on this board like to focus on OHVs and the bit of dirt stirred up by crossing a stream ! really? How about every spring melt that changes the course of the McLeod River every year? Creates new log jams and removes old ones? New fishing spots? No - it is the silt and other destruction. falls creek road is closed to also prevent folks from seeing the destruction and loss of habitat, in my opinion. What about all the free ranging cattle up on Falls Creek Road ? Look at a satellite map and see the size of the clear cuts in the Coal Branch area. Also near the South Ram River. Let's get together and save the habitat from profiteering foresty companies, it isn't the average OHV user or angler. I have seen the changes over the years owning my small cabin at Mercoal. It isn't the anglers or OHV riders.
Not sure who you are referring to in your post. If it is me you are wrong. The area I live it is the OHV users that are the problem. They have a choice to ride elsewhere but prefer to break the law. As far as I can tell it is because it is a convenient location. Ran into 2 quaders yesterday speeding down the public road at just about 100 km/hr. I jumped in my car and followed them to a private oil lease where one of them was about to tear down a no trespassing sign. So what do they do, jump on their quads and burn across one farmers field just seeded. Then the corner of another and finally a 3rd field just planted. Going easily 80 km/hr or more. You could see the dirt flying behind them. All private land. All regular people just trying to farm and live in peace. Gutless scum come to mind when I think of them. They are not a minority either.
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  #105  
Old 05-30-2016, 06:54 PM
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Default Snap -

SNAP - no it wasn't you. And your example mentioned is pretty bad and in no way do I condone that. A few bad apples are giving the rest a black eye.... But to ride down a cut line with quads to get to a back country location, responsibly, perhaps with friends or family, and enjoy a nice day tenting and fly fishing and then being accused of destroying habitat or creeks because one has to cross a stream is overkill as well. Every time it rains heavy a stream silts up, even more so when there are not trees left !
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  #106  
Old 05-30-2016, 07:30 PM
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SNAP - no it wasn't you. And your example mentioned is pretty bad and in no way do I condone that. A few bad apples are giving the rest a black eye.... But to ride down a cut line with quads to get to a back country location, responsibly, perhaps with friends or family, and enjoy a nice day tenting and fly fishing and then being accused of destroying habitat or creeks because one has to cross a stream is overkill as well. Every time it rains heavy a stream silts up, even more so when there are not trees left !
Sounds good to me
There are too many bad apples. I wish someone could educate these people. I always test my neighbors to see if anyone has ever approached them to ask to quad and that is a big goose egg so far...sigh.

What you said about logging and industry in that area sounds pretty bad. I've driven by there enough but I'm just a visitor on my way by. Not the same as having a place there. Do you know the name of the company or companies involved in the destruction in that area?
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  #107  
Old 05-30-2016, 07:31 PM
Klondike Klondike is offline
 
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Ah, you mean the one at km 10.5?
What has that got to do with anything? The road (and area) is shut down to public use at SRD's request.
Any quadders trespassing in the falls creek area and using the road actually have free use of the bridge. Nothing stopping them

I've spent a bit of time in Falls Creek
No cows in there either
Do you have a link to the information that tells you the area is closed as well. For the life of me I can't find anything to the matter.

The road on the other hand is obviously closed, at least from the east end at 752. You can't miss the closure signage there. Can't say I know if there is any along the way in or at the west end.

There were plenty of cows in there when I went for a drive to the bridge/ camping area/ staging back in 2011. The cattle at that time were owned by the guy that owns the out west camp ground,
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Who are you going to blame when all the ohv's are gone and the fish are still dieing
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  #108  
Old 05-30-2016, 07:53 PM
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Lots of cows back there MTI. Lots. Saw them in August last year. No reason for that road to be closed. No logging on weekends. Used to be open. I read the Bulltrout study too. The bull trout section is BELOW the falls. Yah, I know the area pretty well myself. Lived in Rocky for 6 years. Been all over that back Country, including Sheep hunting. Scouted a new trail into the two falls below Ram Falls this winter on our snowmobiles. Won't need the damn Logging road. Love the way the forestry company also builds a road and uses part of an old cut line as well to 'block access', turning 100 yards of a cut line into 'logging road'. If you get caught on just 1 yard of the road, you are 'trespassing'. It is all about blocking access to the backcountry in general
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MTI... You mentioned 'and area' as closed. That isn't correct. If you are quadding and using cut lines on Crown Land, that isn't closed. Just the road is.
I had the map saved on my phone from last year for the area closure, for the life of me can't find it now. Was from last year.
Regardless, the reason the existing cutlines are used for road building is that it is a requirement. Utilize existing cutlines when possible. You will find that with all roads in the west country. No hidden agenda.
And actually there is activity in there 7 days a week at times. Logging trucks don't haul to the mill on the weekends, but still work going on back there. There is a forwarding yard at km 4 as well, trucks will haul from the back to the yard on some weekends.
Logging operations MUST adhere to all SRD guidelines and regulations. Spot checks happen quite often and they are enforced!
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  #109  
Old 05-30-2016, 08:00 PM
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Do you have a link to the information that tells you the area is closed as well. For the life of me I can't find anything to the matter.

The road on the other hand is obviously closed, at least from the east end at 752. You can't miss the closure signage there. Can't say I know if there is any along the way in or at the west end.

There were plenty of cows in there when I went for a drive to the bridge/ camping area/ staging back in 2011. The cattle at that time were owned by the guy that owns the out west camp ground,
Sorry, can't find the digital map I had, must have deleted off my phone and can't find a link now. It was from last year. I'm not actually sure when they started restricting access. I just started doing some work up in there 1.5 years ago
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  #110  
Old 05-31-2016, 01:30 AM
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The area is not closed. Just the road. There are ways back into the Ram via cut lines.
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Old 05-31-2016, 01:04 PM
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The area is not closed. Just the road. There are ways back into the Ram via cut lines.
Of course, that is until the timber companies decide to expand their network of roads, use a 50 yard section of cut line, and then call the roads closed to OHVs and charge riders with trespass. All to 'protect' the back country and be more 'efficient' in road use ...LOL. Turn hundreds of sections of land into moonscape and use a bit of cut line in the name of "efficiency". I don't buy it.
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Old 05-31-2016, 01:39 PM
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Of course, that is until the timber companies decide to expand their network of roads, use a 50 yard section of cut line, and then call the roads closed to OHVs and charge riders with trespass. All to 'protect' the back country and be more 'efficient' in road use ...LOL. Turn hundreds of sections of land into moonscape and use a bit of cut line in the name of "efficiency". I don't buy it.
Take it up with your local MLA. Government (ie. SRD) imposes and enforces the rules and regs. SFP ain't out to get ya
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  #113  
Old 05-31-2016, 04:16 PM
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Take it up with your local MLA. Government (ie. SRD) imposes and enforces the rules and regs. SFP ain't out to get ya
Not so sure about that one MTI. Road closures are either by Ministerial Decree, which is to be posted and signed and available to the Public to review on the internet; or via Terms and Conditions under the License of Occupation. With Falls Creek being claimed as a Private Road, it is SFP that asked for this. Do you know something different? You sound like you work for SFP.
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Old 05-31-2016, 07:49 PM
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I had to register so I could add my voice to Mercoal's. Falls creek is a perfect example of how people can get diverted from the real issues impacting our watershed. You don't hear a word from anyone about clearcutting and gas and oil exploration and production, just those nasty atv guys, and even then most of the damage is imagined. How is Falls creek different today? It's watershed is destroyed by clearcutting and yet in a few years when the Bull Trout are impacted it will be the atv's that caused it.

The road is closed so people cannot see what a horrific mess there is all the way up to Lynx creek and North across the Ram. Atvs are a problem but they are not THE problem, just a handy scapegoat for haters to crow about!
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  #115  
Old 05-31-2016, 08:25 PM
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I had to register so I could add my voice to Mercoal's. Falls creek is a perfect example of how people can get diverted from the real issues impacting our watershed. You don't hear a word from anyone about clearcutting and gas and oil exploration and production, just those nasty atv guys, and even then most of the damage is imagined. How is Falls creek different today? It's watershed is destroyed by clearcutting and yet in a few years when the Bull Trout are impacted it will be the atv's that caused it.

The road is closed so people cannot see what a horrific mess there is all the way up to Lynx creek and North across the Ram. Atvs are a problem but they are not THE problem, just a handy scapegoat for haters to crow about!
So who on this post is not recognizing industry damage? All I see is deflection from a good discussion on quading from you. It is one of many problems. No doubt bull dozers and heavy equipment can do way more damage than quading. That is not the point. You are talking about one area, which is a noble cause to fight about for sure, but quaders are like locusts infecting all areas, and, it continues to grow. That is the difference I see. Both worth fighting about. So instead of deflecting away from quaders like you seem to want to do, why don't you help out there too?
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  #116  
Old 05-31-2016, 09:14 PM
Charlyboy Charlyboy is offline
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So who on this post is not recognizing industry damage? All I see is deflection from a good discussion on quading from you. It is one of many problems. No doubt bull dozers and heavy equipment can do way more damage than quading. That is not the point. You are talking about one area, which is a noble cause to fight about for sure, but quaders are like locusts infecting all areas, and, it continues to grow. That is the difference I see. Both worth fighting about. So instead of deflecting away from quaders like you seem to want to do, why don't you help out there too?
I'm deflecting away from quadders because they are the scapegoats for a far bigger problem...that is the problem and Falls Creek is the perfect example. Some people, government, and industry are all thrilled the diversion is working so well. They even have the RCMP chasing atv's out in the bush. When was the last time anyone was charged for a hanging culvert?
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Old 05-31-2016, 09:52 PM
SNAPFisher SNAPFisher is offline
 
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I'm deflecting away from quadders because they are the scapegoats for a far bigger problem...that is the problem and Falls Creek is the perfect example. Some people, government, and industry are all thrilled the diversion is working so well. They even have the RCMP chasing atv's out in the bush. When was the last time anyone was charged for a hanging culvert?
Yeah, first time RCMP quad patrol this last weekend. Very cool! Got to give them the tools to get the job done. When I'm done with quaders here in my own backyard I'll be glad to join you at Falls Creek. What do you plan to do in the meantime about it?
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  #118  
Old 06-01-2016, 09:18 AM
Charlyboy Charlyboy is offline
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Yeah, first time RCMP quad patrol this last weekend. Very cool! Got to give them the tools to get the job done. When I'm done with quaders here in my own backyard I'll be glad to join you at Falls Creek. What do you plan to do in the meantime about it?
Try and clue people like you in so just carry on chasing mice while the lions destroy the country.
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  #119  
Old 06-01-2016, 10:43 AM
fargineyesore fargineyesore is offline
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You are wasting your breath. These guys refuse to acknowledge that fishermen have a big impact on fisheries, they just want to deflect the blame for declining fish stocks on OHV users, rather than look in the mirror.
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  #120  
Old 06-01-2016, 08:55 PM
SNAPFisher SNAPFisher is offline
 
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You are wasting your breath. These guys refuse to acknowledge that fishermen have a big impact on fisheries, they just want to deflect the blame for declining fish stocks on OHV users, rather than look in the mirror.
Oh don't worry Fargin...
Quaders destroy much more than fish habitat. They don't stop at that. You name it, they destroy it if they can ride over it. No deflection here. Hard video and camera evidence goes a long way to show the real culprits.
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