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  #121  
Old 06-01-2016, 10:37 PM
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Mercoal Mercoal is offline
 
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Originally Posted by SNAPFisher View Post
Oh don't worry Fargin...
Quaders destroy much more than fish habitat. They don't stop at that. You name it, they destroy it if they can ride over it. No deflection here. Hard video and camera evidence goes a long way to show the real culprits.
SNAP - it is unfortunate that you seem to be having issues with a few irresponsible Quad Riders. I would say most do not fall into that category. But there is no way that Quadders do more harm than Industry .... Especially logging companies. I have seen folks posting pictures here of some ruts on trails, and a guy going through a stream (to cross it) with a quad. And..... .? Yet let's step back and look at the big picture. I know of dozens of 'former trails' that are now un recognizable .....and that is because they can't be seen because they are lost in the moonscape of a clear cut with twisted up logs everywhere; no trees; etc.... Can't even tell where the trail was! Can't tell where the cut line was ! Previously, the "rut" looked bad in relation to the pristine environment, but they are two slivers in the big picture; two needles in a haystack. Now, when the haystack is completely gone.....a track there would be like complaining about leaving ruts on mars. The logging companies don't want us to see the destruction. That is why they close roads. That is also why they many times leave 50 yard "buffer zones" along roads to give folks driving along these roads the impression that there is lots of timber out there. All one needs to do is walk a bit through this and see the huge cuts and damage and silting up of streams. A quad stirs up a bit of dirt and gravel during a crossing and the creek clears up quickly. Heavy rains and floods stir up a lot more for a lot longer.... A few of us know how quickly the Ram River silts up....takes 3-4 days of no rain for it to be fish able again. And the fishing gets great, yet again ! It is absolute horseshilt that a quad crossing a creek or river causes any long term sustainable damage. Now when there are no trees and vegetation to hold back heavy rains, different story ! Sure, Quads getting guys to backcountry and if folks poach the hek out of a small stream or River - that has a negative effect. But that isn't the Quad, it is the poacher. Let's focus on the big picture.
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  #122  
Old 06-02-2016, 06:14 AM
pipco pipco is offline
 
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SNAP - it is unfortunate that you seem to be having issues with a few irresponsible Quad Riders. I would say most do not fall into that category. But there is no way that Quadders do more harm than Industry .... Especially logging companies. I have seen folks posting pictures here of some ruts on trails, and a guy going through a stream (to cross it) with a quad. And..... .? Yet let's step back and look at the big picture. I know of dozens of 'former trails' that are now un recognizable .....and that is because they can't be seen because they are lost in the moonscape of a clear cut with twisted up logs everywhere; no trees; etc.... Can't even tell where the trail was! Can't tell where the cut line was ! Previously, the "rut" looked bad in relation to the pristine environment, but they are two slivers in the big picture; two needles in a haystack. Now, when the haystack is completely gone.....a track there would be like complaining about leaving ruts on mars. The logging companies don't want us to see the destruction. That is why they close roads. That is also why they many times leave 50 yard "buffer zones" along roads to give folks driving along these roads the impression that there is lots of timber out there. All one needs to do is walk a bit through this and see the huge cuts and damage and silting up of streams. A quad stirs up a bit of dirt and gravel during a crossing and the creek clears up quickly. Heavy rains and floods stir up a lot more for a lot longer.... A few of us know how quickly the Ram River silts up....takes 3-4 days of no rain for it to be fish able again. And the fishing gets great, yet again ! It is absolute horseshilt that a quad crossing a creek or river causes any long term sustainable damage. Now when there are no trees and vegetation to hold back heavy rains, different story ! Sure, Quads getting guys to backcountry and if folks poach the hek out of a small stream or River - that has a negative effect. But that isn't the Quad, it is the poacher. Let's focus on the big picture.
I won't deny that logging, oil and gas companies do their share of damage.
Many of them also employ people so they can pay mortgages, put food on the table, buy clothes for their kids, etc.

What benefits do OHV's provide besides making a lot of money for a few dealerships that sell them.

15,000-25,000 OHV owners ( probably a very low estimate) and you're trying to tell me they do no damage to the environment

What ever happened to the days where we walked a cut line or rode a horse to areas that can now be reached with quads and side by sides?

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  #123  
Old 06-02-2016, 06:41 AM
pipco pipco is offline
 
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I forgot.

I do know a number of folks that actually use quads and side by sides for productive activities.

Farmers, ranchers and acreage owners that ride them to check fence lines and move cattle (my Dad and many others), haul and move water, check on their crops, do maintenance work and move stuff around their property ( not crown land).

There are also a few other industries/businesses that utilize them for work purposes but they are not running super powerful machines with big ass, paddle tires that leave ruts, tear up muskeg and surrounding habitat, destroy Crown land and private property.

They don't cut fences or run over crops, tear down signs, or rip through rivers and streams just for fun.

Designated areas for OHV users is fine and eventually they will be banned from all other crown land. That is what it is coming down the line whether all the "responsible" OHV users like it or not.

If the few spoil it for the many, the consequences will be what they will be.

We can agree to disagree.

Rant over.
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  #124  
Old 06-02-2016, 09:03 AM
fargineyesore fargineyesore is offline
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Target shooters do no good either, so we should ban target shooting also?

How about the Homestead Range? That was a real shining example of hunters and shooters being responsible.

What's wrong with riding a quad because it's enjoyable? You call quadders troglodytes and that is okay on this forum I guess.

We'll see what the mods think.
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  #125  
Old 06-02-2016, 09:04 AM
fargineyesore fargineyesore is offline
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Originally Posted by pipco View Post
I forgot.

I do know a number of folks that actually use quads and side by sides for productive activities.

Farmers, ranchers and acreage owners that ride them to check fence lines and move cattle (my Dad and many others), haul and move water, check on their crops, do maintenance work and move stuff around their property ( not crown land).

There are also a few other industries/businesses that utilize them for work purposes but they are not running super powerful machines with big ass, paddle tires that leave ruts, tear up muskeg and surrounding habitat, destroy Crown land and private property.

They don't cut fences or run over crops, tear down signs, or rip through rivers and streams just for fun.

Designated areas for OHV users is fine and eventually they will be banned from all other crown land. That is what it is coming down the line whether all the "responsible" OHV users like it or not.

If the few spoil it for the many, the consequences will be what they will be.

We can agree to disagree.

Rant over.
You mean like hunters?
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  #126  
Old 06-02-2016, 10:45 AM
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Mercoal Mercoal is offline
 
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Default Falls Creek

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Originally Posted by pipco View Post
I won't deny that logging, oil and gas companies do their share of damage.
Many of them also employ people so they can pay mortgages, put food on the table, buy clothes for their kids, etc.

What benefits do OHV's provide besides making a lot of money for a few dealerships that sell them.

15,000-25,000 OHV owners ( probably a very low estimate) and you're trying to tell me they do no damage to the environment?

Denial, denial denial. For shame.

What ever happened to the days we got off our fat lazy asses and walked a cut line or rode a horse to areas that can now be reached with noisy, stinking, troglodyte owned, environment destroying quads and side by sides?

Denial, denial, denial.

Really Pip? I am an avid outdoorsman ...hunting and fishing... And also a hobby farmer and acreage owner. 40 acres. I use my quad(s) for all the above as well as enjoyable recreational use. Oh I get it, because you have horses, then everyone should have them and ban quads ! Get off your high horse ! What about snowmobiles ? I have 5 ! Love using them....oh right, ban them too and everyone get your snowshoes out because Pip has snowshoes ! What about all the small engine repair shops ? How many jobs there? All the side jobs and expenses from RV users ? Gas stations, restaurants, trailers, etc... That isn't even the point Pip. Your obviously one of those that feels that because you don't enjoy an activity....then all others should be banned from it. Many in PETA feel that fishing is brutal and should be stopped and all farmers are murderers. To each his own. It is about mutual respect, responsibility and focusing on the facts. FACTS ! When I read about farm owners that have abused animals and have been shut down or fined.... I don't believe that is the majority. When I see efforts to have farmer markets shut down in name of 'consumer safety' I see that for what it is ... Big Business trying to monopolize the food business and put small farm operators out of business. All in the name of protecting the public from eating a bad egg. Forestry, logging, are the big destroyers of our forests and habitat. Not recreational OHV use.
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  #127  
Old 06-02-2016, 11:02 AM
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Mercoal Mercoal is offline
 
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Default OHV Use

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Originally Posted by pipco View Post
I won't deny that logging, oil and gas companies do their share of damage.
Many of them also employ people so they can pay mortgages, put food on the table, buy clothes for their kids, etc.

What benefits do OHV's provide besides making a lot of money for a few dealerships that sell them.

15,000-25,000 OHV owners ( probably a very low estimate) and you're trying to tell me they do no damage to the environment

What ever happened to the days where we walked a cut line or rode a horse to areas that can now be reached with quads and side by sides?

Pip .. Again, let's try and think it through a bit. Work with me here, I know it may be hard for you. How do you link Quad Owners to recreational use ? How many of those quad owners are the farmers you mentioned ?! Of course, use of a quad only on private land means it does NOT have to be insured or registered.... But many do. I have four quads ! But a couple almost never go outside my farm / acreage . I have one 1995 quad with about 3000 miles on it. Let's see....that is about 150 miles per year ! That is about 25 miles per month for six months (rideable months). That is about 1, 12 mile ride (round trip) per month for let's say a weekend outing .... Like many busy folks ! Really ?! Wow ! So much damage ! Now my 2006 Polaris 500 has more miles ! Because it is my main hunting and fishing and recreational Quad. Most miles put on during hunting. And I get my Elk almost every year.... Use my quad to get to where I want to go in evenings then walk and bugle. Walk many miles in morning. Use it to haul out game with my trailer, via cut lines. Still lots of animals out there, bush is in great shape ! Of course, one of my favourite spots was completely logged out last year in the saddle hills. No more Elk or Quad Trails there !! Am scared of what I will find up there this year ! Pip, can you provide me your number so I can call you to haul out my Elk with your horses next time I get one ? LOL. Please...... Get off your high horse and think.
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  #128  
Old 06-02-2016, 11:49 AM
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Default To All. Forestry Fine Example

Folks, check out this inequality example. I have been reading about quad riders on so called closed forestry logging roads getting fines in the thousands of dollars. Yet a large Forestry Company goes out and cuts a bunch of timber outside of their licensed area. The fines levied could have been up to $500,000. What did they get ? $1500 But wait, it gets better ! They claim it was a mistake, wasn't intentional. Although they lost that argument on appeal, the fine was rescinded ! So no fine ! Joe Quadder can get $1500 for being on a logging road, even by accident ..... But forest companies .... Log away ! I suppose the Martian landscape is kind of pretty in its own perverse kind of way...much prettier on horseback....

http://www.fac.gov.bc.ca/forestPracCode/1997for06.pdf
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  #129  
Old 06-02-2016, 01:59 PM
SNAPFisher SNAPFisher is offline
 
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Originally Posted by Mercoal View Post
SNAP - it is unfortunate that you seem to be having issues with a few irresponsible Quad Riders. I would say most do not fall into that category.
It is not a few. It is the majority in this particular area. We have the perfect storm of an area where it is some of the best land for riding and enjoying. Problem is it is all private. That and being close to a big city and several towns is the perfect storm. When I say majority it is like easily 90% of them up to no good and know their actions are wrong.

This is not the only place. I've done my research and same sentiment is echoed again, again, again....and again. I don't think you realize how big the actual problem is. It is not a few in my example or in the others I read about. Good thing is that it is solvable but will take a lot of hard work, some $$$ and time. Last Sunday I would have rather been fishing the Red Deer in the evening but instead had to deal with several idiots. But, fishing will have to wait until this can be sorted out. Out of the 4 idiots I saw, all broke the law and then several laws. You see what I mean...

I for sure see your point on industry and that area is worth fighting for. I would be happy to do what I can after dealing with my problem. In turn, maybe think about how it might not be bad for OHVs where you are...maybe it is a lot worse elsewhere...that is what I am finding out.
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  #130  
Old 06-02-2016, 04:53 PM
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Mercoal Mercoal is offline
 
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It is not a few. It is the majority in this particular area. We have the perfect storm of an area where it is some of the best land for riding and enjoying. Problem is it is all private. That and being close to a big city and several towns is the perfect storm. When I say majority it is like easily 90% of them up to no good and know their actions are wrong.

This is not the only place. I've done my research and same sentiment is echoed again, again, again....and again. I don't think you realize how big the actual problem is. It is not a few in my example or in the others I read about. Good thing is that it is solvable but will take a lot of hard work, some $$$ and time. Last Sunday I would have rather been fishing the Red Deer in the evening but instead had to deal with several idiots. But, fishing will have to wait until this can be sorted out. Out of the 4 idiots I saw, all broke the law and then several laws. You see what I mean...

I for sure see your point on industry and that area is worth fighting for. I would be happy to do what I can after dealing with my problem. In turn, maybe think about how it might not be bad for OHVs where you are...maybe it is a lot worse elsewhere...that is what I am finding out.

SNAP - what area are you talking about ?
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  #131  
Old 06-02-2016, 05:37 PM
ishootbambi ishootbambi is offline
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SNAP - what area are you talking about ?
Sigh....I said I was out...but this needs to be said.

He's talking about things other than the original post. He is also attacking other members and users. That's a derail and insult. I seem to recall a member getting suspended for those reasons in this very thread.....
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  #132  
Old 06-02-2016, 10:04 PM
SNAPFisher SNAPFisher is offline
 
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SNAP - what area are you talking about ?
Kind of equally between Leduc, Devon, Calmar and Thorsby.
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  #133  
Old 06-02-2016, 10:06 PM
SNAPFisher SNAPFisher is offline
 
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Sigh....I said I was out...but this needs to be said.

He's talking about things other than the original post. He is also attacking other members and users. That's a derail and insult. I seem to recall a member getting suspended for those reasons in this very thread.....
???
Didn't insult anybody, seem to recall that going the other way.

We are talking about the quading part now and destruction they cause. MerCoal is talking an area around the Ram river and industry damage. Both valid in my opinion. Do you have anything else?

P.S. I'm going on about because it is were I live and not a place I visit. How would you like it if someone came on your property, ripped it up, vandalized it, and then took off.
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  #134  
Old 06-04-2016, 08:56 AM
pipco pipco is offline
 
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Really Pip? To each his own. It is about mutual respect, responsibility and focusing on the facts. Forestry, logging, are the big destroyers of our forests and habitat. Not recreational OHV use.
Merc,
Sorry, you lost me at "mutual respect". Again, I'm not disagreeing with you as far as environmental damage done by Big oil and gas and logging companies.

If the majority of OHV owners had "mutual respect" for Crown land, private property and other individuals, we wouldn't even be discussing this.

You are entitled to your opinion on this subject and so am I.

Neither of us is right or wrong.
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  #135  
Old 06-04-2016, 12:57 PM
ishootbambi ishootbambi is offline
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Merc,


If the majority of OHV owners had "mutual respect" for Crown land, private property and other individuals, we wouldn't even be discussing this.


Neither of us is right or wrong.
No someone is right and someone is wrong.

I'm betting it's not a majority of users causing the problems. Like anything the meatheads get the press. When people ride responsibly, it doesn't make the news. I could go to known riding areas...for me the Castle region is closest...and if I ran a video camera I could show you hours and hours of footage of people enjoying themselves on machines in a low impact responsible way. I was just there two weeks ago and saw it first hand. I also saw a couple dummies go around a sign saying not to ride up an old wash too. What I saw was 98 percent no problem and 2 percent meathead. I tried to get video of the criminals but they took off when they saw me with a camera. If I had got it, and that's all I posted here it would paint a picture. Not an accurate one but a picture.

Quad haters have a huge biased perception. Maybe that's the answer...quad users need to post more pics and video of legitimate usage. That or we could let you haters have your way and ban it. And tree buggers can ban hunting and fishing. And those that never leave the city can ban camping and hiking. And.......as long as the ban screamers get their way we can all stay home. It doesn't matter what you like to do someone else hates it. Think about that....
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  #136  
Old 06-04-2016, 02:19 PM
pipco pipco is offline
 
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Originally Posted by ishootbambi View Post
No someone is right and someone is wrong.
O.k.

If the province does eventually ban ( and they probably will) all "recreational"
( and I use that term loosely) OHV users from Crown Land ( with the exception of designated areas only) the "responsible" owners can bitch and whine that it was all those "other guys" that made this happen.

Will it matter then, who is right and who is wrong?

You choose to see it one way and I have a much different perception.
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  #137  
Old 06-04-2016, 08:15 PM
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Mercoal Mercoal is offline
 
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No someone is right and someone is wrong.

I'm betting it's not a majority of users causing the problems. Like anything the meatheads get the press. When people ride responsibly, it doesn't make the news. I could go to known riding areas...for me the Castle region is closest...and if I ran a video camera I could show you hours and hours of footage of people enjoying themselves on machines in a low impact responsible way. I was just there two weeks ago and saw it first hand. I also saw a couple dummies go around a sign saying not to ride up an old wash too. What I saw was 98 percent no problem and 2 percent meathead. I tried to get video of the criminals but they took off when they saw me with a camera. If I had got it, and that's all I posted here it would paint a picture. Not an accurate one but a picture.

Quad haters have a huge biased perception. Maybe that's the answer...quad users need to post more pics and video of legitimate usage. That or we could let you haters have your way and ban it. And tree buggers can ban hunting and fishing. And those that never leave the city can ban camping and hiking. And.......as long as the ban screamers get their way we can all stay home. It doesn't matter what you like to do someone else hates it. Think about that....
I like that idea. Post pictures of "nothing to see here" normal Quad riding ....! And post pictures of moonscape from logging.
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  #138  
Old 06-04-2016, 10:57 PM
SNAPFisher SNAPFisher is offline
 
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Originally Posted by ishootbambi View Post
Quad haters have a huge biased perception. Maybe that's the answer...quad users need to post more pics and video of legitimate usage. That or we could let you haters have your way and ban it. And tree buggers can ban hunting and fishing. And those that never leave the city can ban camping and hiking. And.......as long as the ban screamers get their way we can all stay home. It doesn't matter what you like to do someone else hates it. Think about that....
Looks like you are wrong. I hate them because they make me hate them. I tried to be nice, give them the benefit of the doubt but that didn't work at all. And it wasn't a few, 2 percent my aunt fanny, that did this. 90%! Proof is in the pictures and the cam footage.

Had a dirt biker trespassing yesterday just after I got home from Calgary. Boy that was a nice welcome after a long hot drive...
Had a "talk" with him that he did not ask for permission and was in danger of getting caught if he stayed. Guy pulls off my land down in the creek area, takes off down the highway and I watch him leave until he is wayyyyy out of sight as in Kms away. Go back home and start getting stuff ready for yard work. The guy appears now out front of my house on the road, slows down, turns his head back towards me and watches me at the house. So he came back all the way ...to look for me...
3 minutes later he is back heading the other direction and really makes the point of sitting up in the seat and slowing right down to watch me. WTF!! Why??? Why did he have to push it? This example is exactly what is wrong. No respect, no fear, no mans land. Bothered me all night. I can tell you what ran through my head. It is good thing we can't get arrested for thinking what we would like to do to someone. Best part is that I have the proof of him on the trail cam as the same bike, same person.

So when you tell of this fairy tale land where the OHV users idle slowly on their nice mud free machines and fish jump up to kiss them as they idle slowly by....hah!!! I have yet to see this utopia of well behaved OHV users at bliss with the environment.
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  #139  
Old 06-05-2016, 08:43 AM
pipco pipco is offline
 
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Looks like you are wrong. I hate them because they make me hate them. I tried to be nice, give them the benefit of the doubt but that didn't work at all. And it wasn't a few, 2 percent my aunt fanny, that did this. 90%! Proof is in the pictures and the cam footage.

Had a dirt biker trespassing yesterday just after I got home from Calgary. Boy that was a nice welcome after a long hot drive...
Had a "talk" with him that he did not ask for permission and was in danger of getting caught if he stayed. Guy pulls off my land down in the creek area, takes off down the highway and I watch him leave until he is wayyyyy out of sight as in Kms away. Go back home and start getting stuff ready for yard work. The guy appears now out front of my house on the road, slows down, turns his head back towards me and watches me at the house. So he came back all the way ...to look for me...
3 minutes later he is back heading the other direction and really makes the point of sitting up in the seat and slowing right down to watch me. WTF!! Why??? Why did he have to push it? This example is exactly what is wrong. No respect, no fear, no mans land. Bothered me all night. I can tell you what ran through my head. It is good thing we can't get arrested for thinking what we would like to do to someone. Best part is that I have the proof of him on the trail cam as the same bike, same person.

So when you tell of this fairy tale land where the OHV users idle slowly on their nice mud free machines and fish jump up to kiss them as they idle slowly by....hah!!! I have yet to see this utopia of well behaved OHV users at bliss with the environment.
Snap,

Not much "mutual respect" there.

Incidents like this make it virtually impossible to be unbiased concerning OHV users.


Is there a rule when purchasing an OHV that states, the higher the horsepower and big wheels, the lower the IQ?

Certainly seems that way.
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  #140  
Old 06-23-2016, 12:40 PM
AlbertaCutthroat AlbertaCutthroat is offline
 
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Drove over the Pembina a few times while fishing stillwaters in the area last week. Quads in the river, tracks up and down the banks, water trucks pumping water out of the very low tribs, and logging companies all over the place trying to remove every last tree. Special thanks to the provincial biologists who made such efforts to protect the grayling by banning anglers, what a great effort........
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  #141  
Old 06-23-2016, 03:49 PM
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Drove over the Pembina a few times while fishing stillwaters in the area last week. Quads in the river, tracks up and down the banks, water trucks pumping water out of the very low tribs, and logging companies all over the place trying to remove every last tree. Special thanks to the provincial biologists who made such efforts to protect the grayling by banning anglers, what a great effort........
And no stewards of the land present due to no fishing...
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  #142  
Old 06-23-2016, 04:08 PM
Dr.Shortington Dr.Shortington is offline
 
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Originally Posted by ishootbambi View Post
Sigh....I said I was out...but this needs to be said.

He's talking about things other than the original post. He is also attacking other members and users. That's a derail and insult. I seem to recall a member getting suspended for those reasons in this very thread.....
Are you tattling? Hahaha....grow up.
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  #143  
Old 06-25-2016, 12:46 PM
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So much butt hurt in one place

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