25 mercury vs 40/30 yamaha jet

[mked]

Hey guys. Looking for some feedback from guys that run outboard jets.
Motor will be going on a 420 solar strella inflatable
Tiller handle

Yamaha 40/30 cost around 10k, 227 lbs, electric start only so need to have a battery also.

Mercury 35/25 cost around 7k, 186 lbs, can get in pull start

With a jet is the extra 5 hp worth the costs? Anything else to factor in? Any other motor recommendations? I'd love to get a 2 stroke but not having much luck finding anything used.
Boat will be my everything boat, but mostly fishing/hunting eastern slope rivers or rivers in bc. Speed is not important. But planeing with potential weight is.
Can I troll lakes with an outboard jet?

Thanks

[guru fisher]

Outboard jets troll really good. i would go with a 60-40 or 70-50. That much more power to plane out with a decent load and 2 guys. I had a 25 jet and 40-30 work fine if your empty as soon as you add weight or your fat buddy then not enough power

[mlee]

Originally Posted by guru fisher

Outboard jets troll really good. i would go with a 60-40 or 70-50. That much more power to plane out with a decent load and 2 guys. I had a 25 jet and 40-30 work fine if your empty as soon as you add weight or your fat buddy then not enough power

My guess is a 40/30 will ne the max he can go on a 420 sib.
Pretty sure member positrac runs a 40/30 jet on his 420....shoot him a PM.

[Tommy]

I have the same model boat, use a 25/20 merc OBJ 2 stroke on it, works well with just wife and I, a cooler, 2 jerry cans and fishing gear. We won't be winning any races that's for sure but plenty fast enough for us.

Thing is about these boats you don't have to go WOT to stay shallow, the bottom shape of the bottom creates a sort of wave under you and this lifts up the boat, even at low speed. This feature combined with a well thought out jet tunnel makes it run really shallow.

Distributing the weight is important and keeping the floor pressure up, I like to run as light as possible and be as portable as possible.

Tommy

[Positrac]

Originally Posted by mked

Hey guys. Looking for some feedback from guys that run outboard jets.
Motor will be going on a 420 solar strella inflatable
Tiller handle

Yamaha 40/30 cost around 10k, 227 lbs, electric start only so need to have a battery also.

Mercury 35/25 cost around 7k, 186 lbs, can get in pull start

With a jet is the extra 5 hp worth the costs? Anything else to factor in? Any other motor recommendations? I'd love to get a 2 stroke but not having much luck finding anything used.
Boat will be my everything boat, but mostly fishing/hunting eastern slope rivers or rivers in bc. Speed is not important. But planeing with potential weight is.
Can I troll lakes with an outboard jet?

Thanks

Depends on if you want to keep the unit portable or put it on a trailer and keep the motor on it.

The Yammy 40/30 jet will weigh closer to 240lbs. There may be a manual start out there at 227lbs but not that I’ve seen. It’s also a physically bigger motor than the 25hp Merc 4-stroke, which makes it a 2 person lift and that’s 2 big guys who can lift a bit of weight. It’s not what I would call portable and would be better suited to a 450 that’s kept on a trailer. I have a good friend with a 40/30 Yammy on a 420 Strela Expedition with 6 hours on the motor and he’s looking to downsize to the 25hp Merc even though he’ll loose a lot of capacity. Something else to think about is every time the intake hits something solid there is that much more motor to tilt out of the water, so they could sustain damage much more easily than a lighter motor.

The 25hp Merc 4-stroke is a nice motor but Merc rates them a bit generous. It’s only 30hp at the crank, not 35. So, it’s closer to 21-22hp at the pump. Still enough to get up on step with a couple guys, some gear and a young bull moose boned out. They are somewhat portable but still a big motor when compared to a 30hp at the crank 2-stroke with a pump on it. One guy can lift it but it’s a grunt. It’s not the weight but the physical size of the motor that makes them awkward. I have 3 buddy’s with the 420 Strela and a Merc 25hp 4-stroke jet combos.

Despite what anyone tells you outboard jets suck to troll with. Unlike a motor with a skeg that works like a rudder a jet has very little steering control until you are up on step. Just nature of the beast. Add in a fairly flat bottomed boat with a bit of wind and it’s a constant chore to keep them going in a straight line until you are up and going.

My last Solar was a 380JT with a Merc 25/20hp 2-stroke factory jet. Again, probably only 17-18hp out the pump. It went good but the same motor on a 420 did slightly better. The added bottom surface area made up for the extra weight. I could pound that motor in the shallow stuff all day with the Vezdehod polyurethane intake on it. I had a bungee around the back of the motor to stop it from kicking up too far and it helped keep the intake in the water once it hit something. I also had the auto motor lock removed so that it didn’t stay up in the locked position when it hit something. You could still manually tilt the motor up and lock it when the intake plugged.

I’ve got a new 420 Strela Expedition for this year. I also have the Holy Grail of small jets to put on it. I was lucky enough to find a basically new 2012 Merc Sea Pro short shaft 25hp 2-stroke. It basically a de-tuned 30hp Tohatsu that’s still being produced elsewhere in the world and hasn’t changed since the mid-80’s. They are a rock solid motor known to be very durable and dependable. The 25 was easily converted back to 30hp by removing the carb restrictor plate and advancing the timing 5 degrees. That’s the only difference between the 30 & 25hp models. Everything else is exactly the same. Outlaw Eagle in Red Deer got me the pump kit. I’ve ported the exhaust and polished the pump housing. I also added a stainless impeller and a polyurethane intake which are both money well spent. At 134lbs total it’s the best power to weight you can get in a small jet. Just like the Merc 4-stroke 25hp it is 30hp at the crank and 21-22hp out the pump. But it winds up way faster and is a screamer compared to the 4-stroke. It’s also easily portable by one guy.

Here’s a pic of my 2-stroke next to a buddy’s 4-stroke 25hp Merc.

[Positrac]

Originally Posted by Tommy

Thing is about these boats you don't have to go WOT to stay shallow, the bottom shape of the bottom creates a sort of wave under you and this lifts up the boat, even at low speed. This feature combined with a well thought out jet tunnel makes it run really shallow.

I had a habit of cracking the throttle full each time I got in the shallow stuff because that’s what you need to do to get through it in other jet boats. But I quickly learned to back off and ride the wave just as you mentioned. Couldn’t believe it the first few times. Spots that were wet rocks I made it through without hitting. I wouldn’t have believed it was possible if I hadn’t done it myself.

Now add a big 4-stroke like the 40/30 and another person with some gear and they don’t act quite the same. The key is light weight. Millions of vids on YouTube showing Russians going up rivers you would never make it up in a tin can but almost every one of them is running a light-weight 2-stroke.

[mked]

Positrac I've reread your reply multiple times and am still blown away by the amount of knowledgeable information posted. Thank you again for the detailed reply. Made my decision with the 25 mercury. There's a couple of those mercury seapros out east, gonna have to keep my eye open for getting one over. 134lbs for a 25 mercury jet is ridiculously light
Thanks again for all the information everyone!!

[Positrac]

I should also add that I remove the reverse bucket off my small jets. If you hit hard enough the bucket can kick up into neutral then all forward momentum ends. By the time you realized what's happened the motors screaming and you are high and dry. Take the reverse bucket off and the motor pops up when the intake hits something and the bungee stops it from raising too far and helps it get back down fast. Most times its so quick you hardly slow down. I've hit a dozen times in a 100 foot section with no issues.

Riverside Marine in St. Albert had a shipment of Solar boats in a couple months back. Their prices were quite a bit better than anything you could get at Cycle North in Prince George. I've sent a half dozen people to Cycle North that bought boats and I could have walked in off the street at Riverside Marine and paid over a $1,000 less than what I did for my 420 from Cycle North a few month previous.

[ljbb]

Hi i do like posi trac advice and I do have a solar 420 with a yamaha 40/30. I like it a lot but it is heavy.

[Tungsten,]

Ive owned 2 stroke 30/20 and 4 stroke 60/40.
I found you need 10 horse for every 250lbs with small motors.

[canishunter22-250]

Intertesting timing for this thread to come about.

Two weeks ago I found a used Merc 4-Stroke 25 Jet and decided to try it out as an option for my Zodiacs. After experimenting in my dugout and getting it set up right I took it out on the Peace River for two days and was very impressed with what it would do on my 16ft inflatable. I don't have a jet tunnel but was able to run 3 inches of water without trouble.

Compared to props, jets are exhausting to operate on a flat-bottomed inflatable. What positrak said is bang on in my experience. That guy is clearly a wealth of information on this topic. The boat has a mind of its own and it's a battle to keep the thing from ground looping if you aren't paying attention. That being said, they are super cool for getting specific jobs done you'd never dream of with a prop. I look at jets as a cool 'add-on' to a boat but would never want one as my sole outboard.

The 25 Merc does well enough with 2 guys and a couple of sandwiches but I decided that to do the sort of long-haul adventures that excite me I'm going to need a bigger motor. I ended up finding a Yamaha 40-30 that I'm buying tomorrow so I'm quite excited to see how it works out. I'll likely keep the Merc also and run it on my 14ft Zodiac. Should be able to do some great trips with the two boats sharing the load. See if I can train my wife up enough to follow me up the Tuchodi with her boat!

[canishunter22-250]

Originally Posted by Positrac

I should also add that I remove the reverse bucket off my small jets. If you hit hard enough the bucket can kick up into neutral then all forward momentum ends. By the time you realized what's happened the motors screaming and you are high and dry. Take the reverse bucket off and the motor pops up when the intake hits something and the bungee stops it from raising too far and helps it get back down fast. Most times its so quick you hardly slow down. I've hit a dozen times in a 100 foot section with no issues.

Riverside Marine in St. Albert had a shipment of Solar boats in a couple months back. Their prices were quite a bit better than anything you could get at Cycle North in Prince George. I've sent a half dozen people to Cycle North that bought boats and I could have walked in off the street at Riverside Marine and paid over a $1,000 less than what I did for my 420 from Cycle North a few month previous.

Positrac,

Interesting what you say about the reverse buckets. I was already pondering pulling mine off simply because it seems like it would be the first thing to be smashed off.

Where do you source the intakes? I have my aluminum one smashed up a bit already so I figure my next one should be a little more forgiving.

Thanks for all the great info you've added to this thread.

[Positrac]

Originally Posted by canishunter22-250

Positrac,

Interesting what you say about the reverse buckets. I was already pondering pulling mine off simply because it seems like it would be the first thing to be smashed off.

Where do you source the intakes? I have my aluminum one smashed up a bit already so I figure my next one should be a little more forgiving.

Thanks for all the great info you've added to this thread.

The first one I had was a Vezdehod poly intake that I bought through Cycle North in Prince George. It was a pretty heavy duty intake that I hit hundreds of times without hurting it. The intake itself is a bit larger than a stock aluminum intake and the bars are tough to beat up. They last way longer than stock before getting all bent up but are also thicker so despite the intake being slightly bigger there probably isn’t any more water going in it because of the thicker bars. Having a bigger intake with larger surface area seemed to help lift the arse of the boat up just like a trim tab would. Not as pronounced but it did seem to help over stock. The thing I didn’t like about the intake was it was flat on the mounting surface and didn’t have the locating spigot like a stock intake. Being polyurethane when you tightened the mounting bolts it always wanted to pull one way or the other so it was tough to get a tight impeller to liner clearance. You can buy a liner with a spigot out of Russia for this intake but I never did. That would help locate the intake and would stop it from moving when tightening the mounting bolts.

My new poly intake is a Jet Wolfe that I ordered straight out of Russia through EBay. I have a buddy with one and it works well. It was also $150 cheaper than the Vezdehod. It isn’t quite as robust as the Vezdehod but it does have the locating spigot like a stock intake which help to get a close liner to impeller clearance. Bars are heavier than a stock intake too and it is slightly larger than stock but not quite as big as the Vezdehod.

Now that getting stuff out of Russia is tough I’m not sure where a guy could get one. Stock in BC and Alberta has all but dried up over the last 6 months.

[canishunter22-250]

Originally Posted by Positrac

The first one I had was a Vezdehod poly intake that I bought through Cycle North in Prince George. It was a pretty heavy duty intake that I hit hundreds of times without hurting it. The intake itself is a bit larger than a stock aluminum intake and the bars are tough to beat up. They last way longer than stock before getting all bent up but are also thicker so despite the intake being slightly bigger there probably isn’t any more water going in it because of the thicker bars. Having a bigger intake with larger surface area seemed to help lift the arse of the boat up just like a trim tab would. Not as pronounced but it did seem to help over stock. The thing I didn’t like about the intake was it was flat on the mounting surface and didn’t have the locating spigot like a stock intake. Being polyurethane when you tightened the mounting bolts it always wanted to pull one way or the other so it was tough to get a tight impeller to liner clearance. You can buy a liner with a spigot out of Russia for this intake but I never did. That would help locate the intake and would stop it from moving when tightening the mounting bolts.

My new poly intake is a Jet Wolfe that I ordered straight out of Russia through EBay. I have a buddy with one and it works well. It was also $150 cheaper than the Vezdehod. It isn’t quite as robust as the Vezdehod but it does have the locating spigot like a stock intake which help to get a close liner to impeller clearance. Bars are heavier than a stock intake too and it is slightly larger than stock but not quite as big as the Vezdehod.

Now that getting stuff out of Russia is tough I’m not sure where a guy could get one. Stock in BC and Alberta has all but dried up over the last 6 months.

Okay. Thanks for the help. Hopefully I can keep from bashing up my intake too much before the shelves are restocked a bit.