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Old 10-09-2013, 06:09 PM
6tmile 6tmile is offline
 
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Default Wolves wrecking sheep hunting.

Seems like us trappers are getting blamed for all the wolves eating all the big sheep.

Check out the hunting forum under 437 draw, and now their is a poll in the general discussion forum.
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Old 10-09-2013, 06:15 PM
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Originally Posted by 6tmile View Post
Seems like us trappers are getting blamed for all the wolves eating all the big sheep.

Check out the hunting forum under 437 draw, and now their is a poll in the general discussion forum.
Not blaming wolves for the big sheep, but for sure sheep in general!!!!! And at that wolves are being blamed for the decline in most of our biggame species in many areas!!

And yep many see trappers as not pulling their weight on this front. Maybe if you trappers are then shed some facts on what is being harvested for wolves and from what areas. Im sure extra knowledge would be a huge asset.

And the poll should show you trappers the public's opinion on the job they are doing in the way of wolves!!
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Old 10-09-2013, 06:25 PM
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Not blaming wolves for the big sheep, but for sure sheep in general!!!!! And at that wolves are being blamed for the decline in most of our biggame species in many areas!!

And yep many see trappers as not pulling their weight on this front. Maybe if you trappers are then shed some facts on what is being harvested for wolves and from what areas. Im sure extra knowledge would be a huge asset.

And the poll should show you trappers the public's opinion on the job they are doing in the way of wolves!!
there is a trap line up by my house there is literally a wolf highway in the winter down one pipe line the trapper only catches a few martin a year and wont sign on a Jr to help snare wolves. if your not going to use it you should lose it.
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Old 10-09-2013, 06:33 PM
6tmile 6tmile is offline
 
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Originally Posted by sheepguide View Post
Not blaming wolves for the big sheep, but for sure sheep in general!!!!! And at that wolves are being blamed for the decline in most of our biggame species in many areas!!

And yep many see trappers as not pulling their weight on this front. Maybe if you trappers are then shed some facts on what is being harvested for wolves and from what areas. Im sure extra knowledge would be a huge asset.

And the poll should show you trappers the public's opinion on the job they are doing in the way of wolves!!
A fur harvest report is done every year upon licence renewal.
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Old 10-09-2013, 06:51 PM
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[QUOTE=sheepguide;2148102]Not blaming wolves for the big sheep, but for sure sheep in general!!!!! And at that wolves are being blamed for the decline in most of our biggame species in many areas!!

[B]And yep many see trappers as not pulling their weight on this front.

Sheep...maybe your reply should have said...And yep Sheep, myself, and I see trappers as not pulling ...
There is no doubt that wolves can kill a large amount of game if not well-managed. I do not have sheep in my area but have seen what damage they can do to a deer or moose population. That said, it looks like you're venting and pointing fingers at trappers for your own selfish reasons...getting more and bigger sheep on the mountain...while hoping trappers do part of the work for you. If you are so concerned about the wolf population, why not spend less time chasing cats and snowmobiling as you say you do in your area and set out baits or do some calling on your own...to help alleviate a situation you perceive as a problem. To generalize that trappers are not doing enough is putting the blame in the wrong place. I am a hunter and a trapper and I try to hunt and trap both my RFMA and private land as much as possible to reduce wolf and coyote numbers...not only for the fur harvest but also with the big game populations in mind. My harvest usually runs from 4 to 15 wolves a year. That said, wolves are a very smart animal that learn to avoid traps and snares quickly and short of poisoning them, you can't eliminate them. Also, the monetary return for the work involved in both trapping and skinning wolves is quite low compared to other species such as fisher and marten, thus, some trappers don't go after wolves very hard. In my area, you can hunt but not trap wolves as a resident hunter at certain times of the year...even on registered lines. Why not be part of the solution and go take some wolves out yourself? Spend less time starting all these posts venting at trappers and go out there and chase wolves...just saying.
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Old 10-09-2013, 06:58 PM
Brian Bildson Brian Bildson is offline
 
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I don't remember the government hiring me to control wolves? I get to manage my line as i see fit, not cater the agenda of a sheep hunter. I can see how concerned you are about sheep sheephunter so why don't you tell us how many wolves you killed. After all you can legally hunt them as a hunter and apparently you've covered every mile and you're so in tune you know how many are in each pack. How many have you smoked Bwana? Me feels a big hot wind blowing out of the mountains.
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Old 10-09-2013, 07:00 PM
sourdough doug sourdough doug is offline
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Anyone who thinks that it is wolves that are the only ones depleting the sheep population must be snorting powdered sheep shat. Sheep habitat is not one that is readily suited to garnering food for wolves. That is not to say that it does not occur but is certainly the exception. Their food source is much more readily where the deer and such are located and more of them as well. And to think that trappers can make any difference in wolf numbers, knows nothing of trapping these animals. There are those that are quite successful in taking wolves but are the exception.. Even bounties are not the answer.
If, supposedly, it is the wolves doing this damage, well surely then, they must have been spotted by those sheep hunters. If this were the case, did these sheep hunters, do what was required of them and harvest a wolf instead.....I doubt it....
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Old 10-09-2013, 09:42 PM
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Lets not forget about cougars. I don't have any stats but I am sure they kill as many if not more sheep than wolves
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Old 10-10-2013, 09:40 AM
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Some of you guys should post on that thread over in Hunting....
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Old 10-10-2013, 09:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Brian Bildson View Post
I don't remember the government hiring me to control wolves? I get to manage my line as i see fit, not cater the agenda of a sheep hunter. I can see how concerned you are about sheep sheephunter so why don't you tell us how many wolves you killed. After all you can legally hunt them as a hunter and apparently you've covered every mile and you're so in tune you know how many are in each pack. How many have you smoked Bwana? Me feels a big hot wind blowing out of the mountains.
I have to agree,if you have been able to determine how many wolves are arround,then you should of been able to thin them down a little yourself instead of casting yonis else where, me thinks them big cats do more to sheep populations then wolves ever would,IMO
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Old 10-10-2013, 10:01 AM
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Im a huge fan of the trappers way of life, have my trappers licence and have been a junior on a line. Work, life, and kids have moved me away from that lifestyle but I do keep my nose in it. I would hazard a guess that for every trapper that actively traps their line, for the entire range of fur available, there are as many that many that use it as their recreational property.
There are some that do it because it's in their blood and its what drives them, then there are some that do it to be able to quad in, where its horse access only, and watch the game on their 60 inch plasma tv with their buddies.
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Old 10-10-2013, 10:02 AM
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Originally Posted by PCP_ECOM View Post
I have to agree,if you have been able to determine how many wolves are arround,then you should of been able to thin them down a little yourself instead of casting yonis else where, me thinks them big cats do more to sheep populations then wolves ever would,IMO
Not hard to determine how many wolves in an area without actually seeing the wolves themselves or being presented with an opportunity to harvest many!
And yep cats do take a few but cats don't run in packs and the same area that will hold 20 wolves will only carry a couple cats so that's pretty simple math on what affects populations more.

And as far as cats go hunter are pretty much doing 100% of what they can on that front.
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Old 10-10-2013, 10:24 AM
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Not hard to determine how many wolves in an area without actually seeing the wolves themselves or being presented with an opportunity to harvest many!
And yep cats do take a few but cats don't run in packs and the same area that will hold 20 wolves will only carry a couple cats so that's pretty simple math on what affects populations more.

And as far as cats go hunter are pretty much doing 100% of what they can on that front.

So, if wolves are a bigger problem than cats...and sheep and cat hunters are supposedly much better outdoorsmen than us trappers "who are screwing the pooch"( as you put it in the other thread) lol, why doesn't your sheep and cat group go out and try to take some wolves out? In my area, a resident hunter may go out on a general license and hunt and harvest(but not trap or snare) wolves over bait...even on registered traplines...must be the same in your WMU. Also wondering...have you approached any of the local trappers to see if they would take you on as a junior...with your sole purpose to reduce wolf numbers? If the trappers on your end aren't interested in harvesting wolves, these same trappers probably wouldn't mind if you target just the wolves. Have you approached or asked anyone...just curious as to what their response was.
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Old 10-10-2013, 10:45 AM
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So, if wolves are a bigger problem than cats...and sheep and cat hunters are supposedly much better outdoorsmen than us trappers "who are screwing the pooch"( as you put it in the other thread) lol, why doesn't your sheep and cat group go out and try to take some wolves out? In my area, a resident hunter may go out on a general license and hunt and harvest(but not trap or snare) wolves over bait...even on registered traplines...must be the same in your WMU. Also wondering...have you approached any of the local trappers to see if they would take you on as a junior...with your sole purpose to reduce wolf numbers? If the trappers on your end aren't interested in harvesting wolves, these same trappers probably wouldn't mind if you target just the wolves. Have you approached or asked anyone...just curious as to what their response was.
I asked a trapper a few years back in one area I hunt lots and he said he had a partner and wouldn't take just anyone on that he doesn't know anyways because how do you know their ethics or if hes trustworthy. I'm sure this goes with most trappers. Are you gunna sign up just joe blow because he asks to trap wolves?

As for hunters getting out. Some do. I do a fair bit. Have only baited a couple years. Got a couple but most at my sites were nocturnal. Pretty tough hunting them then. Mostly I call. Again with a few harvests but still fairly minimal success. You see far more than you ever get a poke at.

One big limiting factors with sheep country and why sheep hunters in particular wish trappers did more is because hunters have no access. Two feet of snow and -20 it's pretty tough backpacking or bringing horses in but trappers have full run on sleds or Atvs.
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Old 10-10-2013, 10:52 AM
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Anyone can own a sled or a quad. Wolves are about as easy to trap as they are to hunt!! I try but only gotten 1 so far!
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Old 10-10-2013, 10:53 AM
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This should get interesting. Obviously some people have no idea how much work is involved with trapping wolves in the "hard to get to" places in the world, or trapping in general for that matter. By not focusing on Marten, it is kind of like driving by a hundred dollar bill to pick bottles every day that may or may not be there. Wolves are trapped, but seldom the focus of any trapper (though there are a select few).
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Old 10-10-2013, 11:15 AM
sheepguide sheepguide is offline
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Anyone can own a sled or a quad. Wolves are about as easy to trap as they are to hunt!! I try but only gotten 1 so far!
Your very true on the sled and Atvs I have both but if you understood the West Country even a little you would know most sheep hunting areas are closed to motorized vehicles for outdoor users. But registered trappers can still access these areas via atv or sled. See what I'm saying now??
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Old 10-10-2013, 11:23 AM
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Originally Posted by sheepguide View Post
I asked a trapper a few years back in one area I hunt lots and he said he had a partner and wouldn't take just anyone on that he doesn't know anyways because how do you know their ethics or if hes trustworthy. I'm sure this goes with most trappers. Are you gunna sign up just joe blow because he asks to trap wolves?

As for hunters getting out. Some do. I do a fair bit. Have only baited a couple years. Got a couple but most at my sites were nocturnal. Pretty tough hunting them then. Mostly I call. Again with a few harvests but still fairly minimal success. You see far more than you ever get a poke at.

One big limiting factors with sheep country and why sheep hunters in particular wish trappers did more is because hunters have no access. Two feet of snow and -20 it's pretty tough backpacking or bringing horses in but trappers have full run on sleds or Atvs
.
I agree with you on that aspect Sheepguide...wolves are amongst the toughest animals to purposefully go out and make an effort to harvest by hunting. So what makes you think it is any different while trying to do it by trapping methods? Over the past few years, I have harvested apprxly. 20 by hunting and apprxly. another 30 by snaring...and in doing so, have realized they are one smart animal that learns quickly that he is being pursued...and will react and evade accordingly. But it can be done...so my reccomendation is go out and do it...be part of the solution yourself.
My wise old Dad used to say...if you sit on the sidelines and do nothing but complain...you are part of the problem, not part of the solution.
And also, I don't follow the "hunters have no access" part? Hunters don't own snowmobiles???? I'm not picking on you...just don't understand this reasoning. Get or borrow yourself a sled, go out there and get you some wolves...seems simple enough to me.
And you mentioned talking to one trapper???? That area holds only one senior trapper??? Did you attempt to talk to others??? If you feel so strongly about the matter, it seems you would have talked to every trapper and seeked out all possibilities. If they are not receptive, clearly explain what you are trying to accomplish and promise to meet up after the season to review your success. The signing up of a junior is renewed every year so if they don't like you, they are not obliged to re-sign you...present that to them also.
As I explained on my first post on this thread, wolves are a hard animal to harvest and most trappers will spend more time and effort with smaller animals such as marten and fisher...not much difference in money earned for much less effort. Much easier to haul out 10 marten, skin, flesh and board them...than do the same with 10 wolves. That said, some of us still do it. I encourage you to try to do the same. If you feel so strongly about the wolf issue, you will find a way...
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Old 10-10-2013, 11:28 AM
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Hey Sheep,
Hmmm...just read what you posted on OHV use in your area. I didn't know that...now I do. I still recommend the approaching as many local trappers as you can and explaining your purpose...all while being as professional and courteous as possible. You never know...some might be receptive.
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Old 10-10-2013, 11:34 AM
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I agree with you on that aspect Sheepguide...wolves are amongst the toughest animals to purposefully go out and make an effort to harvest by hunting. So what makes you think it is any different while trying to do it by trapping methods? Over the past few years, I have harvested apprxly. 20 by hunting and apprxly. another 30 by snaring...and in doing so, have realized they are one smart animal that learns quickly that he is being pursued...and will react and evade accordingly. But it can be done...so my reccomendation is go out and do it...be part of the solution yourself.
No I do not think hunting and trapping are any different and both groups need to pull their weight.
I agree, and every chance I get im out there doing what I can. I run predator cats for the first few months of winter and im trying to help with an effort to get more cat quotas in sheep habitat then once cat hunting is don i hit the trails when work doesnt call and try my best to do what I can.

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And also, I don't follow the "hunters have no access" part? Hunters don't own snowmobiles???? I'm not picking on you...just don't understand this reasoning. Get or borrow yourself a sled, go out there and get you some wolves...seems simple enough to me.
Again since most dont seem to know most sheep WMU's do not allow offroad vehicle access to outdoor users other that the registered trap line owner.

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And you mentioned talking to one trapper???? That area holds only one senior trapper??? Did you attempt to talk to others??? If you feel so strongly about the matter, it seems you would have talked to every trapper and seeked out all possibilities. If they are not receptive, clearly explain what you are trying to accomplish and promise to meet up after the season to review your success. The signing up of a junior is renewed every year so if they don't like you, they are not obliged to re-sign you...present that to them also.
I agree and if I had enough time now to contribute and actually put in an honest effort I would be pushing trappers to let me help in any way I can. But unfortunately the northern oil patch seem to be busiest at the same time trapping is. So for now I have to rely on those with the measures to actually help in this worsening problem.

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As I explained on my first post on this thread, wolves are a hard animal to harvest and most trappers will spend more time and effort with smaller animals such as marten and fisher...not much difference in money earned for much less effort. Much easier to haul out 10 marten, skin, flesh and board them...than do the same with 10 wolves. That said, some of us still do it. I encourage you to try to do the same. If you feel so strongly about the wolf issue, you will find a way...
Like I said I do what I can with the time I can.
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Old 10-10-2013, 11:41 AM
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How many people have skinned a wolf!....

Probably the stinkiest of critters....

Anyways guys be careful... trappers do what they can and hunters do what they can where they can....

Lets not get antagonistic towards our fellow outdoorsman....

How would you feel if you are told... burn more gas so that gas prices go up so that i can make more money!....

Last edited by nekred; 10-10-2013 at 12:07 PM.
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Old 10-10-2013, 11:49 AM
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How many people have skinned a wolf!....

Probably the stinkiest of critters....

Anyways guys be careful... trappers do what they can and hunters do what they can where they can....

Lets not get antagonistic towrad sour fellow outdoorsman....

How would you feel if you are told... burn more gas so that gas prices go up so that i can make more money!....
Good points but I think the problem that is affecting many peoples perspective on trappers are the lines being unused or very under utilized. When You go into an area and the only skidoo tracks go on a direct path to the cabin and no where else on the line its a little hard to praise trappers. Like was stated there are some that do a great job and love the life but thats getting outnumbered by the bad apples in this day and age.
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Old 10-10-2013, 12:05 PM
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"Like I said I do what I can with the time I can"- Sheepguide

Exactly Sheep...you and everyone else...including us trappers. You have to remember...that for most trappers nowdays...trapping supplements a tiny bit (if any at all when you weigh against expenses) to another regular job and income. I respect greatly how strongly you feel about your sheep hunting...I sometimes have concerns about how predators, general wildlife management, subsistence hunting, etc.,etc, all affect the deer and moose hunting in my part of the world. That said, I go out and do what I can also...shoot and trap as many wolves and yotes as possible, participate in public meetings discussing game management, etc.,etc..
What I did not appreciate was your combative approach to the issue...blaming trappers who are "screwing the pooch", venting your misinformed propaganda in two different threads, and even starting a new thread with a poll discussing trappers, effectiveness. If you are not a trapper, you can not possibly know the whole story...it just seems you are stirring the pot without a spoon...so to speak.
You mentioned you work in the oil industry...very important job provider for many of my friends and family here in Alberta. Yet, I do not always like or agree what the oil industry does to our wild areas and traplines. You do not see me get on my soapbox, start venting my uneducated opinions regarding the oil industry...nor do I start public opinion polls on the oil sector with no intelligent reason behind it other than to stir the pot.
I am not picking a fight or looking to start an argument...just asking you to be more respectful towards other outdoorsmen (and Outdoorswomen) groups in your comments. You are not the only person that cares about our resources...and there are many that are trying (in their own way and with the time and money they can afford) to make a difference. ALWAYS KEEP THAT IN MIND the next time before you spout off about a topic you do not have all the info on...just saying
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Old 10-10-2013, 02:20 PM
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Originally Posted by sheepguide View Post
Not blaming wolves for the big sheep, but for sure sheep in general!!!!! And at that wolves are being blamed for the decline in most of our biggame species in many areas!!

And yep many see trappers as not pulling their weight on this front. Maybe if you trappers are then shed some facts on what is being harvested for wolves and from what areas. Im sure extra knowledge would be a huge asset.

And the poll should show you trappers the public's opinion on the job they are doing in the way of wolves!!
Trappers aren't pulling their weight? I would expect that the guys with the most to lose from wolf predation against sheep, SHEEP HUNTING OUTFITTERS AND GUIDES, would be the ones out there doing something. Why would you expect others to ensure that your business remains viable. If you don't want to get out there with a rifle and get after the wolves perhaps as a group you could contract some trappers to address your problem.

And Sheepguide, honestly, not trying to be snarky. Just seems like you guys should be the ones taking action if it's impacting your livelihood. Perhaps you are and I just don't know it.
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Old 10-10-2013, 02:37 PM
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Trappers aren't pulling their weight? I would expect that the guys with the most to lose from wolf predation against sheep, SHEEP HUNTING OUTFITTERS AND GUIDES, would be the ones out there doing something. Why would you expect others to ensure that your business remains viable. If you don't want to get out there with a rifle and get after the wolves perhaps as a group you could contract some trappers to address your problem.

And Sheepguide, honestly, not trying to be snarky. Just seems like you guys should be the ones taking action if it's impacting your livelihood. Perhaps you are and I just don't know it.
Some Ourfitters do! Some are registered trappers in their aread and a few take winter wolf hunts. As well some run dogs to control cat populations so they do do their part.

No actually we shouldn't. All people in the outdoors should be helping. Like I said trappers want nothing to do with helping the wolf population issues than maybe wolves should be open to anyone to trap. These a good number of guys that would go out to just trap wolves just for a hobby. I know a couple that do now on private land and would give anything to in the West Country but are restricted because trappers have some rights to trap wolves there.
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Old 10-10-2013, 03:11 PM
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sounds like you know some trappers that are trapping wolves. i'm confused. the amount of time you've been bashing trappers the last few days. you could of yourself got outside and contributed. instead of complaining on the internet.
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Old 10-10-2013, 03:15 PM
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sounds like you know some trappers that are trapping wolves. i'm confused. the amount of time you've been bashing trappers the last few days. you could of yourself got outside and contributed. instead of complaining on the internet.
Called sitting at work bud!! If I could be outside instead of stuck on a bombing range that has had zero hunting in 50+ years babysitting a drilling rig I would be!! Week to go and ill be out there!!
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Old 10-10-2013, 03:25 PM
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i don't know of many others that continually upset people like you do sheepguide. trappers are probably the hardest working sportsman and i would think you can choose you comments and posts more carefully and show a little more respect.
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Old 10-10-2013, 03:43 PM
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i don't know of many others that continually upset people like you do sheepguide. trappers are probably the hardest working sportsman and i would think you can choose you comments and posts more carefully and show a little more respect.
Some are yes! Many aren't. So a whole to me the trapping industry has a big black cloud over it!

And I guess if bringing up important topics hurts people's feeling and they don't like it because of how I word things the must have a pretty hard time in life!! Ill keep posting as I do thanks for your concern though!
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Old 10-10-2013, 04:03 PM
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Is it just me??? I am having a hard time following your reasoning process SG. You have made comments in earlier posts such as "trappers are not pulling their weight"...and then 2 posts ago... "some are registered trappers...so they do their part" What??????? So...trappers who aren't also outfitters are not real trappers? Or...oufitters who trap are the only type of trappers who know enough about animal behavior to be an effective trapper?
Also, at the end of your posts, you have a quote..."I hunt sheep to see over the next mountain not to measure the next trophy". Doesn't this quote contradict almost every post you made the last 24 hours...comments that "Alberta is not the sheep mecca it used to be" and other comments that state that "squeaker rams" might not be the goal for serious sheep hunters.It just seems you are interested in more and bigger sheep than your quote says.
Once again, I am not looking to argue with you for argument's sake. I do find it admirable you feel so strongly about a topic that affects Alberta and its wildlife...but I can't find any consistency in your posts. It seems you post and state what's "in your craw" at that particular moment...without first thinking it through or wondering how you are maybe "targeting" other "wildlife stakeholders". Then, you spend a great deal of time defending your views and your position...all the while contradicting yourself. I do find your posts and your views interesting and entertaining, but would like to see you bring more facts and fewer contradictions to the table. Nothing wrong with feeling strongly about a topic...we need to be outspoken on issues that are relevant to the outdoor pastimes we care so much about. But in the future, please think first, post second, bring actual substantiated facts, and respect other outdoor groups in your comments.
And if you ever do find a way in the system that will allow you to reduce those wolf numbers...and you need a hand...feel free to contact me.I will never pass down an opportunity to be in our great outdoors and would definitely drive a few hours to give you a hand.
Good hunting.
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