Wolf Cull/ Poisioning in AB

[KegRiver]

Originally Posted by husky7mm

, also keg river what's to say they don't imply the best practices for applying the poison?

I take it you mean employ, not imply.

I have no doubt that they are using "their" best practices. Best practice is simply a way of saying they are following government policy. Polices that are all too often set by people who have no field experience, no understanding of the issues.
There IS a better way and they aren't using it.

From what I'm hearing they are getting far far too many non target kills, unnecessarily. Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't that irresponsible?

To be fair I would object even if they were using this poison correctly.
I followed my dad as he checked his baits. I've seen what it does. In my opinion there is no place in this world for such a medieval killing method.
Especially when there are other less destructive, less inhuman ways of reducing Wolf numbers.

If trapping were really profitable trappers would control the Wolf numbers.
But with the prices these days, of fuel, equipment, consumables, and the relatively low returns for harvested hides, for most, trapping is little more then an expensive hobby or at best a low paying part time job.

Had the government supported us in our battle with the anti trapping movement, trapping as a way of life would not have died and we would not be having this conversation.

Trappers then and now do not have the resources to fight court battles with the well funded anti trappers. We were and are too few and too isolated to form a united front against such a foe. Our only hope was that our government would come to our aid, like they aid the auto industry or the oil and gas industry, but they turned a deaf ear to us.

All we needed was for someone to get the truth out telling what trapping was really about to counter the anti trapping propaganda portraying all trappers as blood thirsty killers. Instead, our government caved in to the antis demands to make trapping much more difficult.

The results were predictable. A lot of trappers left the bush to take the only option available to them. A job in town.
We are now reaping the benefits of that movement. But this is only the beginning.
Yes the wolf population is exploding. That's what happens when another animal is left uncontrolled due to a government decision.

When the firearms registry was implemented a good many hunters gave away their rifles and headed off to the butcher shop. Deer populations exploded and with them, Wolf populations. With no trappers to slow the Wolf explosion and fewer hunters to reduce the Deer numbers it was inevitable that we wind up where we are today.
The government's solution? Kill everything in sight, at taxpayers expense.

What concerns me even more, is that this is only the beginning. Animal populations don't change instantly. Problems often take years to surface.

First comes population explosions, then comes property damage, habitat destruction, disease, extinctions, and as we see, bungled efforts by government to control the situation by themselves.

We've seen the collapse of the Trapping industry, the Walleye fishery and others, all supposedly managed by a government department that was supposed to know what they are doing.

And we are supposed to believe that this same government department knows how to use one of the most destructive, long lasting, inhuman poisons know to man?

What will happen when the next Rabies plaque hits this province? It will hit again you know, it's only a matter of time.

You think Chronic Wasting Disease is scary? It's tame in comparison to a Rabies outbreak.

What will OUR government do when peoples lives are in danger. When pets and livestock are threatened on a massive scale?

I can tell you what they'll do. Like the last time it happened they well quickly realize that they can not deal with it themselves and like the last time they will hand out Strychnine to anyone willing to put out baits.
They will hand it out to people who have no idea how to use it properly or safely, just like they did last time. And like last time they will offer no training because they themselves don't know how to use it properly.

And like they did up at Fort Simpson a few years ago, they will kill everything that walks. They will wipe the slate clean.

When I was a kid there was no Marten, no Fox, no Otter in this whole area. Zero, not one. Fisher were just starting to make a comeback. They had all disappeared with the Rabies plague in the early 1950s. Wiped out by the disease and the indiscriminate use of Strychnine.

That folks is where we are headed. I've seen it, I've lived through it.
I wasn't old enough to remember the plaque itself but I sure remember the aftermath. I've held Strychnine in my hand. I've talked first hand with those who it was handed out to like it was candy.
I watched the animals slowly return. One at a time, over decades.

But that was a different world. There were no seismic lines, no paved highways, no vast expanses of wheat fields in the north.
Much of the north was still untouched wilderness, seen only by a few trappers and a few lucky government agents.

It was a land of vast flocks of Ducks and Fish so numerous a kid could catch all he could handle in a couple of hours. The swamps had not yet been drained to make wheat fields, the rivers had no pulp mills on them.
In the fall we could hunt all week and never see another hunter we did not know. No one owned a quad or a four-by-four. We hunted on foot or on horseback and we hunted close to home.
There was vast tracts of land where a large animal could live out it's life without ever coming in contact with a human or any human development.

Today there isn't a square inch of this vast country that does not feel the touch of man's hand. The remaining habitat is fragmented and under threat of development or exploration.

What will happen if some self governed self taught entity indiscriminately spreads poison throughout that fragmented habitat?
How many species will be wiped out this time. How long will it take them to recover, if they ever recover?

I doubt very much that I'll be around to see it happen or to live with the results. It's very very unlikely that I will survive ten more years.
I'm sixty years old and my health is rapidly declining.

What about you? Will you be around? Do you care? How about your kids, do you want them to live in a world devoid of many of the animals you grew up with?

[RockyMountainMusic]

I was hoping for people like you Keg to share on this thread with your knowledge and experience..... I hope enough people will fight back you will see positive changes still in your life so people can enjoy what we have!

[RockyMountainMusic]

Originally Posted by waterninja

Thanks Rocky for bringing these topics forward on this forum, and for copying your letters and and the responces you got.
Must be very frustrating to yourself and everyone involved, when you set out clear grievances you have in a concise and ordered way, only to get a general responce back that really doesen't say anything or address a lot of your questions. Sounds like they don't really take you or your concerns seriously while at the same time patting themselves on the back.
From your letters it sounds like some of the measures they are taking would normally be illegal (heli pilots collecting wolfs to sell in B.C.) and others just downright stupid and unethical eg. poisening baits, not using roadkill, not to mention very costly.
On the other hand i can see why you are being ignored or just paid lip service, as the ruling Govt. must get enormous compaign funds and other monies from lumber, gas, oil, and energy companies, so there requests naturally supercede yours.

Thank you.... Sadly your right but we can either fight back or give up and lose everything we care about!

[Liberman]

Originally Posted by husky7mm

I heard it was working great an the caribou had stopped declining. There is a cost for all this but long term spin off should be good. The wolf population is exploding all over the province and the ungulates are decreasing. Not many trapper specifically no how to target wolves. Many own trap lines just to have a cabin on crown land. There is always a cost for progress. If your going to have industry and we will and need to it creates allot of connectivity and you need predator management to keep things in balance. Wolves don't self regulate their population they increase until the starve or die from internal strife. Areas that that has happened in are void of almost any game for years and years. Good on the government for taking on such a dirty tasks in today's mindset.

I have been following the caribou decline and wolf cull for several years on this forum but primarily through academic papers and comments. It's been brought forward several times here and in the magazine by trappers etc. and now finally by an academic that knows what he is talking about.

What happens? 7mm heard it's working great and the long term spin off will be good. Explain that? Good on the government for taking on exactly what Stewart says isn't working and then accuses him of just trying to land a government contract.

Then there is the call for wolf control or management or some other manipulation of their numbers. It's been stated time and time again by credible people here and elsewhere THERE IS NO SUCH THING, yet this still underlies much of the thinking. The ongoing cull has proven it every year for nine years. But hunters and trappers can do what choppers and strychnine can't do: and yes it is strychnine!!!

Somebody else says bounties or incentives are all that's needed to manage wolf numbers. More BS proven a hundred times over. You are not going to control or "manage" wolves on any scale larger than a chicken pen because it is cost prohibitive, environmentally unacceptable, and publically repugnant so get used to the idea of living with more wolves just as you have deer and coyotes. The sooner this happens the sooner progress can be made.

Why is the debate about wolves? Isn't nine years of senseless killing enough? Why not move on and find out what is causing the problem, after all industry has got all they want there anyway, there is nothing left for caribou.

I can tell you one thing Stewart is not going to argue black is white or take kindly to being accused of only trying to access the public and industry trough.

If you guys care a dam about caribou or other wildlife maybe WAKE UP.

[husky7mm]

Whoa, first post ...... Agenda ?

[husky7mm]

Very recently there was a transplant of caribou from dease lake to the Purcell mts near Kimberly bc. They were all collared and tracked. The last time I remember getting an update most had been killed by cougars. The Cougars beat the wolves to the caribou. The transplant unfortunately was not a success.

[Matt L.]

Originally Posted by husky7mm

Whoa, first post ...... Agenda ?

Maybe he does and maybe he doesn't, but what he says is true. It seems a lot of people are so caught up in this wolves are bad thing they can't, or won't, see anything else.

[shelby1]

There are so many things wrong with this program. You can never win a battle against nature. Wolves are territorial. as soon as you wipe out the wolves in an area a new breeding pair will move in They tried wiping out the wolves in BC and in the Northwest Territories a few years .ago. The people that ran the programs both said later it was a big mistake and a waste of time and money.
Most people are not aware that the program includes wiping out the moose and elk in the area as well as the wolves by way of culling through hunters. Since 2006 they have allowed thousands of extra tags in 352 and 353 and the plan is to actually wipe out these two species because they say if there are no moose and elk the wolves wont hang around.
Instead of trying to wipe out the wolves why not manage them by way of trappers. It would require an incentive but would be much cheaper than the hundreds of thousands it is costing tax payers now. And the wolves will not go to waste.
It can snow one foot overnight in this area and they check the poison baits once a week. They have no idea how many non target animals are being killed.
If we want to actually save the little smoky herd we must stop industry in the winter feeding grounds if its not too late. Not stop industry but stop in some areas.
Not just for the Caribou but for for all of our enviroment we must start thinking about the future of our animals and our wild Alberta. Is money more important

[KegRiver]

Originally Posted by Liberman

Why is the debate about wolves? Isn't nine years of senseless killing enough? Why not move on and find out what is causing the problem, after all industry has got all they want there anyway, there is nothing left for caribou.

What's causing the problem is easy enough to understand.

From a Wolfs prospective it's food. Plain and simple. More food more Wolves, less food less Wolves. It's natures way with ALL species.

From a Government prospective it's public opinion. In other words, votes.
All elected governments care only about votes, getting in and staying in power.

Hunters want more Deer, the government makes a halfhearted effort to enhance Deer populations. Hunters want less Wolves, government takes the easy route to reducing Wolf numbers. The public want Caribou, government does what it thinks will work to protect Caribou numbers.

Anything to get votes. Hunters are a large, politically involved demographic.
Trappers are a minute, mostly uninvolved politically, demographic.

Industry wants access to natural resources. Industry is very politically involved and has deep pockets.

Industry wins. Hunters get some of what they want and trappers get ignored.

The end result, fragmented habitat, conflicting government programs and wildlife populations way off balance.

The solution? I don't know.

We have altered the environment too much for natural controls to work. Governments never have and never will be able to manage wildlife numbers, they can't even manage their own affairs never mind something as complicated as nature.

They underfund their own departments in order to spend money on buying votes. They swamp their field personnel with needless rules and paperwork.
They play petty games with programs and departments.

They are top heavy micro managing fools who think they can play God. But they can't even keep their hands in their own pockets. Or keep their promises. They are so full of themselves they won't listen to those who know. Not even when those people who know were hired by that government.

How can they manage our wildlife when they can't even decide which party they should belong to? Anything to get a vote.

I see a day when Canada is just like Europe. Where wildlife is managed by and for the rich and powerful. Where the common man has no say and no opportunity.

I think we can delay the inevitable, by getting informed and getting involved.
One thing I'm absolutely sure of, we won't manage it by fighting among ourselves or by shrill uninformed campaigns such as the antis favor.

[nicaragua]

If anyone suggested I was trying to access a trough they obviously have no idea who I am-lol- I have learned a lot from the forum-actally surprised how inflexible many are-as if wolves evolved to p*as some folks off. The story I tell is rather simple and is supported in 25-30 years of good science sorry that people r not more open but that is not my business?- and really most biologists hate controversy. I can only chase truth and to find it u need to research read and critically think way to easy to blame wolves

[nicaragua]

Hey let us all look for truth- that is the essence of science- here is an idea -- I give u information and u read it and then we discuss - and come with an open mind and leave with wisdom there r govt guys here because they love wildlife. And that puts them in my good books

[Red Bullets]

Thank you to Mr. Stewart for your dedication and knowledge. It opens a good dialogue rather than just aimless rants.

[Red Bullets]

IMO only...please don't tear me apart for my opinion. It is from my own observations for almost 60 years in Alberta.

Whether it is bears, wolves, cougars, oil, man or habitat fragmentation, the caribou herds have been in decline for many years. I have read that the last big caribou migration in NE alberta was in 1951. Before and since that time the calf predation has been consistant...predation has always been there. The only thing that has varied over time is the habitat fragmentation, deforestation and increased human activity.
Studies of woodland caribou in Alberta show that a caribou will avoid a clear cut and land disturbances by 1.2 km. on average.
( ftp://142.36.245.138/.virtual/smtftp...Smith.etal.pdf )

Over the past several decades the logging has been busy cutting and industry has been busy making roads, leases and pipeline/fracking cutlines. The recreational users are buzzing all over the place with little restraint too.

Our boreal forests have been fragmented and cut down which will effect caribou migration/calving patterns and the roads, cutlines, quad/sled trails and cutblocks increase the ability for predators to access the ungulates.

So there is no logic to killing all the wolves or bears or cougars. The more logical thing would be for industry and people to start reducing and/or reclaiming land disturbances. Predator populations will cycle naturally, just like the lynx/rabbit cycles have done over the centuries.

Efforts should be put towards reclaiming/reforesting those areas that have been effecting our caribou's natural patterns. If we don't manage the land properly how can we begin to manage animal populations? The focus should be on managing our lands and land use. Not trying to manage the animals so much.

The google earthengine TimeLapse project shows the deforestation and fragmentation that has taken place in the last 30 years. You can zoom in and scroll to anywhere in the province and see the destruction year by year.

https://earthengine.google.org/timel...timelapse/data


footnote:
30 years ago I used to see a few woodland caribou in brazeau country 40-50 miles from Drayton Valley. Wonder if there are still any there?

50 years ago I also witnessed a mule deer migration (with at least 300 animals walking single file) just 45 minutes from Edmonton. It wasn't wolves or bears that changed those larger migrations. It was the farm, fence, deforestation/drying up of the parklands and overharvesting by hunters. And just 120 years ago there were millions of passenger pigeons here in central Alberta. Man was responsible for their demise too. 140 years ago there were still great numbers of buffalo, antelope, elk, mulies, caribou, prairie grizzly, wolves, etc.. Man was pretty much responsible for those declines too.
Now we have more and more people coming here and harvesting more wildlife and disturbing more habitats. We need to re-think almost everything we think we know regarding keeping our lands and wildlife intact for more than a generation or two. Not just wolves, and bears.

I am not discrediting Mr. Stewarts efforts regarding shifting blame to bears moreso than wolves on caribou and ungulate predation. I just think the process has to go beyond the predators.

[dsh352]

Red bullets is correct. Habitat protection is very important. I think most biologists would agree that short term predator management is necessary but it must be done with some habitat protection. Otherwise we are just wasting time and lots of taxpayers money. Both need to happen. Unfortunately the GOA is reluctant to reduce any habitat loss because it revolves around money. They don't want to put the brakes on any industry because it might cost them some revenue. They would rather say they are trying and instead waste our money on an ineffective short term solution. Kill everything and protect nothing.
I always thought the GOA was working to protect the environment for natures sake not for revenue only. I'm realizing I'm wrong

[husky7mm]

When a collared predator eats the last collared caribou here in Alberta then we can start making high voltage shock decoys for muledeer and then for moose cause they're next. Non of these animals are dying of malnutrition they are being ate. We are in a predator pit, and yes thanks to man!
The young are not all that predators eat they are just the first. I see the merit of your non leathal research but you will need 1000s of decoys and 1000s of people to babysit them all over the province as the caribou are just the weaker species and the first to go they have been fading away for decades. The province is changing, and yes at a cost to wildlife. Change is natural and so is advancing, unfortunately it's been happening at a greedy pace.
Would a few million free ranging Buffalo fit in today down on the prairies? How about 1000s of Grizzlies for a the Calgarians?

[bdub]

Originally Posted by nicaragua

Hey let us all look for truth- that is the essence of science- here is an idea -- I give u information and u read it and then we discuss - and come with an open mind and leave with wisdom there r govt guys here because they love wildlife. And that puts them in my good books

Thanks for your knowledge and the information posted.

If it is bears preying on caribou calves, which I believe 100%, how many do you think we need to remove to make a difference on calf survival to see an increase the caribou herd? From what I've noticed from working and hunting in the area and talking to others who also spend hundreds of days a year in the area is that grizzly numbers are very, very high.

Do you think the government would consider the research and use it to support reinstating a grizzly hunt to help the caribou or is it a hopeless cause in your opinion? Do we know where the caribou calve and could we target bears just in that area or would that be unworkable?

I believe they also use the area as a dumping ground for problem bears from other areas so that can't be helping.

[Liberman]

Originally Posted by bdub

Thanks for your knowledge and the information posted.

If it is bears preying on caribou calves, which I believe 100%, how many do you think we need to remove to make a difference on calf survival to see an increase the caribou herd? From what I've noticed from working and hunting in the area and talking to others who also spend hundreds of days a year in the area is that grizzly numbers are very, very high.

Do you think the government would consider the research and use it to support reinstating a grizzly hunt to help the caribou or is it a hopeless cause in your opinion? Do we know where the caribou calve and could we target bears just in that area or would that be unworkable?

I believe they also use the area as a dumping ground for problem bears from other areas so that can't be helping.

My god! what's happened? the last few posts have been excellent. And 7mm, you bring up a solid point regarding aversive conditioning to keep bear predation down. Sometimes conditioning teaches predators not to eat the animal, but the "kill the prey response" is still so great the animal is killed anyway. This is conditioning them with lithium chloride which makes them violently sick when eaten which is different than the shock treatment proposed which would allow them to associate bad things by just touching the prey. This approach should be investigated because the potential has been demonstrated. This would also bring out the weaknesses and potential to improve and mitigate the issues.

Bottom line as everyone recognizes is habitat and land use practices but somehow we have to maintain caribou until values change. Eternal optimist.

[Big Grey Wolf]

I enjoyed Mr. Stewarts scientific approach to cariboo, also highly respect both Kegs and Reds input. I am a hunter and trapper and similar vintage to Keg. I remember the days when we could hunt cariboo. The wolves would wake up about 4;00PM and start howling and tell the cariboo the games are on for tonight. Every second cariboo would have a wolf track following it in the Notikewin country. What chance do you have to survive if you need to outrun a wolf every other night. So folks dont tell me the wolf is not a preditor of cariboo. However I do agree the black bear and grizzly kill most of the calves.
The problem is habitat, poision will not solve the problem.

[KegRiver]

Ask a Caribou and it would say, Bears are a problem, Wolves are a problem, Cougar are a problem, but the biggest problem of them all is man.

Of course killing off all the Wolves would not solve "the" problem and it certainly wouldn't be good for nature as a whole.

Not science, just my personal opinion forged from sixty years of living and working in the north, including trapping.

We will not save the Caribou no matter what we do. They may survive over the long term but if they do it will be despite our efforts to protect them.
However, I think they will disappear from the wild just like the Plains Bison did, and for much the same reasons.

I really don't think mankind knows enough to understand the full scope of the interplay between species, the weather, the habitat and mankind.

There was a time when seeing a Moose anywhere near Edmonton would have been strange indeed. It was understood that Moose were creatures of the Forests, not of the Parklands. Now they are well established in the area.

We are told that Woodland Caribou are creatures of the old growth forests and Muskegs of the Boreal Forest. That they do not tolerate human activity in their habitat yet I know of one small herd, less then a dozen I believe, that has lived for at least a couple of decades in a small muskeg surrounded by farms, right here in this county. Their little piece of Heaven is only a few acres, less then twenty I believe, yet they are surviving there.

I agree that killing all the Wolves makes no sense at all. But then again I doubt that any but a few idiots think that is a good idea.

I even have doubts that saving the Caribou is the only reason the government is poisoning the Wolves in some areas. I have no doubt they say that's their motive but I've learned to not trust anything the government says.

I've learned instead to follow the money and the votes. It's the only way to know what the real motives are.

I'll tell you this. That little herd I talked about earlier, the government knows it's there. But they are not doing anything to control the Wolf populations here. Why not? When a species is at risk, doesn't every last animal count?

The government are old pros at spreading misinformation. How many times have we found out after a politician left office that they were stealing from us an lying to us? And managed to cover the whole thing up.

Think about the people who have been leading this province for the past couple of terms. Can we really believe what they told us?

Then think about when this Wolf control plan was implemented.

Wild hogs, ranched Elk, Chronic wasting disease, disappearing Walleye, Woodland Caribou under threat of extinction, just how much does the government know? Who is watching the hen house?

[nicaragua]

Please read what I wrote-i clearly accept habitat as king but we are not clever enough to create designer habitats or willing to make tradeoffs in favour of caribou habitat my presentations in new year are about what I see as population solutions in this I agree with government and buying time. I do not believe lethal approaches are needed. Also not saying I I think it is bears-the evidence is heavily weighted to bears real criticism of mine is that we sit in this position in 2014

[nube]

Well, I will chime in a bit. My trapline is in the south side of 353. After spending the season trapping from mid Nov till now I have seen 4 wolf tracks. I always heard there are a lot of wolves in the area of 353 and the south WMU where I trap but it seems to me it is not even worth trying to trap them as I have none. The main reason why to me is simple. There is no forest and there is an oil or gas rig every 500 yards. The Gov't needs to wake up and see the destruction of logging and oil and gas. It's sickning. If I was a caribou I wouldn't live in that area either.

[dsh352]

Really good to see some strong viewpoints and discussions. We always must remember that this issue is old, 34 years since Caribou seasons closed and a problem was noted. In that time, no lands have been set aside and not one acre protected. We've seen task groups, committees and talks that never end. Recovery plans never get implemented and so on. In that time, ESRD could have saved the habitat but instead, nothing tangible has occurred, populations decline and the GOA moves totally into predator responses to show they are doing something.

So, this is now so far from a wolf issue that it is deplorable. People need to focus on what the government is doing and how truly wrong, unscientific and immoral these actions are. In some posts, people commented on the "proper use of poisons". I submit that there is NO place for poison in this situation. They have stated that only strychnine is used and their own literature confirms baits are checked only 8 days on average. Think about this. Anything killed at bait sites lays there for up to 8 days. Everything can feed on carcasses, secondary poisoning occurs and it's not seen by chopper crews. RESPONSIBLE persons would check every day or two max to ENSURE nothing else dies, that's how it is supposed t be done. Thus, we are seeing huge impacts from grey jays up to bears. Don't kid yourself, grizzlies are dying from this, it's just being hidden.

The GOA wants you to believe they are so responsible, a few years ago another trapper on Little Smoky had his 4 bloodhounds poisoned near his cabin. This was a at a bait site within 700m of his cabin and it was the first week of April with heavy snow melt. Grizzlies were out and tracks were in the area. ESRD removed the bait after he complained. Funny how they don't report that they poisoned 4 dogs and the eagles that were at that site dead. They want you to believe they are so responsible with strychnine but it is not fact.

The entire issue surrounding shooting ungulates for wolf bait is beyond belief. This is something that no one could reasonably defend as reasonable. Our moose #'s are way down, draw times are up to 7 years in 352 and more in other WMU's where they are expanding operations to. Think hard about wildlife biologists flying around in chartered helicopters at $2000.00+ per hour. On taxpayers $'s, these "biologists" attempt to justify shooting 196 animals for wolf bait/poison draws. These are people employed with tax $'s to conserve wildlife, protect wildlife and manage the wise use of wildlife. I have seen the carnage in the bush, undefendable, irresponsible and a crime against wildlife. In AB, we see the GOA promotes a Report a Poacher Program. We see reports of poachers getting convicted for shooting and wasting game, out of season hunting etc. That's a good thing and I support playing by the rules and CONSERVING for the future. So, how can anyone suggest that shooting and wasting 196 animals on winter range is not a wildlife crime?? Appears to me to be the biggest case of known poaching and wildlife abuse I've ever heard of. Kind of dwarfs the 26 animals killed by poachers in Edson that is all over the news and not yet through the courts. Where's the irony here? Is this not a two faced approach? This is why I'm so outraged by ESRD's actions when there are options to what they are doing. Maybe pick up road kills and use common sense!!!

It is known that ESRD is going to expand this "Program" to everywhere caribou live in Ab. So, the same poisoning and ungulate shootings will now occur elsewhere. Wolves will be shot and the scapegoated. And again, not one bloody acre will be set aside by the GOA to protect habitat while the talking and committees continue ahead into year 35 while the industrial machine churns forward. This needs to stop before there's no turning back. I fear it may be to late for the ecosystem of the Little Smoky. We better do what we can to ensure the "wildlife terrorists" that run these programs don't get the go ahead to continue this further.

[Liberman]

Originally Posted by nube

Well, I will chime in a bit. My trapline is in the south side of 353. After spending the season trapping from mid Nov till now I have seen 4 wolf tracks. I always heard there are a lot of wolves in the area of 353 and the south WMU where I trap but it seems to me it is not even worth trying to trap them as I have none. The main reason why to me is simple. There is no forest and there is an oil or gas rig every 500 yards. The Gov't needs to wake up and see the destruction of logging and oil and gas. It's sickning. If I was a caribou I wouldn't live in that area either.

I'm aghast! - no wolves? Where are they shooting and poisoning them all then? There is some kind of a caribou - wolf merry go round coming up in the next year I think and I would like to predict government and industry will develop a new tact to keep the wheels turning. This last has served them well for nine years and allowed business pretty well as usual but is getting pretty worn. I'm really looking forward to the upcoming propaganda; the best money can buy.

[husky7mm]

Originally Posted by nube

Well, I will chime in a bit. My trapline is in the south side of 353. After spending the season trapping from mid Nov till now I have seen 4 wolf tracks. I always heard there are a lot of wolves in the area of 353 and the south WMU where I trap but it seems to me it is not even worth trying to trap them as I have none. The main reason why to me is simple. There is no forest and there is an oil or gas rig every 500 yards. The Gov't needs to wake up and see the destruction of logging and oil and gas. It's sickning. If I was a caribou I wouldn't live in that area either.

They'll get there soon enough if they haven't ate everything in that area already My coworkers and I saw them repeatedly last winter and I saw and heard a few close to there this fall. The massive increase in activity may have temperaily made them stay away. Fox creek has massive $$$ being spent there right now and lots of interest from the big players, may have been a factor in the person selling you the trapline.

[nube]

Originally Posted by husky7mm

They'll get there soon enough if they haven't ate everything in that area already My coworkers and I saw them repeatedly last winter and I saw and heard a few close to there this fall. The massive increase in activity may have temperaily made them stay away. Fox creek has massive $$$ being spent there right now and lots of interest from the big players, may have been a factor in the person selling you the trapline.

There will always be fur to trap there. If I only had one or 2 TWPS to trap I would be worried but with 7.5 then I think it is going to be o.k. I saw more wolf sign in the summer than this winter. I am amazed I haven't seen much of it. The moose population seems good in the southern end of my line. No deer though lol

[Snowdog]

Originally Posted by RockyMountainMusic

What is stopping u from doing this now? They are both open to do that!

As far as I'm aware you can shoot them of bait set out for bears during bear seasons but no bait outside bear season.

[catnthehat]

Originally Posted by Snowdog

As far as I'm aware you can shoot them of bait set out for bears during bear seasons but no bait outside bear season.

You can bait wolves and coyotes , no problem, from the opening of the big game season to June 15th up here.
There are a few restrictions on the coyotes however.
Page 62 of the regulations.
Cat

[Snowdog]

Thanks Cat, will check my zones

[nicaragua]

and really caribou do not live in those habitats- caribou live where few of us go and few other animals. A wolf pack is not going to patrol a bog - sorry guys- even the government/university data clearly demonstrates the separation between boreal caribou and wolves.

but there is overlap in may and june- i have suggested before some wolves seek bogs to den which creates an opportunity- just that it has never been documented with a caribou calf. Wolves have been shown to kill adult caribou but not a big deal. It all comes down to the babies. And despite an increase in wolves, there are not enough wolves to take the caribou calves if they did nothing but eat caribou calves- the wolves would starve to death looking for caribou calves- hard to appreciate if you think wolves are super demons with supernatural powers. Finding a caribou calf is like finding a friend in a bar you have never been in in Calgary, a literal needle in a haystack. It is hard to explain what 1 animal/100 km2 is - an area 10 km by 20 km with 1 wolf and 1 caribou calf and the wolf has to find the calf, at least 1 every day to fill up the tank for the nest one.

[catnthehat]

Originally Posted by nicaragua

and really caribou do not live in those habitats- caribou live where few of us go and few other animals. A wolf pack is not going to patrol a bog - sorry guys- even the government/university data clearly demonstrates the separation between boreal caribou and wolves.

but there is overlap in may and june- i have suggested before some wolves seek bogs to den which creates an opportunity- just that it has never been documented with a caribou calf. Wolves have been shown to kill adult caribou but not a big deal. It all comes down to the babies. And despite an increase in wolves, there are not enough wolves to take the caribou calves if they did nothing but eat caribou calves- the wolves would starve to death looking for caribou calves- hard to appreciate if you think wolves are super demons with supernatural powers. Finding a caribou calf is like finding a friend in a bar you have never been in in Calgary, a literal needle in a haystack. It is hard to explain what 1 animal/100 km2 is - an area 10 km by 20 km with 1 wolf and 1 caribou calf and the wolf has to find the calf, at least 1 every day to fill up the tank for the nest one.

I've sen a loot of caribou up here, but never in a bog, usually in the old growth forest around row or up around Conklin in the sand.
When I trapped up on the Saskatchewan border North of the Clearwater I saw lots of track in the sand hills, and an old set of antlers, but never did see one up there.
Cat