How bad does it have to get before Albertans decide separation is the best option?

[HyperMOA]

Originally Posted by Strait Shooter

Pretty clear the Govt. of Canada owns the national park lands plus a varying percentage of Crown Land in every province, the boundaries of AB. you think you'll see, is not what would be.

Is it clear? Where did you read this? I am unable to find the info anywhere. To be fair, I am not too sure where to find it. We are a confederation of provinces and territories, not sure what land the confederation owns unto itself.

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by Smoky buck

Odds are FN treaties and FN negotiations would be the toughest hurdle. I wouldn’t expect to get out of treaties with FN if Alberta separated. We would probably have the UN pushing that Alberta was committing hate crimes and human rights violations if that was attempted lol

I don’t they would be cheap negotiations and odds are most here who support separation would not be happy with this part of it

The first thing an independent Alberta would need to do, is not be associated with the UN , or with British royalty, in any way. As for treaties, who would actually force Alberta to honor treaties made in the name of the queen/king, for Canada?

[Smoky buck]

Originally Posted by HyperMOA

I agree with you here, however Alberta as a country can choose to not participate in BS like the UN. Alberta would also be free of activists in the supreme court of Canada and honour the treaties as written, not as the courts deem they should evolve.

Honoring them as written would be an improvement but I would expect they would also be at the table when it comes to negotiating the terms of separation

Yup can definitely opt out of the UN but they still medal with countries who are not members

[Smoky buck]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

The first thing an independent Alberta would need to do, is not be associated with the UN , or with British royalty, in any way. As for treaties, who would actually force Alberta to honor treaties made in the name of the queen/king, for Canada?

Trades sanctions from the both the US and Canada under the claim of rights violations would be very likely if there was no reasonable agreement with FN if separation took place

Canada especially under the Liberals would like the opportunity to bankrupt Alberta so we returned. The US would benefit as well because once sanctions were lifted they could trade for resources with Alberta that would be desperate economically. Or the US could exploit it to get Alberta to be the next new state

Even if there was separation there are issues that would need to be handled with realistic negotiations not just “well we don’t have to”. Alberta would still rely heavily on trade and would not be a big enough player to ignore how we conducted ourselves

But again this isn’t happening anyway

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by Smoky buck

Trades sanctions from the both the US and Canada under the claim of rights violations would be very likely if there was no reasonable agreement with FN if separation took place

Canada especially under the Liberals would like the opportunity to bankrupt Alberta so we returned. The US would benefit as well because once sanctions were lifted they could trade for resources with Alberta that would be desperate economically. Or the US could
exploit it to get Alberta to be the next new state

Even if there was separation there are issues that would need to be handled with realistic negotiations not just
“well we don’t have to”. Alberta would still rely heavily on trade and would not be a big enough player to ignore how we conducted ourselves
But again this isn’t happening anyway

If Canada was a sinking ship, and Albertans were rats , the rats would go down with the ship rather than leave. And right now, Canada is taking on a lot of water.

[Smoky buck]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

If Canada was a sinking ship, and Albertans were rats , the rats would go down with the ship rather than leave. And right now, Canada is taking on a lot of water.

like it or not it hardwired in most humans to fear or be hesitant of change. This is the sole reason Alberta will not separates. When it comes to tackling issues most will assess the negatives and never take the time to create a plan to address the negatives.

This is why majority of people just go to work for an employer rather than work for themselves. This is why abused women take forever to leave an abusive relationship. Just like how people will stay living where they grew up even if their is a lack of employment or cost of living is beyond what they can afford

Overtime I have learned that betting on human nature vs thinking people will do what is best or what could be beneficial to improving their situation is far more reliable on assessing what will take place

[Supergrit]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

The first thing an independent Alberta would need to do, is not be associated with the UN , or with British royalty, in any way. As for treaties, who would actually force Alberta to honor treaties made in the name of the queen/king, for Canada?

How about the new country states all colours and races are people no special treatment every one is the same.
That way every one would end up being better off.
Sounds good to me like a fresh start.

[I’d rather be outdoors]

Autonomy is the next best thing to separation from the rest of Canada. APP, provincial police force, etc… Quebec has this right. Think country within a country, the making a firewall if you will. Others will join in a sort of republic. Better than the current state of affairs where some essentially foreign power, gets to tax our tea.


https://macleans.ca/facebook-instant...-the-northwest

[6.5 shooter]

Originally Posted by Big Grey Wolf

It appears some have forgot their physics lessons from school. Our major rivers with by far majority of Alberta water "will not flow uphill' to dem americans. It All flows to Slavey and Mckenzie rivers in the north.

Yup water can flow up hill EG: Panama canal, Suez Canal. I am sure there are others. The idea of the great Rocky mountain canal/trench was brokered back in the 30's or 40's, might want to do a bit of research before commenting , Just a thought

[KGB]

Originally Posted by Supergrit

How about the new country states all colours and races are people no special treatment every one is the same.
That way every one would end up being better off.
Sounds good to me like a fresh start.

That would be too simple, wouldn’t it? We need things to be more complicated not less complicated! Otherwise how are we going to explain the failure?
It’s like sleeping with a wife- she always pulls the blanket from you onto her side…And you can do nothing about it!

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by Supergrit

How about the new country states all colours and races are people no special treatment every one is the same.
That way every one would end up being better off.
Sounds good to me like a fresh start.

The impossible dream, if only that was possible.

[6.5 shooter]

Originally Posted by Smoky buck

Odds are FN treaties and FN negotiations would be the toughest hurdle. I wouldn’t expect to get out of treaties with FN if Alberta separated. We would probably have the UN pushing that Alberta was committing hate crimes and human rights violations if that was attempted lol

I don’t they would be cheap negotiations and odds are most here who support separation would not be happy with this part of it

Maybe if we did separate the FN would get clean drinking water from the billions of dollars we send east every year so Turd'O and his buddies can spend $200,000 bucks on a six day cruise (actually it was on some flight, to fight poverty or something just as hypocritical). Most first nations, if allowed out of the Indian act might actually do much better then they do now, having to bow to the Feds every whim to get their treaty money.

[Smoky buck]

Originally Posted by 6.5 shooter

Maybe if we did separate the FN would get clean drinking water from the billions of dollars we send east every year so Turd'O and his buddies can spend $200,000 bucks on a six day cruise (actually it was on some flight, to fight poverty or something just as hypocritical). Most first nations, if allowed out of the Indian act might actually do much better then they do now, having to bow to the Feds every whim to get their treaty money.

Might but odds are we never know but if negotiations ever happen that would probably be a worthwhile thing to offer as part of an agreement

Its not like the Canadian government has addressed the issue

[Dubz337]

Originally Posted by traderal

You obviously haven't been out of mommies basement recently, probably still can't afford your own wifi but don't worry, uncle TooDoo will send you a cheque, if you vote for him next year, lol.

Been out for a while actually, and wifi is pretty cheap. I find if you just put your head down and work instead of blaming everything on the government and whining like a prepubescent girl you can accomplish quite a lot. You have your say in the election, and I'm looking forward to Trudeau finally being gone when the next one is finished. I'm a proud Canadian, like all my family before me, and theres still a lot of good about this country. It'll never be perfect and runs much better when a Conservative government is in power, but unlike you I still value something called patriotism.

[Smoky buck]

Originally Posted by Dubz337

Been out for a while actually, and wifi is pretty cheap. I find if you just put your head down and work instead of blaming everything on the government and whining like a prepubescent girl you can accomplish quite a lot. You have your say in the election, and I'm looking forward to Trudeau finally being gone when the next one is finished. I'm a proud Canadian, like all my family before me, and theres still a lot of good about this country. It'll never be perfect and runs much better when a Conservative government is in power, but unlike you I still value something called patriotism.

I can respect your position and many others would be in the same camp

Now what is your plan if things continue to decline and the election doesn’t sway the direction you wish?

[W921]

Originally Posted by 6.5 shooter

Maybe if we did separate the FN would get clean drinking water from the billions of dollars we send east every year so Turd'O and his buddies can spend $200,000 bucks on a six day cruise (actually it was on some flight, to fight poverty or something just as hypocritical). Most first nations, if allowed out of the Indian act might actually do much better then they do now, having to bow to the Feds every whim to get their treaty money.

NDP keeps bringing up clean drinking water on reserves but the truth is I have yet to have clean drinking water anywhere I have lived so far.
Clean drinking water is very scarce in southern Alberta.
Even water good enough for cows is scarce.
I dont think most realize how many people are trucking water.
A lot of the shallow wells that used yo be good enough for cows or flushing a toilet have dried up 20 or thirty years ago.
Anyway its not just people on reserves with bad water.

[Sundancefisher]

Originally Posted by HyperMOA

Is it clear? Where did you read this? I am unable to find the info anywhere. To be fair, I am not too sure where to find it. We are a confederation of provinces and territories, not sure what land the confederation owns unto itself.

https://digitalcommons.schulichlaw.d...49&context=dlj


It’s an interesting process.

Provincial and Federal Crown reps discuss a national park.

Province says okay let’s do it and they proceed to buy back the lands and cancel industry permits.

Then they transfer title and ownership over to the Feds. So for instance if running a land titles search on the public lands before the national park is finalized it would show up as provincial crown. Afterwards the title shows up as Federal crown as does FN reserves etc.

The link explains well the process.

Feds acquire full legal and administrative control over the lands. The pros and cons are also discussed.

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by Smoky buck

I can respect your position and many others would be in the same camp

Now what is your plan if things continue to decline and the election doesn’t sway the direction you wish?

It's always wise to consider alternatives, and have a plan B if things don't go as planned. Those that are too closed minded to consider their options, aren't very wise.

[pikergolf]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

It's always wise to consider alternatives, and have a plan B if things don't go as planned. Those that are too closed minded to consider their options, aren't very wise.

Fear is what holds folks back, and lets not fool ourselves it is a big risk and a big challenge. Most people want certainty and to be left alone, we forget some gave up their lives for what we enjoy.

[Smoky buck]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

It's always wise to consider alternatives, and have a plan B if things don't go as planned. Those that are too closed minded to consider their options, aren't very wise.

Most don’t

Personally I keep a lot more than plan B in mind and try to be very fluid to adjust if needed. One of the reasons I always have multiple incomes

[HyperMOA]

Originally Posted by Sundancefisher

https://digitalcommons.schulichlaw.d...49&context=dlj


It’s an interesting process.

Provincial and Federal Crown reps discuss a national park.

Province says okay let’s do it and they proceed to buy back the lands and cancel industry permits.

Then they transfer title and ownership over to the Feds. So for instance if running a land titles search on the public lands before the national park is finalized it would show up as provincial crown. Afterwards the title shows up as Federal crown as does FN reserves etc.

The link explains well the process.

Feds acquire full legal and administrative control over the lands. The pros and cons are also discussed.

Thanks for that. I learned something today.

[HyperMOA]

Originally Posted by Dubz337

Been out for a while actually, and wifi is pretty cheap. I find if you just put your head down and work instead of blaming everything on the government and whining like a prepubescent girl you can accomplish quite a lot. You have your say in the election, and I'm looking forward to Trudeau finally being gone when the next one is finished. I'm a proud Canadian, like all my family before me, and theres still a lot of good about this country. It'll never be perfect and runs much better when a Conservative government is in power, but unlike you I still value something called patriotism.

Can you share with us some of the good there is in this country?

[Sundancefisher]

Originally Posted by HyperMOA

Thanks for that. I learned something today.

It definitely is an interesting process. Not easy to make a new park. If Elk Island wasn’t around it likely would be impossible to make today.

[Strait Shooter]

Originally Posted by Sundancefisher

https://digitalcommons.schulichlaw.d...49&context=dlj


It’s an interesting process.

Provincial and Federal Crown reps discuss a national park.

Province says okay let’s do it and they proceed to buy back the lands and cancel industry permits.

Then they transfer title and ownership over to the Feds. So for instance if running a land titles search on the public lands before the national park is finalized it would show up as provincial crown. Afterwards the title shows up as Federal crown as does FN reserves etc.

The link explains well the process.

Feds acquire full legal and administrative control over the lands. The pros and cons are also discussed.

Also Banff Natl. Park was established in 1885, AB. became a province in 1905.

[W921]

Originally Posted by Sundancefisher

It definitely is an interesting process. Not easy to make a new park. If Elk Island wasn’t around it likely would be impossible to make today.

There was a provincial park down at fort MacLeod. Province didn't want it because it cost so much and was trying to give it to the MD. This was a few years ago. MD didn't want it because cost is crazy to maintain it which doesn't make any sense because there really isn't anything there to maintain. Where does all the money go????
Anyway I dont know who ended up with it but you can bet somebody is making a lot of money off of it for doing nothing.
When government gives out budgets that don't really give out the fine details of where the money is going. No bids, no different price checks or quotes

[Head Lice]

Alberta will 'die on the vine' unless Manitoba, Saskatchewan and BC become a part of a 'new' Canada. As it stands now, Canada is too large to become a 'tight' country. Canada West has the ability to become a 'tight' country with all the food and fuel to do so. Manitoba has an eastern seaport for European access, same for BC with its Asian access. The west has a different mentality than the east, We have an enthusiasm to get things done, and the knowhow to see things through . . . western separation is the way to go . . .

[Smoky buck]

Originally Posted by Head Lice

Alberta will 'die on the vine' unless Manitoba, Saskatchewan and BC become a part of a 'new' Canada. As it stands now, Canada is too large to become a 'tight' country. Canada West has the ability to become a 'tight' country with all the food and fuel to do so. Manitoba has an eastern seaport for European access, same for BC with its Asian access. The west has a different mentality than the east, We have an enthusiasm to get things done, and the knowhow to see things through . . . western separation is the way to go . . .

The problem is the lower wasteland would likely fight it tooth and nail even if Alberta separated first making it more difficult for BC to transport goods to the rest of Canada.

BC separating is even less likely than Alberta

[W921]

Originally Posted by Smoky buck

The problem is the lower wasteland would likely fight it tooth and nail even if Alberta separated first making it more difficult for BC to transport goods to the rest of Canada.

BC separating is even less likely than Alberta

Plus would we even want lower mainland southwest (Vancouver) area? I hope it slides into the ocean.

[Head Lice]

Originally Posted by W921

Plus would we even want lower mainland southwest (Vancouver) area? I hope it slides into the ocean.

Whether you like it or not, a huge traffic of containers enter Canada through Vancouver . . . much destined to eastern Canada. Add huge tariffs to this container traffic $$$$. Prince Rupert is secondary to Vancouver.

[RACKER]

Do people seriously think any kind of separation is going to happen?The economy is in a recession now no matter what government is in power it won’t change instantly. No protests will change anything either. Smith will do her best to keep the economy strong here but times have changed. When Ft Mac slowed to a crawl so did the whole Alberta economy. Only time will tell if a new federal government will be able to magically make things better.