Caged Hunt farms on the table again?

[Full Curl Earl]

Has anyone heard anything about Caged hunting operations wanting another go here in Alberta? Saw something on FB, but who knows with that place these days.

[Grizzly Adams]

I haven't heard anything, but I'd bet any money there are people out there pushing this, last time around, they had powerful friends in government. Coal mines approved ? I wouldn't write it off.

Grizz

[35 whelen]

I was just reading about that on Facebook most of the people commenting were in favour of it, sounds like it's just for elk hunting but I also seen an ad up for wild sheep hunting and turkey hunting in pens in Alberta, I myself am against it.

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[Trochu]

Originally Posted by 35 whelen

......I myself am against it.

I haven't given it much though, so don't know where I stand on the issue, but what's the difference between someone raising a cow, rounding it up, slaughtering it and someone raising an elk, and going out into the pen to shoot it?

[35 whelen]

Originally Posted by Trochu

I haven't given it much though, so don't know where I stand on the issue, but what's the difference between someone raising a cow, rounding it up, slaughtering it and someone raising an elk, and going out into the pen to shoot it?

JUST my opinion, ,IF you dont have the skills or time to hunt drive to SASK and kill a fenced 400in elk .KEEP IT OVER THERE.

[LJalberta]

Originally Posted by Trochu

I haven't given it much though, so don't know where I stand on the issue, but what's the difference between someone raising a cow, rounding it up, slaughtering it and someone raising an elk, and going out into the pen to shoot it?

I think I'm with you here. I haven't given much thought to it either, but what are the big reasons some are against this idea?

[Z7Extreme]

It leaves a bad taste in my mouth when people refer to this as a "caged hunt" or hunting at all. This has nothing to do with hunting other than the chance of spreading disease's to wild populations of animals that could be hunted. Needs a new name... Something like "recreational live target practice". If its something you're interested in, fill your boots. Just go to Sask to do it.

[KyleSS]

Yes, hunt farms are being pushed again. With the recent COVID rules that changed around where and how you're allowed to kill livestock, this has fueled the hunt farm agenda.

I'm not sure exactly what the changes were, but this is my understanding. The Govt changed the rules so farmers and ranchers could sell, shoot, and butcher livestock on their ranch for consumers. This was to help supply meat to consumers as well as support ranchers and farmers.

High fence elk operations fall under livestock. So now with the changes, they are arguing that they should be able to kill the elk how ever they want.

[CranePete]

Fair chase my a@@! When there’s a guaranteed outcome, it’s just killing and not hunting. My 2 cents

[Dewey Cox]

If you're upset that that it's not true hunting, then don't do it.

The only legitimate concern about this is it could spread disease to the natural animal population.
But the rest of these complaints are ridiculous.
If someone goes and kills a cow on a farm, do you jump all over them for not being real farmers?
Legalizing gay marriage didn't turn you gay, and legalizing caged hunts won't make you a cage hunter.

[Grizzly Adams]

Originally Posted by 35 whelen

I was just reading about that on Facebook most of the people commenting were in favour of it, sounds like it's just for elk hunting but I also seen an ad up for wild sheep hunting and turkey hunting in pens in Alberta, I myself am against it.

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Elk farmers are the last survivors of this racket, based on the dubious claims of the medicinal properties of ground up antlers, about the same as tiger penis and Rhino horn. they'd like nothing better than an opportunity to expand their businesses.

Grizz

[bdub]

Originally Posted by Dewey Cox

If you're upset that that it's not true hunting, then don't do it.

The only legitimate concern about this is it could spread disease to the natural animal population.
But the rest of these complaints are ridiculous.
If someone goes and kills a cow on a farm, do you jump all over them for not being real farmers?
Legalizing gay marriage didn't turn you gay, and legalizing caged hunts won't make you a cage hunter.

Fenced hunting of wild game has three negatives, first is the disease aspect of farming wild animals.

Second is the negative reflection on traditional hunting as we know it.

Third is the commercialization/domestication of wild animals.

It should be banned but the almighty $ causes people to lobby and support all kinds of stupidity.

[Donkey Oatey]

Originally Posted by KyleSS

Yes, hunt farms are being pushed again. With the recent COVID rules that changed around where and how you're allowed to kill livestock, this has fueled the hunt farm agenda.

I'm not sure exactly what the changes were, but this is my understanding. The Govt changed the rules so farmers and ranchers could sell, shoot, and butcher livestock on their ranch for consumers. This was to help supply meat to consumers as well as support ranchers and farmers.

High fence elk operations fall under livestock. So now with the changes, they are arguing that they should be able to kill the elk how ever they want.

https://www.alberta.ca/on-farm-slaug...n-licence.aspx

This would lead credence to this. They have to apply for the permit.

[Smoky buck]

Originally Posted by Dewey Cox

If you're upset that that it's not true hunting, then don't do it.

The only legitimate concern about this is it could spread disease to the natural animal population.
But the rest of these complaints are ridiculous.
If someone goes and kills a cow on a farm, do you jump all over them for not being real farmers?
Legalizing gay marriage didn't turn you gay, and legalizing caged hunts won't make you a cage hunter.

What he said

[Trochu]

Originally Posted by bdub

Fenced hunting of wild game has three negatives, first is the disease aspect of farming wild animals.

I don't know enough about that aspect, but if it's a legitimate concern, that's definitely a big negative.

Originally Posted by bdub

Second is the negative reflection on traditional hunting as we know it.

Not sure if I agree with this. Depending on how "traditional" you want to go, rifles, semi-auto rifles, high power scopes, trail cams, scents, thermal imaging, etc. have also had a negative reflection on traditional hunting. As they are fenced, I wouldn't even call it hunting. More like harvesting, a farmer slaughtering a cow, which I don't think has any implication on hunting.

Originally Posted by bdub

Third is the commercialization/domestication of wild animals.

Guess I don't have an issue with this either as I have no issue with bison, turkey, quail, pheasant, etc. farms.

[sjemac]

Aside from the disease aspect which should be manageable, I have no issue with hunt farms.

[urban rednek]

How quickly we forget when previously bad ideas are massaged with $$ signs and reintroduced as the new Great Idea!
CWD originated from captive herds and good intentions. How is that working out for us?
https://www.producer.com/news/the-my...f-cwd-story-3/

[gramps73]

does this have to do with all the exotic sheep and goats I keep seeing on FB

IMO what ever floats your boat, you might not agree with it but I can bet you are doing something that others don't agree with.

[Dewey Cox]

Originally Posted by bdub

Fenced hunting of wild game has three negatives, first is the disease aspect of farming wild animals.

Second is the negative reflection on traditional hunting as we know it.

Third is the commercialization/domestication of wild animals.

It should be banned but the almighty $ causes people to lobby and support all kinds of stupidity.

The disease aspect is definatley a concern, but I'm sure steps can be taken to reduce the dangers of that.

Your other two concerns are nonsense.
It isn't traditional hunting. It's shooting animals in a pen. There is no reason that should take anything away from the hunting you do.
The last point is just ridiculous. If you've ever eaten a Buffalo burger you have supported the domestication of wild animals.

[Dean2]

Bdub and Urban Redneck are both correct. We have been fighting against high fence hunting in Alberta for 50 years. It got way worse when the farmed Elk and Deer markets collapsed. The negative effects of farming wild game are now very well known, from TB, to CWD and many more diseases this is a tremendously bad idea. It also turns wildlife into private property and that has not been a good thing for the average guys abilty to hunt anywhere in hte world it exists. The hunting in Germany and England is great, but unless you have a pot load of money, the average German or Englishman is never going to get to experience it. I would not want to see that happen in Canada.

[Pekan]

Originally Posted by LJalberta

I think I'm with you here. I haven't given much thought to it either, but what are the big reasons some are against this idea?

I just listened to a recent Randy Newberg podcast episode and they were talking about CWD, and other topics. But it sounds like CWD got spread by these types of fenced hunting ranches. I'm guessing because of the high density of deer and moving deer from one ranch to another.

So thats one potential issue.

[Pekan]

Nevermind the fenced hunts. But I'd sure like to see the introduced wild turkey population get a boost of about 50000 polts!

If they can survive in the pass, there's got to be a few more spots they can become viable.
I hear they're around Millarville-Turner Valley.
I've seen them in Bob Creek, heck I ran into a lone Jake in 406 a few years back.

I'd personally donate $$ to that cause.

Maybe I'll make a post about this.......

[leeelmer]

Caged hunting.
I could care less if someone does it, not for me but if you want to do then giver.
My problem, is the way it is done.
They should all be double fenced, they are not, every elk, deer or other should be double fenced so there is no way that our native animals can have direct contact with the caged animals. That way the chance of diseases spread is very limited, but the cost of this is what the elk farmers in Alberta and elsewhere have been able to successfully lobby our government into not making into law.
This I believe is the largest problem with farmed game and wish it would change now even for elk farms.
Second as mentioned before is the optics from the general non hunting public, as they are the majority in Canada and in Alberta. It looks bad, and if it looks bad they want it band, and if they ban it then normal hunting is next. That's the way the left works, they don't like it so no one should do it. Look at the griz hunt in BC as prime example, it looks bad, don't look at any science just it looks bad, if they could have banned Natives from doing it as well they would have, they just knew that was a fight they could not win, so they didn't push it.
We are fighting for our heritage just to be able to hunt normally, why would we ever want to introduce something that might put that in jeopardy.

[no-regard]

Originally Posted by sjemac

Aside from the disease aspect which should be manageable, I have no issue with hunt farms.

The disease aspect is likely the most hard to manage. My understanding is that farmed cervids are the cause of CWD, which we have zero control over, is spreading like wildfire, and is most likely going to affect all populations eventually.

[catnthehat]

Dr. VAL Geist tried to warn against game farming a great many years ago due to the disease aspect, ethics aside , which is a personal thing
Cat

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[brendan's dad]

About 6 years ago my group of buddies started going hog hunting every year just outside of North Battleford. It is really just a "boys" trip every year and shooting a pig is bonus. The property is completely fenced and I believe is 1.5 section of land. We all use archery tackle and by no means is it a for sure thing, especially if you are looking for a 80-100 lbs pig that was born on the property.... those things are as skittish as a whitetail doe.

My buddy's dad comes along and every year it gets a little harder for him and last year he barely made it out of the side by side. He took a nice pig with the smoke pole. Now this man has hunted more than most on more continents than most, but has never taken a mature bull elk. The land owner also has a 4 section property for Elk. 400+ inch bulls, but it is not cheap. I forget the actual quoted prices but I believe a 400+ bull is over $15000.00.

I guess the point is, If they did have it here, only a select few could use it, and it really wouldn't effect normal hunting in any way. If anything it would reduce the number of hunters on public land.

The one concern I would have is CWD. No matter how well or high you build a fence, a bird can eat a carcass on the farm side and then fly over to the public land and take a dump.

[calgarychef]

Originally Posted by brendan's dad

About 6 years ago my group of buddies started going hog hunting every year just outside of North Battleford. It is really just a "boys" trip every year and shooting a pig is bonus. The property is completely fenced and I believe is 1.5 section of land. We all use archery tackle and by no means is it a for sure thing, especially if you are looking for a 80-100 lbs pig that was born on the property.... those things are as skittish as a whitetail doe.

My buddy's dad comes along and every year it gets a little harder for him and last year he barely made it out of the side by side. He took a nice pig with the smoke pole. Now this man has hunted more than most on more continents than most, but has never taken a mature bull elk. The land owner also has a 4 section property for Elk. 400+ inch bulls, but it is not cheap. I forget the actual quoted prices but I believe a 400+ bull is over $15000.00.

I guess the point is, If they did have it here, only a select few could use it, and it really wouldn't effect normal hunting in any way. If anything it would reduce the number of hunters on public land.

The one concern I would have is CWD. No matter how well or high you build a fence, a bird can eat a carcass on the farm side and then fly over to the public land and take a dump.

Every land owner would want $15000.00 for an elk hunt be careful what you wish for.

[NCC]

Originally Posted by CranePete

Fair chase my a@@! When there’s a guaranteed outcome, it’s just killing and not hunting. My 2 cents

I've never heard anyone claim that it's fair chase.

I don't want hunt farms in Alberta, but I don't have anything against people who wants to hunt on them. Personally, I don't think they're viable in Alberta, as there are hunt farms all over Saskatchewan and the US cranking out 1000's of 250+ whitetails and I can't imagine that many people wanting to pay a bunch of money every year to shoot a giant penned whitetail when they're becoming so common. Maybe the demand for elk is there. I won't deny that if I won the lottery, I would be going on an "estate hunt" in Argentina or New Zealand for red stag.

My friend in Texas has a high fence ranch. He kills a few deer over 200" every year and gets paid well for them. His deer are from native stock, still wild and spook just as easily as a native Alberta whitetail. He provides supplemental feed, culls hard, shoots and traps as many coyotes as he can, and generally works pretty hard to get the deer on his property to their potential and still only a small percentage of his deer go over 200". He's found in recent years that it's hard to compete with the guys who are raising their deer in little pens, and selectively breeding dozens of does to pen raised bucks (a buck can breed a lot of does when he doesn't have to chase them or compete with other bucks) and they are almost guaranteed to be over 200" at 3 years old. Some hunters appreciate shooting a mature, dark horned native Texas deer but most would rather shoot a 200" pen raised deer that scores better. I just don't see guys paying to come to Canada to shoot a pen raised deer when they can shoot one in the US. From what I've seen, the demand for non resident Alberta whitetail hunts in general is not what it used to be and I think it's because of the commonality of 300" pen raised deer.

[dustinjoels]

I’m opposed to privatized hunting. This is just another example of paying for access in my opinion. Instead of paying a landowner a fee or guides paying landowners under the table, all that it would require would be to throw up some fences and apply for a business license and start charging.

The amount of acres available to the average person would decrease.

Not to mention the future possibility of having these operations on crown leases. They already lease to oil and gas operations and mining companies, what’s to stop issuing commercial licenses for game farms to profit off natural resources such as wildlife.

[brendan's dad]

Originally Posted by calgarychef

Every land owner would want $15000.00 for an elk hunt be careful what you wish for.

I am not in support of fenced hunts in Alberta and would probably not enjoy taking a deer, elk or moose on the property that I hunt hogs on (there is none there anyways)

Also I believe on almost all fenced hunts you only pay for the animal you harvest and hunting tags and licenses don't apply.