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  #91  
Old 03-15-2012, 11:14 PM
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Watch Randy's feed. He even says the police can't protect you.Now the goverment says you can't wear body protection.MMMMM
I feel much safer now.
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  #92  
Old 03-15-2012, 11:16 PM
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Thanks to Walking Buffalo for posting the actual legislation Upon reading it many things became clear, among them is that licensed firearms owners are OK. Even prior to that it noted the act didn't apply to safety gear for sports (sport shooting, anyone?). There are piles of reasons there to be allowed it, but it also balances that with tons of leeway for the registrar with the "of poor character" and similar clauses.
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  #93  
Old 03-15-2012, 11:16 PM
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Originally Posted by darius View Post
i had the same problem trying to purchase a life-size blow-up doll of worf from star trek
lmao
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  #94  
Old 03-15-2012, 11:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Arachnodisiac View Post
I find this all very shocking, that it would be so restricted.
I think that the potential to misuse it is high, and that is why there is such an interest now to try to limit it's purchase.

Other countries are just scared of their citizens.

I am surprised to see the exemptions in the law to include farmers and anyone working or participating in a sporting or exhibition event. With such an exemption, nearly anyone could bring forth an application, citing a need because they are going to a farm or sporting event.

Last edited by rwm1273; 03-15-2012 at 11:30 PM.
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  #95  
Old 03-15-2012, 11:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darius View Post
i had the same problem trying to purchase a life-size blow-up doll of Worf from Star Trek
I should have known better than to leverage this as an example.

I swear, I never had a doll. Only a life-size cardboard cut-out... FOR DECORATION ONLY!
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  #96  
Old 03-15-2012, 11:18 PM
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what if they install bullet proof glass on there car , and plate the doors , why should that be illegal ? is it ? should it be ?

Quote:
yes this is illegal.
Only if it causes the vehicle to fail a safety inspection, which may not be the case.

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  #97  
Old 03-15-2012, 11:18 PM
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We believe yah. darius get shovel.I think we need one.
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  #98  
Old 03-15-2012, 11:21 PM
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Originally Posted by elkhunter11 View Post
This law won't effect me, or many forum members either, for the reason in bold below, but I am still against it in principle.


I'll be exempt by wearing my historically collectable medieval glass-clad polycarbonate armour to the rodeo at the farmer's soft ball tournament.
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  #99  
Old 03-15-2012, 11:22 PM
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Arach, They are talking about inflatables in the fishing forum.
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  #100  
Old 03-15-2012, 11:25 PM
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Arach, They are talking about inflatables in the fishing forum.
Inflatable Klingons?

Also, after reading the actual legislation, it seems I may have overreacted.
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  #101  
Old 03-15-2012, 11:29 PM
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Originally Posted by elkhunter11 View Post
Only if it causes the vehicle to fail a safety inspection, which may not be the case.
Actually the law does ban them unless for a legitimate purpose.
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  #102  
Old 03-15-2012, 11:29 PM
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Also, after reading the actual legislation, it seems I may have overreacted.
I don't feel that way at all, even though there are several exemptions, it is still a useless piece of legislation. If anything, having so many exemptions, makes it even more useless.
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  #103  
Old 03-15-2012, 11:31 PM
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Originally Posted by elkhunter11 View Post
I don't feel that way at all, even though there are several exemptions, it is still a useless piece of legislation. If anything, having so many exemptions, makes it even more useless.
Bingo! Just more crap for cops, lawers and judges to learn at our cost.
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  #104  
Old 03-15-2012, 11:32 PM
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Actually the law does ban them unless for a legitimate purpose.
I suggest that you read the regulations for yourself. Unless the vehicle is made unsafe because of the modifications, it isn't illegal.

https://www.solgps.alberta.ca/progra...04_1%20fnl.pdf
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  #105  
Old 03-16-2012, 08:05 AM
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Originally Posted by elkhunter11 View Post
I suggest that you read the regulations for yourself. Unless the vehicle is made unsafe because of the modifications, it isn't illegal.

https://www.solgps.alberta.ca/progra...04_1%20fnl.pdf
I had read a document some time ago but can't find it now. It may have been a proposal to law. What that document had said was armoured cars were prohibited unless authorized by the authority.

However the BC law does require anyone who wants to have an armoured car to have a permit.

Manitoba also bans them unless you have a permit.

PART 3

FORTIFIED VEHICLES

PERMIT TO OWN OR DRIVE A FORTIFIED VEHICLE

Permit required to own or drive fortified vehicle

13(1) No person shall own or drive a fortified vehicle unless the person holds a valid fortified vehicle permit.

Exemption for permit to drive

13(2) The following persons do not require a fortified vehicle permit in order to drive a fortified vehicle:

(a) a member of a police service;

(b) a government employee who drives a fortified vehicle in the course of his or her employment;

(c) a prescribed person or a member of a prescribed class of persons.

Restriction on exemption

13(3) The exemption in clauses (2)(a) and (b) applies only while the person who is the subject of the exemption is driving a fortified vehicle in the course of his of her employment or duties or as permitted or authorized by his or her employer or commanding officer.

Application for fortified vehicle permit

14(1) A person may apply to the director for a fortified vehicle permit.

Application requirements

14(2) An application for a permit must

(a) be made in writing on a form approved by the director;

(b) set out the reasons why the applicant needs to own or drive a fortified vehicle;

(c) in the case of an applicant seeking to own a fortified vehicle, specify the fortifications on the vehicle in question;

(d) include an authorization for the director to carry out the prescribed checks regarding the applicant; and

(e) be accompanied by the prescribed fee.

Refusal to issue fortified vehicle permit

15 The director may refuse to issue a fortified vehicle permit if

(a) the director determines that the applicant has failed to demonstrate a need to own or drive a fortified vehicle;

(b) the director determines that it is not in the public interest for the applicant to own or drive a fortified vehicle, having regard to the applicant's character or past conduct; or

(c) the applicant fails to satisfy any additional requirements established by regulation.

Fortified vehicle permit

16(1) The director may issue a fortified vehicle permit for a prescribed term.

Terms and conditions

16(2) The director may impose any terms and conditions on a permit that the director considers appropriate.

Compliance with terms and conditions

16(3) A permit holder must comply with all terms and conditions imposed on the permit.

Permit to be carried while driving

16(4) A permit holder must have the permit in his or her possession whenever he or she is driving a fortified vehicle, and must produce it to an inspector on request.

Cancellation of permit

17(1) The director may cancel a fortified vehicle permit if the director determines that

(a) the holder has contravened this Act; or

(b) it is no longer in the public interest for the holder to have the permit.

Consequences of cancellation

17(2) When a permit is cancelled, the holder must immediately return the permit to the director and, if the holder owns a fortified vehicle, he or she must either

(a) ensure that the fortifications are removed from the vehicle in accordance with written directions from the director; or

(b) dispose of the fortified vehicle in accordance with written directions from the director.
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  #106  
Old 03-16-2012, 08:11 AM
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I have an RPAL.....I will place an order for Body Armour today!

Exemptions

4 Subject to the regulations, the following individuals or classes of individuals are exempt from the requirement to hold a permit issued under this Act:

(f) an individual who has been issued a valid licence under the Firearms Act (Canada);

LC
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  #107  
Old 03-16-2012, 08:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck View Post
I have an RPAL.....I will place an order for Body Armour today!

Exemptions

4 Subject to the regulations, the following individuals or classes of individuals are exempt from the requirement to hold a permit issued under this Act:

(f) an individual who has been issued a valid licence under the Firearms Act (Canada);

LC
I bought a 2a, as it is relatively thin, and protects against some of the threats I face and I felt that if I was going to die, it would not make much difference which body armour I wore. The 3 and 3a are very heavy, but protect against rifles from close range. The 2a will protect against some rifles, depending on range, but is not guaranteed to prevent total penetration. In other words it will stop the bullet, but it will be possible that it will puncture through the armour, and cause me a possible flesh wound instead of just a bruise. A good trade off for nearly 20lbs of weight difference.

Mine was just under $500. I recommend if you buy one, make sure it is new and a recent manufacture date. They do have a life limit, and deteriorate with time.
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  #108  
Old 03-16-2012, 08:45 AM
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However the BC law does require anyone who wants to have an armoured car to have a permit.

Manitoba also bans them unless you have a permit.
And if I lived in B.C. or Manitoba, I would concern myself with their laws, but I live in Alberta, so I live according to the Alberta laws.
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  #109  
Old 03-16-2012, 08:53 AM
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Originally Posted by elkhunter11 View Post
And if I lived in B.C. or Manitoba, I would concern myself with their laws, but I live in Alberta, so I live according to the Alberta laws.
Yes you would. My previous post was not accurate. However Alberta was planning to enact similar laws to Manitoba and BC, but have only pushed forward this watered down law.
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  #110  
Old 03-16-2012, 09:30 AM
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Originally Posted by rwm1273 View Post
I don't see it that way. Nothing is being banned.

Here is BC's law. Alberta wants to go to something similar.

Part 1 — Possession of Body Armour
Prohibition on possession of body armour

2 (1) In this section:

"armoured car guard" means an individual who performs the work of, or provides any aspect of the services provided by, an armoured car guard service, as defined in the Security Services Act;

"private investigator" has the same meaning as in the Security Services Act;

"security consultant" has the same meaning as in the Security Services Act;

"security guard" means an individual who performs the work of, or provides any aspect of the services provided by, a security guard service, as defined in the Security Services Act.

(2) A person must not possess body armour except under the authority of a valid body armour permit issued in the person's name.

(3) Subsection (2) does not apply to a person who

(a) holds a valid security worker licence authorizing the person to perform the work of

(i) an armoured car guard,

(ii) a private investigator,

(iii) a security consultant,

(iv) a security guard, or

(v) a body armour salesperson,

while the person is in the course of employment under the security worker licence,

(b) holds a valid security business licence for a security business described in paragraph (a), (c), (d), (e), (f) or (g) of the definition of "security business" in the Security Services Act, while the person is in the course of employment in relation to the security business licence, or

(c) is exempt under the regulations.
I Use it when guiding clients dont think I woud fall under this. I will still use mine.
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  #111  
Old 03-16-2012, 09:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Arachnodisiac View Post
This is the silliest, most inept and poorly conceived legislation I've ever heard proposed in Canada.

Whether I want to purchase a life-size blow-up doll of Worf from Star Trek, or body armour or silver horns to embed in my skull, it is none of the government's business. It does not matter why I have a Klingon fetish, a desire to look like a horned bovine or a hankering to be bullet proof.

None of those acts infringe upon the rights of another citizen, nor do they have the potential to harm others, intentionally or inadvertently.

Moreover, not only can criminals order online, but that is likely the precise route they would take – other than the black market which will only be increased if this is passed.

Honestly, this is in fact worse than the gun registry because at least with that, all you needed to do was record the purchase. This means asking for permission!

This is not only an infringement on freedom, but an assault on our intelligence.
Yup. Now I definitely see where you and I could be related.

I put body armour on my son everytime we go to the pistol range. Why? Because people are shooting! He's worth it.
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  #112  
Old 03-16-2012, 09:47 AM
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Originally Posted by elkhunter11 View Post
This law won't effect me, or many forum members either, for the reason in bold below, but I am still against it in principle, because it infringes on peoples freedoms for no valid reason.
You hit the nail squarely on the head, elkhunter11. That's why I also oppose it. It's why I will oppose any law justified by emotion.

It's why I will oppose any law that makes me a criminal although I have harmed no-one. Like this law. If I, or you, buy body armour without government permission, we are a criminal although we have harmed no-one. That is wrong. It is not "kinda wrong". It is wrong.

I will not have my freedom limited according to the hypothetical behaviour of criminals. Why should our freedom be limited by what a criminal might do?

If I have no criminal intent, I am not guilty. Period. That has been our system of law for centuries. Killing, for instance, is not illegal. Killing with bad intent is illegal. That is why we (supposedly) are allowed to kill someone in self-defence. That is why our police are allowed to kill someone in their defence or in defence of one of us. In those circumstances, killing is even praised. Why? There was no bad intent.

Regulating the thing is simply and utterly wrong-headed.

My freedom does not come from government. It is mine. I was born with it. I do not need to justify why I want to keep it. I do not need a "good reason" to exercise it. My freedom has been paid for and given to me by better men than I. I know that and I will not hand it over.

It does not matter that this law is full of exemptions. It does not matter who passed this law. It is all wrong.

Requiring a "permit" or a "licence" for anything means that I am banned from doing such a thing without permission from my government. I am not thereafter free. Freedom cannot be be something which is given, or tolerated, by government. That is exactly the opposite of freedom.

It does not matter to me that this only takes away my freedom "a little bit". Surrender is habit-forming and I will not form that habit. Period.

That's why we should oppose laws like this. It's got nothing to do with body armour.
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  #113  
Old 03-16-2012, 09:52 AM
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No idea whether this issue is actually a problem for law enforcement or not.

Strikes me that the easiest first step would be this... Body armour is legal. However, commit a crime while wearing body armour and you get an extra few years tacked on to your sentence. Easy.
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  #114  
Old 03-16-2012, 10:02 AM
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Originally Posted by elkhunter11 View Post
I wonder how many people that are defending this new legislation were in favor of the long gun registry? In each case the legislation was enacted under the guise of protecting Canadians, yet neither legislation will accomplish that.
Exactly.
There are many people, some here in fact, that are against hand gun hunting simply becaus they do not like them.
Others say "I could care less so let them make the law."

My opinions on semi auto fire arms are well known here, baciscally I can't stand the danged things, semi auto shotguns, AR types and SKS types especially!

That being said, I will defend to the end the right for a person to own said guns , and will never ever try to have them banned form our range
( which has been proposed as well), and promote them whenever I can , simply because I see no unsafe reason to.
They are fire arms, nothing more.

The same thing goes for body armour.

Don't use it, no need for it, but why pass a law because someone MIGHT use it in commision of a crime - they already have laws for that as has been stated.
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  #115  
Old 03-16-2012, 10:05 AM
u_cant_rope_the_wind u_cant_rope_the_wind is offline
 
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good upstanding perfect citizen, or criminal , its just one more piece of our freedom taken away, soon they will make laws for other things we can or can not do or wear, no problem , and we all will be like sheep and sit back and let them do it to us with a can of sandy vaseline, soon they will make laws stating when we can drive our vehicles, how far we can travel away from our home, what time we have to be in bed, that no problem because we need leaders like this and need to lead around by our noses because we don't know whats best for our selves, just one more piece of freedom at a time,
NO PROBLEM NO WORRIES
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  #116  
Old 03-16-2012, 10:06 AM
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Originally Posted by Okotokian View Post
Strikes me that the easiest first step would be this... Body armour is legal. However, commit a crime while wearing body armour and you get an extra few years tacked on to your sentence. Easy.
Assuming this is even an issue in the real world, I agree that would at least be sensible. It would fit with the notion of punishing crime while leaving the rest of us free to do whatever the heck we want.

But it still seems to me this is another law created for emotional reasons only.
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  #117  
Old 03-16-2012, 01:39 PM
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Default Body Armor fun

Well after reading this thread for the last few hours you have all helped me decide what I am doing this weekend......since I don't want to be a criminal and I was given a vest a while back and the fact they detiriorate over time, I am going to let my redneck show a little this weekend
I am going to strap the vest to a big tree and plug it full of holes with every caliber of bullet that I own
If the results are cool I will post pictures of what caliber makes it through the vest at what distance. Then I am going to hang the vest from a post by the front of my yard with a sign that will say "If you can make it past my dogs and all my guns (arrow pointing to vest) you still have to make it past my wife" by the way she is a school teacher and no she does not wear a niqab............sorry I can't resist.
Rocky7 summed it up real gooder......
RWM1273 If you are going across the seas to protect others .....why wouldn't you want to protect your own freedoms here. I kind of see what your saying but when you are on a slippery slope....where does it end?
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  #118  
Old 03-16-2012, 03:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Smackdown View Post
I am going to strap the vest to a big tree and plug it full of holes with every caliber of bullet that I own
If the results are cool I will post pictures of what caliber makes it through the vest at what distance. Then I am going to hang the vest from a post by the front of my yard with a sign that will say "If you can make it past my dogs and all my guns (arrow pointing to vest) you still have to make it past my wife" by the way she is a school teacher and no she does not wear a niqab............
If you do that, I swear I will pay cash money to see pictures of both the vest and the sign.
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  #119  
Old 03-16-2012, 03:24 PM
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If you do that, I swear I will pay cash money to see pictures of both the vest and the sign.
Make you a deal.....if your willing to visit in the hospital....I'm in
I am a glutton for punishment
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  #120  
Old 03-16-2012, 03:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Smackdown View Post
Make you a deal.....if your willing to visit in the hospital....I'm in
I am a glutton for punishment
I thought you said she was a teacher? Sounds more like she works in the Post Office....?
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