Poachers Sentenced update !

[Ruffgrouse]

Hot off the presses in Spruce Grove.
FISHING OUT OF SEASON NETS FINES !
Taking advantage of the free opportunities provided by an Internet social networking website has proven costly for four individuals.
The three 17 year-olds and an adult used Facebook to post photos of themselves fishing out of season.
A regular user of the Alberta Outdoorsmen message board posted a notice in mid-May about the pictures and several message board users collected the information to pass along to Alberta Fish and Wildlife officers.
The names of the suspects were cross-referenced through Fish and Wildlife's licensing system, where it was determined that two had previously purchased licences. The documents provided their home addresses, and subsequent interviews led to charges.
The adult was charged with closed season fishing and illegal possession of fish.
The adult cannot be named, since he is the father of one of the youths arrested, and the youths cannot be named under provisions of the Young Offenders Act.
All appeared in court on June 29.
According to Mike Jenkinson, public affairs officer for Alberta Sustainable Resource Development, the adult pled guilty to fishing in closed water and was fined $200. He also pled guilty to unlawful possession of fish and was fined $500.
His fishing licence has been suspended for one year.
Each of the three youth paid a $200 fine for fishing in closed water. All paid the fee before their court appearance.
They were also instructed to write a letter of apology to the Alberta Outdoorsmen website, which broke the case.

Sure glad to see some on this board sticking up for what is right ! Good job and a pat on the back to those who put in the effort.
Hope Rob posts the apologies when he gets them !

[chef]

Whats the deal with apologies to the ab outdoorsman board .
do we have a new law im not up to date on.

Originally Posted by Ruffgrouse

Hot off the presses in Spruce Grove.

Hope Rob posts the apologies when he gets them !

You mean this one????

http://www.outdoorsmenforum.ca/showthread.php?t=4448

[chef]

I see the apology posted in the fishing thread.
i see why its posted here as a request so the rest of us can see that you can poach easily and only have to pay a small fine and get your mother or lawyer write a lame apology that means nothing .
we need some stiffer panalties in place ,this poaching crap is getting way out of hand.
Other provinces take your gear ,fishing or hunting as well as boats etc,sell thier gear and use the funds for conservation efforts..
Fact is we as outdoorsman should be getting a break on license costs and the poachers should be paying more.
Not the other way around

[Ruffgrouse]

Thanks 50 BMG, I didn't see that.
Chef I hear ya man !
If I don't have any pervious criminal record and see a WT / MD / Moose / Elk
that I can't live without and pound it. Brag and get caught, go through the court and cry on the stand and say how sorry I am and that I will never do it again. Is that all I'm going to get is $700 in fines and a "Sorry about that " letter? Besides being a low life for poaching and going against everything I believe in, where is the deterrent ? I now that crime is the same way but we need to start making examples out of everyone that breaks the rules for Hunting / Fishing or Criminal Code stuff so we have a life in our future ! What can I say ! Kind of puts a cloud on things if you ask me !

[Redfrog]

HMMMM? What do you think would be a suitable sentence Chef?

[RandyBoBandy]

Originally Posted by Redfrog

HMMMM? What do you think would be a suitable sentence Chef?

Total confiscation of equipment used, 5 yr ban from fishing or hunting would be a nice start

[Bear Ballz]

Originally Posted by MrLeahy

Total confiscation of equipment used, 5 yr ban from fishing or hunting would be a nice start

x2
and the dad should have gotten worse cause not only was he supervising the poaching, but right there with them doing it too.

[TreeGuy]

OK. Here's the problem with confiscation. Would if two guys are fishing out of season on a boat. They have both commited the identical offence, however, one man is a guest of the other and has nothing to lose. The other man takes a $30K hit and the other recieves just a fine and suspension! There is no fairness in that. How would you like to lose $30K more than your buddy for the same crime?

Fines and suspensions can be applied equally and fairly to ALL parties, however they DO need to be harsher.....much harsher! $700 and $200 fines with a one year suspension DO NOT cut it, and from the article, it seems as though the adult was the only one who got the suspension!

Anyway, just my 2 cents.

Tree

[chef]

Treeguy .
ther,e should be no fairness in crime , If a guy is stupid enough to use his equipment knowingly and willingly to do whatever crime he does , then he deserves to lose it .
so if a guy robs a bank and uses his car ,the it shouldnt be kept because its not fair to the other gangsters.
Sorry man but if your doing the crime and dumb enough to use your equipment to do it knowing you may lose it ,then i think thats a great deterant and a real message,
100 buck is not a message its an invitation ,so you poach a 100 times and get caught once . its 1dollar an offence , real generous if you ask me.
A fair sentence or fine would be in the 1000 dollar mark as well as a ton of community time or work with f&w to educate these retards about right and wrong ways of doing things ,and as i stated the loss of equipment and rights for at least a year .
I dont think one should be less than or more than another other besides than losing your gear ,so if one guy has more invested than the other , thats his problem.
Thats just my thoughts , i know in the east when a guy gets caught with a hunting or fishing infraction severe enough ,they lose thier gear and have to fight to get it back , if they even get it back and then there,s the court cost and so on .
I heard one fella say at the lake one day about getting caught with 100 plus trout and it cost him around 1000 dollars and his buddy lost his boat and had to fight to get his vehicle back .
it wasnt a good experience ,but it wasnt the first time they did this and over the years of doing this it really only cost him about 50 cents a trout .

[TreeGuy]

OK, chef. How's this hypothetical situation for ya? Would if you are running a 40' plus cabin cruiser styled boat off of the coast? Would if you are hosting 15-20 people who aren't necessarily fishermen? Would of, in the commotion, a newbie culls a fish that is either a protected species or over their limit without their knowing it? Should you lose your $250K+ boat be taken from you while that guy gets a $200 fine??? It is situations like that why they are getting away from confiscation on all levels. They tried taking away the vehicals of johns picking up hookers, but once it was enacted it seemed like the guys in the BMWs were taking a much harder hit for commiting the same crime as the landscaper in the $500 pick up truck. Fines and suspensions are the only true way to fairly administer justice, thats why the statue holds a scale and wears an blindfold.

Tree

[chef]

I know what you are saying and it makes sense.
The cruiser may be a little extreme to be using as an example , obviously that would be overkill and proof of a knowing and willing crime must be established , but say im using the same boat to pick up a kilo of illegal substances , then its ok i assume . so i think the blindfold and the scale are a mockery of a foolish justice attempt.
the statue wears a blindfold and the scale in real life is really the depths of thier suit pockets ,the fuller they get the more the scale tips.
If a john doesnt want tpo loose his bmw then he should leave it home like the contractor or plumbers do and take his old truck.
Not sure catching fish and robbing banks or severe crimes are in the same category or warrant the same punishments .
Our system to deal with wildlife infractions needs to be revisited and a deterant system in place , so according to the price of a vehicle or equipment involved ,take thier property up to a certain dollar value and give the option to buy it back or something.

[TreeGuy]

Originally Posted by chef

Our system to deal with wildlife infractions needs to be revisited and a deterant system in place , so according to the price of a vehicle or equipment involved ,take thier property up to a certain dollar value and give the option to buy it back or something.

Hey Chef.

I agree that the wildlife punishments need to be revisited. They could be harsher for sure! On the flip of the coin is that the system as it stands, seems to be working fairly well. IMHO incidents of poaching seem to be alot less than they were, say 15-20 years ago (no I don't have any facts, its just an opinion).

I will back off enough to agree that the property that gets conficated should be the IMMEDIATE property. For example, the firearms used during the offence, the rod and reel and said tackle used, or the traps used. That would be a far sight fairer than one guy losing a rod, and the other losing his '08 F350!

The blindfold and the scales are the founding principal of western justice systems. They represent how it is supposed to work when it was designed 200 years ago. However, one would have to be blindfolded himself to not realize that there is certainly a BIG difference between principal and reality! Can you say OJ Simpson?

Tree

[Dewie]

I doesn't matter the fines or what you do most of the time poachers will still poach. With a fine of $700 who cares that guy might still be fishing. Read the game warden magazine there are lots and lots of repeat offenders and all they get is little fines.

[chef]

Paris hilton said it best .
I thought it was ok to drive drunk without a license ,he told me so .
That kind of excuse still gets people off or a lesser sentence in some cases.
If the glove doesnt fit let them go attitude is what is wrong with our system.

Im sure you wouldnt have to take a new truck from a guy to keep , but keep it for awhile and show them ,GIVEN THE DUDE IS GUILTY.(hey its not ok to do what your doing and the next time it happens we will keep the truck for good )Losing a new truck or an old truck would deffinately make a guy think twice ,
but a 100 dollar fine is a joke and will make a guy do whatever he wants , thats 2 hrs wages for alot of people these days.
if the dude gets away with the whatever for a few times it makes it ok to do so .
A fear of a fine of such does not help deter nor create a sense of ethics by any means.
I think a deterant as such would shut alot of the wildlife problems down .
This program should be in place for all ,ethnic or first nation ,whomever it may be.

[TreeGuy]

Originally Posted by chef

This program should be in place for all ,ethnic or first nation ,whomever it may be.

That's why she wears a blindfold man!

Tree

[chef]

There seems to be a hole in the blindfold ,because there are double standards in all our systems .
I said there is no fairness in crime , so if the blindfolds are in place ,why should it matter what material things or thier cost are, if taken away.

[ABwhitetail]

I don't know about the rest of you, but there are very few of us whom can honestly say we have lived our lives with-out making some bad choices and learning from our mistakes. In the case of the youths, this may have been a perfect intervention in their outdoor pursuits. Getting caught now and learning there are consequences hopefully will teach a lesson in being more responsible than there adult counterpart. I hope that when they in turn take their Kid's and grandkid's out hunting and fishing, they teach them how to follow the regulations better than they were taught....based on the lesson they recieved with the minimal fines in this case....

Bottom line, I think everyone is being a little harsh....I can totally agree that in a lot of cases fines and penalties are too slim, but the place I feel I would really like to see the increases, is in repeat offenders....those whom just aren't learning their lesson....and if it takes taking away $70K in quad and truck, boat, or gear....then maybe that is what needs to be done....

[RandyBoBandy]

You should NEVER get a repeat offender if the INITIAL crime and penalty is administerd(sp)...KNOW the LAW...Comprehend the LAW...and don't pretend to be STUPID!..take some accountability for gawd sakes!!

[ABwhitetail]

My point simply is that we should give people a chance to make good on their mistakes...lets not cut off their hands on the first infraction.....if they prove they do not want to learn and follow the rules of society....then by all means, pass me the axe!