Sheep on a Draw?

[7MM Mike]

Sheepguide - you dont get Sheep's post? Are you kidding? Your a guide - arent you?

Assisting someone else to spot and kill a sheep would be considered GUIDING. And unless your a liscenced guide operating in your concession - it would be illegal to the letter of the law....

[Pathfinder76]

Originally Posted by LongDraw

we have a bunch of potential solutions listed in this discussion, but could someone tell me what the problem is?

Talk about reverse engineering..

The crux of the matter lies with CO's and SRD not wanting to deal with short sheep. To that I say boo hoo and it's part of life and the job description.

Originally Posted by LongDraw

we have a bunch of potential solutions listed in this discussion, but could someone tell me what the problem is?

Talk about reverse engineering..

Amen!

Originally Posted by sheepguide

Not really getting your post here?

.

That to the letter of the law, all those guys on the 5-year break could not legally go to the mountains with their buddies to help them get a sheep, effectively preventing them from hunting sheep for 5 years. Seems a bit draconian to me.

[sheepguide]

Originally Posted by 7MM Mike

Sheepguide - you dont get Sheep's post? Are you kidding? Your a guide - arent you?

Assisting someone else to spot and kill a sheep would be considered GUIDING. And unless your a liscenced guide operating in your concession - it would be illegal to the letter of the law....

Ya im a guide. And what does going hunting with your buddies have to do with guiding?
There is no contract, no gain or reward and no license to get to just take out a resident like there is with the hunter host.

if you could show me where it is illegal to hunt with friends and assist them then ill retract my statement!

[sheepguide]

Originally Posted by sheephunter

That to the letter of the law, all those guys on the 5-year break could not legally go to the mountains with their buddies to help them get a sheep, effectively preventing them from hunting sheep for 5 years. Seems a bit draconian to me.

Just direct me to that law! Guess Vanessa's sheep were illegal then huh!!!!! Or when you and Rich hunted Cadomin? Or when Rich helps Sandy. Just show me where it says I cant help and direct my wife when we are hunting or if a cousin or family friend wants to go.

Originally Posted by sheepguide

Just direct me to that law! Guess Vanessa's sheep were illegal then huh!!!!! Or when you and Rich hunted Cadomin? Or when Rich helps Sandy. Just show me where it says I cant help and direct my wife when we are hunting or if a cousin or family friend wants to go.

The Wildlife Act is on line...it's there for all to view. I'm not saying I agree or support what it says but that's what it says. It's been discussed many times on here before. I thought an ace guide like you would be more familiar with the law. You should really familiarize yourself with the regulations

Nope, nothing illegal about what I did. I was just along photographing wildlife and after they spotted the sheep and executed the stalk themselves, I helped pack... That's legal according to the Wildlife Act.

As I said...I was just saying......

[sheepguide]

[QUOTE=sheephunter;480980]The Wildlife Act is on line...it's there for all to view. I'm not saying I agree or support what it says but that's what it says.


Not saying it isnt the case but then they would have to charge everyone in alberta!! Sounds like a lame excuse to me!

Thats funny because you guys would probably be the first to get charged seems to be lots of video proof!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sounds like a bunch of guys that want to see bigger sheep and greater numbers without giving up anything.

So then TJ guys should buy a camera and FOllOW some young hunters just out trying to get a ram and take some pics of their adventure instead of whining because they cant shoot a sheep every couple years.

SG

So then TJ guys should buy a camera and FOllOW some young hunters just out trying to get a ram and take some pics of their adventure instead of whining because they cant shoot a sheep every couple years.

I haven't heard a single person whining on here about not being able to shoot a ram every two years. Perhaps you could point me to those statements. I've seen lots of guys saying they enjoying hunting sheep and would hate a longer wait period but that's a totally different thing isn't it?

The buying a camera is good advice though....

Guess you're retracting your earlier statement?

Always good to know the law before heading afield.

[sheepguide]

Originally Posted by sheephunter

I haven't heard a single person whining on here about not being able to shoot a ram every two years. Perhaps you could point me to those statements. I've seen lots of guys saying they enjoying hunting sheep and would hate a longer wait period but that's a totally different thing isn't it?


Always good to know the law before heading afield.

Guess we both will be heading to the fields and mountains illegaly next year when we hunt with all our friends. As I know you do as does everyone that watches outdoor quest and ill be helping my wife this year in the Clearwater and Ram areas if any officers wish to come visit!!!

Guys sure dont wanna give up anything but all agree that bigger and more sheep would be better.

If I had to wait longer or wait for a draw or what ever to increase the odds of killing a big monster old ram then I would be all for it. Our percentage on big sheep excluding the November rut draws is very low.

I dont wanna see first time hunters penalized though, they should be out there learning as we got to. And if that means me going without well then so be it. Ill still be out there enjoying the mountains one way or another!!

SG

[steve]

Could we expect any changes to be made by the 2010 sheep season?

Guess we both will be heading to the fields and mountains illegaly next year when we hunt with all our friends. As I know you do as does everyone that watches outdoor quest and ill be helping my wife this year in the Clearwater and Ram areas if any officers wish to come visit!!!

Not me, I'll have my camera and will be photographing wildlife.....

Originally Posted by steve

Could we expect any changes to be made by the 2010 sheep season?

That's what the grapevine says!

[sheepguide]

Originally Posted by sheephunter

Not me, I'll have my camera and will be photographing wildlife.....

what ever you figure man!

[steve]

Originally Posted by sheephunter

That's what the grapevine says!

So lets say WMU 4** is put on a draw system next year, their giving out 10 tags. 200 guys put in, are we all priority 0? Is there anyway to have 999'd your sheep priority that will allow you to be more than a priority 0 for this zone, since it was a general trophy sheep zone in 2009?

[bingo1010]

i guess i better buy my camera now before there are none left on e bay that way i will be legit

Originally Posted by bingo1010

i guess i better buy my camera now before there are none left on e bay that way i will be legit

LOL...no kidding hey. Just another of those idiotic laws in the Wildlife Act meant to trap law abiding/well meaning people. You have to hope the government takes a look at that dated document one day soon......

Originally Posted by steve

So lets say WMU 4** is put on a draw system next year, their giving out 10 tags. 200 guys put in, are we all priority 0? Is there anyway to have 999'd your sheep priority that will allow you to be more than a priority 0 for this zone, since it was a general trophy sheep zone in 2009?

I've heard nothing about a draw...just a five-year wait if you kill a ram.

[40 incher]

Originally Posted by sheephunter

That's what the grapevine says!

WOW, this went from "always hear this this time of year" to this... I did hear this from the grapevine this year as well and chose to ingnore it as I did not want to believe it. A horrible thing to the Alberta sheep hunting community as buying a general tag was the most enjoyable part of hunting season.
I had always heard that the harvest had to be over a certain amount and I can't recall the #, so please dont jump on me for that. This being said I do know we were always around 100 rams short on this # so never a danger of losing the general licence.
I turn down rams maybe not yearly, but close, and I believe that shooting a ram just because he is legal does nothing but get us closer to the quota of turning this into a draw tag. I believe that after a hunter does finally achieve the ultimate Alberta hunting goal, by shooting a legal sheep, he/she should at least try to better him/herselfand shoot mature rams. This being said that would be a hard one to regulate as no one can seem agree on a system to define a mature ram. This is where "self policeing" comes into effect I guess.
If it is on the grapevine then most likely it will happen, just like the Spray Valley park, that was on the grapevine then... Bang... a park.
We definatly need some help here to keep Sheep on a general tag. I am really pumped about the day I can hunt sheep with my son the way that my Dad and I did. Making successful hunters wait more than the year already imposed I don't think helps out. Guys are talking about shooting rams averaging one every 5+ years... these guys are holding out for big sheep and should feel good about that, as I have looked @ rams in my rifle scope and pondered shooting them and not, I know I made the right choice later. If a ram makes a guy wonder about shooting him, he defianatly should not be shot.
Though long winded I guess I am appealing for help for I believe that hunting bighorn sheep on a general tag here makes Alberta head and shoulders above any other place to hunt. What can we do to curb the decision to change this to a draw season. I for one would be willing to go to meeting, write letters etc, in order for the decisions makers to at least consider another alternative.
P.S
another thing to consider... Where I hunt sheep for the most part I can hunt three different zones all in one day, If a draw system were to take affect this would limit this area greatly and severly change my hunt, I wonder how they would consider this?
A very sad day for sheep hunters in Alberta if this goes through!!!!! We must do what we can to stop this.

[steve]

Originally Posted by sheephunter

I've heard nothing about a draw...just a five-year wait if you kill a ram.

Tj do you know if, they would make the five year wait start with guys that kill rams next year or would they extend the wait for guys that killed a ram last year and have to take to 2010 season off?

[LongDraw]

Originally Posted by sheepguide

If I had to wait longer or wait for a draw or what ever to increase the odds of killing a big monster old ram then I would be all for it. Our percentage on big sheep excluding the November rut draws is very low.
SG

I don't know about the past 2 seasons, but in 2007 I am aware of 9 rams that were 180+ taken in the general season outside of the draws. I am sure there were more than a few 180+ rams that I did not hear of, some guys keep it quiet.

What about the older age class rams (8 yrs+) that are from zones not known for high scoring sheep (Willmore) that score in the mid 160's, 8+ yrs old that you never hear of either? From what I know of the annual harvest numbers it seems to we are killing a fairly high percentage of old sheep outside of the few draw areas we have.

I do agree that we want to kill old sheep, but to equate a monster with the statement might be a mistake. Alberta is on the Northern fringe of sheep habitat and no doubt we have great genetics, there are loads of old sheep in this Province that won't net 170" that are 8+ years old. A Boone and Crockett sheep is a rare creature, the vast majority of sheep that die of old age will never score 180.

Then look at the Big old ram that Ksteed killed. Most of us agree that it is a ram over 10yrs; this ram went into the database as a 7 yr old ram? On top of a problem that I think does not exist, some of the data they are using is definately out of whack when they call that ram 7 yrs old.

[7MM Mike]

[
I do agree that we want to kill old sheep, but to equate a monster with the statement might be a mistake. Alberta is on the Northern fringe of sheep habitat and no doubt we have great genetics, there are loads of old sheep in this Province that won't net 170" that are 8+ years old. A Boone and Crockett sheep is a rare creature, the vast majority of sheep that die of old age will never score 180.

Well said Longdraw - alot of hunters are never going to have a crack at a Booner Ram, and its got nothing to do with too much pressure, too many being harvested, etc - there just arent that many monsters to begin with. A sheep my hunting partner passed was shot by another hunter this fall. Ram was 12-1/2yrs old, scored 164, 14-1/2" bases. That thing could've been 20 years old and still wouldnt have made book.

WOW, this went from "always hear this this time of year" to this... I did hear this from the grapevine this year as well and chose to ingnore it as I did not want to believe it.

Lol..well I haven't heard anything about a draw but chatter on here but the 5-year wait came from "inside."

Originally Posted by steve

Tj do you know if, they would make the five year wait start with guys that kill rams next year or would they extend the wait for guys that killed a ram last year and have to take to 2010 season off?

No idea but I can't see it being retroactive.

Originally Posted by LongDraw

I don't know about the past 2 seasons, but in 2007 I am aware of 9 rams that were 180+ taken in the general season outside of the draws. I am sure there were more than a few 180+ rams that I did not hear of, some guys keep it quiet.

What about the older age class rams (8 yrs+) that are from zones not known for high scoring sheep (Willmore) that score in the mid 160's, 8+ yrs old that you never hear of either? From what I know of the annual harvest numbers it seems to we are killing a fairly high percentage of old sheep outside of the few draw areas we have.

I do agree that we want to kill old sheep, but to equate a monster with the statement might be a mistake. Alberta is on the Northern fringe of sheep habitat and no doubt we have great genetics, there are loads of old sheep in this Province that won't net 170" that are 8+ years old. A Boone and Crockett sheep is a rare creature, the vast majority of sheep that die of old age will never score 180.

Then look at the Big old ram that Ksteed killed. Most of us agree that it is a ram over 10yrs; this ram went into the database as a 7 yr old ram? On top of a problem that I think does not exist, some of the data they are using is definately out of whack when they call that ram 7 yrs old.

Once again well said longdraw...weren't you one of the guys that killed a 180+

[crazyfish]

so if i get this right,.....if i shot a ramand have a 5 year wait,... then my daughters that aren't 18 would legally have to wait out as well because i shouldn't be legally helping them hunt ? Am i getting this right ?

[crazyfish]

I also like what long draw had to say! A 5 year wait won't put more B+C rams on the mountain! Its kinda like WT deer, there are lots of great deer in this province, but a bunch of them will never be a 170" deer even if they lived to their prime ! It does take a special animal to acheive the size req'd !

After reading most of the willmore book over christmas , looking at all the pictures, i didn't really see any "monsters", some very nice animals, but with a quieter time and place, shouldn't there have been just crankers coming off the mountain ? These big sheep that we're all looking for are just plain hard to find, just like a monster WT, because they also become very smart in order to get old !

[Frans]

Originally Posted by sheephunter

That to the letter of the law, all those guys on the 5-year break could not legally go to the mountains with their buddies to help them get a sheep, effectively preventing them from hunting sheep for 5 years. Seems a bit draconian to me.

Really? I thought you were going to be doing a photo essay on my hunt when you are going to tag along. :-) Of course you'll have a wildlife certificate on you, and a black bear tag too.

Frans

Originally Posted by Frans

Really? I thought you were going to be doing a photo essay on my hunt when you are going to tag along. :-) Of course you'll have a wildlife certificate on you, and a black bear tag too.

Frans

[albertadave]

Originally Posted by sheephunter

That's what the grapevine says!

Well I sure hope they make up their minds and let us know soon, at least if it's going to be on draw or not. Was talking to one of my hunting buddies just last night about preparations for this fall. Sure would be nice to know if we have to worry about drawing tags, or not, before we go to all the work and expense of planning/preparing for the trip we want to do.