Sheep Part 3

[209x50]

Originally Posted by ishootbambi

ok, now that i have your attention how about an answer to any of the direct questions sent your way over the last 3 threads. a few were "have you killed only 2 rams lifetime?" and "did they come from cadomin?" dont forget "have you hunted sheep anywhere other than cadomin?" and the easist one "where did you register your sheep?" there were dozens directly asked to you, but im not going to bother looking them all up as i dont believe you will answer now like you didnt then. yes predator control would be a great thing....not just for sheep, but all prey species...elk....deer...moose, dont forget things we dont hunt like hares, martens, or fishers as well as predators smaller than the wolves and cougars, as . improvements to habitat would also be great for several species. i never said it was not a good idea so nice try. and it is nice to see you not crap on someones suggestion for once...atta boy! as for showing you a problem....well a few issues brought up were having more big mature rams around the province, and the killing of short sheep. i suppose it is debatable if those are problems by definition of the word problem, but it is what the discussion has been about from page 1. the title of the first sheep discussion was after all "sheep on a draw". any part of that you dont understand? want me to repeat it?
as for sheep on a draw, i am not against it. go back and look as my suggestion was definitely to have some areas of the province on a draw. not all, but some. if we could get more areas available that are currently off limits to hunting even better. the situation with mule deer where i live is a perfect example. back in the 80's mule deer were wide open on a general tag but had to be 3 points. everyone could hunt, but very few shot mule deer, and almost all were small. sounds like sheep huh? then things changed. it happened under a mountain of protest, but they went to a draw and fewer could hunt, but within 2 years there were 4 pointers everywhere. 2 more years went by and there were legitimately big mule deer out there. the alberta records were rewritten through the 90's because of the draw. fewer hunters each year made for a better quality hunt for those drawn. personally i would gladly give up some opportuinity for sheep hunting and i still believe it is a good idea. as a guy successful in the draws at cadomin, i would think you of anyone could see how that could work. the wails of protest about lost opportunity show the the majority here on this forum at least dont want that. thankfully, noone has called me stupid for suggesting it and i havent called anyone stupid for rejecting it. after a lot of thought, i have a new add on to the draw deal. just like mule deer, maybe have a general archery only season before the draw tags open. for sure less sheep would die, but guys who need to climb mountains still can. i hope thats not stupid or moronic.
lets try one more question while im at it. have you ever hunted sheep on a general tag and away from the mines at cadomin?

bambi, I've never asked for nor do I care what your hunting experience is. I've never asked for anyones because I don't see it as relevant to the discussion. Message boards all full of blowhards longing for an audience. The threads have been plagued by little boys thumping their chests and screaming their "credentials" to anyone who'll bother to read. I learned the value of that type of persons fairy tales a long time ago. Great entertainment around a campfire but worthless in a meaningful discussion. I don't see where my experience is relevant to this discussion either.
You really need to get over your insecurity, it is not the end of the world if I don't agree with you. I'm sure your ideas sound reasonable inside your head but I'm not about to agree with your plans to manage hunters not game.

[sheepguide]

Originally Posted by 209x50

bambi, I've never asked for nor do I care what your hunting experience is. I've never asked for anyones because I don't see it as relevant to the discussion. Message boards all full of blowhards longing for an audience. The threads have been plagued by little boys thumping their chests and screaming their "credentials" to anyone who'll bother to read. I learned the value of that type of persons fairy tales a long time ago. Great entertainment around a campfire but worthless in a meaningful discussion. I don't see where my experience is relevant to this discussion either.
You really need to get over your insecurity, it is not the end of the world if I don't agree with you. I'm sure your ideas sound reasonable inside your head but I'm not about to agree with your plans to manage hunters not game.

Ive been trying to sit back and not be confrontational on this and see everyones point of veiw but if there has been a "MORONIC" statement here it is!!

To have an acurate account for what is happening out there you have to have experiance out there. The more people are out in sheep country the more they understand how sheep are affected by all aspects out there.
A person that has hunted in every zone have a better grasp on things than someone that has hunted one. People that have hunted 50 years have more chance on knowing what is going on with sheep and predator impact than someone that has been out there for 5 years.
Studies show certain points but can also be bias towards one side or another.

The reason that people jump you is that you dont use actual personal accounts for anything or for that matter back anything you say, they know you have killed 2 rams on late season draws in Cadomin and feel you have very little knowledge on this subject on a whole as they feel you have very limited time in the field. Maybe your a guy that has hundreds of days hunting sheep but guys dont see this and you have more or less alienated yourself because of this.
So to think experience and hands on time has no bearing on a discussion then you right there show your mentality.

You can say a bunch of us are bragging and beating our chest and thats fine but at least we have all been out there doing it and arent scared to back it with personal hands on accounts.

I know you will have a rebutal and thats fine but you sir have tried to make a joke about everyone on here that has an opinion that you dont like. To all of us that makes the only joke in these discusions, YOU.


This is a statement not a question so I will not be discussing it with you as it is a fact whether you like it or whether you put me down because of it.

SG

[Vindalbakken]

There is a little saying that goes around the bird dog world. It is better to have 2 years of experience than 1 year of experience 25 times. Throwing about "credentials" instead of making logical, reasoned arguments is the result of a lack of true experience.

SG, 209 has you on ignore, did you forget that? What a waste of typing.

Originally Posted by Vindalbakken

There is a little saying that goes around the bird dog world. It is better to have 2 years of experience than 1 year of experience 25 times. Throwing about "credentials" instead of making logical, reasoned arguments is the result of a lack of true experience.

SG, 209 has you on ignore, did you forget that? What a waste of typing.

I have to agree Vin....some of the bravado and constantly comparing experience does get really old. One of the guys that I've learned the most from on this thread has admittedly never killed a sheep. I don't think his lack of experience hurts his arguements/information. He seems pretty knowledgeable to me. There's times to listen and there's times to talk.....Experience tells you when those times are. I think most people on this board are smart enough to know when someone is talking when they should be listening.

[sheepguide]

Originally Posted by Vindalbakken

There is a little saying that goes around the bird dog world. It is better to have 2 years of experience than 1 year of experience 25 times. Throwing about "credentials" instead of making logical, reasoned arguments is the result of a lack of true experience.

SG, 209 has you on ignore, did you forget that? What a waste of typing.

No one through out credentials. They voiced opinions on personal experience and gave backing on beleifs with that personal experience which is both logical and reasoned. Just because it didnt come from a study or documented fact doesnt mean that members on this forum dont know what is going on out there. Many of them probably more so than any Bio that is working these sheep studies. I know many old timers that have watched sheep herds since the 60's in many different zones not just sheep river and ram mountain they are the ones that have seen the rise and fall of the predator poulations and how weather has effected the animals . These observations are prudent to discussions like this and in the deciding of how things have changed. To say that this experience isnt relative is total the wrong way of thinking. These are the thoughts and observations they we need. Thats all the Bios are doing is documenting observations!


He can ignore me but what I stated are the facts that many on here feel and he cant ignore that.

SG

[Tonto]

Originally Posted by sheephunter

I have to agree Vin....some of the bravado and constantly comparing experience does get really old. One of the guys that I've learned the most from on this thread has admittedly never killed a sheep. I don't think his lack of experience hurts his arguements/information. He seems pretty knowledgeable to me. There's times to listen and there's times to talk.....Experience tells you when those times are. I think most people on this board are smart enough to know when someone is talking when they should be listening.

Ha Ha Ha Ha
This coming from a guy that has almost 7000 posts.

Originally Posted by sheepguide

No one through out credentials. They voiced opinions on personal experience and gave backing on beleifs with that personal experience which is both logical and reasoned. Just because it didnt come from a study or documented fact doesnt mean that members on this forum dont know what is going on out there. Many of them probably more so than any Bio that is working these sheep studies. I know many old timers that have watched sheep herds since the 60's in many different zones not just sheep river and ram mountain they are the ones that have seen the rise and fall of the predator poulations and how weather has effected the animals . These observations are prudent to discussions like this and in the deciding of how things have changed. To say that this experience isnt relative is total the wrong way of thinking. These are the thoughts and observations they we need. Thats all the Bios are doing is documenting observations!


He can ignore me but what I stated are the facts that many on here feel and he cant ignore that.

SG

I couldn't agree more SG.....but some people speak from experience and some people speak about experience. I give the ones that talk from experience a lot of credence. The ones that speak about not so much. Most old timers that speak from experience don't worry about telling you that they've hunted every inch of the province or what holes they've packed out of or what drainages they've hunted. They just figure that people know they are talking from experience. I find most people do.

Originally Posted by Tonto

Ha Ha Ha Ha
This coming from a guy that has almost 7000 posts.

I know, it's a sad life when you only have internet friends.. I'm pathetic.

[sheep spotter]

Well I'm new to this computer chat and I'm not going to write an essay on the subject, but I have been following this thread for 3 weeks and it has been very interesting to say the least. I have hunted sheep in over half of the zones in Alberta, in the last 30 years,and have been on numerous succesful sheep hunts and just as many unsuccessful. I don't know the stats on how many wolves were around years ago, but I do know that everywhere I have been( past and present ), the wolf tracks continue to grow in numbers , and in the last 5 years I can't believe how many drainages that have more wolf tracks than ever before. If they continue to multiply at this rate our healthy sheep population as we know it is going to be in serious trouble if it's not going there already, and most of your arguing will be irrelevent, as age, size and habitat will not be the issue. The solution here is to get all of the clubs, foundations and societies working together to get a serious predator control program in place and get the general public on board with the concept of predator control vs. ungulate extinction.

[209x50]

Originally Posted by sheep spotter

Well I'm new to this computer chat and I'm not going to write an essay on the subject, but I have been following this thread for 3 weeks and it has been very interesting to say the least. I have hunted sheep in over half of the zones in Alberta, in the last 30 years,and have been on numerous succesful sheep hunts and just as many unsuccessful. I don't know the stats on how many wolves were around years ago, but I do know that everywhere I have been( past and present ), the wolf tracks continue to grow in numbers , and in the last 5 years I can't believe how many drainages that have more wolf tracks than ever before. If they continue to multiply at this rate our healthy sheep population as we know it is going to be in serious trouble if it's not going there already, and most of your arguing will be irrelevent, as age, size and habitat will not be the issue. The solution here is to get all of the clubs, foundations and societies working together to get a serious predator control program in place and get the general public on board with the concept of predator control vs. ungulate extinction.

Welcome, great first post.
We have two prime examples of predator and habitat management. The disaster that is the Sheep Sanctuary shows the results of the lack of predator control. It is not hard to extrapolate that through out the sheep range. Cadomin is proof of what habitat can do for the herd.
I realize that managing hunters is easier (Boy is that the truth for some here!) for the govt and cheaper. But what do we do at the end when we can't cut back hunting anymore - like the sheep sanctuary? Do we pay the piper then for our stupidity? We need to do what is best for the herd not what is best or easiest for the bios or govt. Wolves and cougar need controlling and we need to get some serious habitat work under way or no matter how much we cut back on tags the picture is only going to get worse.

[walking buffalo]

Originally Posted by sheep spotter

Well I'm new to this computer chat and I'm not going to write an essay on the subject, but I have been following this thread for 3 weeks and it has been very interesting to say the least. I have hunted sheep in over half of the zones in Alberta, in the last 30 years,and have been on numerous succesful sheep hunts and just as many unsuccessful. I don't know the stats on how many wolves were around years ago, but I do know that everywhere I have been( past and present ), the wolf tracks continue to grow in numbers , and in the last 5 years I can't believe how many drainages that have more wolf tracks than ever before. If they continue to multiply at this rate our healthy sheep population as we know it is going to be in serious trouble if it's not going there already, and most of your arguing will be irrelevent, as age, size and habitat will not be the issue. The solution here is to get all of the clubs, foundations and societies working together to get a serious predator control program in place and get the general public on board with the concept of predator control vs. ungulate extinction.

BINGO We Have A Winner Here!!!!

All the talk and rhetoric and past studies is going to be moot if the wolves are not dealt with NOW!

B.C., Sask., Idaho, Montana, Wyoming, and etc. are all experiencing a HUGE loss of ungulates to Wolves. Just like we are in Alberta!

I don't want to be able to tell you guys "I told you so".

[ishootbambi]

Originally Posted by 209x50

bambi, I've never asked for nor do I care what your hunting experience is. I've never asked for anyones because I don't see it as relevant to the discussion. Message boards all full of blowhards longing for an audience. The threads have been plagued by little boys thumping their chests and screaming their "credentials" to anyone who'll bother to read. I learned the value of that type of persons fairy tales a long time ago. Great entertainment around a campfire but worthless in a meaningful discussion. I don't see where my experience is relevant to this discussion either.
You really need to get over your insecurity, it is not the end of the world if I don't agree with you. I'm sure your ideas sound reasonable inside your head but I'm not about to agree with your plans to manage hunters not game.

sigh...i am not surprised in the least that you still dodge a straight question. i am still not surprised at your attempt to deflect attention from the fact that you have not brought an idea of your own to any of the 3 threads about sheep and sheep hunting. wishing to manage predators is great and wanting to improve sheep habitat is great. so how is that done? oops another question. oh well, ill give it a shot anyway. are you suggesting hauling in a load of John Deeres and laying seed for miles of alfalfa in the middle of the wilmore? i reckon some controlled burns would be better myself. how about predators? my sheep died 21 km from my vehicle according to my gps. seems that it should be no trouble for a few guys to go in for an afternoon of wolf shooting. maybe the outfitters up there could tap into the cougar population there instead of cruising the roads for kitty tracks. im not saying that predator control and habitat improvement isnt a good idea, but how the heck do you do it in areas that arent so accessible to the average guy? maybe the government guys could shoot them from the helicopter like they did with the deer cull. please explain your plan.....we would all like to hear it.
and as for agreeing with me rich....you already did. you said in "sheep on a draw" if i remember right that a draw is the only sure way to increase the age structure and size of rams. i dont want to go through that many pages to find it so be a big boy and admit it.

[crazy_davey]

Originally Posted by sheephunter

I'm pathetic.

Thank you for coming right out and admitting it on a public forum . At least you are honest

[packhuntr]

I shoot bambi, you must be Darcy brother. Its apparent that you share a desire to feel like real big fellas, but it gets old,, ya know?

I agree about the pred's. Id like to see what large predator #s are, and what they are supposed to look like. Theres no way that the last 300 years has seen this many large predators in competition for prey in Alberta. What are healthy numbers? The times and the balance of this North American eco-system have changed, of that there is no doubt. Whats of even less doubt, is that there is a severe balance issue here and it looks like its just starting to explode. Im not sure if that statement is true, but if it is we havent even begun to see what change is.

[209x50]

Originally Posted by ishootbambi

sigh...i am not surprised in the least that you still dodge a straight question. i am still not surprised at your attempt to deflect attention from the fact that you have not brought an idea of your own to any of the 3 threads about sheep and sheep hunting. wishing to manage predators is great and wanting to improve sheep habitat is great. so how is that done? oops another question. oh well, ill give it a shot anyway. are you suggesting hauling in a load of John Deeres and laying seed for miles of alfalfa in the middle of the wilmore? i reckon some controlled burns would be better myself. how about predators? my sheep died 21 km from my vehicle according to my gps. seems that it should be no trouble for a few guys to go in for an afternoon of wolf shooting. maybe the outfitters up there could tap into the cougar population there instead of cruising the roads for kitty tracks. im not saying that predator control and habitat improvement isnt a good idea, but how the heck do you do it in areas that arent so accessible to the average guy? maybe the government guys could shoot them from the helicopter like they did with the deer cull. please explain your plan.....we would all like to hear it.
and as for agreeing with me rich....you already did. you said in "sheep on a draw" if i remember right that a draw is the only sure way to increase the age structure and size of rams. i dont want to go through that many pages to find it so be a big boy and admit it.

Aww, now your just being grumpy there little fella, obtuse isn't a good look for you. You playing stupid, while very realistically done about how to do predator control or habitat management isn't very fitting for someone who claims so much knowledge and experience in these sheep matters.
Be pi$$y all you want I'll still be the first one at any meeting standing up and arguing against your draconian hunter management plans.
Get over it bambi I'm never going to agree to manage hunters with you. Yes I know that managing predators and habitat are the harder path but are also the best path for the health of the herd. It is funny that you are so stuck on taking the easy way out, just like sheep hunting the easiest isn't always the best.
I did say that a draw was the only way to control how many sheep were killed, I also said I was against it as most would never hunt a sheep again.

[209x50]

Originally Posted by packhuntr

I shoot bambi, you must be Darcy Peacock's brother. Its apparent that you share a desire to feel like real big fellas, but it gets old,, ya know?

I agree about the pred's. Id like to see what large predator #s are, and what they are supposed to look like. Theres no way that the last 300 years has seen this many large predators in competition for prey in Alberta. What are healthy numbers? The times and the balance of this North American eco-system have changed, of that there is no doubt. Whats of even less doubt, is that there is a severe balance issue here and it looks like its just starting to explode. Im not sure if that statement is true, but if it is we havent even begun to see what change is.

According Gordy Klassen of the ATA there are 5 to 10 times as many wolves in Alberta as is healthy. the 5x number Gordy got from the govt bios, the 10x number he cane up with. Either way wolves are out of control.

[ram crazy]

Originally Posted by packhuntr

I shoot bambi, you must be Darcy Peacock's brother. Its apparent that you share a desire to feel like real big fellas, but it gets old,, ya know?

I agree about the pred's. Id like to see what large predator #s are, and what they are supposed to look like. Theres no way that the last 300 years has seen this many large predators in competition for prey in Alberta. What are healthy numbers? The times and the balance of this North American eco-system have changed, of that there is no doubt. Whats of even less doubt, is that there is a severe balance issue here and it looks like its just starting to explode. Im not sure if that statement is true, but if it is we havent even begun to see what change is.

2X...

He wants a hero cookie for shooting his only Ram 21 kms from his truck.

[shorty]

Whoever shot that sheep should be in jail.

[jaylow?]

Originally Posted by sheep spotter

Well I'm new to this computer chat and I'm not going to write an essay on the subject, but I have been following this thread for 3 weeks and it has been very interesting to say the least. I have hunted sheep in over half of the zones in Alberta, in the last 30 years,and have been on numerous succesful sheep hunts and just as many unsuccessful. I don't know the stats on how many wolves were around years ago, but I do know that everywhere I have been( past and present ), the wolf tracks continue to grow in numbers , and in the last 5 years I can't believe how many drainages that have more wolf tracks than ever before. If they continue to multiply at this rate our healthy sheep population as we know it is going to be in serious trouble if it's not going there already, and most of your arguing will be irrelevent, as age, size and habitat will not be the issue. The solution here is to get all of the clubs, foundations and societies working together to get a serious predator control program in place and get the general public on board with the concept of predator control vs. ungulate extinction.

all you guys that spend how ever much time in the mountains should make a few extra trips just to thin out this wolf population.

[Huntnut]

Originally Posted by Rocks

Ya just seems like of the rams I've seen most are around that 7.5 and just legal, I did see one 6.5 yr old but boy he was a squeaker. Saw a few 4.5 year old ones that were legal but they came off the mine, I passed a couple of them up as they were just squeakers. Were the 4-6 year old ones you saw from the mine or out in the park?

They came from cabin creek and berland areas.

[sheepguide]

Originally Posted by packhuntr

I shoot bambi, you must be Darcy Peacock's brother. Its apparent that you share a desire to feel like real big fellas, but it gets old,, ya know?

I agree about the pred's. Id like to see what large predator #s are, and what they are supposed to look like. Theres no way that the last 300 years has seen this many large predators in competition for prey in Alberta. What are healthy numbers? The times and the balance of this North American eco-system have changed, of that there is no doubt. Whats of even less doubt, is that there is a severe balance issue here and it looks like its just starting to explode. Im not sure if that statement is true, but if it is we havent even begun to see what change is.

LoL hey pack,

Look at you all 209ish jumping in without contributing to the thread. 2 post out of 200 and one is about caribou and the other is about your dislike for me(oh and name dropping really hurt ) and about predators that has been brought up 50 times in these threads. We all get it and all agree that predators should be on the top of the list but I dont see you out there doing anything about it in sheep country!!! Everyone wants predator control but most do nothing about it and want it done by someone else!!!
SG

[packhuntr]

What are the issues then Darc?? You seem to argue the same B.S. over and over for apparently nothing more than reason to hear your own voice?? If you know so bloody much and you acknowledge the fact that there might be an over population of predators, why not discuss that end of the issue?? You quoted me, but have decided to blow right past what was said to beat your chest a little more. There could be 5 times more posted on the predatory end than has ever been posted on the sheep end, but still you want to argue and slam your fist on what seems to be merely the tip of the iceberg. So what of it?? What are the predatory numbers standing at, where were they, and what should they be? Pre and post modern civilization on this continent if you will, anywhere in Alberta should do,,, as you seem to know everything about biodiversity of mountain habitats.

[sheepguide]

Originally Posted by packhuntr

What are the issues then Darc?? You seem to argue the same B.S. over and over for apparently nothing more than reason to hear your own voice?? If you know so bloody much and you acknowledge the fact that there might be an over population of predators, why not discuss that end of the issue?? You quoted me, but have decided to blow right past what was said to beat your chest a little more. There could be 5 times more posted on the predatory end than has ever been posted on the sheep end, but still you want to argue and slam your fist on what seems to be merely the tip of the iceberg. So what of it?? What are the predatory numbers standing at, where were they, and what should they be? Pre and post modern civilization on this continent if you will, anywhere in Alberta should do,,, as you seem to know everything about biodiversity of mountain habitats.

For 1 pack the topics of these threads have been, should sheep be on draw, should there be a wait to hunt sheep, are sheep mature enough, are sheep older in different areas when reaching legal, are to many short sheep shot, what sheep have bigger bases, what areas produce bigger scoring rams, what area has bigger curls, are predators hard on sheep, etc. For a big consensus that these threads have been about sheep.

We all know that wolves and cougars are playing havic with our herds but as a few( part of your gang) that seem to know better on here say, sheep populations are stable!!!
And sure 5 times more can be covered on this topic but that is for another thread. So if you feel so strong about that issue start a thread on it. No one has shown any numbers on the wolf and cougar population but anyone that has been out there know they are at an all time high so a big step for all guys on here that wanna see them lower is to actually get out there and do something about it. We all want the government to control predator populations but why wait till they react which the way they go will be to late anyways.

SG

Unfortunately, predator control is a lot more complicated than just going and shooting a bunch of wolves. Wolves have complicated social structures and it's important to understand the pack before jumping in and killing them all. Some packs control very large territories and actually have little impact on ungulates compared to having three or four packs in the same territory. One of the dangers of wiping out a dominant pack is that it opens the door to several more packs moving in. It would take some coordination with SRD but it's not something they are unfamiliar with. They could actually do a very good job with it and have in the past in areas with caribou in Alberta. There is a lot understood about wolf control in Alberta, BC, NWT, Yukon and Alaska. The knowledge is there and it just needs to be put into action.

While wolves receive a lot of the blame, cougars are another very serious predator of sheep as has been documented in the Sheep River Sanctuary and Ram Mountain. Again, the systematic elimination of individual cats that prey primarily on sheep would help a lot. Again, it's something that SRD has done and is familiar with. Unfortunately, few cat men actually get into sheep winter range to hunt cats either because access is so difficult or regulations prevent them from hunting there. Again, all it would take is a little cooperation from SRD.

I'm not certain what role bears play on sheep mortality but on several occasions I have seen both blacks and grizzlies hunting sheep in lambing areas. Obviously grizzlies are off limits but why not let hunters hunt black bears in the mountains. Right now, the current seasons and access policies basically prevent bear hunting in sheep country in the south.

There is a lot could be done with predators but it would take some serious coordination with SRD to make it happen and to acheive the desired results. I can't see in hurting to ask! If we are looking at a serious increase in sheep population, however, a corresponding increase in winter range would likely be required. They kind of go hand in hand. It seems we are at our maximum carrying capacity in many areas now. Fire suppresion has not been kind to Alberta's ungulates.

[sheepguide]

I agree TJ the cougars is a very tough topic as most mountain areas are either very hard to access(weather condition or no access in the winter months) or close to restricted areas that no houndsman would wanna get caught with a dog chasing a cat in. And I do agree that there is more to wolf managment than hunting but a great first step and easy to acheive is getting more guys out there hunting them.

[packhuntr]

Originally Posted by sheepguide

For 1 pack the topics of these threads have been, should sheep be on draw, should there be a wait to hunt sheep, are sheep mature enough, are sheep older in different areas when reaching legal, are to many short sheep shot, what sheep have bigger bases, what areas produce bigger scoring rams, what area has bigger curls, are predators hard on sheep, etc. For a big consensus that these threads have been about sheep.

We all know that wolves and cougars are playing havic with our herds but as a few( part of your gang) that seem to know better on here say, sheep populations are stable!!!
And sure 5 times more can be covered on this topic but that is for another thread. So if you feel so strong about that issue start a thread on it. No one has shown any numbers on the wolf and cougar population but anyone that has been out there know they are at an all time high so a big step for all guys on here that wanna see them lower is to actually get out there and do something about it. We all want the government to control predator populations but why wait till they react which the way they go will be to late anyways.

SG

Sorry, I will not pretend to know what I dont, thats where we differ. I am truely sorry that I only had 2 posts on this thread Sguide. You can take this one to a new thread. I look foreward to hearing you expound your vast knowledge, while continueing with your talent for personal degredation. Just to clear things up a hair, you say that everyone is saying pops are stable. You dont realize that arguments against what you are saying are to keep hunters on the hill. The ramifications of removing hunters from the equation as youd prefer would create another whole host of issues. The long and short of it, as you know, is that hunters are the ones sending our wildlife into the future for future generations to enjoy. Im sure you have an understanding of that. Oh, and sorry about the whole name thing. I didnt think youd care, having told the entire province at least 20 times that youd gladly meet them at your door to settle things.

[depopulator]

Originally Posted by sheepguide

We all know that wolves and cougars are playing havic with our herds but as a few( part of your gang) that seem to know better on here say, sheep populations are stable!!!

You don't seem to get it!!! The fact is that government has not presented any real data to support that there is a population or age structure problem that could support any type of proposed resolution. What has been identified is that there appears to be lack of unbiased, factual, and relevant data that would indicate if there is a 'real' population problem. Absent that information or clarity of motive for hunter management, all can agree that we could support actual, meaningful measures that will make a difference, such a predator control, habitat management and access management.

Originally Posted by depopulator

You don't seem to get it!!! The fact is that government has not presented any real data to support that there is a population or age structure problem that could support any type of proposed resolution. What has been identified is that there appears to be lack of unbiased, factual, and relevant data that would indicate if there is a 'real' population problem. Absent that information or clarity of motive for hunter management, all can agree that we could support actual, meaningful measures that will make a difference, such a predator control, habitat management and access management.

Good points Depop and if you read the actual resolution that is to be presented at the AFGA conference this week, it mentions nothing about game management or improving sheep populations...it's totally about keeping some hunters out of the mountains so some other hunters can kill a ram. It's totally about managing successful hunters so unsucessful hunters can kill a ram. Is that really a message we should be sending to SRD? I think that's what's got some people so worked up. SRD nor the the original authour of the resolution have ever indicated that there was an issue with sheep numbers or age structure. It was all about punishing hard working sheep hunters. I'm not sure why some on this board are so willing to have some punitive measure rammed down their throats for no other reason than some hunters are jealous of their success. The only factual thing we have right now is the resolution and the facts of it are that successful sheep hunters should be punished for no other reason than they are successful. I'm not sure why anyone would think that was a good idea.

[monstermulie]

Why don't they just make it so that you can only hunt sheep with archery equiptment?

All thought this may not be liked by some, the harvest numbers would go down, and you'd be able to hand out more tags due to the low success rate.

Just an idea

[sheepguide]

Originally Posted by depopulator

You don't seem to get it!!! The fact is that government has not presented any real data to support that there is a population or age structure problem that could support any type of proposed resolution. What has been identified is that there appears to be lack of unbiased, factual, and relevant data that would indicate if there is a 'real' population problem. Absent that information or clarity of motive for hunter management, all can agree that we could support actual, meaningful measures that will make a difference, such a predator control, habitat management and access management.

That cool depop! I guess if the government hasnt said it or prooven it means that there is no issue( just like we agree and beleive everything they say about there top notch grizzly study). LOL
Maybe im totaly wrong on the population thing but if so can you please tell me then how come many sheep winter pastures have alot less sheep than in the past just because there is no unbiased factual or revelent data stating there is a population problem there is also non that states that there isnt one!!!
And for the 20th friggin time I agree with predator control and habitat managment as a first step but this all was brought on by the thought of sheep being on draw!! So we were dealing with the hunter side of things from the start. Some were just giving ideas and thoughts on alternatives to this.

And besides if there is no problem with our sheep herds then why worry about any of it?
SG