To Crossbow or not to crossbow - That is the question!

[westerncoachman]

These are some of the most absolutely ridiculous arguments for including crossbows in archery season I have seen well since the last crossbow thread.

Lets first start with 209x50's equal opportunity for all argument.

If you truly want equal opportunity why cant we all hunt year round with any weapon? That is true equal opportunity. So that is not an option obviously so lets go with crossbows in archery season. I don't agree with this. This is completely unfair I don't want to put the effort in to learn how to use a crossbow let alone a vertical bow so I want, no I demand that firearms be included in the archery season. Fair is fair and I don't think my lack of physical ability or desire to learn something new should hold me back. Come on this is the 2000's give me everything I want without having to work for it.

The next ridiculous argument is

My poor 12 year old cant draw back a 40 pound bow this is so unfair. You know what my 12 year old son can't skate and can't shoot a puck without falling down but I still want him to be on the elite hockey team. Why should he not be. Fair is fair. Lets not teach our kids to strive to do something that isn't in their comfort zone. We will just change the rules to suit everyone.

What has this world come to.

Now if you want to discuss this based on facts like Ishootabambi I respect that. I still disagree with him but at least he has a legitimate argument.

[The Bit Runner.]

I don't understand why crossbow is not allowed in the archery season. It's basically the same thing

I realy like that statement by {bond123}.Are you for real!

[westerncoachman]

Originally Posted by The Bit Runner.

I don't understand why crossbow is not allowed in the archery season. It's basically the same thing

I realy like that statement by {bond123}.Are you for real!

So if they are basicaly the same thing, Should there be a seperate muzzle loader season? They are basically the same as a rifle.

Funny thing is a few of the people that so adamantly argue for crossbows in archery season also argue for a seperate muzzleloader season. Makes no sense to me at all.

[ishootbambi]

Originally Posted by The Bit Runner.

The same range, Are you for real? Wake up sunshine. Let me know how tired you are after holding your bow at full draw for 5 min. Oh ya you couldnt do it. Now lets see lets hold your crossbow at 5 min cocked and loaded with your scope on it, Its a no brainer might as well have a gun in your hand. What a joke!!

you clearly have never held one. the weight is very awkward...all at the front. you couldnt hold one in the shooting position for more than a minute....at least not without a rest. of course if you had a rest what are the odds of an animal walking into your sights if you did? if you arent aimed perfectly when the animal comes along you have to move....and thats when you get busted....just like a vertical bow....or even a gun. with a gun a moving shot at a deer inside 40 yards is no big deal, but an arrow at a moving animal is a bad idea. as for range....again, its obvious you have no clue as to what a crossbow can do. they are the same as a vertical bow.

now my favorite part. my mathews reezen is set at 68 pounds. ill bet you 50 bucks i CAN hold it for 5 minutes. think before you answer that.

[steve]

Although I only shot one animal with my bow this year, and passed up quite a few (30 plus) dead to rights inside 20. If I were to play out the scenario of drawing on those deer, I would estimate that I could have killed at least 25%+ more of them had I had a crossbow in my hands instead of a vertical bow. Due to the difference in movement while drawing.

[ram crazy]

Originally Posted by Okotokian

Seems simple. If I owned a bow I'd be voting no, but I don't, so will be voting yes. It's all self-interest, either way. I have to draw for mulies and antlerless elk in the WMU I hunt... so should the bow hunters. And I can ABSOLUTELY see why bow hunters would want no changes to anything.

2x...

[HunterDave]

Originally Posted by ishootbambi

its obvious you have no clue as to what a crossbow can do. they are the same as a vertical bow.

x2 Not just one person in particular, but generally speaking I think that there is a definite lack of knowledge when it comes to what the limitations are with hunting with a crossbow. If anyone thinks that a newbie to archery is going to just pick up a crossbow and go out and kill everything then they are dreaming in technicolour. Besides having the bolt already cocked everything else about bowhunting remains the same.

Roadhunting with a crossbow!

[HunterDave]

Originally Posted by steve

Although I only shot one animal with my bow this year, and passed up quite a few (30 plus) dead to rights inside 20. If I were to play out the scenario of drawing on those deer, I would estimate that I could have killed at least 25%+ more of them had I had a crossbow in my hands instead of a vertical bow. Due to the difference in movement while drawing.

Have you ever hunted with a crossbow?

[The Bit Runner.]

Originally Posted by ishootbambi

you clearly have never held one. the weight is very awkward...all at the front. you couldnt hold one in the shooting position for more than a minute....at least not without a rest. of course if you had a rest what are the odds of an animal walking into your sights if you did? if you arent aimed perfectly when the animal comes along you have to move....and thats when you get busted....just like a vertical bow....or even a gun. with a gun a moving shot at a deer inside 40 yards is no big deal, but an arrow at a moving animal is a bad idea. as for range....again, its obvious you have no clue as to what a crossbow can do. they are the same as a vertical bow.

now my favorite part. my mathews reezen is set at 68 pounds. ill bet you 50 bucks i CAN hold it for 5 minutes. think before you answer that.

you have no clue as to what a crossbow can do. they are the same as a vertical bow. Do actually believe what you are saying. I cant believe that statement you just made. I not even going to comment on the stupidity of that quote.

If you can hold your bow at full draw pointed directly at your target in front of you for 5 min, Not at the ground you are one strong individual. I am willing to bet that there are not many here that can. I will be at the mother of all shoots hope your there so i can collect my 50.00.

[steve]

Originally Posted by HunterDave

Have you ever hunted with a crossbow?

I have shot them at paper. I can guarentee that I could have raised a crossbow resting my elbow on my knee, waited for the deer to travel into my shooting lane and pulled the pin. No one can argue this fact.

[Rocks]

NO to crossbows in bow season for me!

[HunterDave]

Originally Posted by steve

I have shot them at paper. I can guarentee that I could have raised a crossbow resting my elbow on my knee, waited for the deer to travel into my shooting lane and pulled the pin. No one can argue this fact.

Steve, That is not a fact if it didn't happen. The point is you and a whole bunch of other people that have never hunted with a crossbow make these wild assumptions that you could have done this and you could have done that if you had a crossbow. How do you know if you've never done it? How much more movement does it take to draw a bow and aim in comparison to raising a crossbow and aiming it? Not much! Granted there is more effort involved in drawing the bow, I'll give you that, but movement.....?

[steve]

Originally Posted by HunterDave

Steve, That is not a fact if it didn't happen. The point is you and a whole bunch of other people that have never hunted with a crossbow make these wild assumptions that you could have done this and you could have done that if you only had a crossbow. How do you know if you've never done it? How much more movement does it take to draw a bow and aim in comparison to raising a crossbow and aiming it? Not much! Granted there is more effort involved in drawing the bow, I'll give you that, but movement.....?

A wild assumption?

Holding a bow at full draw since your your butt hits the treestand seat is impossible.

A deer at 20 yards broadside, calm, with a rifle or crossbow raised is a dead
deer. Same situation with just your release clipped on your string, the outcome can seriously vary.

Im not going to bother with spot n stalk mulies.

Guys that spend enough time in the tree, and that's what this comes down to. know how many more deer they could have killed if they were already drawn.

Having to draw and being drawn from dark to dark is what this is about.

My assumptions are far from wild, closer compared to first hand experience.

[HunterDave]

Holding a bow at full draw since your your butt hits the treestand seat is impossible.

So is holding your crossbow up to your shoulder. So what?

A deer at 20 yards broadside, calm, with a rifle or crossbow raised is a dead deer.

No, that's not been my experience with a crossbow. If you can't make any movement then he walks.

Im not going to bother with spot n stalk mulies.

Either am I, that's not what I do. I prefer the ambush. That's just my style.

Guys that spend enough time in the tree, and that's what this comes down to. know how many more deer they could have killed if they were already drawn.

They THINK that they know! But if they've never hunted with a crossbow how would they know for sure? How many more deer would I have got if I didn't have to raise my crossbow to my shoulder, a similiar movement to drawing a bow?

Already being drawn and being to hold full draw till dark is what this is all about.

That is only one small part of the entire equation. Ya still gotta get the crossbow to your shoulder.

My assumptions are far from wild, closer compared to first hand experience.

As are mine with experience with both a compound bow and a crossbow.

[ishootbambi]

how about that....guys who HAVE hunted with them trying to explain from their experience what they can do are being told they are wrong by guys who HAVENT hunted with them. anyone else see that as wierd?

and runner....ive asked this question on here many times and NOONE has given an answer to it yet. wanna try? if a crossbow is such an efficient killer and is way more deadly than a vertical bow, then why is the success rate virtually identical to that of vertical archers everywhere they are allowed?
i havent seen numbers yet where they vary by more than 2% sometimes higher sometimes lower.

and no, i wont be at the shoot, but if i can figure out how to post video will you take the bet?

[steve]

So what are we disagreeing on here Dave?

My point is that being able to hold full draw for a entire sit. Also
the ability of seeing movement 2 minutes away and getting your crossbow into shooting position, or reasonably close too. Never having to let down after the 45 second shakes set in. Is a extreme advantage.

Is it not?

Your also disagreeing with my statement that a broadside calm deer deer at 20 yards with a rifle of crossbow raised is not a dead deer? Explain that too me? Just pull the trigger...

[ishootbambi]

Originally Posted by steve

Your also disagreeing with my statement that a broadside calm deer deer at 20 yards with a rifle of crossbow raised is not a dead deer? Explain that too me? Just pull the trigger...

same as if my reezen is in that position isnt it? the thing is its about the same movement to draw a bow as it is to raise a gun or a crossbow. you still have to move. how do you not see that? if you would like to take a shot at the question in the post above go ahead.

[The Bit Runner.]

Originally Posted by ishootbambi

how about that....guys who HAVE hunted with them trying to explain from their experience what they can do are being told they are wrong by guys who HAVENT hunted with them. anyone else see that as wierd?

and runner....ive asked this question on here many times and NOONE has given an answer to it yet. wanna try? if a crossbow is such an efficient killer and is way more deadly than a vertical bow, then why is the success rate virtually identical to that of vertical archers everywhere they are allowed?
i havent seen numbers yet where they vary by more than 2% sometimes higher sometimes lower.

and no, i wont be at the shoot, but if i can figure out how to post video will you take the bet?

and runner....ive asked this question on here many times and NOONE has given an answer to it yet. wanna try? if a crossbow is such an efficient killer and is way more deadly than a vertical bow, then why is the success rate virtually identical to that of vertical archers everywhere they are allowed?
i havent seen numbers yet where they vary by more than 2% sometimes higher sometimes lower.

I know for a FACT, that if i had a crossbow that last 2 years i would have a 340 bull on the ground last year and a 320 bull on the ground this year. To be able to be at full draw at all times not ever having to worry about when to draw or not is a HUGE advantage. Its realy a know brainer, i can not even imajine how many more oppertunities a person would have betwwen the two.
Do you actually think they are equal??? Honestly man i dont see how any one can think they are in the same leauge. For you to say this quote just floors me. I am done with you and this Post.

{its obvious you have no clue as to what a crossbow can do. they are the same as a vertical bow}

[steve]

Originally Posted by ishootbambi

same as if my reezen is in that position isnt it? the thing is its about the same movement to draw a bow as it is to raise a gun or a crossbow. you still have to move. how do you not see that? if you would like to take a shot at the question in the post above go ahead.

About the same? Or is the same? There is more movement involved in drawing a bow, that's all there is to it.

As I stated above with the ability to hold full draw for the entire sit. Why wait for the animal to be able to see the subtle movement of raising a crossbow from your lap to your shoulder, do that in advance since you have no limitations on how long you can stay at full draw.

[ishootbambi]

^^^^ i didnt think you would have an answer to the question runner. you just keeping living in your own world within your own mind with your own facts that are different from what the real world has proven.

you dont know how anyone can think they are in the same league? well, its because some of us have actually hunted with both and have experience...not just imaginary facts.

[ishootbambi]

Originally Posted by steve

About the same? Or is the same? There is more movement involved in drawing a bow, that's all there is to it.

As I stated above with the ability to hold full draw for the entire sit. Why wait for the animal to be able to see the subtle movement of raising a crossbow from your lap to your shoulder, do that in advance since you have no limitations on how long you can stay at full draw.

try holding a crossbow up steve and just see how long you can hold still. i guarantee you can hold your bow on a fixed target longer.

wanna try the question? success rates are nearly identical...within 2 %...sometimes higher...sometimes lower.

[steve]

Originally Posted by ishootbambi

same as if my reezen is in that position isnt it? the thing is its about the same movement to draw a bow as it is to raise a gun or a crossbow. you still have to move. how do you not see that? if you would like to take a shot at the question in the post above go ahead.

Bambi, my post 103 stated "with just a release clipped to you string" Dave did some creative editing there. I would agree that with bow/rifle/crossbow at a 20 yards, calm, broadside deer, is a dead deer.

It was a comparison of crossbow raised vs. Compound not drawn.

[ishootbambi]

Originally Posted by steve

Bambi, my post 103 stated "with just a release clipped to you string" Dave did some creative editing there. I would agree that with bow/rifle/crossbow at a 20 yards, calm, broadside deer, is a dead deer.

It was a comparison of crossbow raised vs. Compound not drawn.

well that isnt a fair comparison then is it?

[steve]

Originally Posted by ishootbambi

well that isnt a fair comparison then is it?

I feel it is. Raise your cross bow. Then raise your compound. One is ready to go one isn't.

[HunterDave]

Originally Posted by steve

So what are we disagreeing on here Dave?

My point is that being able to hold full draw for a entire sit. Also
the ability of seeing movement 2 minutes away and getting your crossbow into shooting position, or reasonably close too. Never having to let down after the 45 second shakes set in. Is a extreme advantage.

Is it not?

Your also disagreeing with my statement that a broadside calm deer deer at 20 yards with a rifle of crossbow raised is not a dead deer? Explain that too me? Just pull the trigger...

First point........When I'm in a situation that you described with a deer 2 minutes away and moving towards me I would have my crossbow up to my shoulder in a ready position with the bolt aimed at the ground similar to the preparations that I would make with a compound bow being ready to draw. I'd watch the deer and when I was sure of a shot I would raise the crossbow to a shooting position. If I had a compound bow that is when I would draw. There is no way that I'd be holding that cross bow to my eye aiming the whole time if that's what you're getting at. The movement of the crossbow up to an aiming position happens at the same time as when the compound hunter is pulling full draw.

Second point......It's not a dead deer just because it's standing broadside at 20 yards. IF you can get the crossbow into an aiming position and get a well aimed shot then yes, it should be a dead deer. The same can be said using a compound bow. If you can draw it and take a well aimed shot then it should be a dead deer.

As far as saying "just pull the trigger" well, why not say that the deer is dead with the compound bow? All that you have to do different is release the trigger.

So as I see it, the way that I hunt anyway, the biggest difference between hunting with a crossbow and a compound bow is the movement that it takes to get your crossbow in an aiming position and the movement that it takes to draw your compound bow and take aim. It may take more effort to draw the bow however, that to me, is not the huge advantage that some people make it out to be.

[HunterDave]

Steve, Later man. I have to call it a night. Sorry.

[steve]

Dave your dwelling on half a statement you ignored or missed the other half of it.

Raise your crossbow pull the trigger, you just shot. Raise your bow, pull the trigger, nothing happened.... You weren't drawn.

Your saying it's not the huge advantage that people make it out to be, its a very important skill in being a successful archery hunter. Knowing when to draw is a major contributor to arrowing animals.

Originally Posted by HunterDave

First point........When I'm in a situation that you described with a deer 2 minutes away and moving towards me I would have my crossbow up to my shoulder in a ready position with the bolt aimed at the ground similar to the preparations that I would make with a compound bow being ready to draw. I'd watch the deer and when I was sure of a shot I would raise the crossbow to a shooting position. If I had a compound bow that is when I would draw. There is no way that I'd be holding that cross bow to my eye aiming the whole time if that's what you're getting at. The movement of the crossbow up to an aiming position happens at the same time as when the compound hunter is pulling full draw.

Second point......It's not a dead deer just because it's standing broadside at 20 yards. IF you can get the crossbow into an aiming position and get a well aimed shot then yes, it should be a dead deer. The same can be said using a compound bow. If you can draw it and take a well aimed shot then it should be a dead deer.

As far as saying "just pull the trigger" well, why not say that the deer is dead with the compound bow? All that you have to do different is release the trigger.

So as I see it, the way that I hunt anyway, the biggest difference between hunting with a crossbow and a compound bow is the movement that it takes to get your crossbow in an aiming position and the movement that it takes to draw your compound bow and take aim. It may take more effort to draw the bow however, that to me, is not the huge advantage that some people make it out to be.

[elkhunter11]

I am by no means experienced with crossbows,but I have picked one up,and shot tighter groups at 40 yards with a crossbow that I can shoot with a bow.I have seen people that have never used a bow or a crossbow,pick up a crossbow and shoot bull eyes at 40 yards,whereas they couldn't do that at 20 yards with a compound bow the first time out.The range might be the same,but it is much easier for an inexperienced shooter to be accurate with a crossbow,than it is with a compound bow.

[Unregistered user]

Yes

[Stinky Coyote]

Originally Posted by DuckBrat

Yeah...NO.

Please fill me in on where I might be wrong on the ease of shooting crossbow as compared to bow?? How many muscle groups/reps of training does it take to shoot a bow successfully as compared to pointing a crossbow and pulling a trigger?

Yeah.....YES.

most of us took the time to learn about it, do the same, read just the crossbow threads here on ABO and you'll have a better idea, if harvest success rates are the same does that tell you anything?

but if i must.....success rates are 99% hunter 1% tool......ie; having to draw in the presence of game isn't the monster factor people make it out to be, otherwise success rates would show that....so what i'm saying, what the success rates are saying, is....a successful hunter is so regardless of what tool is in his hands, your constantly adapting and changing to suit a hunt and make it happen within the tools limitations.....the tool will never make you a superstar killer

at the very very end of the day....its just another bow