To Crossbow or not to crossbow - That is the question!

[A7ELK]

Originally Posted by Mountain Guy

The more I think about this the clearer it gets. The only conclusion I can come up with is it is a marketing scheme. Plain and simple.
The whole x-bow thing..... if you really want to hunt in bow season than buy a bow !! Gee whiz..
I compare it to a ''fly fishing only water'' Should I lobby to be able to use a wobbler and a worm !! Come on guys, bleeding heart syndrome comes to mind.

Sometimes things aren't quite as clear when your in a foggy tunnel. I will also choose NO.

[HunterDave]

Originally Posted by Mountain Guy

One thing that hasn't been discussed is tuning.
A big part of bowhunting / archery is tuning. You don't just pick a bow off the wall and go hunting. It would appear to me that a x-bow would be more like a [B]rifle[B] in that respect. I've spent alot of time paper tuning broadhead tuning,etc,etc proir to even thinking about hunting with my bow.
Does the same apply to an x-bow??
If the answer is no than that alone is a good enough reason to vote no

Mountain Guy, Yes a crossbow has to be tuned. You can have the same type of fiber optic sights that you would find on a compound bow or a scope that needs to be sighted in just like a rifle scope. I have a red dot scope that is set for 30 yds but I only practice out to 40 yds because I found that my 150 lb crossbow did not have enough penetrating power after that.

With my red dot I have to practice every year just like anyone else to determine where my bolt will hit at 10, 20, 30 (zero) and 40 yds. At 10 yds my bolt hits high enough to make a big difference and at 40 yds it has dropped off ALLOT from zero. I don't have the option of putting my sight on a deer at 40 yds and I have to judge my holdover. But that is the choice that I made with that particular type of scope.

Apparently they now have scopes specific to certain draw weights of crossbows with BDC type recticles that have hash marks for various distances. That's not my thing and I can't tell you anything about them.

[HunterDave]

Originally Posted by lilsundance

When Compounds first came out the traditional archer screamed bloody murder that it was an unfair advantage and shouldn't be allowed in archery season. Seems to me that that is what the compound crowd is arguing about xbows now.

x2 Allot of the same arguments could be made about compound bows having more of an advantage over long bows.

[Pikebreath]

Originally Posted by Mountain Guy

The more I think about this the clearer it gets. The only conclusion I can come up with is it is a marketing scheme. Plain and simple.
The whole x-bow thing..... if you really want to hunt in bow season than buy a bow !! Gee whiz..
I compare it to a ''fly fishing only water'' Should I lobby to be able to use a wobbler and a worm !! Come on guys, bleeding heart syndrome comes to mind.

Actually there is no fly fishing only water here in AB,,,,, in BC, yes, but not here. There are restrictions on terminal tackle such as no bait and barbless etc. Perhaps the hunting comparable would steel shot requrements in waterfowl hunting,,,, minimum bullet and calbre standards forweight,,, arrow length and bow weight,,, etc.

The issue seems to be whether crossbows should be included in archery seasons,,, why don'twe leave current archery, general seasons as is and add a couple week "strings season" for archery and cross bow after the general season is closed. No extra tags, draws stay the same,,,, just more opportunity for hunters who want to hunt with bow or crossbow while not impacting the firearms hunters current opportunities.

[Stinky Coyote]

make no mistake, if you go hunting with a crossbow and actually want to kill something.....you will be bowhunting, in every way

[elkhunter11]

make no mistake, if you go hunting with a crossbow and actually want to kill something.....you will be bowhunting, in every way

Not in every way,you don't have to worry about being seen as you draw a bow,and you don't have to hold a bow at full draw waiting for the perfect shot.In that way a crossbow is like a rifle.You raise the crossbow,aim it like a rifle,and pull the trigger like a rifle..

[Tony_S]

One of the things I find ...'amusing'...I guess you would say, about this whole argument...

Are the people who want the rules changed simply (they state) so they can hunt Archery season with a Crossbow. Fair is fair they argue. Freedom to choose they argue. They argue that the learning curve with a Crossbow is NO different than a Bow. They argue that, if anything...hunting with a Crossbow is MORE difficult than a Bow. They argue that hunting success rate with a Crossbow is the SAME, or very similar to a Bow.

If all this is really true....why don't you just buy a damn Bow....and go hunting?! LOL!! Seems like a MUCH simpler option than the march your all currently on now.

I'll vote NO!

[elkhunter11]

They argue that the learning curve with a Crossbow is NO different than a Bow. They argue that, if anything...hunting with a Crossbow is MORE difficult than a Bow. They argue that hunting success rate with a Crossbow is the SAME, or very similar to a Bow.

If all this is really true....why don't you just buy a damn Bow....and go hunting?! LOL!! Seems like a MUCH simpler option...

That makes way too much sense.

[270WIN]

Originally Posted by Tony_S

They argue that the learning curve with a Crossbow is NO different than a Bow. They argue that, if anything...hunting with a Crossbow is MORE difficult than a Bow. They argue that hunting success rate with a Crossbow is the SAME, or very similar to a Bow.

If all this is really true....why don't you just buy a damn Bow....and go hunting?! LOL!! Seems like a MUCH simpler option than the march your all currently on now.

I'll vote NO!

Well said, Tony.
That's what I was trying to say in my previous post. You said it better.

[HunterDave]

Originally Posted by Tony_S

Are the people who want the rules changed simply (they state) so they can hunt Archery season with a Crossbow. Fair is fair they argue. Freedom to choose they argue. They argue that the learning curve with a Crossbow is NO different than a Bow. They argue that, if anything...hunting with a Crossbow is MORE difficult than a Bow. They argue that hunting success rate with a Crossbow is the SAME, or very similar to a Bow.

I don't necessarily agree with what you say "they" stated but all the same arguments can be made about compound bows vs long bows.

Let's just drop the crossbow idea and at the same time eliminate compound bows from archery season! It's too much of an advantage!

I already hunt with a crossbow and I voted YES so that other people can enjoy the sport. I realize that most people will vote for what's best for them, but not everyone. I'll vote for what's best for the sport.

[270WIN]

Originally Posted by HunterDave

Let's just drop the crossbow idea and at the same time eliminate compound bows from archery season! It's too much of an advantage!

How did I know that was coming?

[Tony_S]

Originally Posted by HunterDave

I don't necessarily agree with what you say "they" stated but all the same arguments can be made about compound bows vs long bows.

Sure....I'm not going to argue that. That's not the issue here though.

Let's just drop the crossbow idea and at the same time eliminate compound bows from archery season! It's too much of an advantage!

You know how I'd handle that one?? I'd go out and buy a recurve and go hunting instead of pizzing and moaning.

I'll vote for what's best for the sport.

Me too!

[Mountain Guy]

You know how I'd handle that one?? I'd go out and buy a recurve and go hunting instead of pizzing and moaning.



Bang on bro...

[Mountain Guy]

Originally Posted by Pikebreath

Actually there is no fly fishing only water here in AB,,,,, in BC, yes, but not here. There are restrictions on terminal tackle such as no bait and barbless etc. Perhaps the hunting comparable would steel shot requrements in waterfowl hunting,,,, minimum bullet and calbre standards forweight,,, arrow length and bow weight,,, etc.

The issue seems to be whether crossbows should be included in archery seasons,,, why don'twe leave current archery, general seasons as is and add a couple week "strings season" for archery and cross bow after the general season is closed. No extra tags, draws stay the same,,,, just more opportunity for hunters who want to hunt with bow or crossbow while not impacting the firearms hunters current opportunities.

You've obviously never fished Medicine Lk. before.

Sorry to get off topic.

[packhuntr]

Originally Posted by Mountain Guy

You know how I'd handle that one?? I'd go out and buy a recurve and go hunting instead of pizzing and moaning.



Bang on bro...

You got that right boys. Long live the opportunity to be ARCHER'S in Alberta!

[livinthedream]

I have voted NO! Despite that I agree with many of the posters that cross bows will not provide an advantage over regular bows in many situations, there are definately some areas of concern. I do all my bow hunting in WMU 212. The Calgary bow zone is comprised of a wide variety of terrain - prairies, river valleys, agriculture zones and small acreage developments. For the most part, getting within 60 yards of a mature game animal requires considerable skill. Getting an arrow into the vitals another level of expertise. Cross bow hunters will be on a level playing field with "vertical" bow hunters. Where I am concerned about a possible un-level playing field is in and around the acreage developments. Game animals in these areas tend to be accustomed to vehicle traffic. They often do not even look up when a vehicle drives by. Now when most people talk about road hunting they tend to refer to rifle hunters. It is far easier to shoot a rifle out of a open truck window or to jump out and fire a rifle then it is to do the same with a "vertical" bow. In fact it is impossible to shoot a vertical bow out the truck window! The same can't be said for a loaded and cocked cross bow. The cross bow can be a very efficient and deadly poaching tool. This past summer there were several incidents of poachers on Vancouver Island killing mature trophy Black-Tails in residential areas in and around Victoria. Cross bow bolts were recovered and in one case the poacher was apprehended and his cross bow confiscated. Now don't get me wrong, this issue is about allowing cross bow hunters (not poachers) to hunt along side regular bow hunters. I'm just worried about the possibility of a new breed of road hunters developing due to the proliferation of a compact, quiet and deadly weapon.

[petew]

Can't help wonder how many posting on here are not Alberta Residents?
and .. will the survey be sent to those with Non Resident licenses?
I hope not.

I have not rec'd my survey, but when it comes I will definately vote no to crossbows in Archery season.
I shoot selfbows , and modern longbows and recurves, archery and bowhunting at it's finest is with a stick and string.
Pete.

[A7ELK]

[QUOTE=HunterDave;768158]
I already hunt with a crossbow and I voted YES so that other people can enjoy the sport.QUOTE]

What OTHER people

[madatter]

I see it in a different light:
Bow hunters get more time in field than any other type of hunter,generally speaking.
They also get to be out there with other bow hunters,no rifles,muzzleloaders whatever.
So now skip to the crossbow,which in so many ways compares to a bow,depending on which "expert" you talk to.
May have an advantage or two....again depends on which "expert" you talk to.
Now let's get the Xbolt guys to hunt with the rifle guys cause it's more of a rifle.....really?
Practically everyone here sees the Xbolt as a bow with slight advantages at best but the bow guys have no problem whatsoever in having the Xbolt at an extreme disadvantage during rifle season.
Almost everyone thinks that the hunter is the greatest factor in the success ratio with either.
Personally I don't care either way but think the Xbolt guys are getting the shaft so to speak.
Make em legal in bow season or give em a few weeks to hunt at least before rifle.....oh wait the bow guys probably don't want that either....

[ghglenn]

Originally Posted by livinthedream

I have voted NO! Despite that I agree with many of the posters that cross bows will not provide an advantage over regular bows in many situations, there are definately some areas of concern. I do all my bow hunting in WMU 212. The Calgary bow zone is comprised of a wide variety of terrain - prairies, river valleys, agriculture zones and small acreage developments. For the most part, getting within 60 yards of a mature game animal requires considerable skill. Getting an arrow into the vitals another level of expertise. Cross bow hunters will be on a level playing field with "vertical" bow hunters. Where I am concerned about a possible un-level playing field is in and around the acreage developments. Game animals in these areas tend to be accustomed to vehicle traffic. They often do not even look up when a vehicle drives by. Now when most people talk about road hunting they tend to refer to rifle hunters. It is far easier to shoot a rifle out of a open truck window or to jump out and fire a rifle then it is to do the same with a "vertical" bow. In fact it is impossible to shoot a vertical bow out the truck window! The same can't be said for a loaded and cocked cross bow. The cross bow can be a very efficient and deadly poaching tool. This past summer there were several incidents of poachers on Vancouver Island killing mature trophy Black-Tails in residential areas in and around Victoria. Cross bow bolts were recovered and in one case the poacher was apprehended and his cross bow confiscated. Now don't get me wrong, this issue is about allowing cross bow hunters (not poachers) to hunt along side regular bow hunters. I'm just worried about the possibility of a new breed of road hunters developing due to the proliferation of a compact, quiet and deadly weapon.

You have no clue.

Ohio man pleads guilty to poaching largest deer killed in North America in 2009 with a compound bow:

http://naweoa.org/joomla15/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=92h io-man-pleads-guilty-to-poaching-largest-deer-killed-in-north-america-in-2009&catid=4:us-news&Itemid=82

[270WIN]

Originally Posted by madatter

I see it in a different light:

Personally I don't care either way but think the Xbolt guys are getting the shaft so to speak.
Make em legal in bow season or give em a few weeks to hunt at least before rifle.....oh wait the bow guys probably don't want that either....

Or carve a couple of weeks out of November for cross bow hunting only. How many on here would vote for that?

[elkhunter11]

Or carve a couple of weeks out of November for cross bow hunting only. How many on here would vote for that?

Not at the expense of the general season.I would rather see a short primitive season in December after the general seasons close.Allow bows,crossbows,or muzzle loaders.

[packhuntr]

It would only make sence if a season were to be created for muzzle loaders, shotgun and crossbow (primitive weapons season) that it be ranked by difficulty of harvest. Early season game is unpressured as a rule. The more pressure on them, the more advanced the tools required to meet harvest initiatives. Start off with archery only, move into primitive weapons, then into general to wrap out the hunting season. I would not be opposed to something like this Alberta wide. Season lengths, who knows what would be best, but I do not agree with anything other than muscular drawn archery equipment in archery season. As far as draws and wait times, if it would be found to be required for archers, sure, I say bring on change that is required. Just leave archery season alone, please vote to let folk that desire CHALLENGE in thier outdoor adventures, the opportunity to do so in Alberta!

[madatter]

Originally Posted by packhuntr

It would only make sence if a season were to be created for muzzle loaders, shotgun and crossbow (primitive weapons season) that it be ranked by difficulty of harvest. Early season game is unpressured as a rule. The more pressure on them, the more advanced the tools required to meet harvest initiatives. Start off with archery only, move into primitive weapons, then into general to wrap out the hunting season. I would not be opposed to something like this Alberta wide. Season lengths, who knows what would be best, but I do not agree with anything other than muscular drawn archery equipment in archery season. As far as draws and wait times, if it would be found to be required for archers, sure, I say bring on change that is required. Just leave archery season alone, please vote to let folk that desire CHALLENGE in thier outdoor adventures, the opportunity to do so in Alberta!

What I was saying.......
To put the Xbolt or primitive weapons after general rifle season may be a season but not really fair either...

[elkhunter11]

To put the Xbolt or primitive weapons after general rifle season may be a season but not really fair either...

The alternative could be three separate seasons,archery first,then primitive weapons(crossbow/muzzleloader) then general.Leave the general season as is,because any weapon can be used in that season,but move up the archery season two weeks,and have a two week primitive season.

[madatter]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

The alternative could be three separate seasons,archery first,then primitive weapons(crossbow/muzzleloader) then general.Leave the general season as is,because any weapon can be used in that season,but move up the archery season two weeks,and have a two week primitive season.

Now that's something that everybody could be happy with....I think!
It makes sense so it probably won't happen....
It would make buying that Xbolt or muzzleloader much more feasible

[RobinHood]

According to Srd, and the discussion I had with them. When the crossbow is introduced into the archery season, it will only be open in specific Wmu's, not Province wide. Their main focus behind all this is is increasing harvests in high density zones such as 212,248. Unfortunately they fail to realize they have a huge access problem in those zones, that maybe the biggest factor in low harvests. On top of that the provincial government keeps adding parks and nature reserves, inside those zones. The theory may work on paper, but real life will show how it didn't work. It may create bigger problems ahead, and leave all hunters , for and against unhappy.

[J.B.]

Originally Posted by elkhunter11

The alternative could be three separate seasons,archery first,then primitive weapons(crossbow/muzzleloader) then general.Leave the general season as is,because any weapon can be used in that season,but move up the archery season two weeks,and have a two week primitive season.

X million....is there a comment section on the survey? if so, EVERYONE should be lobbying for additional seasons to INCREASE opportunity.

Ill be voting no, but i would vote heck yes on adding a two week primitive weapons season and bumping archery up to sept. 1 instead of this wed. after labor day idea...

[elkhunter11]

X million....is there a comment section on the survey? if so, EVERYONE should be lobbying for additional seasons to INCREASE opportunity.

Just be aware ,that if more seasons result in an increased harvest,there will be more draw seasons implemented,and the tag numbers for existing draw seasons might be reduced.There may be more seasons,but you might not be able to spend more time hunting ,because you may not draw a tag.In fact,if the archery general season becomes a draw,it might actually reduce your hunting opportunity.

Originally Posted by RobinHood

According to Srd, and the discussion I had with them. When the crossbow is introduced into the archery season, it will only be open in specific Wmu's, not Province wide. Their main focus behind all this is is increasing harvests in high density zones such as 212,248. Unfortunately they fail to realize they have a huge access problem in those zones, that maybe the biggest factor in low harvests. On top of that the provincial government keeps adding parks and nature reserves, inside those zones. The theory may work on paper, but real life will show how it didn't work. It may create bigger problems ahead, and leave all hunters , for and against unhappy.

My understanding is that if the crossbow gets the go ahead in archery season...it will effectively have the same status as a compound bow and be eligible for use in all archery seasons.