Of, For, And By the People...?

[Rocky7]

Originally Posted by rugatika

It wouldn't matter if Jesus Christ himself was running the country. If he wanted to get elected again he would have to pander to the people that voted him in, in the first place. The problem isn't the politicians, it's the people that demand their 6 weeks holidays, free healthcare, noses wiped, kids looked after, subsidized flute players, and pointy toed dance troupes.

You can say throw your hat in the ring, but anyone that actually told the people what needed to be done to set this country straight would be laughed out of town. People's attitudes need to change before politicians will change. And frankly, that just ain't gonna happen. It's a written in stone cycle that every civilization goes through. And the funny part is I can tell everyone here to do their own research, look at history and what happens to "entitlement" civilizations .......

I'll just add...Harper tried clamping down on gov't spending, letting his members speak their minds etc. What happened is the people blew their minds when he made a slight cut in arts funding, or if one of his members made an awkward or stupid remark the media absolutely slayed him for it.

We .... get the gov't the majority deserves, whether every individual Canadian deserves it or not.

x2

Well said. There's no free lunch, notwithstanding all those who believe otherwise. It's that way in nature and it's that way for us, too, and all the big words and computer games in the world don't change it one iota.

[rugatika]

Originally Posted by ESOXangler

You are right! It's the main plan of the new world order! I

Ha, it has nothing to do with conspiracy theories or tinfoil hats. It's called human nature. Every generation has it easier than the last, until a point is reached where the proverbial free lunch is expected and demanded by the majority.

[ice]

Wait... Canada is still listed as a free country? Coulda fooled me

[rugatika]

Originally Posted by Whiskey Wish

[B][I]

I believe that this is called a Democracy. You know, where the majority rules. If the majority of the people want 6 weeks vacation, free healthcare etc then that is how the Democracy will vote and that is the government that will be formed.

It is odd how everyone believes that 10 votes beats 9 votes unless they happen to be one of the 9 votes.

And to quote Dilbert "Correlation does not necessarily mean Causation." If you look at history long enough you will see that ALL civilizations come to an end.
Regards,
Dave.

Like 10 wolves and 9 sheep voting what's for dinner??? (or to characterize it more accurately, 10 welfare recipients and 9 taxpayers voting for increased gov't spending)

Thanks for making my point. If the majority of people in a democracy want 6 weeks vacation, etc etc, then that is what they will vote for. Exactly!! And each generation wants a little more, and a little more and a little more. Man this "free" stuff from the government is awesome!! Why shouldn't everyone get all the stuff they want for "free"? Why put a limit on it?

Democracy is the majority of the people voting for the path they want their state to take. Nowhere is it written that the majority always picks the right path.

[Classic_Cool]

Originally Posted by Whiskey Wish

[B][I]

I believe that this is called a Democracy. You know, where the majority rules. If the majority of the people want 6 weeks vacation, free healthcare etc then that is how the Democracy will vote and that is the government that will be formed.

It is odd how everyone believes that 10 votes beats 9 votes unless they happen to be one of the 9 votes.

And to quote Dilbert "Correlation does not necessarily mean Causation." If you look at history long enough you will see that ALL civilizations come to an end.
Regards,
Dave.

Democracy has been a holy word in North America for hundreds of years.

I was gonna say alot about that but I got tired of hearing myself talk

I'll just say that democracy doesn't equal survival. Atleast not by default.

[HyperMOA]

Originally Posted by Whiskey Wish

[B][I]
I believe that this is called a Democracy. You know, where the majority rules. If the majority of the people want 6 weeks vacation, free healthcare etc then that is how the Democracy will vote and that is the government that will be formed.

I would have to disagree with you Whiskey. Democracy is supposed to derive its power from a mandate of the people. (thus majority rules) However, when the masses are given a say only once every 4 years then the voice of the people has been silenced. Political parties destroy democracy; and as long as we vote for parties and parties exist we are only fooling ourselves if we believe we exist within a democracy. Democracy is supposed to be the representation of the people, with the ability to speak the mind of the masses without punishment. When we elect a political party and then they choose a leader all we have done is incur a dictatorship.

[silverdoctor]

Originally Posted by Okotokian

Uhhhhh... speeding ticket yesterday perhaps????????

No actually, just getting tired of people griping but not doing...

[rugatika]

Originally Posted by silverdoctor

No actually, just getting tired of people griping but not doing...

Lots of people have tried to run this country honourably, (Preston Manning comes to mind) and they have been shown the door. Canadians don't want an honest government. They want free stuff!!! (and the Lord help the man that tells them they can't have it) Gov't subsidized wages, and holidays, and unicorn drawn chariots for everyone.

[ESOXangler]

Originally Posted by rugatika

Ha, it has nothing to do with conspiracy theories or tinfoil hats. It's called human nature. Every generation has it easier than the last, until a point is reached where the proverbial free lunch is expected and demanded by the majority.

NWO was just a joke haha. I used to disagree with a lot you said but as of late I'm finding myself agreeing more and more. Your a bit of a chicken little because what's happening will still take many more generations to fruit. But you are right about big government, it's human nature to meddle and eventually meddling causes a blow out. It's just when and where that we need to worry about I suppose.

Also a book called Rubicon by Tom Holland is something everyone should consider reading. Really shows the fall of the roman republic from a politics view alone. Change names and it could easily take place today.

[Nait Hadya]

[QUOTE...The people as a government would most likely cut military spending more than it already is and potentially vote to deny rights for minorities like gays...[/QUOTE]

gays are not a "minority", saying so implies they are an accepted part of society,they are not. if your born in this country you have limited rights just as anyone else,nothing more,nothing less.

[rugatika]

Originally Posted by ESOXangler

NWO was just a joke haha. I used to disagree with a lot you said but as of late I'm finding myself agreeing more and more. Your a bit of a chicken little because what's happening will still take many more generations to fruit. But you are right about big government, it's human nature to meddle and eventually meddling causes a blow out. It's just when and where that we need to worry about I suppose.

Also a book called Rubicon by Tom Holland is something everyone should consider reading. Really shows the fall of the roman republic from a politics view alone. Change names and it could easily take place today.

Well Canada does have many things going for it that could delay the blowout. We have a huge amount of natural resources and a relatively small population. I expect oil to be replaced by some other resource within my generation (or maybe the next) though. Maybe hydrogen, nuclear, or who knows...The loss of Cdn income for fossil fuels and possibly hydro power sales would have a devastating effect on our GDP.

[Yéil]

Hard to get riled up that we're all sheep when the Canadian Constitutional basis springs from Peace, Order and Good Government - rather a sheep herding mentality from the get-go.

[Classic_Cool]

Originally Posted by Nait Hadya

gays are not a "minority", saying so implies they are an accepted part of society,they are not. if your born in this country you have limited rights just as anyone else,nothing more,nothing less.QUOTE]

By minority I meant that they are a visible group with less power than the majority.

If the country was ruled by vote then there's a decent chance they'd be voted back into the closet. Or in some less friendly countries they'd be voted into prison. Its been done.

And anyway the gays are only an example. As the OP said, gun owners in Canada are outnumbered by the non-gun owners. If that was put to a vote then there's an excellent chance every gun in the country would end up in the furnace.

So while a government should listen to its people, it also has to temper its response so that one chunk of the population doesn't trample on another. That balance is lost if we take a vote on everything.

[Rocky7]

Originally Posted by Classic_Cool

By minority I meant that they are a visible group ....

No, they're not.

That balance is lost if we take a vote on everything.

Voting means nothing unless informed votes are cast with freedom.

If we do not speak freely (and that is most definitely not allowed in this country), voting is an illusion.

If voters are not fully informed (and they most definitely are not in this country), voting is mostly a waste of time.

We suffer from a lack of free speech and a lack of journalists. No small things.

[Classic_Cool]

Originally Posted by Rocky7

No, they're not.

What?

[Redfrog]

Hey Pesky, Don't blame I didn't vote for her.

Clean up your own dang mess. I told you it would taste like crap and here you are complaining it tastes like crap.

You Red queen supporters still think it was smart to vote her in because someone somewhere said his religion said that Gays would "go to hell". What else would trip your trigger? Ah I know someone somewhere said they would lower taxes. or wait I know, the checks in the mail.

Has queenie even said anything about the expense gate scandal?

I heard on the right wing radio that Alberta health services has one bureaucrat for 1400 patients, and Germany with no wait times has one for 15,000.

Can one of you Redfern supporters fix that?

I'd fix it, but I didn't vote for her.

[Okotokian]

Originally Posted by Redfrog

Hey Pesky, Don't blame I didn't vote for her.

Clean up your own dang mess. I told you it would taste like crap and here you are complaining it tastes like crap.

Think ya missed on that one Red. Pesky wasn't complaining about Redford's government, or any government. He was giving some advice about what to do to the usual gang here that do nothing but belly-ache and put "I didn't vote for her" as their tag-line.

The actual example of a slack-azz government official he agreed with another poster about was actually an Alberta MP... one of Harper's gang.

[Tactical Lever]

Harper and Danielle are steps in the right direction. Too bad about Wildrose, and all the fear mongering that followed the party. You'd think that they were calling to round up all the gays for work camp... (There was no anti gay agenda)

Back to business as usual, more gov control and less personal choice from Nanny Redford.

It's a tough slog ahead to reverse 40+ years of social engineering.

[greylynx]

Originally Posted by Yéil

Hard to get riled up that we're all sheep when the Canadian Constitutional basis springs from Peace, Order and Good Government - rather a sheep herding mentality from the get-go.

Peace, Order, Good Governement.

Weasel talk for a constitution that protects the government from the people versus the U.S. constitution that is supposed to protect the people from the goverment.

The Canadian Constitution sucks.

But look who made it.

[Big Daddy Badger]

Originally Posted by Rocky7

I would have thought it was obvious.

The point is that we were here arguing for change, and making a solid case, and those who cut and ran when the media and the PC party implied there was some threat to homo-sexual rights and/or they would have to suffer the indignity of being represented by someone who believes in God, are the ones to blame.

Government can never be fixed as long as we have voters who topple over at the first puff of a Politically Correct Wind.

Why do I blame them? Because they are guilty. Pretty simple.

I have a question of my own. Where's their apology? They made this mess just months ago (I believe you were one of them) and now it's a "we" problem? Nope. It's your problem.

You broke it, you own it.

Either that, or celebrate the gain in your precious homo-sexual rights and freedom from religion and quit complaining yourself. If that's all that was important to those people a few months ago, that's all that is important to them now.

Thats just a cop out and I never voted for her either.

[silverdoctor]

I think some have misunderstood my initial thread...

I'm an IT consultant, and spend alot of time at different companies on a daily basis. I constantly hear people whining about the loss of rights we've been facing over the years but none are willing to stand up and tell the gov't to stay the heck out of their business...

What is it going to take for the 20+ million sheep in this country to stand up and say enough is enough...?


Consequently, I heard a news clip today that the TSA in the states with all their groping and upsetting people have 3X the approval rating that the US Congress has.

The TSA approval rating isn't great, doesn't say much about congress...

[marse robert]

"If voting made any difference, they wouldn't let us do it"
Mark Twain

[Rocky7]

Originally Posted by Tactical Lever

Harper and Danielle are steps in the right direction. Too bad about Wildrose, and all the fear mongering that followed the party. You'd think that they were calling to round up all the gays for work camp... (There was no anti gay agenda)

Back to business as usual, more gov control and less personal choice from Nanny Redford.

It's a tough slog ahead to reverse 40+ years of social engineering.

Too true. I don't believe it's impossible, tho. If we got here, we can re-trace our steps.

I hate the way lefties always steer political issues to hom0-sexual "rights". I'm to the point where I'd willingly pay the 2% that live as homo-sexual, trans-sexual, sexual-sexual, whatever sexual, to just leave the province and go somewhere else. Maybe then we could focus on real issues. Sexual stuff can remain private between the participants; it's not anyone else's concern.

[Big Daddy Badger]

Originally Posted by silverdoctor

I think some have misunderstood my initial thread...

I'm an IT consultant, and spend alot of time at different companies on a daily basis. I constantly hear people whining about the loss of rights we've been facing over the years but none are willing to stand up and tell the gov't to stay the heck out of their business...

What is it going to take for the 20+ million sheep in this country to stand up and say enough is enough...?


Consequently, I heard a news clip today that the TSA in the states with all their groping and upsetting people have 3X the approval rating that the US Congress has.

The TSA approval rating isn't great, doesn't say much about congress...

So suffice to say...."real conservatives", run of the mill conservatives, liberals, dippers and even homosexuals all have a common frustration related to the erosion of rights?

And that it isn't a problem that can be legitimately assigned to one political party or to one very recent election?


I guess that would mean that generally... we're all in the same sinking boat and instead of working together... we're arguing about who made the hole and who should bail?

Hmmmm what a concept.....that would mean we'd all have to work together to demand change...across the political spectrum...

To bad we seem so eager to let politicians divide and conquer.

[vcmm]

Originally Posted by pesky672

So suffice to say...."real conservatives", run of the mill conservatives, liberals, dippers and even homosexuals all have a common frustration related to the erosion of rights?

And that it isn't a problem that can be legitimately assigned to one political party or to one very recent election?


I guess that would mean that generally... we're all in the same sinking boat and instead of working together... we're arguing about who made the hole and who should bail?

Hmmmm what a concept.....that would mean we'd all have to work together to demand change...across the political spectrum...

To bad we seem so eager to let politicians divide and conquer.

Wake up pesky your dreaming

[Big Daddy Badger]

Originally Posted by Rocky7

Too true. I don't believe it's impossible, tho. If we got here, we can re-trace our steps.

I hate the way lefties always steer political issues to hom0-sexual "rights". I'm to the point where I'd willingly pay the 2% that live as homo-sexual, trans-sexual, sexual-sexual, whatever sexual, to just leave the province and go somewhere else. Maybe then we could focus on real issues. Sexual stuff can remain private between the participants; it's not anyone else's concern.

If you think any politician is going to restore your rights out of the goodness of their hearts I have news for you.

Harper gave to gun owners but that may be transient.
However...while do so he nibbled away at the rights of EVERY Canadian within the Omnibus bill.

So far I think he's a bit shy of breaking even on the whole rights protection thing...
Probably no worse than the Liberals or the NDP would have done but not a whole lot better either.

[Big Daddy Badger]

Originally Posted by vcmm

Wake up pesky your dreaming

As is my right...at least until the mind police find me....

[vcmm]

Originally Posted by pesky672

As is my right...at least until the mind police find me....

Your rights belong to the Red Devil

[Classic_Cool]

Originally Posted by Rocky7

Too true. I don't believe it's impossible, tho. If we got here, we can re-trace our steps.

I hate the way lefties always steer political issues to hom0-sexual "rights". I'm to the point where I'd willingly pay the 2% that live as homo-sexual, trans-sexual, sexual-sexual, whatever sexual, to just leave the province and go somewhere else. Maybe then we could focus on real issues. Sexual stuff can remain private between the participants; it's not anyone else's concern.

Not just lefties. The gay rights thing gets used by every political party in one way or another.

Its just so fun to argue about

[Big Daddy Badger]

Originally Posted by Redfrog

Hey Pesky, Don't blame I didn't vote for her.

Clean up your own dang mess. I told you it would taste like crap and here you are complaining it tastes like crap.

You Red queen supporters still think it was smart to vote her in because someone somewhere said his religion said that Gays would "go to hell". What else would trip your trigger? Ah I know someone somewhere said they would lower taxes. or wait I know, the checks in the mail.

Has queenie even said anything about the expense gate scandal?

I heard on the right wing radio that Alberta health services has one bureaucrat for 1400 patients, and Germany with no wait times has one for 15,000.

Can one of you Redfern supporters fix that?

I'd fix it, but I didn't vote for her.

You freaking guys kill me...

Hey Red Frog I don't know how many times U have to say it...I DIDN"T VOTE FOR HER EITHER.
I VOTED WILD ROSE.

I just don't try to blame everything wrong in the whole damn country on one election result or one woman named Redford.

And I wasn't so delusional that I expected a homophobe that didn't have the smarts to present himself as objective to win in an urban riding or a fledgling party to actually win more than the opposition...which they did.