Thoughts on a mule deer outfitter?

[huntwat]

So there is really no good reason. Make all the tags available to residents. But only very third year. And have the same rules for non residents.

[binocular]

It’s very easy to fix. If an Alberta resident has to be drawn for a tag, then there shall be no tags available to anybody outside the province. Problem solved! Perfect time to implement it with the current COVID travel restrictions.

[huntwat]

Originally Posted by binocular

It’s very easy to fix. If an Alberta resident has to be drawn for a tag, then there shall be no tags available to anybody outside the province. Problem solved! Perfect time to implement it with the current COVID travel restrictions.

I agree

[W921]

My understanding is that Alberta outfitters are self regulated. I know that sounds crazy but thats what they used to be. Anyway dont hold your breath for change.

[Justfishin73]

Originally Posted by binocular

It’s very easy to fix. If an Alberta resident has to be drawn for a tag, then there shall be no tags available to anybody outside the province. Problem solved! Perfect time to implement it with the current COVID travel restrictions.

X2

[35 whelen]

X3

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[Rackmastr]

Its an interesting fine line obviously, as anyone who has wanted to hunt mountain goats in BC would realize that if each province did the same there wouldn't be as much opportunity to hunt species like grizzly bears (in the past in BC obviously), goats in a lot of areas, etc, etc.

For a guy who likes the opportunity to travel and hunt different species, there is obviously a fine line of having no non-resident tags for any species on draw. But creates some interesting conversations for sure.

Another good example is pronghorn in all States. If a State closed all non-resident tags off where residents had to draw, there would be no opportunity to visit these states or hunt pronghorn there.


A few states have got it figured out really well with resident/non-resident pools and drawing.

[waterhaulerhunter]

I’m more than happy to wait an extra year or two to hunt certain species here, as I like travelling and enjoy hunting other places. Do people really believe that getting rid of outfitter allocations is going to drastically cut wait times down? Is antelope all of a sudden going to be a 4-5yr wait instead of a 10-15? Or these high priority mule deer zones will all of a sudden be every other year if there’s no outfitters. I can go hunt antelope in Wyoming even if I wish on an over the counter tag and the cost is very small. But if all of a sudden that opportunity is gone I’d sure be upset.

[walking buffalo]

Originally Posted by huntwat

What would that solid reason be?

As has been given already, Outfitter allocations are limited to NR use only to prevent Residents from using these for personal use, which would basically equate to privatization of Our wildlife. Buy a Pronghorn allocation and hunt Pronghorns every year....

Unfortunately, International trade agreements allow NR to own these allocations, which thus allow NR to own and use these allocations every year.

So while Alberta has legislated a system that reduces the possibility of privatizing wildlife for Residents, the same rules have opened the door for NR to basically own and use our wildlife.

Originally Posted by huntwat

So there is really no good reason. Make all the tags available to residents. But only very third year. And have the same rules for non residents.

Since you appear to have no problem with privatization of wildlife....

The main reasoning that Outfitter allocations were developed in the first place was to Expand the economy and provide employment.
The Outfitter association lobbying for allocations argued for and accepted the specific condition that these allocations were to be allowed for the purpose to bring in NEW (out of Province) dollars into the economy.

Outfitter allocations were lobbied for and given under the condition that they sourced money from Outside of the province.

Allowing Residents to use Outfitter allocations goes against the very economic reason the allocations exist. Resident use of allocations does not introduce New money into the economy, and Resident use of self owned allocations would not even provide any amount economic cycling.


Rackmastr offers a very important aspect of continuing to allow NR hunting of ALL huntable species. Being greedy in not allowing others to hunt here only exacerbates other jurisdictions into not allowing NR (you) to hunt in their area.

We've already read it several times in this thread of people going outside of Alberta to hunt. Well, with the attitude of Alberta should eliminate NRs from hunting here, you should expect for Albertans to not be allowed to hunt anywhere else.
Is this really what you want?

While it seems fashionable to think that Alberta (or other provinces) owns the wildlife in its jurisdiction, that is not correct. Canada holds all wildlife in Trust for ALL Canadians. The provinces manage the wildlife within their jurisdiction. What Saskatchewan has done is contrary to Canadian law and the North American Model of Wildlife Management.


There are great concerns with Outfitter allocations involving unfair NR access and privatization of Wildlife.

The solution is simple. Eliminate Outfitter allocations.
Allow NR to apply in the draw system with a limited number of tags available.
NR that draw a tag and want to hire an Outfitter can do so if they want to.

[35 whelen]

I am by all means not saying Outfitters should be kicked out of the province and all their allocations taken away only the ones that we have to wait on for draws for 10 12 15 years, let them hunt elk and deer if they want to come up and hunt put in draws for moose and Antelope and mule deer like the rest of us.

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[W921]

If you look at the photos on these outfitters web sites. Does the game look like game your going to find on public or private land that allows the public access to in the south west?
When there is big money involved private ranch land seems to become restricted to outfitter access only.

[albertadave]

Originally Posted by walking buffalo

As has been given already, Outfitter allocations are limited to NR use only to prevent Residents from using these for personal use, which would basically equate to privatization of Our wildlife. Buy a Pronghorn allocation and hunt Pronghorns every year....

Unfortunately, International trade agreements allow NR to own these allocations, which thus allow NR to own and use these allocations every year.

So while Alberta has legislated a system that reduces the possibility of privatizing wildlife for Residents, the same rules have opened the door for NR to basically own and use our wildlife.





Since you appear to have no problem with privatization of wildlife....

The main reasoning that Outfitter allocations were developed in the first place was to Expand the economy and provide employment.
The Outfitter association lobbying for allocations argued for and accepted the specific condition that these allocations were to be allowed for the purpose to bring in NEW (out of Province) dollars into the economy.

Outfitter allocations were lobbied for and given under the condition that they sourced money from Outside of the province.

Allowing Residents to use Outfitter allocations goes against the very economic reason the allocations exist. Resident use of allocations does not introduce New money into the economy, and Resident use of self owned allocations would not even provide any amount economic cycling.


Rackmastr offers a very important aspect of continuing to allow NR hunting of ALL huntable species. Being greedy in not allowing others to hunt here only exacerbates other jurisdictions into not allowing NR (you) to hunt in their area.

We've already read it several times in this thread of people going outside of Alberta to hunt. Well, with the attitude of Alberta should eliminate NRs from hunting here, you should expect for Albertans to not be allowed to hunt anywhere else.
Is this really what you want?

While it seems fashionable to think that Alberta (or other provinces) owns the wildlife in its jurisdiction, that is not correct. Canada holds all wildlife in Trust for ALL Canadians. The provinces manage the wildlife within their jurisdiction. What Saskatchewan has done is contrary to Canadian law and the North American Model of Wildlife Management.


There are great concerns with Outfitter allocations involving unfair NR access and privatization of Wildlife.

The solution is simple. Eliminate Outfitter allocations.
Allow NR to apply in the draw system with a limited number of tags available.
NR that draw a tag and want to hire an Outfitter can do so if they want to.

X 1,000,000
This is exactly how many states operate with regard to non-residents.

[Rackmastr]

Great post WB!

[35 whelen]

Did you find an Outfitter yet to hunt with in Alberta

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[huntwat]

Originally Posted by walking buffalo

As has been given already, Outfitter allocations are limited to NR use only to prevent Residents from using these for personal use, which would basically equate to privatization of Our wildlife. Buy a Pronghorn allocation and hunt Pronghorns every year....

Unfortunately, International trade agreements allow NR to own these allocations, which thus allow NR to own and use these allocations every year.

So while Alberta has legislated a system that reduces the possibility of privatizing wildlife for Residents, the same rules have opened the door for NR to basically own and use our wildlife.





Since you appear to have no problem with privatization of wildlife....
At no time have I ever indicated that I agree with privitization of wildlife. Sorry that you think that I appeared to have.

The main reasoning that Outfitter allocations were developed in the first place was to Expand the economy and provide employment.
The Outfitter association lobbying for allocations argued for and accepted the specific condition that these allocations were to be allowed for the purpose to bring in NEW (out of Province) dollars into the economy. There would still be some species available for non-residents

Outfitter allocations were lobbied for and given under the condition that they sourced money from Outside of the province.

Allowing Residents to use Outfitter allocations goes against the very economic reason the allocations exist. Resident use of allocations does not introduce New money into the economy, and Resident use of self owned allocations would not even provide any amount economic cycling.
Our economy will be very minimally affected the amount of NR coming to the province.


Rackmastr offers a very important aspect of continuing to allow NR hunting of ALL huntable species. Being greedy in not allowing others to hunt here only exacerbates other jurisdictions into not allowing NR (you) to hunt in their area.

We've already read it several times in this thread of people going outside of Alberta to hunt. Well, with the attitude of Alberta should eliminate NRs from hunting here, you should expect for Albertans to not be allowed to hunt anywhere else.
Is this really what you want? It is happening anyway. Lets get with the times.

While it seems fashionable to think that Alberta (or other provinces) owns the wildlife in its jurisdiction, that is not correct. Canada holds all wildlife in Trust for ALL Canadians. The provinces manage the wildlife within their jurisdiction. What Saskatchewan has done is contrary to Canadian law and the North American Model of Wildlife Management. I'm ok with that


There are great concerns with Outfitter allocations involving unfair NR access and privatization of Wildlife.

The solution is simple. Eliminate Outfitter allocations.
Allow NR to apply in the draw system with a limited number of tags available.
NR that draw a tag and want to hire an Outfitter can do so if they want to. This would be a good solution. Or, maybe allow 2 tags in a lifetime. Instead of a tag every year. When residents have to wait upwards of 15 years.

My name is Henry Viney.....

[runnin'wild]

Thanks everyone for the updates and suggestions for outfitters. At the moment I'm finalizing details for a mountain mulie hunt, less deer to see but always the chance for a cranker but I'll be happy with an adventure in the Rockies alone, a good deer will be the bonus.

I'm still checking other options as I'm waiting to hear back on the odd other hunt but damn sure I'll go with the above mentioned hunt.

Once I sign a contract I'll be sure to post who I've decided to go hunt with.

[runnin'wild]

Originally Posted by 35 whelen

Did you find an Outfitter yet to hunt with in Alberta

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Very close to signing paperwork, just want to ensure I've done my homework but I've got a good feeling with who I'm planning on going with.

I usually over think things but when a guy is shelling out that kind of cash I wanna be positive.

Funny how it's different when you wanna book a hunt with someone when I'm used to being the one guiding.

[35 whelen]

Cool a Rocky Mountain Mule Deer Hunt would be very nice

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[Jim Blake]

I hope you are thinking about anybody but Cory Kristoff's so called Classic Mountain hunts. A friend of mine went on one last year (he is from the USA) and saw a forkhorn. The Blackstone/Mons area for mule deer is finished unfortunately.

[runnin'wild]

Originally Posted by Jim Blake

I hope you are thinking about anybody but Cory Kristoff's so called Classic Mountain hunts. A friend of mine went on one last year (he is from the USA) and saw a forkhorn. The Blackstone/Mons area for mule deer is finished unfortunately.

No haven't contacted that outfitter.

Does anyone know what the mule deer situation is like in WMU 404 + 418

[SouthWestRanger]

Originally Posted by runnin'wild

No haven't contacted that outfitter.

Does anyone know what the mule deer situation is like in WMU 404 + 418

Not great, those zones are far apart from one another but I think 404 is the better option. Mule deer just aren’t doing as great in the mountains as they used to, trophy quality has tanked for the most part as have overall numbers. Don’t let me discourage you though, I personally will only hunt mountain mule deer as opposed to ones elsewhere in the province because I absolutely love the experience. What outfitter are you going with?

[MooseRiverTrapper]

Originally Posted by runnin'wild

Funny how it's different when you wanna book a hunt with someone when I'm used to being the one guiding.

Don’t roll into camp and use this as your opener makes everyone cringe. This hunt won’t be a bunch of passing up 160s to kill a 180”. But it will be nice country.

[runnin'wild]

Originally Posted by MooseRiverTrapper

Don’t roll into camp and use this as your opener makes everyone cringe. This hunt won’t be a bunch of passing up 160s to kill a 180”. But it will be nice country.

Haha ya no kidding. No I'm in new country not about to pretend I know more than others, I've seen some clients act like that, makes for a long week and honestly they just make an ass of themselves. It's definitely not hard to see past people's bs, I can figure it out the second I put someone on the bench to sight in, all one needs to ask is the distance they can shot to effectively and then watch how the squeeze, you don't even need to see the target just how they line up and squeeze or lack there of. The rest is just filler for the week.

What I was referring to was more along the lines of how it's different to book a hunt vs a DIY, which I've done many diy. Guiding you cater to your clients, doesn't matter if it's enjoyable or not you sell the experience. I find trying to ensure a enjoyable, successful experience by booking a hunt is 100 times harder than planning your own diy, guided you are at the mercy of the outfitter essentially. It's likely easier if planning years in advance and having more time to research everything everywhere, I unfortunately have a full time job and hunt and guide strictly for the pleasure and don't have the option for some of the higher end expensive hunts.

Regardless I'm positive I will choose a good outfitter and enjoy the experience to it's fullest, I mean that's the reason for going. Best part is I feel like a kid again due to being so excited about the adventure.

And you are correct I'm not going to be passing up 160s as that is my benchmark, anything above that would be a bonus but I decided that I'd be happy with 160 and an adventure to remember.

[runnin'wild]

Originally Posted by 35 whelen

Cool a Rocky Mountain Mule Deer Hunt would be very nice

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I just signed up with Tyson Mackin from Mackin Outfitting, excited to get up in the mountains and get at it! Gonna be something I've never experienced before so very stoked about the hunt and Tyson seems top notch plus the reviews I received were A plus.

I'll be sure to follow-up after the hunt. Thanks everyone for the help it's appreciated.

[bonedogg]

I just checked out his page.

good luck on your hunt.

I would have chosen the foothills option and the gallery pics show that's where his success has been. I envy that you want the mountain experience and hope you slam a huge buck. Hunting them Mule bucks in the mountains prior to the rut is also very hard around here. I would rather do it in mid November for sure. It's a ton of money to go for a mountain trail ride.

Many prairie outfitters offer many chances at 160' bucks, with a few 180" and some 200" bucks.

I would have done Milk River Outfitters for a chance to embrace our beautiful prairie landscapes and go home with the buck you want.

[runnin'wild]

Originally Posted by bonedogg

I just checked out his page.

good luck on your hunt.

I would have chosen the foothills option and the gallery pics show that's where his success has been. I envy that you want the mountain experience and hope you slam a huge buck. Hunting them Mule bucks in the mountains prior to the rut is also very hard around here. I would rather do it in mid November for sure. It's a ton of money to go for a mountain trail ride.

Many prairie outfitters offer many chances at 160' bucks, with a few 180" and some 200" bucks.

I would have done Milk River Outfitters for a chance to embrace our beautiful prairie landscapes and go home with the buck you want.

Appreciate the info, I'm aware that it'll be more challenging doing the mountain hunt than the prairie hunts and chances are better for a larger deer there as well but I've never been afraid of the challenge and I might only be able to do this hunt once so I wanted the full experience.

I was also offered prairie hunts but I made the decision that I wanted a once in a lifetime chance because I might only get to go once. Having 4 lil ones at home they usually eat up time and cash fast so I figured I'd go for broke and enjoy myself regardless, hopefully I'll be able to come out with a respectable deer that regardless of score I can call a trophy.

I have a goal of 160 as a benchmark but if I see something that is heavy and mature that catches my eye that's fine by me. I've long preferred the look of an animal or it's uniqueness over a score personally. I always tell my clients they should shoot what they want to look at on their wall forever vs score but it's still their personal decision.

I appreciate you wishing me luck and hoping I bag a cranker.

Thanks to all once again.

[South west trappin RG]

Originally Posted by runnin'wild

Appreciate the info, I'm aware that it'll be more challenging doing the mountain hunt than the prairie hunts and chances are better for a larger deer there as well but I've never been afraid of the challenge and I might only be able to do this hunt once so I wanted the full experience.

I was also offered prairie hunts but I made the decision that I wanted a once in a lifetime chance because I might only get to go once. Having 4 lil ones at home they usually eat up time and cash fast so I figured I'd go for broke and enjoy myself regardless, hopefully I'll be able to come out with a respectable deer that regardless of score I can call a trophy.

I have a goal of 160 as a benchmark but if I see something that is heavy and mature that catches my eye that's fine by me. I've long preferred the look of an animal or it's uniqueness over a score personally. I always tell my clients they should shoot what they want to look at on their wall forever vs score but it's still their personal decision.

I appreciate you wishing me luck and hoping I bag a cranker.

Thanks to all once again.

Tyson is a great guy you will have a good hunt.

[35 whelen]

Good luck on your hunt to see the mountains on Horseback is a great experience hopefully you see some mule deer

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[brendan's dad]

Originally Posted by lefty-canuck

agree.... Some things should be a “resident” only opportunity, saskatchewan has it right.

lc

x100