How far is to far ?

elkchaser · #1 10-05-2015, 04:20 PM

I would like to hear a couples peoples thoughts on good ethical shooting with your bow ?

What you think is the normal maximum range is of the normal hunter . I know lots of guys shoot out 80 ,100 yards for practice . But is it honestly ethical to shoot way out there at game ?.. I personally shoot 60yrds max with my 70# apa before that it was 50yrds with my 60# bear . that's where I draw the line and only if everthing feels good and would fall together. I bow hunt to make me a better hunter ,stalker and to get as close to as I can. So far this year I have meet two guys that have been slinging sticks at deer over 90 yards and both wounded and lost the animals !

I can't even fathom shooting that far at a deer or elk that's what gun seasons for !

Lefty-Canuck · #2 10-05-2015, 04:35 PM

Self imposed 60yard max for me...unless I already have an arrow in an animal and it needs a follow up.

Preference is 30 and under.

LC

3blade · #3 10-05-2015, 04:45 PM

Depends on what animal, conditions, etc. too many variables to list.

For example: moose at 60 yards, unaware, calm wind - thump!

Deer at 60 yards, twitchy, im cold from sitting for 3 hrs - nope. Maybe at 30...maybe.

reddeerhunter · #4 10-05-2015, 04:49 PM

40 yards in same decent conditions for every animal broadside, no external factors(i.e wind, vegetation, animal moving etc, quartering to........)

58thecat · #5 10-05-2015, 04:55 PM

30 or less. Get better at setting up or your stalking technique. Chances decrease as you close the gap no different than flinging lead at 800 yards, doable yes but chances of wounding animals increase.

coyotekiller · #6 10-05-2015, 04:59 PM

You should only shoot as far as your comfortable and confident in shooting. It depends a lot on the conditions and the animal

Hydro1 · #7 10-05-2015, 05:05 PM

I won't shoot game beyond 30 maybe 35 yards.

Ozzzzz · #8 10-05-2015, 05:16 PM

25-30 max. Even then, I need to 100% sure of the shot.

270WINCHESTER · #9 10-05-2015, 06:02 PM

For me 40 yards is max. And only that far if everything feels perfect. When i draw at 40, unless i can hold my peep site perfectly still aligned with my site i will not take the shot. Up to 30 is my preferred. Even with a little shake going on i can still make a good shot out to 30 yards.

Lefty-Canuck · #10 10-05-2015, 06:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck

Self imposed 60yard max for me...unless I already have an arrow in an animal and it needs a follow up.

Preference is 30 and under.

LC

I should add...longest first shot I took was this year on an elk at 40 yards ....longest second shot I took was this year on a mule deer 60 yards.

LC

beaver hunter · #11 10-05-2015, 06:09 PM

Deer 30 moose 50 for me. Mental notes, luckily my bull was 15-20 and I had no time to turn on Gopro or even think about rangefinder.

RoscoeP · #12 10-05-2015, 06:26 PM

I am a traditional shooter and I feel confident out to 20 yards but would prefer 15 yards. A Vancouver Island Blacktail deer is a lot smaller than a mainland moose, so every situation is different. Also the lay of the land, up hill or down hill and the angle the animal is facing.
All I know is I don't want to see a wounded animal running off with a arrow in a non vital spot. I will wait until the right opportunity happens and make the right decision.

Ozzzzz · #13 10-05-2015, 07:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RoscoeP

I am a traditional shooter and I feel confident out to 20 yards but would prefer 15 yards. A Vancouver Island Blacktail deer is a lot smaller than a mainland moose, so every situation is different. Also the lay of the land, up hill or down hill and the angle the animal is facing.
All I know is I don't want to see a wounded animal running off with a arrow in a non vital spot. I will wait until the right opportunity happens and make the right decision.

Agree 100%!!

LBB · #14 10-05-2015, 08:57 PM

40 yards is my first arrow limit. P+y stats compiled from their entry forms the average recovered deer 20 to 25 yards

nelsonob1 · #15 10-05-2015, 11:14 PM

Someone recommended to me that I practice at 10 yard increments hitting a pie sized paper plate. They suggested hunting at ten yards less than the distance I could hit the plate consistently 9 out of 10 times. For me that is 50 yards so I hunt at 40.

At extreme distances one must also begin to consider how long the arrow takes to get there. At 100 yards an average weight arrow from a modern compound would take a full second. that's a fair amount f time for a deer to move, especially as the sound of the string will get there a full 0.8 second before the arrow.

Mike_W · #16 10-06-2015, 09:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lefty-Canuck

Self imposed 60yard max for me...unless I already have an arrow in an animal and it needs a follow up.

Preference is 30 and under.

LC

X2
Furthest shot was a follow up on a Mule deer at 70 yards.
Furthest first shot was 50 yards on a bull moose.

Mickey · #17 10-06-2015, 09:06 AM

Second year for me, my comfort zone is out to 40 yards and I shoot 20-30 arrows a day to practice. 20-30-40-30-20 is the repetition.

SCHOOCH · #18 10-06-2015, 10:36 AM

I practice out to 60, i limit myself to 40 when hunting. Practice out quite a bit further and it will make the closer distance much easier at the moment of truth

nekred · #19 10-06-2015, 10:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SCHOOCH

I practice out to 60, i limit myself to 40 when hunting. Practice out quite a bit further and it will make the closer distance much easier at the moment of truth

One of the biggest misconceptions out there....

How does hitting your driver all the time for practice make you better with your putter?

Instead of adding distance and a bigger target, how about same distance and smaller target....

Guys that shoot 18m indoor target archer don't go and shoot at 40 to get better....at 20.... They practice at 20 and focus on shrinking group....

Another thing I tell people as well that want to shoot a perfect round at 20.... do you go and try to shoot the perfect round at 40 on a target double the size....

No you start at closer and using 20 yard size target back up, I tell many archer s how will you shoot a perfect round at 20 until you can do it at 10....

When you go see a golf pro for the first time.... what club do you learn to hit to get better.... the 3 iron or the 9 iron....

If you are shooting for "practice" at 60 and 70 when you a saying you will hunt at 40 or 50..... besides practice is about repiution, you can shoot far more arrows in same time frame shooting at 40 than you can at 70.....

How does practicing the long game in golf make you better at your short game!?....

Practice what you play!.....

I understand testing limits, but that is not practice.... testing limits is important, knowing one can hit a pie plat at 70 adds confidence but if you limit yourself to 40 and expect a 40 yard shot then practice at that...

Here is a small mental tip, when you are practicing success and your are ingraining your brain on arrow placement, it does not compute distance into the equation!..... Thus why when I am teaching archers I often get them to be confident at 10 yards then when they reach their expectation move to 11 yards... etc. their goal is to shoot a tighter group, not a broader one so we give their brain positive reinforcement....

Same concept in any sport.... can't teach a slap shot until they master a wrist shot.... etc...

Lefty-Canuck · #20 10-06-2015, 11:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nelsonob1

Someone recommended to me that I practice at 10 yard increments hitting a pie sized paper plate. They suggested hunting at ten yards less than the distance I could hit the plate consistently 9 out of 10 times. For me that is 50 yards so I hunt at 40.

At extreme distances one must also begin to consider how long the arrow takes to get there. At 100 yards an average weight arrow from a modern compound would take a full second. that's a fair amount f time for a deer to move, especially as the sound of the string will get there a full 0.8 second before the arrow.

TOF-time of flight does make a difference.

I shot an elk this year at 40 yard with a "speed bow" he was on alert and took a step forward and turned before the arrow hit.

A behind the leg shot became a second to last rib quartering shot in less than a second.

LC

SBE2 · #21 10-06-2015, 11:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nelsonob1

Someone recommended to me that I practice at 10 yard increments hitting a pie sized paper plate. They suggested hunting at ten yards less than the distance I could hit the plate consistently 9 out of 10 times. For me that is 50 yards so I hunt at 40.

At extreme distances one must also begin to consider how long the arrow takes to get there. At 100 yards an average weight arrow from a modern compound would take a full second. that's a fair amount f time for a deer to move, especially as the sound of the string will get there a full 0.8 second before the arrow.

I would think at 100 yds the travel time would be longer than 1 second for sure. Anybody confirm, with say an average bow of 280fps and average arrow weight.

SBE2 · #22 10-06-2015, 11:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nekred

One of the biggest misconceptions out there....

How does hitting your driver all the time for practice make you better with your putter?

Instead of adding distance and a bigger target, how about same distance and smaller target....

Guys that shoot 18m indoor target archer don't go and shoot at 40 to get better....at 20.... They practice at 20 and focus on shrinking group....

Another thing I tell people as well that want to shoot a perfect round at 20.... do you go and try to shoot the perfect round at 40 on a target double the size....

No you start at closer and using 20 yard size target back up, I tell many archer s how will you shoot a perfect round at 20 until you can do it at 10....

When you go see a golf pro for the first time.... what club do you learn to hit to get better.... the 3 iron or the 9 iron....

If you are shooting for "practice" at 60 and 70 when you a saying you will hunt at 40 or 50..... besides practice is about repiution, you can shoot far more arrows in same time frame shooting at 40 than you can at 70.....

How does practicing the long game in golf make you better at your short game!?....

Practice what you play!.....

I understand testing limits, but that is not practice.... testing limits is important, knowing one can hit a pie plat at 70 adds confidence but if you limit yourself to 40 and expect a 40 yard shot then practice at that...

Here is a small mental tip, when you are practicing success and your are ingraining your brain on arrow placement, it does not compute distance into the equation!..... Thus why when I am teaching archers I often get them to be confident at 10 yards then when they reach their expectation move to 11 yards... etc. their goal is to shoot a tighter group, not a broader one so we give their brain positive reinforcement....

Same concept in any sport.... can't teach a slap shot until they master a wrist shot.... etc...

I get what you are saying, but the dynamics and motions, muscles involved and overall effort of hitting a driver compared to a putter are not the same, so can't be compared that way. Where as with the bow, all motions and muscles are the same, though the aim concentration or settling of the pin for lack of a better term may take a bit more at longer distances.

I would say the vast majority of pros, writers, advice columns etc stick to the mantra of practicing long to become more proficient at shorter distances with the bow. May have a lot to do with the mental side or confidence aspect, but it is definitely the majority that support this method of practice. I think you may be the only person I have heard say otherwise, doesn't mean that what you are saying doesn't work for you or some, just saying it goes against the conventional line of thinking/teaching. I'm no pro, not even close, I'm about average with the bow, better on some days, should leave it in the case on other days. Something I am trying to stick is doing all I can to no have my 5-6 arrow groups any more than one inch more than the first digit on the yardage, so at 20yrds 3inch group (this should be attainable for the vast majority, 30yds 4 inches, 40yds 5inches, 50yds 6 inches and so on. If in recent practice I am not there, it tell me where I should limit my shooting. As mentioned, will also depend on animal size and relative kill zone.

Cldilling · #23 10-06-2015, 11:58 AM

I don't like to go over 30 yards, while I will go as far as 60 if the conditions are near perfect. I like bow hunting for the time spent stalking, not for testing my skills, and trying to make outrageous shots.

Mike_W · #24 10-06-2015, 12:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nekred

One of the biggest misconceptions out there....

How does hitting your driver all the time for practice make you better with your putter?

Instead of adding distance and a bigger target, how about same distance and smaller target....

Guys that shoot 18m indoor target archer don't go and shoot at 40 to get better....at 20.... They practice at 20 and focus on shrinking group....

Another thing I tell people as well that want to shoot a perfect round at 20.... do you go and try to shoot the perfect round at 40 on a target double the size....

No you start at closer and using 20 yard size target back up, I tell many archer s how will you shoot a perfect round at 20 until you can do it at 10....

When you go see a golf pro for the first time.... what club do you learn to hit to get better.... the 3 iron or the 9 iron....

If you are shooting for "practice" at 60 and 70 when you a saying you will hunt at 40 or 50..... besides practice is about repiution, you can shoot far more arrows in same time frame shooting at 40 than you can at 70.....

How does practicing the long game in golf make you better at your short game!?....

Practice what you play!.....

I understand testing limits, but that is not practice.... testing limits is important, knowing one can hit a pie plat at 70 adds confidence but if you limit yourself to 40 and expect a 40 yard shot then practice at that...

Here is a small mental tip, when you are practicing success and your are ingraining your brain on arrow placement, it does not compute distance into the equation!..... Thus why when I am teaching archers I often get them to be confident at 10 yards then when they reach their expectation move to 11 yards... etc. their goal is to shoot a tighter group, not a broader one so we give their brain positive reinforcement....

Same concept in any sport.... can't teach a slap shot until they master a wrist shot.... etc...

I get what you are attempting to say as you have taken this stance every time this comes up.

All I know is what works for me and most archers I have seen shooting at 80 yards where everything is amplified and a slight error is shown makes you aim harder and focus on your shot and follow through. Then when you change up to shoot 40 or 50 those shots seem so close and easy in comparison.
I don't care about shooting a tighter group at 10 or 20 yards I prefer to shoot a tighter group at 50 or 60.

fish_e_o · #25 10-06-2015, 12:31 PM

i like to plan on staying under 40 and have pins/practice to 60 if i really need it

normanrd · #26 10-06-2015, 12:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nekred

One of the biggest misconceptions out there....

How does hitting your driver all the time for practice make you better with your putter?

Instead of adding distance and a bigger target, how about same distance and smaller target....

Guys that shoot 18m indoor target archer don't go and shoot at 40 to get better....at 20.... They practice at 20 and focus on shrinking group....

Another thing I tell people as well that want to shoot a perfect round at 20.... do you go and try to shoot the perfect round at 40 on a target double the size....

No you start at closer and using 20 yard size target back up, I tell many archer s how will you shoot a perfect round at 20 until you can do it at 10....

When you go see a golf pro for the first time.... what club do you learn to hit to get better.... the 3 iron or the 9 iron....

If you are shooting for "practice" at 60 and 70 when you a saying you will hunt at 40 or 50..... besides practice is about repiution, you can shoot far more arrows in same time frame shooting at 40 than you can at 70.....

How does practicing the long game in golf make you better at your short game!?....

Practice what you play!.....

I understand testing limits, but that is not practice.... testing limits is important, knowing one can hit a pie plat at 70 adds confidence but if you limit yourself to 40 and expect a 40 yard shot then practice at that...

Here is a small mental tip, when you are practicing success and your are ingraining your brain on arrow placement, it does not compute distance into the equation!..... Thus why when I am teaching archers I often get them to be confident at 10 yards then when they reach their expectation move to 11 yards... etc. their goal is to shoot a tighter group, not a broader one so we give their brain positive reinforcement....

Same concept in any sport.... can't teach a slap shot until they master a wrist shot.... etc...

For the record, I'm with you 100% of the way. I usually shoot 7 yards year long in my garage and try to maintain hitting a golf tee sized dot. When I get outside I have no problems shooting any distance on the particular sight I am using. If the opportunity is there and everything is right, I will use any pin available.

Lefty-Canuck · #27 10-06-2015, 01:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by normanrd

For the record, I'm with you 100% of the way. I usually shoot 7 yards year long in my garage and try to maintain hitting a golf tee sized dot. When I get outside I have no problems shooting any distance on the particular sight I am using. If the opportunity is there and everything is right, I will use any pin available.

Agree...repetition of form and proper form is key to archery success. If you can't do it at 10...why try 20?....etc.

LC

nekred · #28 10-06-2015, 01:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike_W

I get what you are attempting to say as you have taken this stance every time this comes up.

All I know is what works for me and most archers I have seen shooting at 80 yards where everything is amplified and a slight error is shown makes you aim harder and focus on your shot and follow through. Then when you change up to shoot 40 or 50 those shots seem so close and easy in comparison.
I don't care about shooting a tighter group at 10 or 20 yards I prefer to shoot a tighter group at 50 or 60.

So you shoot a tighter group at 50/50 than at 10/20... I need your magic bow!...

nekred · #29 10-06-2015, 01:22 PM

If you are practicing at 60 or 70 don't feed me bs that you won't hunt at that distance if the "right opportunity" presents itself.....

AND THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH THAT!.... Just tell it like it is.... IBEP SUGGESTS 45 yards as maximum distance with a bow..... I have shot animals closer and farther than that, it does not make me a bad person or an unethical hunter, because like distance ethics are personal....

Now back to original question, how far is too far.... it depends on situation....

70 yards on a mouse may be a tad far but 70 on a moose.... depends on situation...

or an alert deer at 20.... probably going to jump your string while an unaware one at 50 is just fine....

It is like asking how close is too close.... if I can't get my arrow clear the bow string before hitting target then I may be too close

Mike_W · #30 10-06-2015, 01:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nekred

So you shoot a tighter group at 50/50 than at 10/20... I need your magic bow!...

Never said anything like that. Just I would rather practice out further as I feel it make closer shots seem easier.

Your whole golf analogy is pretty off not even comparable really unless I had a recurve for my short game and a 40lb compound for my middle and a 80 for long game maybe.

But lets flip that around what good is it to putt 10 yards really well if you can only drive it 20 yards? Yet if you can swing really hard and drive a ball 300 yards straight and consistent you should be able to "take some off" and have even better control.

I'm not saying your way off base here and yes getting basics down is very important, but I am just in disagreement with you saying long range practice doesn't make you a better archer.