Wolf Poisoning

[Talking moose]

Originally Posted by JD848

Have a bit of respect for others if it's in you specially your elders,he or anyone else can have there say on how they feel about this topic.

This is not cool baby boy talking to anyone like this,your just another loud mouth behind a keyboard.

He’s got zero respect. He pm’ed me 11 times yesterday throughout the day with nastys. It’s deadmoose/Johnny gudblea. Classless punk.

[sage 13]

quit easy to see the few unstable ones here and those that have zero respect for wild life and/or conservation, they try to hide it by saying there saving the caribou.

[creeky]

Originally Posted by MooseRiverTrapper

Great story. A lost art form. Too many on here can’t see the big picture. Can’t see beyond the whiskeyjack and the magpie.

You forgot the crows and the ravens, jays, broad winged hawks, sharp winged hawks, falcons, badgers, weasels, fisher, mink, wolverine, grizzly bears, black bears & snowy owls, saw whet owls, great grey owls and then there's the night shift changeover where the great horned owls, barn owls, coyotes, red fox, swift foxes, cougars, bobcat, lynx all sweep the landscape…….

They don’t all die by a baited carcass, they fly or move off and expire then something else dines on there carcass and then they move-it’s a ripple effect on the land, environmental armagedon, and that’s the bigger picture.



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[Bushrat]

Originally Posted by KegRiver

You think!



Have you ever heard of a natural death resulting in broken bones?
It's common in a strychnine death. This poison causes convulsions so violent that leg bones are commonly broken by the convulsion alone.

Wolves will rip their own apart. Wolves break legs, backs, other bones quite naturally causing long drawn out painful deaths. We rarely witness this but it happens all the time. That and many other long and painful deaths from disease, parasites, starvation, etc, is how most animals die in a natural world. Instant and painless death rarely happens in nature. It is just that we rarely witness it but natural death of most animals is not a pretty thing. Death by strychnine isn't pretty either but in reality isn't always worse than a 'natural' death. It is usually a relatively fast death within a few hours or days. We seem to support trapping and shooting them yet many are wounded by this and suffer long drawn out terrible deaths. I just don't like the collateral damage done to other non targeted animals and birds. None of this is pretty and it would be nice to have something that we could use that would simply make them drowsy and go to a painless sleep that they don't wake up from.

Thing is wolf populations need to be managed, we have to accept that there isn't any emotionally correct and painless way to do it. I wish there was.

[creeky]

Originally Posted by JD848

Have a bit of respect for others if it's in you specially your elders,he or anyone else can have there say on how they feel about this topic.

This is not cool baby boy talking to anyone like this,your just another loud mouth behind a keyboard.

x2


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[MooseRiverTrapper]

Originally Posted by creeky

[/U][/U][/U]


You forgot the crows and the ravens, jays, broad winged hawks, sharp winged hawks, falcons, badgers, weasels, fisher, mink, wolverine, grizzly bears, black bears & snowy owls, saw whet owls, great grey owls and then there's the night shift changeover where the great horned owls, barn owls, coyotes, red fox, swift foxes, cougars, bobcat, lynx all sweep the landscape…….

They don’t all die by a baited carcass, they fly or move off and expire then something else dines on there carcass and then they move-it’s a ripple effect on the land, environmental armagedon, and that’s the bigger picture.



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You forgot marten.

[creeky]

Originally Posted by MooseRiverTrapper

You forgot marten.

It was a test, today's "deliberate mistake"-lol


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[MooseRiverTrapper]

There is canine specific poison, not saying creeky could comprehend that.

[creeky]

Originally Posted by MooseRiverTrapper

There is canine specific poison, not saying creeky could comprehend that.

creeky comprehends, moose river trapper's comprehension of the big picture is disconcerting-to say the least.


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[KegRiver]

Originally Posted by creeky

[/U][/U][/U]


You forgot the crows and the ravens, jays, broad winged hawks, sharp winged hawks, falcons, badgers, weasels, fisher, mink, wolverine, grizzly bears, black bears & snowy owls, saw whet owls, great grey owls and then there's the night shift changeover where the great horned owls, barn owls, coyotes, red fox, swift foxes, cougars, bobcat, lynx all sweep the landscape…….

They don’t all die by a baited carcass, they fly or move off and expire then something else dines on there carcass and then they move-it’s a ripple effect on the land, environmental armagedon, and that’s the bigger picture.



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Exactly. Well almost. Close enough.

It's not just the very violent death, it's all the other nasty aspects that come with it.
It's the ripple effect, the indiscriminate results, the danger to humans who handle it or who may accidentally come in contact with it.

I know that some folks take great pleasure in dousing a house cat in gasoline and setting it on fire, I can see them liking this poison.
I don't believe any reasonable person would condone it' use if they realy understood the whole story.

Besides, there are alternatives that don't have all the nasty side effects.
They may not be as effective, but they do work at least to some degree.

[KegRiver]

Originally Posted by Bushrat

Wolves will rip their own apart. Wolves break legs, backs, other bones quite naturally causing long drawn out painful deaths. We rarely witness this but it happens all the time. That and many other long and painful deaths from disease, parasites, starvation, etc, is how most animals die in a natural world. Instant and painless death rarely happens in nature. It is just that we rarely witness it but natural death of most animals is not a pretty thing. Death by strychnine isn't pretty either but in reality isn't always worse than a 'natural' death. It is usually a relatively fast death within a few hours or days. We seem to support trapping and shooting them yet many are wounded by this and suffer long drawn out terrible deaths. I just don't like the collateral damage done to other non targeted animals and birds. None of this is pretty and it would be nice to have something that we could use that would simply make them drowsy and go to a painless sleep that they don't wake up from.

Thing is wolf populations need to be managed, we have to accept that there isn't any emotionally correct and painless way to do it. I wish there was.

I see you have extensive knowledge on the lives of wolves. Not!

In fifty plus years of living in wolf country, hunting, trapping and more, I have only seen one wolf that was not in good health, naturally.

I have seen a couple of Deer with accidentally broken bones and one Bear with a broken jaw, but I strongly suspect that injury was caused by a human.


I agree that wild animals die by some pretty unpleasant natural causes, I have said so before on this thread.

But I don't believe that in any way absolves us of our responsibility to act as humanly as we presently know how to, when harvesting or managing other species.

[Bushrat]

Originally Posted by KegRiver

In fifty plus years of living in wolf country, hunting, trapping and more, I have only seen one wolf that was not in good health, naturally.

Thats the thing Keg, you rarely see, trap or shoot a wolf or other predator that isn't in reasonably decent health. In reality a very small percentage of wolves get shot or trapped. The rest die of natural mother nature induced causes, be it broken ribs, collapsed lung or spinal injury from being stomped by a moose, cancer, mange, starvation, parasites or any of the other myriad of natural causes crawls off to die unseen. Something eventually happens to every one of them because sooner or later every single one of them is going to die and it is a pretty good chance for most that if witnessed by us it would be a gut wrenching death one way or the other. That is how it is. That old grizzled wolf that beat the odds and lived a long healthy life, sired many offspring is now stricken with arthritis and bad teeth or mange, whatever, isn't going to have a pleasant downhill run leading up to his eventual death. Those deaths are rarely seen or witnessed and rarely do those ones end up caught on a trap line.

I too have only seen one sick wolf, a lone wolf, skin and bones, severe mange, he still had enough gumption to run away but certainly didn't move with the acuity of a healthy wolf, more like a wolf on his last legs. Obviously been suffering his affliction for a while, didn't have a lot of days left. I doubt they were fun days before he found a secluded spot to lay down and freeze to death.

Keg, I don't hunt wolves nor do I intend to, I don't hate them, I like to see them. I'm old enough that I'm past the thrill of the kill, that's for the younger folks. But there comes a time in certain situations where it's necessary to manage them. Unfortunately you or me shooting the odd wolf won't make a difference. When something like the caribou are facing imminent extinction the eradication of a few wolf packs by poison may be the only expedient option. We don't have to like it, we may find it immoral and deplorable but it may be the only stop gap saving grace for preserving the few remaining caribou until their habitat can be restored. As far as poisoning wolves to preserve moose, deer and elk populations just so we can shoot them in hunting season, nah.....its not my thing.

[KegRiver]

Originally Posted by Bushrat

Thats the thing Keg, you rarely see, trap or shoot a wolf or other predator that isn't in reasonably decent health. In reality a very small percentage of wolves get shot or trapped. The rest die of natural mother nature induced causes, be it broken ribs, collapsed lung or spinal injury from being stomped by a moose, cancer, mange, starvation, parasites or any of the other myriad of natural causes crawls off to die unseen. Something eventually happens to every one of them because sooner or later every single one of them is going to die and it is a pretty good chance for most that if witnessed by us it would be a gut wrenching death one way or the other. That is how it is. That old grizzled wolf that beat the odds and lived a long healthy life, sired many offspring is now stricken with arthritis and bad teeth or mange, whatever, isn't going to have a pleasant downhill run leading up to his eventual death. Those deaths are rarely seen or witnessed and rarely do those ones end up caught on a trap line.

I too have only seen one sick wolf, a lone wolf, skin and bones, severe mange, he still had enough gumption to run away but certainly didn't move with the acuity of a healthy wolf, more like a wolf on his last legs. Obviously been suffering his affliction for a while, didn't have a lot of days left. I doubt they were fun days before he found a secluded spot to lay down and freeze to death.

Keg, I don't hunt wolves nor do I intend to, I don't hate them, I like to see them. I'm old enough that I'm past the thrill of the kill, that's for the younger folks. But there comes a time in certain situations where it's necessary to manage them. Unfortunately you or me shooting the odd wolf won't make a difference. When something like the caribou are facing imminent extinction the eradication of a few wolf packs by poison may be the only expedient option. We don't have to like it, we may find it immoral and deplorable but it may be the only stop gap saving grace for preserving the few remaining caribou until their habitat can be restored. As far as poisoning wolves to preserve moose, deer and elk populations just so we can shoot them in hunting season, nah.....its not my thing.

Much of what you say about a natural death in the wild might be true although I doubt broken bones are nearly as common as you seem to think.
Nor do I think the percentage that ends their days at the hands of a human is as small as you seem to think.
In reality, if it were that small, no amount of effort on our part would result in any noticeable reduction in their numbers and as we both know, that has not been historically correct.


BTW, freezing to death may not be such a bad end. I lost a brother to that, although it never reached the point of him freezing, his end came about due to the first part of that process, namely, hypothermia.

I don't hate wolves either. But I have killed a few and would again if the opportunity arose.
I don't even take a stand against all poison, just strychnine.

As for the Caribou, maybe we can save them, maybe not. It's worth trying, but I don't have a ton of faith in government management efforts.

As long as we are being honest about how animals die natural deaths we may as well be equally honest about government wildlife management.

The truth is, they have had more failures then success in the past, so who knows. Like I said, it's worth trying, but I wouldn't hang my future on there being Woodland Caribou for our great great grandchildren to enjoy.
There may not be a world for them as far as that goes.

All it would take is one nut case with access to a nuclear arsenal and all our efforts at securing the future for any species, including ourselves, will be for naught.

All there would be left would be cockroaches, house flies and magpies.