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Old 07-20-2018, 07:32 PM
IronNoggin IronNoggin is offline
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Thumbs up New group calls for seal and sea lion cull on B.C.’s coast

Members of the Tsawwassen First Nation are teaming up with commercial and sport-fishers on B.C.’s coast to call on the new federal fisheries minister to allow a West Coast seal and sea lion harvest. The group, called the Pacific Balance Pinnipeds Society, says that growing populations of seals and sea lions endangers future salmon populations.

https://globalnews.ca/news/4344527/n...cull-bc-coast/

Of course the Global reporter got the population numbers all wrong, and the anti's at Ocean Wise have started their bleating already.
But, this is an initiative that is long overdue IMHO, and I will support it any and every way I can...

Cheers,
Nog
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Old 07-20-2018, 08:00 PM
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I’d like to join the club
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Old 07-20-2018, 09:45 PM
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Default Feed the whales.

They just need to wing them so the whales can catch them easier fix two problems with one lead free bullet.
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Old 07-21-2018, 07:31 AM
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My first coho was approx 45 lbs.....and taken by one of them bastards...sign me up.
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Old 07-21-2018, 07:49 AM
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My first coho was approx 45 lbs.....and taken by one of them bastards...sign me up.
a 45 lb coho? ya I'd be mad if they stole my world record coho. I think the first step would be to get rid of all the fish farms that are spreading all the diseases to the wild salmon, and the natives need to lead that charge because the government will listen to them before anyone else.
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Old 07-21-2018, 07:50 AM
SNAPFisher SNAPFisher is offline
 
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a 45 lb coho? ya I'd be mad if they stole my world record coho.
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Old 07-21-2018, 09:42 AM
Positrac Positrac is offline
 
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I think the first step would be to get rid of all the fish farms that are spreading all the diseases to the wild salmon, and the natives need to lead that charge because the government will listen to them before anyone else.
That may happen sooner than you think or it may turn into an industry that knows no boundaries and can pretty much do as they please...

Licences for fish farms are Federal but the leases are Provincial. Right now all the farms on the coast are getting their leases on a month by month basis and the Provincial government is using this tactic to force them to let the natives get their foot in the door.

I have family that work for two of the largest fish farm companies. They both agreed that they either need to join forces with the natives or they will have to shut down since they can’t keep running the way they are.

As much as I’m not crazy about fish farms they are one of the largest employers on the coast and I don’t believe they are the sole reason wild fish stocks are where they are. Cutting the numbers of seals down would probably do as much as shutting the whole fish farm industry down as far as helping wild stocks rebound. Sit in any estuary when the fish return to spawn and watch them get picked off one by one while they wait for high tide to head up the river. For the most part the seals just eat the guts and then move on to the next fish...

So, I’m in favor of a cull for sure.
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Old 07-21-2018, 09:48 AM
pikeman06 pikeman06 is offline
 
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Ya right as if the hippies gonna let that happen...protest, protest, protest.
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Old 07-21-2018, 10:55 AM
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Animal rights folks will be all over this one for sure. Interesting to see how this one will play out.
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Old 07-21-2018, 11:23 AM
IronNoggin IronNoggin is offline
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Originally Posted by pikeman06 View Post
Ya right as if the hippies gonna let that happen...protest, protest, protest.
In this you are in error. This is going to fly.
The program will be run by FN's who simply do not care what the huggers have to say.
Horgan & his pet Dream Weaver have NO SAY whatsoever in the process. Period.
Although the feds are gunshy, they understand something has to be done, and are quite willing to let the FN's take the lead on this as a consequence.

Mark my words, this IS going forward!!

Cheers,
Nog
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Old 07-21-2018, 12:42 PM
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That may happen sooner than you think or it may turn into an industry that knows no boundaries and can pretty much do as they please...

Licences for fish farms are Federal but the leases are Provincial. Right now all the farms on the coast are getting their leases on a month by month basis and the Provincial government is using this tactic to force them to let the natives get their foot in the door.

I have family that work for two of the largest fish farm companies. They both agreed that they either need to join forces with the natives or they will have to shut down since they can’t keep running the way they are.

As much as I’m not crazy about fish farms they are one of the largest employers on the coast and I don’t believe they are the sole reason wild fish stocks are
where they are. Cutting the numbers of seals down would probably do as much as shutting the whole fish farm industry down as far as helping wild stocks rebound. Sit in any estuary when the fish return to spawn and watch them get picked off one by one while they wait for high tide to head up the river. For the most part the seals just eat the guts and then move on to the next fish...

So, I’m in favor of a cull for sure.
I have a buddy who is a veterinarian biologist and he has published a paper on fish farms the Atlantic salmon r passing a Diease on to spring salmon which is called prv and will kill them but the Atlantic’s aren’t getting it they r just carrier
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Old 07-21-2018, 05:14 PM
pikeman06 pikeman06 is offline
 
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Maybe us albertans should band together and protest such an outrageous and blatant act of waste in this day and age. What is the purpose of such a barbaric act. Surely not for monetary gain one would hope. What are they proposing to do with the carcasses? Wouldn't that pollute the waters and introduce toxins to Canada's precious coast line? Stick that in your pipe and smoke it. Anyone from alberta that is supporting any of this "poor me" line of garbage from our "neighbors" better think about supporting anything out there. I work with 75 percent b.c boys that wouldn't have a shirt on their back without alberta and our horrible dirty oil.
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Old 07-21-2018, 05:32 PM
Positrac Positrac is offline
 
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Just calm Down Piker. Why the hostility?

This has nothing to do with BC against Alberta, or vice versa. So quit trying to make it into something it isn’t.

Nog is just pointing out that natives are joining forces with other stakeholders and getting behind the idea of a seal cull which almost everyone who know anything about the coast knows is about time...

Take Mittlenatch Island directly west of Powel River for instance. For a mile all around the island it’s now closed to all finish in order to protect Rockfish. You hardly ever see anyone fishing around Mittlenatch but on any given day there could be 500 seals/sea lions laying on its shore. On one hand cut those numbers back a bit and you probably wouldn’t have to worry about the Rockfish. On the other, leave them alone and it doesn’t matter what else you do in the name of conservation the Rockfish will never come back.
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Old 07-21-2018, 07:06 PM
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The sea lions and seals r out of control out here make your choice between them and the salmon. I would like to see it thinned out to a more manageable amount. The salmon r having a tough time between the low hot waters of the last few years, fish farms ,logging and the geese eating all the eel grass at the river mouths making for the fry having no place to hide while adjusting to the salt water and then all the sewer being dumped into the ocean the salmon looked doomed. We need to stop dumping sewer in the ocean, stop logging so close to rivers, the geese have become a huge problem same as the seals, so what’s the answer to fix this or do nothing
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Old 07-21-2018, 09:26 PM
pikeman06 pikeman06 is offline
 
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No not calm down...you guys come creeping into an alberta outdoorsman forum looking for support for an un-substantial, radical, knee jerk reaction to try to preserve your way of life and generate income from mother earth. Boy that sounds pretty familiar. That's so wrong in so many ways first nation or not...I'll be there with my camera when these seals get whacked making sure these honest, well meaning neighbour's of ours do not waste a single scrap of those delicious seals. Nothing goes to waste right? This should be good. Good luck. Hopefully sooner or later everyone including the two faced radicals realizes that Canada is resource based wether sheez oil gas salmon seals wood you name it. Are they gonna kill the seals traditional in the nice kayaks that they protest the kinder morgan in?
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Old 07-21-2018, 10:01 PM
pikeman06 pikeman06 is offline
 
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Now I see the people protesting the line have a vested interest in purchasing said line...pardon me? I see the media has noticed this sudden interest in whacking these seals and sea lions. Thanks for bringing it to the world's attention. Tell me how it goes from here. I don't like Robins because they eat worms which are important to my garden so I want to cull them...😋
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Old 07-21-2018, 10:50 PM
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Originally Posted by pikeman06 View Post
Maybe us albertans should band together and protest such an outrageous and blatant act of waste in this day and age. What is the purpose of such a barbaric act. Surely not for monetary gain one would hope. What are they proposing to do with the carcasses? Wouldn't that pollute the waters and introduce toxins to Canada's precious coast line? Stick that in your pipe and smoke it. Anyone from alberta that is supporting any of this "poor me" line of garbage from our "neighbors" better think about supporting anything out there. I work with 75 percent b.c boys that wouldn't have a shirt on their back without alberta and our horrible dirty oil.
If yoou read the link you will see that this group- made up of sport fishermen, natives and commercial fishermen , have a market for the seals as well as a concern about loosing a wild fishery - not just a salmon fishery.
I am not sure why you are so full of hate for this.
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Old 07-21-2018, 11:22 PM
pikeman06 pikeman06 is offline
 
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Don't view it as hate. I don't hate anything. No where did I say hate. Just my humble opinion. You say the guides the commercials and the f.n fishers are implementing this slaughter of seals to put some money in their jeans and support their families like their ancestors always have. Nothing wrong with that, neither is drilling a hole in the ground to extract a resource for monetary value either. But when the polls indicate nobody over there supports my way of life I guess I start to look at how perfect their way of life is and "mass slaughter and cull" just doesn't fly with me sorry if I offended anyone. It's alberta outdoorsmen remember? Guys get chewed up for eating a ten pound pike on here. How could you possibly endorse such a ludicrous act in this political correct day and age? Wink wink.
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Old 07-21-2018, 11:29 PM
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Originally Posted by pikeman06 View Post
Don't view it as hate. I don't hate anything. No where did I say hate. Just my humble opinion. You say the guides the commercials and the f.n fishers are implementing this slaughter of seals to put some money in their jeans and support their families like their ancestors always have. Nothing wrong with that, neither is drilling a hole in the ground to extract a resource for monetary value either. But when the polls indicate nobody over there supports my way of life I guess I start to look at how perfect their way of life is and "mass slaughter and cull" just doesn't fly with me sorry if I offended anyone. It's alberta outdoorsmen remember? Guys get chewed up for eating a ten pound pike on here. How could you possibly endorse such a ludicrous act in this political correct day and age? Wink wink.
The BC sport fishermen are the same as us, and we have AO members from Alberta over there right now fishing.
Just because the polls say something does not mean that everybody in the Province is in agreement with it.
And yeah, your post came off as a hateful rant.
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Old 07-21-2018, 11:58 PM
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I’d like to join the club
Join the "club" har har....a little double entendre regarding the club
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Old 07-22-2018, 09:25 AM
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Originally Posted by pikeman06 View Post
Ya right as if the hippies gonna let that happen...protest, protest, protest.
They’re probably lookin fer something else to cry about now, this would be perfect! Keep the unemployed bums preoccupied while they build the pipeline.
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Old 07-22-2018, 09:42 AM
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They’re probably lookin fer something else to cry about now, this would be perfect! Keep the unemployed bums preoccupied while they build the pipeline.
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Old 07-22-2018, 09:46 AM
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Now I see the people protesting the line have a vested interest in purchasing said line...pardon me? I see the media has noticed this sudden interest in whacking these seals and sea lions. Thanks for bringing it to the world's attention. Tell me how it goes from here. I don't like Robins because they eat worms which are important to my garden so I want to cull them...😋
You do realize there is a serious imbalance right?
Obviously not, judging by your replies, yer gonna “be there with my camera” , give me a break!!
There is lots they can do with the carcass, take the fur, make omega 3 oil with fat (they sell it a t&t, don’t cry and get yer camera) and the carcass can be rendered, and so on.
It’s called wild life management, they do it here with tags and fish limits right under yer very nose!
This of course in my “very humble opinion”, hahahahahahahaha
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Old 07-22-2018, 10:18 AM
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I hope they look at reopening the hatcheries that have closed along the coast. It would be another and proven way to help out the salmon stocks recover. I’ve been fishing Prince Rupert for around 20 years and never had an issue with seals or sea lions taking my fish. Kitimat was a different story damn seals fallowed the salmon up the river had them snatch my coho several times. I got no issues with a little predator cull it’s not unlike trapping for wolves and big cats to help big game populations stay somewhat balanced. Anyone how spends a little time out in the woods the last five years can tell you what they have done to your favourite hunting spots same probably goes for offshore fishing holes. It’s been a long time since seals and sea lions have been targeted.
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Old 07-22-2018, 12:33 PM
IronNoggin IronNoggin is offline
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Originally Posted by pikeman06 View Post
... Anyone from alberta that is supporting any of this "poor me" line of garbage from our "neighbors" better think about supporting anything out there...
Your bitterness is more than evident, pretty much overwhelming in fact. However I suggest you are taking your fight to the wrong audience. The hunters and fishermen of BC are NOT your enemy, and we have a lot more in common with each other than not. I truly do hope that for your sake you can learn to deal with your anger issues in a more appropriate manner than slamming each and every resident of the province next door and blaming them for negative situations far beyond our control. As I told you previously, the vast majority of those who live outside of the LML do not share their views nor political persuasions, so please, give this a rest!

As for substantiation:

For simply harbor seals alone, their population went from around 10,000 in the early '70's, to in excess of 105,000 by 2008, and has not shown any indication of slowing down since.
Re: POPULATION ASSESSMENT: PACIFIC HARBOUR SEAL (PHOCA VITULINA RICHARDSI) DFO 2011

Seals consume approximately 40% of juvenile chinook and 47 % of the coho production in the Georgia Strait every year.

https://marinesurvivalproject.com/re...ist/predation/

Seals consume 6 times the catch by commercial and recreational fishermen.

http://www.nrcresearchpress.com/doi/...3#.W1TEasInbct

There is no single cause of the decline in Chinook stock, a comprehensive plan to protect our salmon stocks must include the discussion of the control of the seal population.

Harbor Seal diet in northern Puget Sound: implications for the recovery of depressed fish stock.
M. Lance, Monique & Chang, WY & Jeffries, Steven & Pearson, Scott & Acevedo-Gutierrez, Alejandro. (2012). Harbor seal diet in northern Puget Sound: Implications for the recovery of depressed fish stocks. Marine Ecology Progress Series. 464. 257-271. 10.3354/meps09880.

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-017-14984-8

"As more protected species respond positively to recovery efforts, managers should attempt to evaluate tradeoffs between these recovery efforts and the unintended ecosystem consequences of predation and competition on other protected species."

http://www.nrcresearchpress.com/doi/...3#.W1TEv8Inbct

Wild Chinook salmon productivity is negatively related to seal density, and not related to hatchery releases in the Pacific Northwest

http://www.nrcresearchpress.com/doi/...1#.W1TKDMInbcu

Tens of thousands of seals in the Salish Sea are devouring millions of adult and juvenile salmon, sparking renewed debate about culling the furry predators.

Recent studies have linked high seal-population density to troubled chinook runs and the decline of southern resident killer whales that feed on chinook in the summer.


https://theprovince.com/news/local-n...0-b1b4800cf615

There is more, but that should be sufficient for anyone to realize what the current situation is: Since being afforded blanket protection by the US & Canadian Governments, seal and sea lion populations have literally exploded. They are now at the point of being seriously beyond any realistic carrying capacity, and are inflicting enormous amounts of pressure on fish stocks, especially salmon. At this juncture, when commercial fishing has been reduced to an all-time low, and recreational fishing is taking serious cutbacks, the seals more than make up for these actions. In fact, before the cutbacks, seals & sea lions were consuming 600 % of the annual commercial and recreational catch combined. That is an obvious problem in anyone's books, and that problem is increasing annually.

Knee-jerk? Hardly. The best teams of science we have all point to the predation issue as very serious, one that is escalating, and one that should be dealt with. Recently the US concluded the same, and are setting up the process to control their own problem populations south of the line:

U.S. House approves bill to allow killing sea lions

WASHINGTON – The U.S. House passed a bill Tuesday that would allow tribal managers and government fish managers to kill limited numbers of sea lions in the Columbia River to improve the survival of endangered salmon and steelhead populations.


http://komonews.com/news/local/us-ho...l-of-sea-lions

Waste? Who said anything about waste?
This will not be a willy-nilly shoot 'em up open cull.
It will be a very focused and controlled harvest of certain individuals and groups of seals / sea lions that are having the greatest impact on salmon populations. Not so much a "shotgun effect" as more of a "surgical strike" kind of approach.

And for your information, the markets for the products this program will produce have been well identified, and largely secured before any thoughts towards proceeding further were given. They will not simply be shot and left, they will conversely be harvested in every true sense of that word.

This new group is comprised of First Nations, Recreational Fishermen (not simply the guides as someone here alluded to), the commercial sector, and a host of interested other parties. It has the backing of science, and has markets awaiting product as we speak.

It is doubtful that this undertaking will produce much in the way of income. In fact, it is more hoped that it will at least eventually cover the expenses incurred such that those involved will not be too much out of pocket while working for the greater good.

I did not come "creeping" on here to garner support from anyone.
The post was made as a newsworthy item I thought some in Alberta's outdoor world might wish to be enlightened on. And it is the hope that some still might that I will continue to add information as this process develops.

Obviously a seal harvest cannot be a stand-alone answer to the issues facing salmon and killer whales. Components relating to habitat mitigation / enhancement and population augmentation necessarily have to go hand in hand with any such program. We are collectively pressuring the federal government in this regard right now, and have been for some time now. Recent developments suggest that they may actually be listening, and preparing to take steps towards initiating those additional programs which will be required to restore our depleted salmon runs.

Cheers,
Nog
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Old 07-22-2018, 02:15 PM
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Great information Nog thanks for sharing I seen your post on thus subject on the BC forum as well please keep it coming. Seems a little more civil on that forum to for some reason there’s far to many people (experts) on this site like to bash one and another instead of sharing learned information as is the purpose of it.
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Old 07-22-2018, 09:00 PM
Marty S Marty S is offline
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Thanks for the great news Nog!

We better design some kind of massive gill nets for the sealers so they can over harvest the seals and get the numbers down faster!

I do believe the Chinese do want the seals for a meat market. They wanted the east coast seals a few years ago at least.
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Old 07-24-2018, 08:57 AM
Drewski Canuck Drewski Canuck is offline
 
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Default In the mean time ....

Years ago we were plagued with seals at Norris rock, Chrome Island, Tribune bay, etc.

I took a CD called "Whales of Blackfish Sound" (essentially underwater acoustic recordings of the different pod of KILLER WHALES).

I found the "transient, meat eating Killer Whale" section , and dubbed it onto a tape for about 20 minutes.

Each time we had a fish on, I would crank the boat stereo, and every single black greasy seal head would surface, and start swimming away!!!

At Norris Rock, we actually herded the seals onto the rock, just by blasting the killer whale sounds on the boat stereo.

Only fish we lost that trip was when my future sister in law, hit fast forward, and not play.

But yes, Washington is doing a big cull on a canal that goes to fish ladders, where the seals sit and pick off the salmon trying to go over the dam to the spawning beds, THIS IS IN FRESH WATER AND MILES FROM THE OCEAN!!!!

There is the same problem on the Puntlege river in Comox. Used to be loaded with hatchery salmon, now loaded with seals.

Drewski
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Old 07-24-2018, 09:40 AM
Positrac Positrac is offline
 
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Blast from the past Drewski. I spent many a trip all throughout the 80’s fishing Norris Rock, Tribune, Chrome Island, etc... My parents had good friends with lots on both Hornby and Denman so we would go there half a dozen times each summer. You are right though, there was a healthy population of seals on Norris.

I actually saw my first boobs on Tribune beach..lol.

Sorry for the highjack...so back on topic...
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Old 07-24-2018, 12:44 PM
Drewski Canuck Drewski Canuck is offline
 
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Default Killer Whale Floaty

Some years back there was this Vinyl inflatable pool toy that looked like a Killer Whale.

Someone tried towing it behind their boat off of the Capilano River mouth and it worked!!!

Word spread, and soon these floaties were sold out all over Vancouver and the Island. Seals would not follow any boat towing the Killer Whale Floatee.


You bet Seals eat a lot of salmon sitting at the river mouths. Especially the small rivers in a hot summer with low flow rates.

Drewski
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