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View Poll Results: Should handgun hunting be permitted?
yes, unrestricted. 120 51.50%
yes, but with special testing requirements. 51 21.89%
yes, but only for grouse. 1 0.43%
yes, but within it's own season. 14 6.01%
yes, but within the primitive season 9 3.86%
yes, but only for grouse. 0 0%
no. never. 35 15.02%
undecided. 11 4.72%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 233. You may not vote on this poll

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  #121  
Old 01-01-2012, 01:58 PM
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Originally Posted by beansgunsghandi View Post
Someone who wants to do something different or change an existing system needs to prove or at least make a good argument that doing the new thing will be broadly OK. Handgun hunting is not currently allowed; if you want to hunt with handguns then show us all why it's a such great idea. If you want to hunt from your truck seat at night with a spotting lamp then show us why it's great idea. Both are ridiculous in my view, but somebody on here will likely argue for both changes to the hunting regulations...

Allowing hunting with handguns would take a total re-write of restricted firearm law in Alberta and likely the entire country. Start with that if you want to hunt with handguns.

I'm not against everything, just that which strikes me as stupid and/or reflects poorly on us as a community. "Hunter" used to be a respected term; I think that respect has unfortunately worn very thin due to the actions of many idiots who call themselves hunters. Arguing for handgun hunting in Canada is like arguing for unprotected gay sex with seals, it's just not going to make a lot of sense outside a very small community of people.
And here is where your theory flies in the face of everything our forefathers have fought for. If you are not harming anyone you should be free to do as you please. You need not ask for broad acceptance.

At one time there was this lunatic that did not it was OK to be Jewish. He convinced an army that they were superior to other humans on the planet and that extermination would insure their place as rightful rulers. This was broadly accepted by his followers.

It is not like arguing to have unprotected gay sex with seals as our society protects those that can not protect or speak for themselves; including the animals and the environment as a whole.

It is however like arguing for unprotected gay sex as it is no ones business except for the couple involved. No one is asked to like it or dislike it they are only asked to be tolerant of others and their beliefs.

You people have been brainwashed by years of Liberal propaganda that would have you believe that we the people are too unintelligent to govern our own behaviour, that without control our society would revert to Bavarian standards.

This brainwashing insures a trough full for the hungry pigs that feed you this rhetoric via the CBC and other controlled media.
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  #122  
Old 01-01-2012, 02:03 PM
North of 53 North of 53 is offline
 
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And judging from the poll results so far, the vast majority of the forum members do not agree with your opinion.[/QUOTE]
Elkhunter
Your statement like that shows how you live in such a small world. The fact that only 50% favor unrestricted hunting with hand guns and a significant number of people don't want any hunting with hand guns should tell you something. This form is a very very small very pro-gun sample of the population so to make a statement like you did just shows how small you think. To use the form results to make your case is just silly, about all you can tell from the form results is that grouse are fairly safe from hand guns or at least anyone wanting only to hunt them with one.

The point was well made that to make hunting with hand guns legal would take some major changes in laws and that when you start changing laws for no good reason you may not like what you end up with. Other than "wouldn't it be fun to try" no one has put forth a compelling argument for the change to the law. If hand gun hunting was the status quo then some of your argument just might have validity in keeping it, but its not and if you look at the big picture it is probably best it stay the way it is.
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  #123  
Old 01-01-2012, 02:13 PM
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At one time there was this lunatic that did not it was OK to be Jewish. He convinced an army that they were superior to other humans on the planet and that extermination would insure their place as rightful rulers. This was broadly accepted by his followers.
Ironically, that same lunatic was a big proponent of gun control.


Quote:
The fact that only 50% favor unrestricted hunting with hand guns and a significant number of people don't want any hunting with hand guns
Actually about 80% of voters are in favor of hunting with handguns, while only about 15% are totally against hunting with handguns. I would hardly call 15% significant.

Quote:
when you start changing laws for no good reason you may not like what you end up with.
Which is exactly how we ended up with many of the current gun laws. And that is why we are asking for change.
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  #124  
Old 01-01-2012, 02:27 PM
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Originally Posted by billie View Post
I didn't really say I was opposed, but it could easily be inferred. My point was that I don't see the gain in introducing an inherently inaccurate close range weapon to hunt with. To me that is not emotional. I would like to see proficiency proved for every weapon but that won't happen any time soon either.

Anyway, I was just offering some content.
Cheers

Inherently inaccurate like a bow? Inherently inaccurate like a 100 year old milsurp .303 with a worn and pitted bore?

Many hunters enjoy the additional challenges presented to them by essentially handicapping themselves with their weapon choice. Bowhunting is one example, the muzzle-loader crowd would be another. I've seen video of fellows hunting with spears, which to me seems quite sportsmanlike. Sportsmanlike conduct would include allowing for fair chase, and a decent chance for the quarry to escape. Your statement insinuates that anything not guaranteeing a clean kill constitutes bad ethics. I would counter that any weapon that guarantees a kill is unethical and unsportsmanlike. Apparrently we should be using mortars coupled with heavy machine gun fire and the use of helicopters with FLIR optics following that particular train of thought.

So long as there is a human (or animal for that matter) element added to anything there are variables that allow for error. That will never be cured or eliminated by any type of short-sighted legislation, so why insist on fighting an irrational viewpoint?

I've noted that the frustrated individuals whose anti-handgun stance has been systematically picked apart by numerous members have resorted to the personal attacks and referencing rednecks and stereotypes, etc. This is a natural reaction to frustration, which is brought about by being on the losing side of a debate. Its the equivalent of tossing the chess board in the air when their inevitable loss becomes self-evident, and neither approach is right.

The comparison using the beastiality with seals is so far off the chart it doesn't even need me to offer a counterpoint. Its an attempt to associate perverts with people who would like to be handgun hunters; they existed together in a sentence so now they are equally bad. We on the pro side have not stooped to comparing anti-handgun hunters to child molesters so lets keep it rational please . If handgun use (even as backup when bowhunting) is so rare, please explain to me why major Canadian sporting goods retailers (capitalists who wouldn't stock merchandise that doesn't sell, btw) inventory so many shoulder holsters and hip holsters which are varieties that wouldn't be used in Cowboy Action shooting? There's not that many wilderness carry permits issued........

Also, please justify your stances with actual evidence besides how it makes you feel uncomfortable. Justify the restriction. Many old restrictions that had no original merit often get quashed; women and ethnic minorities can now vote, beating your spouse is now illegal, gay people can live in relative peace. See the improvements available from questioning that which had no logic in the first place?
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  #125  
Old 01-01-2012, 02:32 PM
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Originally Posted by MK2750 View Post
You people have been brainwashed by years of Liberal propaganda that would have you believe that we the people are too unintelligent to govern our own behaviour, that without control our society would revert to Bavarian standards.

Oh those Bavarians..... they make the Barbarians look like they're having tea with the Queen

Gotta love auto-correct
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  #126  
Old 01-01-2012, 02:54 PM
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Originally Posted by CaberTosser View Post
Inherently inaccurate like a bow? Inherently inaccurate like a 100 year old milsurp .303 with a worn and pitted bore?

Many hunters enjoy the additional challenges presented to them by essentially handicapping themselves with their weapon choice.
Yeah agreed, and I saw that one coming

IMO, a hunter that chooses a challenge spends the time and energy to become proficient with his or her weapon of choice. My view is that this would be sorely lacking in the handgun situation, maybe not. The average joe is better off with a rifle placed against his shoulder.
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  #127  
Old 01-01-2012, 03:21 PM
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It's a sad day indeed when our laws are all dictated by the behavior of those who set the low end of the bar......
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  #128  
Old 01-01-2012, 03:30 PM
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It's a sad day indeed when our laws are all dictated by the behavior of those who set the low end of the bar...
It's a sad day when our laws are set by those that choose to look only at the behavior of those at the low end of the bar. And yet those same lawmakers do little to actually deal with those people. Instead they just keep making more laws that punish everyone.
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  #129  
Old 01-01-2012, 03:55 PM
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I guess all laws are made for the low end, that's just how it works. If everyone behaved properly there would be no need for any laws.

Lines are drawn and moved all the time. Maybe some day the situation will change but I doubt it.
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  #130  
Old 01-01-2012, 04:22 PM
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Originally Posted by billie View Post
I guess all laws are made for the low end, that's just how it works. If everyone behaved properly there would be no need for any laws.

Lines are drawn and moved all the time. Maybe some day the situation will change but I doubt it.
Such truer words have never been spoken.

I have been an advocate for some kind of testing and licensing before open season on handgun hunting. I am obviously in the minority here, and as such I concede to the majority. The reasons for hand gun hunting are sound. The objections against mainly deal with how to limit the idiots from abusing the privilege. The reality is you can't eliminate the idiots. So why make laws that they won't understand or won't follow anyways?
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  #131  
Old 01-01-2012, 04:26 PM
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Such truer words have never been spoken.

I have been an advocate for some kind of testing and licensing before open season on handgun hunting. I am obviously in the minority here, and as such I concede to the majority. The reasons for hand gun hunting are sound. The objections against mainly deal with how to limit the idiots from abusing the privilege. The reality is you can't eliminate the idiots. So why make laws that they won't understand or won't follow anyways?
There is already testing in place to get a restricted licence, I see no reason to demand further testing just because a hand gun is going to be used for hunting and not at the range.
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  #132  
Old 01-01-2012, 04:50 PM
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Default So very wrong

I'll get back to this, quotes messing up.
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  #133  
Old 01-01-2012, 05:21 PM
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Allowing hunting with handguns would take a total re-write of restricted firearm law in Alberta and likely the entire country. Start with that if you want to hunt with handguns.

I'm not against everything, just that which strikes me as stupid and/or reflects poorly on us as a community. "Hunter" used to be a respected term; I think that respect has unfortunately worn very thin due to the actions of many idiots who call themselves hunters. Arguing for handgun hunting in Canada is like arguing for unprotected gay sex with seals, it's just not going to make a lot of sense outside a very small community of people.[/QUOTE]

Arguing for handgun hunting in Canada, or Alberta specifically is nothing more than an interested group however big or small, wanting to pursue an activity we enjoy. The hunting community is already a minority in this province and country. I believe we have already proven that does not mean we will hide in the shadows and stop lobbying against laws that we feel take away from our freedoms. I am not sure where you are coming from with having unprotected gay sex with seals, either the little furry ones, or the camo clad machine gun carrying kind, and you do not have to prove to me it is in the best interest of everyone. I may not agree with it, but it does not affect my freedom one way or the other, so I would not vote against it, if that is something you want to do, go for it.You have the FREEDOM to do so.
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  #134  
Old 01-01-2012, 05:38 PM
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It's supposed to be a free country,if you want to have gay sex with seals or blast em with your handgun,the choice should be up to you.
I guess different strokes for different folks.
The choice is ours to hunt with a handgun.
WHY?
Because a handgun is a firearm!!!Plain and simple!!!
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  #135  
Old 01-01-2012, 05:52 PM
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Originally Posted by rwm1273 View Post
Such truer words have never been spoken.

I have been an advocate for some kind of testing and licensing before open season on handgun hunting. I am obviously in the minority here, and as such I concede to the majority. The reasons for hand gun hunting are sound. The objections against mainly deal with how to limit the idiots from abusing the privilege. The reality is you can't eliminate the idiots. So why make laws that they won't understand or won't follow anyways?
what you are advocating sounds good in theory but your last sentence is the reality of it. and it applies to all things in life. and for some reason most idiots seam to pass tests quite easly.
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  #136  
Old 01-01-2012, 06:29 PM
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Yikes!! I'm totally about moving in the opposite direction. I really enjoy shooting my guns but enjoy the art of hunting much more. What if we eliminated all gun hunting, went to bow only. Let's make it a real challenge to tag an animal. Can you imagine the trophy quality of the animals out there yet still easy enough to fill the freezer. Get rid of 95% of the road hunters, get the lazy hunters off their arse. Never be scoped again during rifle season... Seems to good to be true.. Pipe dreams... Can you beleive I'm an American saying this...

Let the bashing begin...
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  #137  
Old 01-01-2012, 06:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Element View Post
Yikes!! I'm totally about moving in the opposite direction. I really enjoy shooting my guns but enjoy the art of hunting much more. What if we eliminated all gun hunting, went to bow only. Let's make it a real challenge to tag an animal. Can you imagine the trophy quality of the animals out there yet still easy enough to fill the freezer. Get rid of 95% of the road hunters, get the lazy hunters off their arse. Never be scoped again during rifle season... Seems to good to be true.. Pipe dreams... Can you beleive I'm an American saying this...

Let the bashing begin...
Where is Darwin when you need him.....
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  #138  
Old 01-01-2012, 06:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Element View Post
Yikes!! I'm totally about moving in the opposite direction. I really enjoy shooting my guns but enjoy the art of hunting much more. What if we eliminated all gun hunting, went to bow only. Let's make it a real challenge to tag an animal. Can you imagine the trophy quality of the animals out there yet still easy enough to fill the freezer. Get rid of 95% of the road hunters, get the lazy hunters off their arse. Never be scoped again during rifle season... Seems to good to be true.. Pipe dreams... Can you beleive I'm an American saying this...

Let the bashing begin...
Seeings how you come from a juristiction that allows hand gun hunting, what is your take on it to answer some of the concerns expressed by some of the posters in this thread?

Is it inherintly dangerous?

Does haveing a handgun make you lose all sense of reason and make rash decisions?

Does it lead to a epidemic of wounded game?

Is there a natural progression from handgun hunter to mobile hitman for gangs? (thanks CTD, that driveby comment was priceless)
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  #139  
Old 01-01-2012, 06:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Element View Post
Yikes!! I'm totally about moving in the opposite direction. I really enjoy shooting my guns but enjoy the art of hunting much more. What if we eliminated all gun hunting, went to bow only. Let's make it a real challenge to tag an animal. Can you imagine the trophy quality of the animals out there yet still easy enough to fill the freezer. Get rid of 95% of the road hunters, get the lazy hunters off their arse. Never be scoped again during rifle season... Seems to good to be true.. Pipe dreams... Can you beleive I'm an American saying this...

Let the bashing begin...
There's a thought, let's take it another parallel step and ban vehicles to get to your hunting spot. That'll make it more of a challenge and weed out the guys who aren't truly committed. If it's worth putting an arrow in, it's worth carrying home. I like fresh vegetables as well as meat, and in a parallel to hunting I find it much more satisfying to grow them in our own garden, so logically we should ban produce sections in grocery stores because someones going to buy more veggies than they need and let them go to waste.


In a non-sarcastic comment to your wish to make things more challenging, we would probably get to your "no guns for hunting" utopia in stages; so we would likely have to eliminate long guns for hunting and replace them with handguns en route to our bowhunting and finally arrive at spear hunting as our true final agenda. I'd suggest knives or hand to antler combat, but that's just getting silly

You asked for a bashing
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  #140  
Old 01-01-2012, 07:06 PM
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Taking into consideration that handgun hunting is allowed in some (if not all) US states I would suggest we gather some statistics from the fish & wildlife authorities in those areas and allow that data to be imparted into this discussion. I will go out on a limb and guess that such data would support the pro handgun hunting side of this particular debate.


Another part of this poll that is skewed is the number of choices: there should be 3. Yes, no or undecided. The other subsections of the "yes" choice serve only to dilute the statistics while the "no" vote remains unaffected. This is a common tactic used by pollsters. I believe the OP was just doing it for humor purposes, but it does serve as a good example of the technique.

26 no's
9 undecided
142 of various yes's when properly compiled
This out of 177 thus far

142 out of 177 is a significant majority.
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  #141  
Old 01-01-2012, 07:25 PM
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Allowing hunting with handguns would take a total re-write of restricted firearm law in Alberta and likely the entire country.
No, it would not. All it would require is removing the prohibition in our Wildlife Act and a CFO that will issue some permits. It's that simple.

Here's a true story:

I was interested last year in how to shoot some pest coyotes off my deck using a .357 loaded with quiet .38 rounds. (No, I am not going to justify that to anyone. I wanted to. It's my deck and my property and they were after my dogs.) Anyway, I talked to the Firearms Centre in N.S. and they said I could only fire a handgun at a range. I asked her to show me that law. On hold. I was kicked upstairs. On hold again. There is no such law. I was then directed to the provincial CFO to see what s/he said. She agreed with me - there is no restriction to shooting off my back deck (out in the country) since the handgun would not have left my "residence". HOWEVER, the Wildlife Act prohibits hunting "wildlife" with a pistol and coyotes are wildlife. So, that was the end of that. It is an irrational law; a subsonic .38 round would be much quieter than my 12 ga.

Trotting out scenarios of Yosemite Sam blasting the countryside with his six-guns is not a rational justification to banning hunting with a handgun. Ironically, the opponents who raise such intolerant imaginations will call the rest of us "inbred rednecks" in the same breath. If you ask me, it is they who are sounding like an inbred redneck, not I.

Quote:
Start with that if you want to hunt with handguns.
Impossible. Handgun hunting needs to start in one or two jurisdictions. Alberta is probably the best bet.

Only when the Gun Zombies see that the sky did not fall after handgun hunting was allowed somewhere will we be able to have a bigger conversation. Until then, there are many who are so brainwashed that all they can see are reruns of Yosemite Sam cartoons when the word "pistol" is uttered. Rational conversation becomes impossible. If we opened up hunting to handguns, probably with a calibre restriction like Huntin'Stuff proposed, I have little doubt nothing bad would happen. Folks who went hunting with a handgun would buy a lot of ground blinds and get closer. Not much different than the archers. I would have a pistol in my wall tent at night along with my short-barreled 12 ga. So what?

It is true that there is a large emotional/mental block to overcome. That emotional opposition is not based on fact but it is real. It is known as bigotry. I have never heard a good reason to back away from bigotry; including the fact that sometimes there are a great many bigots lined up on the other side.

Would it take some significant effort? Yes.

Would it take some real pressuring of politicians? Yes.

Would it take money for the effort? Yes.

Would there be lots of name-calling from those who like bans - and others? Yes.

So?
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  #142  
Old 01-01-2012, 07:26 PM
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People are talking about Rights and Freedoms. What are your rights? What are your Freeooms.
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  #143  
Old 01-01-2012, 07:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Element View Post
Yikes!! I'm totally about moving in the opposite direction. I really enjoy shooting my guns but enjoy the art of hunting much more. What if we eliminated all gun hunting, went to bow only. Let's make it a real challenge to tag an animal. Can you imagine the trophy quality of the animals out there yet still easy enough to fill the freezer. Get rid of 95% of the road hunters, get the lazy hunters off their arse. Never be scoped again during rifle season... Seems to good to be true.. Pipe dreams... Can you beleive I'm an American saying this...

Let the bashing begin...
No wonder you moved to canada a statement like that cuold get you shot for treason LOL
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  #144  
Old 01-01-2012, 07:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Element View Post
Yikes!! I'm totally about moving in the opposite direction. I really enjoy shooting my guns but enjoy the art of hunting much more. What if we eliminated all gun hunting, went to bow only. Let's make it a real challenge to tag an animal. Can you imagine the trophy quality of the animals out there yet still easy enough to fill the freezer. Get rid of 95% of the road hunters, get the lazy hunters off their arse. Never be scoped again during rifle season... Seems to good to be true.. Pipe dreams... Can you beleive I'm an American saying this...

Let the bashing begin...
Hehehe

How bout you do your thing, and we do ours...
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  #145  
Old 01-01-2012, 07:38 PM
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Yup, figured it wouldn't take long... I'm really not looking for a fight and name calling which many you tend to lower yourselves too... Yes, I enjoy my guns and hunting with rifles but would be willing to give it up in a heartbeat. I guess I just envy a world without guns. I know this is not realistic, but can't a fellow dream.. I also understand I can have great hunting success without needing a gun.

I'm just guessing you didn't grow up in Louisiana and experience such awful gun violence. Driving through the ghetto with your seat laid back just in case...

Is it asking you to much to respect my thoughts? Many of you take it for granted how good we have it here in Canada.

Last edited by Element; 01-01-2012 at 07:52 PM.
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  #146  
Old 01-01-2012, 07:43 PM
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^^^^^ I thought you were being sarcastic in post #136.....disregard post #138.
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  #147  
Old 01-01-2012, 07:48 PM
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I guess I just envy a world without guns.
Uh, huh. I guess you've never seen the pointy end of a knife.

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Many of you take it for granted how good we have it here in Canada.
It's quite the reverse, actually. It is we who take nothing for granted. It is those who don't mind surrendering this or that to satisfy some irrational loudmouths that are taking things for granted. It is those who think the status quo, imperfect as it is, will last forever if only we don't rock the boat who are taking things for granted.

Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom, must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it.
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  #148  
Old 01-01-2012, 07:53 PM
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i wouldnt mind hand gun hunting at all. i would like to see some additional training required with the alberta hunting training. maybe grand father everyone now that has a restricted license and hunting course. in the future at some given date add the extra training for the young ones coming up.
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  #149  
Old 01-01-2012, 08:14 PM
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i wouldnt mind hand gun hunting at all. i would like to see some additional training required with the alberta hunting training.
Additional training for everyone or just those who would choose to hunt with the short-barreled guns? If the latter, .....why, I wonder?
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  #150  
Old 01-01-2012, 08:35 PM
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Element

If you choose a gun free world, by all means, turn yours in. Its the first step. You are free to do it and none of us will ever stop you.

A gun free world is just that, gun free. Its not murder free, accident free, violence free or safer....it's just gun free.

No one can stop anti gun people from buying guns, then turning them in for destruction. That's free enterprise and effective. It gurarantees that particular firearm will never kill an animal or person.

Or, you can keep your guns and practice safe handling and excellent shooting skills and ensure no animals are wounded or people killed. That is what we call responsible firearms ownership and handling.

The "for sale" forum here is full of guns for sale. Feel free to buy some, turn them in for destruction, and proudly post a picture of your police receipt. I'd definitely respect that kind of resolve.
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