Why Alberta is Restless

[KGB]

Originally Posted by 58thecat

And get a tattoo inside their bottom lip...just to have quick proof of thier values.

Lol! Sure, why not! What a hell! Might as well go full throttle!

[EZM]

Set aside the political and social values where Alberta differs from many other parts of the country and just focus on the economy .....

Nobody can argue that we have paid allot and received very little in return and Alberta is likely the most abused, and inequitable partner in this confederation.

One could easily assume our standard of living, the services we have, the education we give our kids, the health care we enjoy, and the roads we drive, etc... could have been so much better have we had the opportunity to reinvest our own money into our own province.

BUT

Would separation lead to hesitancy from long term investment into our province causing some (or most) of this prosperity to disappear? And how big of an impact would that be?

That's the golden question in my mind ...

I'm suggesting this could be so much more significant than we may even realize. So, as a cautious person who tries to think pragmatically, I'd be hesitant to get on this bus.

[270person]

Amazing post Dean. Love to see the numbers updated to end of 22. Eye opening for those voting for the left side of the political spectrum thinking the government works for and will take care of "them" as time moves forward.

I guess if one works within the civil service sector it all makes perfect sense.

[W921]

Originally Posted by Don_Parsons

One would think that a chunk of the National debt goes with the departing.

If so, would it be in the trillions.

Quebec wanted out only too find out they didn't have the funds.

Doo Noo as it would be hard too start a new country these days.

Don

Quebec was going to borrow the money from Ottawa but then were insulted because they expected franc's not dollars haha

[elkhunter11]

Originally Posted by EZM

Set aside the political and social values where Alberta differs from many other parts of the country and just focus on the economy .....

Nobody can argue that we have paid allot and received very little in return and Alberta is likely the most abused, and inequitable partner in this confederation.

One could easily assume our standard of living, the services we have, the education we give our kids, the health care we enjoy, and the roads we drive, etc... could have been so much better have we had the opportunity to reinvest our own money into our own province.

BUT

Would separation lead to hesitancy from long term investment into our province causing some (or most) of this prosperity to disappear? And how big of an impact would that be?

That's the golden question in my mind ...

I'm suggesting this could be so much more significant than we may even realize. So, as a cautious person who tries to think pragmatically, I'd be hesitant to get on this bus.

And there are two sides to the investment topic, the other side being with no anti oil federal government, some companies may be more inclined to invest in Alberta oil.

[Trochu]

Originally Posted by Don_Parsons

One would think that a chunk of the National debt goes with the departing.

If so, would it be in the trillions.

Just to touch on this. Canada's entire national debt is barely in the trillions at about $2.2 trillion. If you divide that by the population, approx. 38M, to get a per person debt, then multiply it by Alberta's population, our share is only about $250B. A huge number, absolutely, but far from "trillions".

I think it would be doable.

[pikergolf]

Originally Posted by EZM

Set aside the political and social values where Alberta differs from many other parts of the country and just focus on the economy .....

Nobody can argue that we have paid allot and received very little in return and Alberta is likely the most abused, and inequitable partner in this confederation.

One could easily assume our standard of living, the services we have, the education we give our kids, the health care we enjoy, and the roads we drive, etc... could have been so much better have we had the opportunity to reinvest our own money into our own province.

BUT

Would separation lead to hesitancy from long term investment into our province causing some (or most) of this prosperity to disappear? And how big of an impact would that be?

That's the golden question in my mind ...

I'm suggesting this could be so much more significant than we may even realize. So, as a cautious person who tries to think pragmatically, I'd be hesitant to get on this bus.

Separation would not be done for one self, the rewards take to long. It would be done for a better life for your children and grandchildren. One of the biggest problems with society right now is that we only look to the next few years. If socialists get a hold it usually ends in blood shed down the line, I would like to spare my kids and grandkids that.

[Smoky buck]

Originally Posted by EZM

Set aside the political and social values where Alberta differs from many other parts of the country and just focus on the economy .....

Nobody can argue that we have paid allot and received very little in return and Alberta is likely the most abused, and inequitable partner in this confederation.

One could easily assume our standard of living, the services we have, the education we give our kids, the health care we enjoy, and the roads we drive, etc... could have been so much better have we had the opportunity to reinvest our own money into our own province.

BUT

Would separation lead to hesitancy from long term investment into our province causing some (or most) of this prosperity to disappear? And how big of an impact would that be?

That's the golden question in my mind ...

I'm suggesting this could be so much more significant than we may even realize. So, as a cautious person who tries to think pragmatically, I'd be hesitant to get on this bus.

Willingness to invest in Canada has already been declining and continuing to decline do to the uncertainties our federal government has created do to ongoing cancellations of large projects, the stalling of projects through protests/FN disputes, ongoing regulatory/excessive consultation and the ongoing of projects blowing way past their budget without even seeing completion

Canada is already pushing away investment so there is a possibility that investors may view an independent Alberta as an alternative if the governing body was more welcoming than Canada

In the end yes Alberta would have to establish a good reputation for worthwhile investment but I don’t think it would be too hard to improve on the present state of Canada’s reputation

[7magtime]

Originally Posted by Smoky buck

Willingness to invest in Canada has already been declining and continuing to decline do to the uncertainties our federal government has created do to ongoing cancellations of large projects, the stalling of projects through protests/FN disputes, ongoing regulatory/excessive consultation and the ongoing of projects blowing way past their budget without even seeing completion

Canada is already pushing away investment so there is a possibility that investors may view an independent Alberta as an alternative if the governing body was more welcoming than Canada

In the end yes Alberta would have to establish a good reputation for worthwhile investment but I don’t think it would be too hard to improve on the present state of Canada’s reputation

Well said and agree Smoky!

[makin tracks]

could be wrong, but i think that if Alberta would separate from the rest of Canada, investment money for oil,gas, farm products,timber, and minerals would be knocking at the door rather quickly, with Manitoba, Saskatchewan and NE BC coming along in the not to distant future. we would likely get world prices for our products as well, and with no Ottawa carbon taxes or debt payout, tell trudy to pound sand! just what is he going to do? he has no military power, no money, and all his voter base is LGBQxxxx! usa would hold their arms wide open for us to join just to keep them supplied with our products. ship all the ndp/LGBQxxxx voters off to Toronto.
would be interesting,

[Dean2]

Was never a fan of separating but with the direction Canada is headed, we really may have no option. We also need to do it while we still can. It is entirely doable, it is constitutional, we could easily absorb out share of the debt, but to be clear, none of the debt actually belongs to Alberta, we have paid in WAY WAY WAY more than we have ever received. Even Health Care funding from the Feds is just our own Alberta Tax Dollars paid in Federal Income Tax. As far as investment, Norway, Ireland, New Zealand et al have zero issues attracting investment, way smaller land mass, roughly the same population.

Swap NDP and Liberal for Democrat and you have the same outcome.



And on the Subject of why Edmonton and now Calgary are headed for the great dipper debacle.

[cowmanbob]

I like how you think.

[PartTimeHunter]

Originally Posted by Dean2

Was never a fan of separating but with the direction Canada is headed, we really may have no option. We also need to do it while we still can. It is entirely doable, it is constitutional, we could easily absorb out share of the debt, but to be clear, none of the debt actually belongs to Alberta, we have paid in WAY WAY WAY more than we have ever received. Even Health Care funding from the Feds is just our own Alberta Tax Dollars paid in Federal Income Tax. As far as investment, Norway, Ireland, New Zealand et al have zero issues attracting investment, way smaller land mass, roughly the same population.

Swap NDP and Liberal for Democrat and you have the same outcome.



And on the Subject of why Edmonton and now Calgary are headed for the great dipper debacle.

So many don't get this. The feds aren't giving us anything. They allow a (small) portion of what they collect from us to come back for health care. As a first step to right the wrongs Alberta should be collecting the tax (as quebec does) and sending to Ottawa what we deem is necessary after our bills are paid. We then control the accounting as quebec does now. We can make the numbers more favourable to our finances and pay less to Ottawa.
I am in favour of separating, should have started that ball rolling a long time ago. Alberta would prosper without Ottawa constantly getting in the way or outright impeding us.

[Dean2]

The part so many people don't get is how badly Alberta is treated in terms of taxation. Norway has a maximum 22% Income tax. They have a 25% VAT. So you are only taxed at 22% on money you save, and only pay VAT on money you actually spend. Total tax 47% on consumption. Norway banks 100% of the Royalty income from their oil and gas. Norway has superior social services and much better health care than Canada.(Norway is rated about 9th in the world, Canada 24th. Even India ranks ahead of Canada)

In Canada, between Federal and Provincial Income tax we are already at 47%. Then add GST, sales tax in other provinces and what the NDP would love to put in place in Alberta, property taxes, school taxes, Carbon taxes etc and we are approaching 60% tax load. Alberta sends the Fed gov, in the form of Federal Income tax, 15 BILLION a year more than we get back. Almost 14 Billion of that goes to cover transfer payments to Quebec. As of 2021, and since 1967, Alberta has contributed 600 BILLION to the feds.

Despite Alberta's out sized contributions, the Federal Government remains completely focused on destroying Alberta's economy, just like it has been since Pierre Trudeau introduced the National Energy Program. Time to find a better way because we will never have the population to force fair treatment within confederation.

[Lornce]

Remember when Ralph was in charge, we where starting to get bonises back.

[jan]

Love,your post Dean.
All the numbers are Eye opening.
Canada should be one of the richest country, but not under current running federal government politicians. Idea of Alberta separation will make us Alberta's prosperous again ,with not sharing or donating anything to our hungry and blood sucker federal government. Now question? When
that will happen, when people will say "ITS ENOUGH "
We don't need individual people complaining, changes would not be done by one person. We need all mass people willing change.
I grew up in Poland and I know how hard to change. Many people was afraid of changing. Many people was punished by government in power. I know Canada is in different situations.
I am afraid our forum also is controlled some way by ,firstly, our moderators, police and government. Talking about Dean.I am afraid he will be punish for his grateful advices and Eye opening suggestions. I know happening to him before.
Thanks Dean for providing us with all information.
Together, change is possible.

[Ariu]

A separation of Alberta and/or changes on equalization and federal transfers would require constitutional changes. It won't happen. Unless of course AB goes in full Yugoslavian mode.