Meat spoilage in extreme cold

[N3wbi3]

Thought the best answers to this questions would probably come from the hunting crowd. I'm not a hunter myself - yet.

Unfortunately my question isn't about a deer but thought there'd be some similarities... With this severe cold snap we've been in I've been crossing my fingers that our emus will survive. First winter with them - but so far, so good.

BUT, my question is that if one should ever succumb to the cold during the night (colder than minus 30).... if it was found first thing in the morning should it still be safe to immediately process for consumption? Assuming it was healthy of course.

There's typically a good amount of (pricey) meat on an emu and I'd hate to have it go to waste.

I know it's imperative to gut an animal soon but I wasn't sure of timeframes - especially in extreme cold.

Greatly appreciate any input!

[catnthehat]

I'm not a butcher but I am a life long hunter and Trapper.
If your birds die of cold there is no issue with butchering them when you find them .
Trappers regularly eat animals they trap that have been dead for a while and frozen .
EDIT NOTE: WELCOME TO AO!
Cat

[CanuckShooter]

Shouldn't be an issue, assuming of course the means of death wasn't some deadly virus.

Some hunters have been known to leave a game animal overnight in the bush undressed [full of guts not naked!] because they are afraid to push it, or maybe they are just scared of predators when it gets dark?

[MooseRiverTrapper]

Any death from a hunter or trapper is immediate or the intentions were for immediate. Any animal that succumbed to natural causes in the night I wouldn’t touch. I would hope that you wouldn’t sell meat off a bird that froze in the night.

Rather then asking that question I would get the birds some heat if you know they are struggling that bad.

[N3wbi3]

Originally Posted by MooseRiverTrapper

Any death from a hunter or trapper is immediate or the intentions were for immediate. Any animal that succumbed to natural causes in the night I wouldn’t touch. I would hope that you wouldn’t sell meat off a bird that froze in the night.

Rather then asking that question I would get the birds some heat if you know they are struggling that bad.

-> They have a large heated farrowing mat that they can and do lay on as well as shelter, thanks for your concern. Though I'm sure you can appreciate that in -40 it's still darn cold and a shelter is no where near as insulated and air tight as a human home. Also, you can't just lead an emu with a leash nor herd them to get them into another building they're unfamiliar with - you'd risk serious injury to both the bird AND the handler (they're also prone to capture myopathy). From other owners I've always heard that they're surprisingly hardy - and so far they have been.
That being said, at the beginning of the cold snap, I was worried about how well they'd handle it and was worried everything I'd head out at first light to check on them. So, the "what-if" question came to mind as to what I would do should I find one that hadn't made it. There wouldn't be any intention of it happening in the first place - so 'intention for immediate' isn't all that relevant to this inquiry.

And no, if that were the case - I'd be inquiring as to personal consumption, certainly not sale. When I mentioned "pricey" it was in reference to if I were to purchase emu meat in a retail location - as it is simply a pricier red meat to be wasted. We breed rare, exotic and ornamental waterfowl, poultry, pheasants and geese (all quite pampered) - raising meat is far from my focus. I just plainly hate something going to waste if there's an alternative.

[N3wbi3]

Originally Posted by catnthehat

I'm not a butcher but I am a life long hunter and Trapper.
If your birds die of cold there is no issue with butchering them when you find them .
Trappers regularly eat animals they trap that have been dead for a while and frozen .
EDIT NOTE: WELCOME TO AO!
Cat

Thanks so much for your reply, I really appreciate it!

I hope I never have to be in the situation where Im faced with it but I'm glad to know that the meat doesnt necessarily have to be wasted if it ever does.

[N3wbi3]

Originally Posted by CanuckShooter

Shouldn't be an issue, assuming of course the means of death wasn't some deadly virus.

Some hunters have been known to leave a game animal overnight in the bush undressed [full of guts not naked!] because they are afraid to push it, or maybe they are just scared of predators when it gets dark?

Thanks for your reply! It's greatly appreciated 😊. Of course, I would never risk it if there were any signs of illness, disease or anything remotely questionable in terms of health.
Edit: And only as a result of an extreme cold weather event - not 'natural causes'.

I've be involved in my fair share of unpleasant livestock/avian necropsies and have no desire to consume anything sketchy *shudder*.

[Dewey Cox]

I wouldn't.
It's not like it "flash froze" and died instantly, or was killed in a trap, and then froze.
I don't know how it's body works, and what happens to it if it dies from the cold.
Maybe the cold made their liver stop working, and all those poisons built up over the last week of it's life, and that's what killed it?
Coyotes gotta eat too.
If you have livestock, you're going to have dead stock.
(Insert next cliche here)

[cowmanbob]

It’s your responsibility to provide a shelter that the birds can survive in. No different than leaving a short haired dog outside with inadequate facilities.

[N3wbi3]

Originally Posted by Dewey Cox

I wouldn't.
It's not like it "flash froze" and died instantly, or was killed in a trap, and then froze.
I don't know how it's body works, and what happens to it if it dies from the cold.
Maybe the cold made their liver stop working, and all those poisons built up over the last week of it's life, and that's what killed it?
Coyotes gotta eat too.
If you have livestock, you're going to have dead stock.
(Insert next cliche here)

That's definitely a perspective worth considering. I could be wrong, but I'm fairly certain that its a a slowing heart and the cessation of circulation that ceases function of the nervous/respiratory systems and organs - I don't believe there would be a great accumulation of toxins by the time of death provided of course that it wasn't a drawn out starvation due to the cold.... but I'll pull out the books and do some further reading about the process with hypothermia. That was something that hadn't crossed my mind.

But barring that, hypothetically, if a deer wasnt field gutted in 6-8 hours after a kill in minus 35, would you still consume it? Provided that there was nothing that smelled or appeared "off"....

[N3wbi3]

Originally Posted by cowmanbob

It’s your responsibility to provide a shelter that the birds can survive in. No different than leaving a short haired dog outside with inadequate facilities.

This was a hypothetical "what if" question. Thanks for your concern. They have shelter and a heat source. And they are doing well thus far, showing no signs of distress and are surpringly hardy (as we had been informed) - and have a significant amount of down and 6" of feathers (far from a short haired dog). They are well cared for and all of our animals are quite pampered. However, this is our first winter with them and this question of "what if" has crossed my mind.

[catnthehat]

Originally Posted by N3wbi3

This was a hypothetical "what if" question. Thanks for your concern. They have shelter and a heat source. And they are doing well thus far, showing no signs of distress and are surpringly hardy (as we had been informed) - and have a significant amount of down and 6" of feathers (far from a short haired dog). They are well cared for and all of our animals are quite pampered. However, this is our first winter with them and this question of "what if" has crossed my mind.

You have mail!
Cat

[270person]

[N3wbi3]

Originally Posted by 270person

Looks like a happy guy! Yours?

[Smokinyotes]

Originally Posted by cowmanbob

It’s your responsibility to provide a shelter that the birds can survive in. No different than leaving a short haired dog outside with inadequate facilities.

Exactly. If you can’t provide adequate facilities to Guarantee they aren’t going to freeze to death sell them to someone that can take proper care of them. Why would you go getting emus if you don’t have adequate facilities.

[N3wbi3]

Originally Posted by Smokinyotes

Exactly. If you can’t provide adequate facilities to Guarantee they aren’t going to freeze to death sell them to someone that can take proper care of them. Why would you go getting emus if you don’t have adequate facilities.

I take it you haven't really read any of my responses... 🙄
They have adequate shelter as good or better than recommended by other Canadian breeders and a source of heat and are well cared for, doing fine and show no signs of distress. But in a -40 cold snap and our first winter with birds native to Australia, I still worry about the possibility that they aren't as tolerant as reported and simply had a "what if" question that I was looking for input on.

[TrapperMike]

Make sure they have lots of straw to nestle down in, and a good shelter out of the wind. Have lots of experience, at our peak we had 1200 birds. And yes this was in Alberta.

[N3wbi3]

Originally Posted by TrapperMike

Make sure they have lots of straw to nestle down in, and a good shelter out of the wind. Have lots of experience, at our peak we had 1200 birds. And yes this was in Alberta.

Yep, they have plenty of straw, shelter from the elements and an extra large heated farrowing mat that they can and do lay on. We dont quite have 1200 birds year round, lol. I couldn't fathom caring for that many in the winter, unless one was set up in a large production facility. But during hatching season we have more than enough to keep us hopping (rare, exotic and ornamental waterfowl, ducks, poultry, pheasants and geese - and our single pair of emus, lol). No frostbite or cold injuries in anything so far - and hoping to keep it that way 😊.

[Smokinyotes]

Originally Posted by N3wbi3

I take it you haven't really read any of my responses... 🙄
They have adequate shelter as good or better than recommended by other Canadian breeders and a source of heat and are well cared for, doing fine and show no signs of distress. But in a -40 cold snap and our first winter with birds native to Australia, I still worry about the possibility that they aren't as tolerant as reported and simply had a "what if" question that I was looking for input on.

I read all your responses but “ keeping your fingers crossed” doesn’t cut it when it comes to animal welfare.

[N3wbi3]

Originally Posted by Smokinyotes

I read all your responses but “ keeping your fingers crossed” doesn’t cut it when it comes to animal welfare.

If I could edit my original post - I certainly would. I evidently didn’t use the best choice of words nor explain their living conditions in great detail since I didn't think it would affect the answers to the hypothetical question in respect to meat edibility/safety in a hunting forum. But I did elaborate in much greater detail in my responses to other similar statements.
Now, let me reiterate. They have appropriate shelter. They have a heat source that they can and do utilize. They are well fed, have plenty of water and bedding. Thus far, a couple weeks into a severe cold snap, they appear to be doing well and show no signs of distress, illness or cold injury. They have routine veterinary care, vaccinations and are checked on multiple times each day - as well as recieve all the pets and cuddles they could want. We also have cameras in every facility that our customers have free access to log into and view at any time for transparency. Should you have any additional questions about our avian care and husbandry - feel free to ask.

[wildwoods]

Originally Posted by N3wbi3

If I could edit my original post - I certainly would. I evidently didn’t use the best choice of words nor explain their living conditions in great detail since I didn't think it would affect the answers to the hypothetical question in respect to meat edibility/safety in a hunting forum. But I did elaborate in much greater detail in my responses to other similar statements.
Now, let me reiterate. They have appropriate shelter. They have a heat source that they can and do utilize. They are well fed, have plenty of water and bedding. Thus far, a couple weeks into a severe cold snap, they appear to be doing well and show no signs of distress, illness or cold injury. They have routine veterinary care, vaccinations and are checked on multiple times each day - as well as recieve all the pets and cuddles they could want. We also have cameras in every facility that our customers have free access to log into and view at any time for transparency. Should you have any additional questions about our avian care and husbandry - feel free to ask.

You don’t have to keep explaining yourself. You’ve done your homework. Leave it at that. Some folks like to argue online. Don’t stress too hard about that lol

Welcome to the forum! Sounds like you are busy folks!

[oldgutpile]

No animal should be processed if found dead, unless you actually see it die. Internal gases can and do build up generating heat that amounts to spoilage.
Working in the meat industry for 40 years, I have seen a lot, and had a lot of reasons to shake my head at what some people will do.
From personal experience, my Zama bison was shot and gutted in -45 weather. Loaded onto a trailer and hauled home for processing at my own facility, after 48 hours, the underside front quarter generated enough sour meat to lose aproximately 200 lbs of waste. Any animal that can survive in that climate, has enough insulation to hold the heat in.
Assuming that this would be only for your own personal use, you would want to check every cut as you go for spoilage. And this, only if you were 100% positive that it was a case of hypothermia, predation, or some other cause other than sickness or disease.
If one of your stock dies from hypothermia, might as well butcher a fresh one because you're likely to lose more.

[Mb-MBR]

Originally Posted by wildwoods

You don’t have to keep explaining yourself. You’ve done your homework. Leave it at that. Some folks like to argue online. Don’t stress too hard about that lol

Welcome to the forum! Sounds like you are busy folks!

This........

[KegRiver]

I am not an expert by any means, I do have some experience with this sort of thing.

Many years ago a friend shot a Moose and hit it but it ran. At that point he didn't know he had hit it. A moment later a second Moose stepped out of the same patch of willows.
Thinking he has missed the first Moose he shot the second Moose and it dropped where it stood.

When he got it gutted he looked for the tracks of the first Moose. Upon finding them he noticed a small amount of blood where it has stood so he started tracking it, but ran out of light and had to abandon the track for that day.

The next day I went with him, to pack out the second Moose and hopefully find the first Moose.

We found the first Moose nearly a mile from where it had been hit. From the sign we concluded it had lived about half the night, not a good thought, but it was what it was so we butchered it.

The legs and outer layer of meat was frozen but we were more concerned about it having been left un-gutted for so long.

We needn't have worried. We eat it and could find no difference between the second Moose and the first as far as taste or quality.
They were both good.

Honestly, I believe that most of what people consider not good to eat is based more on misconceptions then reality.

[58thecat]

Originally Posted by wildwoods

You don’t have to keep explaining yourself. You’ve done your homework. Leave it at that. Some folks like to argue online. Don’t stress too hard about that lol

Welcome to the forum! Sounds like you are busy folks!

Exactly....a few grumpy people here but water off a ducks back I say....welcome to the forum....there are a few good nut jobs here

You will be ok to butcher the animal up.

Hope it doesn’t come to that.

[Chief27]

After reading this forum, all I could think about is "what does emu taste like", now I'm googling emu recipes like a madman.
Welcome to the forum!

[DirtShooter]

Originally Posted by N3wbi3

This was a hypothetical "what if" question. Thanks for your concern. They have shelter and a heat source. And they are doing well thus far, showing no signs of distress and are surpringly hardy (as we had been informed) - and have a significant amount of down and 6" of feathers (far from a short haired dog). They are well cared for and all of our animals are quite pampered. However, this is our first winter with them and this question of "what if" has crossed my mind.

Nice looking animals, the look on their faces it's like they know they used to be dinosaurs...


I had no idea people ate Emu meat either.

[N3wbi3]

Originally Posted by Chief27

After reading this forum, all I could think about is "what does emu taste like", now I'm googling emu recipes like a madman.
Welcome to the forum!

There used to be a meat shop in Edmonton where you could buy it, but I haven't heard anything about it in years, I assume its closed nowadays. I've only had it once so far but it's a red meat that tastes much more like really lean beef than chicken. And people who can't tolerate other red meat (like those with alpha gal), can usually eat emu without any issues.

[KGB]

That’s pretty cool, I have never tried emu meat!
Anyways, I think you got enough info from the boys here.
I just wanted to add that if you end up with the dead frozen bird and don’t want to eat it yourself or offer it for human consumption - there are more than few dogs here who would appreciate the emu meat. My dog is one of them, lol! I have been given more than few kilograms of meat( freeezer burn etc) by the hunters on this forum and my pup loves it all!

[Dewey Cox]

I gotta get me some emus.
They're chickens that God made out of beef.