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  #31  
Old 03-22-2013, 08:43 PM
huntsfurfish huntsfurfish is offline
 
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Originally Posted by EZM View Post
Me too - my favorite reels. I checked the website and the variable speed retrieve really sounded like the greatest thing on the planet - but it looks like it is no longer available or not available in the small or mid sized models - maybe something on their super size salt water stuff perhaps.

I was ready to throw down some cash !!!! you had me at hello on this one ....
Last one I bought was a pro max 2speed 6BB That appears to be the last years that I can find.

The other 2 were older XLT's
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  #32  
Old 03-22-2013, 10:41 PM
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fishnfoo fishnfoo is offline
 
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Some really good information here. The more I look into gear ratios the more it seems to be a bit of a sham. Gear ratios themselves are really not that meaningful. Some reels that have a 6.4:1 ratio take in more than 30" of line per handle turn and others at ratios above 7:1 take in less than 30". I am starting to think it is better to choose a reel that can take in line at a high rate (27" - 32") because it gives you flexibility to vary your retrieve. It is true that at higher rates of retrieve you will produce less torque but when are you really going to need sustained high torque? Not fighting a big fish because you use the rod and drag system. Not bottom bouncing or trolling because you tend to get to the depth you want and leave it there. If you are throwing big baits for pike (plugs or spinners in shallow water, it would be an advantage to be able to run them rapidly. If you are using jerk baits, you only use the reel to take up slack. If you want to work a big heavy bait slowly and repeatedly, I can then see an advantage to increased torque, but I can't think of an application for this when fishing walleye or pike. Maybe there are salt water applications.

The annoying thing is that there are many articles out there saying that you need specific gear ratios for specific applications (cranking, pitching, spinnerbaits). It seems like the aim is to encourage the consumers to buy several reels. Buy reading customer reviews, customer Q&As and forums the consensus appears to be that high speed is the way to go. Interestingly, pro anglers all seem to be using the high speed reels and they often throw cranks or spinners all day long.

Looks like I am going to go with a high speed reel. That sure seems like a lot of smoke to get through to get to some real facts.
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  #33  
Old 03-22-2013, 11:09 PM
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EZM EZM is offline
 
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Originally Posted by fishnfoo View Post
Some really good information here. The more I look into gear ratios the more it seems to be a bit of a sham. Gear ratios themselves are really not that meaningful. Some reels that have a 6.4:1 ratio take in more than 30" of line per handle turn and others at ratios above 7:1 take in less than 30". I am starting to think it is better to choose a reel that can take in line at a high rate (27" - 32") because it gives you flexibility to vary your retrieve. It is true that at higher rates of retrieve you will produce less torque but when are you really going to need sustained high torque? Not fighting a big fish because you use the rod and drag system. Not bottom bouncing or trolling because you tend to get to the depth you want and leave it there. If you are throwing big baits for pike (plugs or spinners in shallow water, it would be an advantage to be able to run them rapidly. If you are using jerk baits, you only use the reel to take up slack. If you want to work a big heavy bait slowly and repeatedly, I can then see an advantage to increased torque, but I can't think of an application for this when fishing walleye or pike. Maybe there are salt water applications.

The annoying thing is that there are many articles out there saying that you need specific gear ratios for specific applications (cranking, pitching, spinnerbaits). It seems like the aim is to encourage the consumers to buy several reels. Buy reading customer reviews, customer Q&As and forums the consensus appears to be that high speed is the way to go. Interestingly, pro anglers all seem to be using the high speed reels and they often throw cranks or spinners all day long.

Looks like I am going to go with a high speed reel. That sure seems like a lot of smoke to get through to get to some real facts.
I totally agree ..... for fishing reels - there is very little appreciable torque gain or loss associated with (between a "standard" 5:1 to a "high speed" 7:1 gear ratio) instead, a more significant factor in determining how well a reel performs it's desired function is based on quality.

The more bearings, the less loss of of efficiency due to friction, the tighter the tolerances are on the gears, the more amplified rotation is beneficently applied etc....

Buy a tight, good quality reel and you will be happy with it. But a piece of crap, no matter how perfect the gear ratio is and you will have it bind up, slip (loose torque) etc....

The premise of bait casters, by design are, going to produce a little better torque than a spinning reel - simply by design (gears are inline versus intersected).

Although the basic principles of mechanical advantage and gear ratios will tell you otherwise ..... in a low tech application like a fishing reel ...... it's just not that big of a deal ........

Marketing genius these companies ..... now go out and buy one of each ..... they are also available in different colors too - the red ones are better for trout !!!!!
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  #34  
Old 03-23-2013, 07:30 AM
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Originally Posted by EZM View Post
I totally agree ..... for fishing reels - there is very little appreciable torque gain or loss associated with (between a "standard" 5:1 to a "high speed" 7:1 gear ratio) instead, a more significant factor in determining how well a reel performs it's desired function is based on quality.

The more bearings, the less loss of of efficiency due to friction, the tighter the tolerances are on the gears, the more amplified rotation is beneficently applied etc....

Buy a tight, good quality reel and you will be happy with it. But a piece of crap, no matter how perfect the gear ratio is and you will have it bind up, slip (loose torque) etc....

The premise of bait casters, by design are, going to produce a little better torque than a spinning reel - simply by design (gears are inline versus intersected).

Although the basic principles of mechanical advantage and gear ratios will tell you otherwise ..... in a low tech application like a fishing reel ...... it's just not that big of a deal ........

Marketing genius these companies ..... now go out and buy one of each ..... they are also available in different colors too - the red ones are better for trout !!!!!
Well stated. I never really understood why some companies market how their rods and reels look. Last year I was shopping for a spinning rod and the sales person was trying to play up the fact that the rod looked really cool. My response was that I would use a "my little pony" rod and reel if it was proven to be more effective at catching fish. Isn't that the real point?

Getting back to baitcasters, I think the original reels had lower gear ratios (like the round reels do) and they have evolved to be faster (due to customer demand). The manufacturers have kept all the gear ratios that were produced during this evolutionary process (sorry all you creationists), initially due to some customers resistance to change, and have now turned it into a marketing tactic. It really is quite brilliant. There are always new entrants into this market, they see all these gear ratio options, read the literature and PRESTO more sales! That was my initial reaction, "why would they make all these different reels for no reason?". That was the reason for the initial post. I was seeing if there was something I was missing.

If torque was really an issue on these reels, the manufacturers would only have to make handles of different lengths (that could easily be interchangeable) to create a wide range of torques. Two, three and four inch handles would make a much larger difference than the gear ratios that are available.

Million dollar marketing but morally corrupt.
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  #35  
Old 03-24-2013, 07:57 AM
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Now that I have the gear ratio sorted out, all that is left is to choose the reel. As stated before, I am looking at the PBS pro qualifier. It looks a lot like a Pfluger Patriarch and is made for BPS by the same manufacturer. Revo reels are also made by the same group. This looks like the same strategy that Costco uses when they get Eskimo to make a special version of the Mako ice auger, call it a Tempest and sell it for substantially less. I am not stuck on brand names. If I can get a higher quality reel at a lower price point, I am all over it. Anyone using a PBS PQ?
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  #36  
Old 03-24-2013, 08:23 AM
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I use a BPS Extreme (not the same model but similar). I'm three seasons in and only issue is it did "slip" when hauling in a 21# big girl @ Gull last year. Almost cost me the fish as she was digging hard for the bottom and it put slack in the line. It was like it went feeespool for a second or two. It's only done it the once and otherwise been a fantastic reel.
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  #37  
Old 03-24-2013, 08:33 AM
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Geezle Geezle is offline
 
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Originally Posted by fishnfoo View Post
Now that I have the gear ratio sorted out, all that is left is to choose the reel. As stated before, I am looking at the PBS pro qualifier. It looks a lot like a Pfluger Patriarch and is made for BPS by the same manufacturer. Revo reels are also made by the same group. This looks like the same strategy that Costco uses when they get Eskimo to make a special version of the Mako ice auger, call it a Tempest and sell it for substantially less. I am not stuck on brand names. If I can get a higher quality reel at a lower price point, I am all over it. Anyone using a PBS PQ?
It does look good, but it's hard to say for sure. Could be coming from the same manufacturer but built to a different price point with slightly lower quality components.

Personally I'd spend the extra $20 (but save on shipping?) and just pick up a Shimano Caenan locally.

But that's just me
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